Should F2P get skill capes?

[AlexRose]

So really the main problem with giving skillcapes to f2p--and the reason Jagex decided not to give skillcapes to f2p after serious consideration--is that it gives free players an incentive to train their skills to 99. That's a problem. Proponents of f2p skillcapes (myself included) view it as a reward to f2p players with 99 skills--they did the work, they deserve the reward, yes? That's totally true, totally valid, and it's an excellent case for making skillcapes more available, so long as balance issues were ironed out (you shouldn't get an advantage over other free players without a 99 because of your +9 def +4 pray cape).

 

Read the Bold jrhairy, it essentially answers all your questions.

 

Anyway, I personally disagree with removing the stats, as I believe people who have put more effort into the game should have an advantage over people who did not. But that's an entirely different matter.

 

 

 

But as good as it would be for those free players who have level 99 whatever already, or those ex-members who want to wear their capes again, it would cause problems. Players without 99 skills would see the capes, get jealous, and decide to get 99 for themselves. F2P doesn't have high-level content. With the exception of melee and ranged combat, there's no point to getting level 99 in f2p unless you really like the skill. You won't get any benefit from it and you'll still train exactly the same way you would at lower levels. With skillcapes in f2p, people would feel like they have to get one in order to be cool (which would be true, because as we all know, skillcapes are hella awesome) and they would start getting 99 in skills they don't enjoy, just to get the cape.

 

That means less fun for the players, pretty much. It also means they won't subscribe, which is bad because a. Jagex gets less money (which isn't a drawback if it legitimately improves the game, but is a reasonable consideration for small changes that are not necessarily important) and b. this would be the sort of person who would enjoy the members' game a lot better anyway, and they'd be missing out. And if they do subscribe, they'll regret wasting time in f2p getting 99 fishing at Barbarian Village when they could have done it at rocktails and gotten it just as fast with millions of gp in profit.

 

I see where your getting at, but perhaps this gaint void of updates, combined with faster training methods, may convince a few to purchase members,for the exact same reasons you listed? Possibly more so than the people who would become discouraged and leave Runescape sooner? And doesn't the "Jealousy" effect apply to member's worlds, albeit with less extreme consequences due to faster training methods? If we assume that the large majority of F2pers who would make an effort for a 99 are unable to purchase members, however, then it is quite possible you could be exactly correct.

[Troacctid]

I personally disagree with removing the stats, as I believe people who have put more effort into the game should have an advantage over people who did not. But that's an entirely different matter.

You're right that it's good for effort to be rewarded, but superior equipment is a poor choice of reward because of balance issues. For example, a member with skillcapes in Thieving and Cooking who goes into free worlds to PK would have an unfair advantage in an activity totally unrelated to either skill. (The discrepancy is less relevant in members because we have other capes in between, like the obsidian and legends capes.) It's more appropriate to offer xp bonuses, money, or tradable rewards for extremely high levels.

 

And doesn't the "Jealousy" effect apply to member's worlds, albeit with less extreme consequences due to faster training methods?

Yes. As you said, less extreme consequences because of faster training methods and/or content you can access at high levels to make the leveling worthwhile.

[langer]

Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.

 

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

[kdog2fast]

Sure f2p deserves skill capes... should they get them? No. Not until members get something much better at least :twisted:

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Sure f2p deserves skill capes... should they get them? No. Not until members get something much better at least :twisted:

They already have better capes. And if F2P got these capes, there is a good chance they would be toned down. Therefore, you would still have something much better.

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

Read the Bold jrhairy, it essentially answers all your questions.

 

Anyway, I personally disagree with removing the stats, as I believe people who have put more effort into the game should have an advantage over people who did not. But that's an entirely different matter.

So your case now rests with "what he said", without even trying to answer my points. Yup very convincing.

 

As far as stats go I played along with your hypothetical situation. In the end its up to Jagex, you know that company that owns runescape, what they do with it. If they want to lower all stats they're entitled to do so without yours or anyone elses approval. Look at the reality of things instead of looking at the idealist point of view because in the end thats what matters.

 

Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.

 

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

 

Well met. Unfortunately this idealist point of view is often spouted by those who've never worked yet or have ever done, which often results in the 'Jagex got it wrong again' routine without thinking about why things are done. Maybe Jagex pay their staff with fresh air.

[perfetc]

Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

 

In a hypothetical world were F2P did have skill capes, how many do you think will say "I don't want to be a member cos I already have what I would have become a member for"?

 

I'd say less than 1,000 but to make it easier lets say exactly 1,000 people don't become a member cos they have the cape, thats only £3,500 there missing out on ... they won't even notice that.

[Erewhon2]

Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

 

In a hypothetical world were F2P did have skill capes, how many do you think will say "I don't want to be a member cos I already have what I would have become a member for"?

 

I'd say less than 1,000 but to make it easier lets say exactly 1,000 people don't become a member cos they have the cape, thats only £3,500 there missing out on ... they won't even notice that.

That is an irrelevant point in the final analysis, after all. The F2P is exactly that, its a free game, those who use it (including myself at times) should be grateful for what they get. No one 'deserves' anything more than what they have, as what is offered is at no financial cost to gamers, nicely quoted here by Langer and Jrhairychest;

 

Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.

 

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

Completely ridiculous to make demands on a 'free sample' from a business out to make profit from memberships. The fact that Jagex have not made F2P time limited or limited the the levels in the skills you can do is a huge concession! Where is the gratitude for that?

[Guest jrhairychest]

In a hypothetical world were F2P did have skill capes, how many do you think will say "I don't want to be a member cos I already have what I would have become a member for"?

 

I'd say less than 1,000 but to make it easier lets say exactly 1,000 people don't become a member cos they have the cape, thats only £3,500 there missing out on ... they won't even notice that.

 

If what you're saying is true, skillcapes would have been given out already. Remember its an enticement to go to members and 99 things, not just 99 in a free world so there's potential players in F2P who may want to join P2P for the cape as an additional members benefit.

 

Completely ridiculous to make demands on a 'free sample' from a business out to make profit from memberships. The fact that Jagex have not made F2P time limited or limited the the levels in the skills you can do is a huge concession! Where is the gratitude for that?

Agreed. I think this is lost on a few people in this post who think its their god given right to demand things while playing for free. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth :huh:

[Troacctid]

If what you're saying is true, skillcapes would have been given out already.

You can't say that. Think about it...How do you know, for example, they aren't already slated to be released in f2p, and the update is currently being tested for bugs? Just sayin'.

[Guest jrhairychest]

If what you're saying is true, skillcapes would have been given out already.

You can't say that. Think about it...How do you know, for example, they aren't already slated to be released in f2p, and the update is currently being tested for bugs? Just sayin'.

 

I did say it. Do you have evidence to support that this is in the pipeline? Unless you have, Jagex announces something or its done as a previously undisclosed update this is the best we have. They haven't released them for F2P since their launch so we can only assume they won't. By all means disprove it.

 

BTW there seems to be a new thread relating the new magics to F2P. Its a member posting about it this time :-?. Without trawling through a number of posts I'm getting the picture that F2P want quite a lot?

[Alg]

 

BTW there seems to be a new thread relating the new magics to F2P. Its a member posting about it this time :-?. Without trawling through a number of posts I'm getting the picture that F2P want quite a lot?

Which seems to happen regardless of whether or not they get updates like this, as you can see. So saying that if they get it they'll just want more won't work because it would happen regardless. Plus, it's up to Jagex whether or not to actually give more.

[ghost4sale1]

 

BTW there seems to be a new thread relating the new magics to F2P. Its a member posting about it this time :-?. Without trawling through a number of posts I'm getting the picture that F2P want quite a lot?

 

Haha thanks :)

 

The point I was trying to bring up is that the f2p combat triangle should be balanced.

 

I don't think that f2p should get skill capes, but they should be equipable in f2p.

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/251136-surge-spells-what-about-f2p/

[Sanitys_Requiem]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

[ghost4sale1]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money.

 

Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p).

[Sanitys_Requiem]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money.

 

Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p).

 

 

The skill capes incentive doesn't generate masses amount of revenue. The incentives are, new skills, new training methods, an far more expansive world, new armor, and new weapons, that's why more than half of the people that bought membership before the capes, got it in the first place. They would make money with or without the capes. They made money before the release, and they would if they got rid of them now. Jagex doesn't care how much time you spend playing the game, just as long as you don't die and they lose their $5-7, or whatever the price is. They want you to play, and they want you to pay. Jagex is a corporation, not a charity who is in the business of healthy gaming.

[langer]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money.

 

Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p).

 

 

The skill capes incentive doesn't generate masses amount of revenue. The incentives are, new skills, new training methods, an far more expansive world, new armor, and new weapons, that's why more than half of the people that bought membership before the capes, got it in the first place. They would make money with or without the capes. They made money before the release, and they would if they got rid of them now. Jagex doesn't care how much time you spend playing the game, just as long as you don't die and they lose their $5-7, or whatever the price is. They want you to play, and they want you to pay. Jagex is a corporation, not a charity who is in the business of healthy gaming.

 

Great analysis, though you seem to not take into account what was said by some posters.

The point being made by poster such as Jr and I is that giving high end rewards in F2P encourages F2Pers to stick to the free game rather than encouraging them to get membership. Skill capes are not and will never be the biggest incentive to get membership but it is one and all incentives add up.

[Alg]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money.

 

Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p).

 

 

The skill capes incentive doesn't generate masses amount of revenue. The incentives are, new skills, new training methods, an far more expansive world, new armor, and new weapons, that's why more than half of the people that bought membership before the capes, got it in the first place. They would make money with or without the capes. They made money before the release, and they would if they got rid of them now. Jagex doesn't care how much time you spend playing the game, just as long as you don't die and they lose their $5-7, or whatever the price is. They want you to play, and they want you to pay. Jagex is a corporation, not a charity who is in the business of healthy gaming.

 

Great analysis, though you seem to not take into account what was said by some posters.

The point being made by poster such as Jr and I is that giving high end rewards in F2P encourages F2Pers to stick to the free game rather than encouraging them to get membership. Skill capes are not and will never be the biggest incentive to get membership but it is one and all incentives add up.

However, a far larger incentive would be for the easier training (Look at Prayer in F2P) and more skills to max (15 < 24). Even if you max all the free ones you still have to pay for the other 10 (counting Quest too). And chances are the players that make it that far and still won't pay are the ones that wouldn't have anyway.

[GeoffBraceRS]

Do they deserve them? Yes

Do i think they should get them? No

[langer]

Yes, they should, they work just as hard if not harder than members to get to level 99 in a given skill. They deserve it.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money.

 

Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p).

 

 

The skill capes incentive doesn't generate masses amount of revenue. The incentives are, new skills, new training methods, an far more expansive world, new armor, and new weapons, that's why more than half of the people that bought membership before the capes, got it in the first place. They would make money with or without the capes. They made money before the release, and they would if they got rid of them now. Jagex doesn't care how much time you spend playing the game, just as long as you don't die and they lose their $5-7, or whatever the price is. They want you to play, and they want you to pay. Jagex is a corporation, not a charity who is in the business of healthy gaming.

 

Great analysis, though you seem to not take into account what was said by some posters.

The point being made by poster such as Jr and I is that giving high end rewards in F2P encourages F2Pers to stick to the free game rather than encouraging them to get membership. Skill capes are not and will never be the biggest incentive to get membership but it is one and all incentives add up.

However, a far larger incentive would be for the easier training (Look at Prayer in F2P) and more skills to max (15 < 24). Even if you max all the free ones you still have to pay for the other 10 (counting Quest too). And chances are the players that make it that far and still won't pay are the ones that wouldn't have anyway.

 

Exactly! Why should Jagex reward those players that never intend to support the game properly?

[Guest jrhairychest]

Exactly! Why should Jagex reward those players that never intend to support the game properly?

 

This is why I'm against this 'deserving' argument. What exactly do they contribute to deserve it? Staying in F2P is not deserving its simply playing a game thats free. They should be posting their gratitude, not moaning.

 

Any mature player would say "Yes I'm F2P, I enjoy it and I'm glad I have a game that never ends that I don't have to pay for". Instead I see the immature approach of wanting something for nothing as if its owed to them. I'd like to see the same people play the trial version of WOW, then after it has expired complain they should get more because they deserve it. They'd just get a two fingerd salute with a note saying 'You want, you pay!'.

 

However, a far larger incentive would be for the easier training (Look at Prayer in F2P) and more skills to max (15 < 24). Even if you max all the free ones you still have to pay for the other 10 (counting Quest too). And chances are the players that make it that far and still won't pay are the ones that wouldn't have anyway.

 

Nice idea. I think that perhaps Jagex gave them too much initially, and I think you're being too kind in pacifying them on it. Alex's earlier comments about limiting the stats, although said in jest, might have actually been a good idea for them to level to say 50 for all the F2P stats. Stopping them there might have actually prompted more to go for members to continue levelling. Those who don't can stay there but not level. I wouldn't see how anyone could argue because if they aren't going to go to membs after levelling all stats to 50 then they'll stay in F2P and contribute nothing anyway, as what you've said. I'd say be grateful to be able to level to 99 instead of doing the Oliver Twist act and asking for more. <_<

[Alg]

The way I would suggest to release them would be weakened versions, though. Pretty much just capes that look pretty that you can show off with, and get the skillcape emote from. Then you still would have to pay for the better version.

Good idea for a compromise?

[Youmu]

The way I would suggest to release them would be weakened versions, though. Pretty much just capes that look pretty that you can show off with, and get the skillcape emote from. Then you still would have to pay for the better version.

Good idea for a compromise?

Weakened versions... yeah, good idea. I'd say +5 in everything except prayer, which is +2.

 

About the whole debate itself, I really don't get why people want skill capes that much. They're just status symbols, and the only thing that you'll get from them is people asking for you to show off your emote, and like what, 3 people saying "nice skillcape"?

 

Besides, we already got Quick Chat to show off our skills. I'm pretty much against the idea of skill capes in F2P because of this very reason, though I don't care if F2P actually gets them.

 

What I do support, though, is that you can take off and wear skillcapes in F2P worlds. That way, former members can choose what cape to wear, but they still must acquire membership to get the skillcape. Crimsoncrow's suggestion supports this very idea.

 

(And yes, I DID change my views after thinking about this for a while.)

[Guest jrhairychest]

The way I would suggest to release them would be weakened versions, though. Pretty much just capes that look pretty that you can show off with, and get the skillcape emote from. Then you still would have to pay for the better version.

Good idea for a compromise?

 

I say why? Again it's an additional incentive for those to stay in F2P.

[Alg]

The way I would suggest to release them would be weakened versions, though. Pretty much just capes that look pretty that you can show off with, and get the skillcape emote from. Then you still would have to pay for the better version.

Good idea for a compromise?

 

I say why? Again it's an additional incentive for those to stay in F2P.

But even more an incentive to join P2P, because the member version would be better in almost every way. I'm imagining just a plain cape with the skill logo on it, not the kind that member already have.