Should F2P get skill capes?

[Guest jrhairychest]

I somehow fail to see how skillcapes are a grand cash incentive for membership. If a F2per has decided to put in the time and effort neccesary for a level 99, I think that person has already made the decision whether to become a member or not. If anything, a skillcape would actually be an incentive to become a member, as membership would greatly reduce the difficulty of obtaining a 99.

 

Furthermore, skillcapes do not dramatically alter the course of the average F2per's playstyle. Sure, it may encourage a detrimined few to train their skills to 99, but as a whole skillcapes contribute no gameplay altering additions to the F2p universe. The way F2p train their skills to 99s remain the same, the vast, vast majority of a F2per's gameplay is unaltered.

They arent a cash incentive for membership, but they're a apart of it. Just like other members benefits. Jagex want the business so they'll keep the best stuff for those who want to pay for it, just like anything else in life. I also disagree about the F2Pers lifestyle. After 5 months of initially being F2P then joining, I thought it was Christmas.

 

In addition, if you just get membership for a skillcape... that's just sad. :mellow:

 

The reason why I don't go P2P is because I'm happy with the current F2P, simplicity. P2P is way too overly complicated for me to have a decent time there. :wacko:

 

And, for all you stubborn P2Pers, be more creative and not come up with the same lame excuse every time.

 

Also, keep in mind that if skillcapes are given to F2P, it benefits P2P, because you'll be able to take off/wear your skillcape in F2P worlds. Gosh, think before you guys spout out this "f2p dont pay zomgomg@@@" crap. <_<

 

If you're happy with F2P then the skillcape won't matter. I don't see whats a lame excuse about this. If you want more then pay for it, otherwise stop the complaining and be grateful you have a free game to play for the life of the game instead of some sort of trial basis. Even if you did get skillcapes the complaining wouldn't stop there. You'd just want this, that or the other simply because you feel you deserve them.

[AlexRose]

I somehow fail to see how skillcapes are a grand cash incentive for membership. If a F2per has decided to put in the time and effort neccesary for a level 99, I think that person has already made the decision whether to become a member or not. If anything, a skillcape would actually be an incentive to become a member, as membership would greatly reduce the difficulty of obtaining a 99.

 

Furthermore, skillcapes do not dramatically alter the course of the average F2per's playstyle. Sure, it may encourage a detrimined few to train their skills to 99, but as a whole skillcapes contribute no gameplay altering additions to the F2p universe. The way F2p train their skills to 99s remain the same; the vast, vast majority of a F2per's gameplay is unaltered.

They arent a cash incentive for membership, but they're a apart of it. Just like other members benefits. Jagex want the business so they'll keep the best stuff for those who want to pay for it, just like anything else in life. I also disagree about the F2Pers lifestyle. After 5 months of initially being F2P then joining, I thought it was Christmas.

 

But I just explained how skill capes are both a non-incentive for P2p and that the addition of skillcapes to f2p could possibly attract more detrimined F2pers to members. You've essentially rephrased the very argument I adressed my post to.

 

I also did not comment on the current status of the F2p lifestyle. I merely was adressing that the addition of skillcapes would not signicicantly alter the general playstyle of a F2per.

 

 

 

 

 

If you're happy with F2P then the skillcape won't matter. I don't see whats a lame excuse about this. If you want more then pay for it, otherwise stop the complaining and be grateful you have a free game to play for the life of the game instead of some sort of trial basis. Even if you did get skillcapes the complaining wouldn't stop there. You'd just want this, that or the other simply because you feel you deserve them.

 

Please don't stereotype an entire class of players. If you believe that F2p doesn't deserve a minor addition that merely functions as a goal, I'll accept that, even if I think your reasons are both elitist and phobic. But at least attempt to treat F2p fairly, instead of supportng your arguments on the heavily sterotyped impression of F2p and great exaggerations of F2p desire for updates.

 

As I explained in a prior post, direct payments are not the only way to support a company; F2p deserves and has a representation because of the devotion and effort they have placed into Jagex's game. This particually applies to F2pers devoted enough to obtain a level 99. Jagex has adknowledged this with opening the forums to higher leveled F2pers, and has directly said that they consider F2p more than a demo verion of the paid game.

[Youmu]

If you're happy with F2P then the skillcape won't matter. I don't see whats a lame excuse about this. If you want more then pay for it, otherwise stop the complaining and be grateful you have a free game to play for the life of the game instead of some sort of trial basis. Even if you did get skillcapes the complaining wouldn't stop there. You'd just want this, that or the other simply because you feel you deserve them.

If you stereotype F2Pers as whiners asking more stuff, I can stereotype P2Pers as simple-minded, stubborn people who are too lame to find a new explanation.

 

I just mentioned the point of why it would benefit P2P earlier, and you failed to listen. This proves you are one of those simple-minded, stubborn P2Pers.

 

By the way, I do not try to ask for more stuff. This basically makes your "F2P = Whiner" logic invalid.

[langer]

@ Sonic

Being able to wear a skillcapes on F2P for a member could not be considered a benefit. You'll have to find more convincing arguments to persuade me that skillcapes being F2P will benefit members.

One slight benefit I can see is that fishing lobster and tuna/swordies will become more profitable for members as prices of these raw fish reaching their cap, at least upon a fictionnal release.

 

@ AxelRose

 

You say that you have proven that skillcapes are a non-incentives to get members though you specifically wrote that sentence :

 

If anything, a skillcape would actually be an incentive to become a member, as membership would greatly reduce the difficulty of obtaining a 99.

 

That's exactly why it is an incentive, maybe not the main reason, but incentives do add up.

 

I personnaly don't think Jagex wants to have their F2Pers work on an end game goal on F2P, they make their cash via P2P and that would contradict their business strategy.

[Youmu]

@ Sonic

Being able to wear a skillcapes on F2P for a member could not be considered a benefit. You'll have to find more convincing arguments to persuade me that skillcapes being F2P will benefit members.

One slight benefit I can see is that fishing lobster and tuna/swordies will become more profitable for members as prices of these raw fish reaching their cap, at least upon a fictionnal release.

Actually, it helps P2Pers on F2P worlds in a number of ways.

 

-Re-obtainable back in F2P if lost, so PvP can still be done there.

-Can be taken off and worn back on again, unlike right now, where you take off and you can't wear it back.

-Can change capes at any time.

-Can change default clothing.

-Defence bonuses.

-Easier assisting, World 16 Airs for example.

-Basically a big help for former members that cannot go back to P2P for some reason.

 

They're not very major, but still, they help for those that like to show off their skillcapes and stuff.

[langer]

What kind of player wears a P2P item while pking in F2P???

Can you explain how it makes assisting easier?

Why would a P2Per want added defence bonus in F2P except for F2P PVP? No sane P2Per will log in a F2P world to get crappy xp rates...

 

The benefits you are stating are mostly comestic... I've been wearing the same default clothing for the last 5 years... this is not a benefit for me as well as many players.

 

ALl P2P items (if I'm not mistaken) behave in the same way. They give no bonus and are non-equipable once taken out.

[junkiejeff]

My argument is that Runescape is just a game and you don't deserve anything, because it's a game.

So nobody really deserves anything because the game is just like Jagex wants it to be.

You might WANT skill capes for F2P, but that's something completely different.

 

 

How are you aware of what Jagex wants of their game? If the game was exactly how Jagex wanted it to be, the why are we continously recieving updates? And yes, this entire debate is based off opinion, so are all other agruments; if they were fact, then what is there to debate? But we can still support our opinions, and if your supporting facts/ideas are strong enough, then your opinion is a completely a valid argument. You're essentially arguing that all opinions, editorials, and political thought are baseless, which is false.

 

And arguments can too be based on many things. And the only argument I have seen is that F2P works hard enough.

That's simply not an argument because working hard on Runescape does not entitle you to anything, except for what Jagex gives you. Paying for the game gives everything the game has to offer.

So please disprove this statement: working hard on Runescape does not entitle you to anything

[unkn0wnwarrior]

No sane P2Per will log in a F2P world to get crappy xp rates...

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. I have had many P2P friends join me in F2P for a training session.

[AlexRose]

 

@ AxelRose

 

You say that you have proven that skillcapes are a non-incentives to get members though you specifically wrote that sentence :

 

 

 

If anything, a skillcape would actually be an incentive to become a member, as membership would greatly reduce the difficulty of obtaining a 99.

 

 

That's exactly why it is an incentive, maybe not the main reason, but incentives do add up.

 

First of all, it's Alex Rose.

 

Secondly, you have taken my quote far out of context. As implied by the sentence prior to that one, I meant that a skillcape becoming a F2p item would actually become an incentive to purchase members, as the task of obtaining a 99 would become far less tedious and time-consuming. It's a small incentive, certainly, but it certainly counter-balances the loss of exclusive member items.

 

 

 

So please disprove this statement: working hard on Runescape does not entitle you to anything

 

When I have trained my attack level from level 30 to level 40, my accuracy and my damage should remain the same. When I raise 30 million cash and spend it on a weapon, I should not have an advantage over the person who spent 100k on a dragon scimitar. When I train my Fishing level to 99, I should not be able to show my dedication and time I have spent playing, and supporting, this game.

 

Fair enough.

[Erewhon2]

I have said it before on this thread and I will say it again. There is no justification for skill capes on F2P, you can call me elitist...yes I am, I pay for my membership and want to keep all the benefits and special things that go with that, thats the whole point of becoming a member! No one I know (with any kind of sanity) would take P2P gear into F2P pking, so that negates that point, as defined by Langer.

 

And AlexRose, you have spent all this time enjoying the game of RS for free....what's the issue...the point is made, how many hours have you played RS enjoyably without having to pay a penny? You haven't even needed to spend out on a box set. Ultimately Jagex likes to be seen supporting its F2P players, but in the end it doesn't matter, as soon as you leave there are others joining. The same with membership, it is a business after all. Your weapons and armour are fine against other F2P, why are you comparing them with members weapons? If you ever get the opportunity to fight a D Scimmy, it will be because you are a member and have one (or something better) of your own.

[Guest jrhairychest]

But I just explained how skill capes are both a non-incentive for P2p and that the addition of skillcapes to f2p could possibly attract more detrimined F2pers to members. You've essentially rephrased the very argument I adressed my post to.

 

I also did not comment on the current status of the F2p lifestyle. I merely was adressing that the addition of skillcapes would not signicicantly alter the general playstyle of a F2per.

I disagree. Skillcapes are part of the overall attraction for members along with other things we pay for. Thats why its pointless giving things like that to your free players in the first place. You want to give them an incentive to joining so that's one of them. Your logic states we should give things like skillcapes to F2P, which in the end is more of an incentive not to join.

 

Please don't stereotype an entire class of players. If you believe that F2p doesn't deserve a minor addition that merely functions as a goal, I'll accept that, even if I think your reasons are both elitist and phobic. But at least attempt to treat F2p fairly, instead of supportng your arguments on the heavily sterotyped impression of F2p and great exaggerations of F2p desire for updates.

 

As I explained in a prior post, direct payments are not the only way to support a company; F2p deserves and has a representation because of the devotion and effort they have placed into Jagex's game. This particually applies to F2pers devoted enough to obtain a level 99. Jagex has adknowledged this with opening the forums to higher leveled F2pers, and has directly said that they consider F2p more than a demo verion of the paid game.

 

Enough with the stereotyping bull and the elitist, phobic and general PC crap. I havent got anything against F2P. I just see a few players on a forum who want more than their given lot and that Jagex owes them something but they pay nothing. As far as this 'devotion' goes, F2Pers are lucky to have it in the first place considering most other games are on a trial basis for those who don't want to pay. You want it, you pay for it. If Jagex thought F2P deserved skillcapes they'd have had them a long time ago. They haven't so enough said really. That should answer Sonics post too, and yes you are a whinger. If you don't like it either get members, quit or be happy with what you have.

[AlexRose]

I disagree. Skillcapes are part of the overall attraction for members along with other things we pay for. Thats why its pointless giving things like that to your free players in the first place. You want to give them an incentive to joining so that's one of them. Your logic states we should give things like skillcapes to F2P, which in the end is more of an incentive not to join.

 

Yes, Skillcapes are presently an attraction to members, I'm not denying that. But the point I'm trying to make is that skillcapes would be more of an attraction to members in F2p than leaving it remaining in members. Again, you have restated the argument that I have refuted with my post without contributing a counter to my argument.

 

 

Please don't stereotype an entire class of players. If you believe that F2p doesn't deserve a minor addition that merely functions as a goal, I'll accept that, even if I think your reasons are both elitist and phobic. But at least attempt to treat F2p fairly, instead of supportng your arguments on the heavily sterotyped impression of F2p and great exaggerations of F2p desire for updates.

 

As I explained in a prior post, direct payments are not the only way to support a company; F2p deserves and has a representation because of the devotion and effort they have placed into Jagex's game. This particually applies to F2pers devoted enough to obtain a level 99. Jagex has adknowledged this with opening the forums to higher leveled F2pers, and has directly said that they consider F2p more than a demo verion of the paid game.

 

Enough with the stereotyping bull and the elitist, phobic and general PC crap. I havent got anything against F2P. I just see a few players on a forum who want more than their given lot and that Jagex owes them something but they pay nothing. As far as this 'devotion' goes, F2Pers are lucky to have it in the first place considering most other games are on a trial basis for those who don't want to pay. You want it, you pay for it. If Jagex thought F2P deserved skillcapes they'd have had them a long time ago. They haven't so enough said really. That should answer Sonics post too, and yes you are a whinger. If you don't like it either get members, quit or be happy with what you have.

 

Your assumption that I am a whiner is rather strange, considering that I am a full paying member to Runescape and would possess no 99s to even show off the capes in F2p.

 

To Bold: I could apply the same logic to pre-construction, or any update, really. If your logic was true, I could argue back in 2006 that Summoning would never be released, because surely if Jagex wanted to include Summoning, they would have certainly at least informed us of plans. Besides, whether or not Jagex approves the idea is completely irrevelant to whether the idea is valid.

 

Before I respond to the F2p part, I would like you to answer this question: Assuming there would be no consequences to the member's playstyle (all materials F2p introduced to the game would be substituted in some other fashion), would you support the removal of F2p?

 

 

 

And AlexRose, you have spent all this time enjoying the game of RS for free....what's the issue...the point is made, how many hours have you played RS enjoyably without having to pay a penny? You haven't even needed to spend out on a box set. Ultimately Jagex likes to be seen supporting its F2P players, but in the end it doesn't matter, as soon as you leave there are others joining. The same with membership, it is a business after all. Your weapons and armour are fine against other F2P, why are you comparing them with members weapons? If you ever get the opportunity to fight a D Scimmy, it will be because you are a member and have one (or something better) of your own.

 

As much as I enjoyed F2p, it was still not an absolutely perfect game; and judging from the Rants forum, nor is members. I'm not demanding that skillcapes become F2p, just as I am not whining about the issue. I merely believe it is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, that has far more postive effects than negative, that I would like to see come into fruitation. That is my motive.

 

Please explain to me how P2p is exempt from your logic in Bold.

 

The problem with your Dragon Scimitar anology is that Skill Capes do not ultimately affect the general play of a f2per; the methods used to obtain the 99 remain the same. Dragon Scimitars, conversely, would dramatically affect F2p gaming, for fairly obvious reasons.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Yes, Skillcapes are presently an attraction to members, I'm not denying that. But the point I'm trying to make is that skillcapes would be more of an attraction to members in F2p than leaving it remaining in members. Again, you have restated the argument that I have refuted with my post without contributing a counter to my argument.

Explain how you mean by more of an attraction if you give it to them in the first place? You haven't refuted anything because if you were correct, Jagex would have taken your stance on this issue and gave F2P capes. So you're incorrect.

 

Your assumption that I am a whiner is rather strange, considering that I am a full paying member to Runescape and would possess no 99s to even show off the capes in F2p.

 

To Bold: I could apply the same logic to pre-construction, or any update, really. If your logic was true, I could argue back in 2006 that Summoning would never be released, because surely if Jagex wanted to include Summoning, they would have certainly at least informed us of plans. Besides, whether or not Jagex approves the idea is completely irrevelant to whether the idea is valid.

 

Before I respond to the F2p part, I would like you to answer this question: Assuming there would be no consequences to the member's playstyle (all materials F2p introduced to the game would be substituted in some other fashion), would you support the removal of F2p?

 

My whinging remarks were directed at Sonic and others who want something for nothing. As far as your summoning comparison goes, summoning didn't even exist, whereas skillcapes already do. When Jagex bring in game things out they either bring it for both or for members only. How many times have they gone back on this? So my logic is spot on but thanks for the concern. You haven't dealt with my point, which was if you start giving things like this to F2P where does it stop? Aren't they lucky enough to have what they have. The game is cheap enough that most people could afford membership if they wanted to so if they decide not to pay, then thats their choice.

 

As far as your question of F2P goes the answer would be no. I'm all for having an F2P as long as the line is drawn as to what is given to it. Otherwise there won't be just players like myself who begin to question why we pay our fees. Again I point to the fact that if you were so correct, it would have been done by now. It hasn't and unless the day comes when they do, you won't be.

[AlexRose]

Yes, Skillcapes are presently an attraction to members, I'm not denying that. But the point I'm trying to make is that skillcapes would be more of an attraction to members in F2p than leaving it remaining in members. Again, you have restated the argument that I have refuted with my post without contributing a counter to my argument.

 

Explain how you mean by more of an attraction if you give it to them in the first place? You haven't refuted anything because if you were correct, Jagex would have taken your stance on this issue and gave F2P capes. So you're incorrect.

 

My reasoning was that the introduction of skill capes would encourage detrimined F2pers to train skills. As they are most likely aware, it is far, far easier to obtain a level 99 with membership than without. Thus, the promise of an easier 99 would be an incentive to become a member, most likely far more of an incentive than if the capes remained in members worlds.

 

And Jagex, of course, has always made educated and well-balanced decisions on updates, and that all content that is not currently in the game should never be introduced.

 

My whinging remarks were directed at Sonic and others who want something for nothing.

 

Which, according to your definition, would include me as well. Although looking back on your post, I can see your phrasing did not necessarily imply I was part of the group.

 

As far as your summoning comparison goes, summoning didn't even exist, whereas skillcapes already do. When Jagex bring in game things out they either bring it for both or for members only. How many times have they gone back on this? So my logic is spot on but thanks for the concern.

 

But the tangible idea of Summoning was still present, just like the tangible idea of skillcapes becoming f2p is present in this debate. So let's assume Jagex decided to introduce skill capes to F2p as well as members with the original update; would you support the update then, because Jagex implemented the idea from the initial update?

 

 

 

You haven't dealt with my point, which was if you start giving things like this to F2P where does it stop? Aren't they lucky enough to have what they have. The game is cheap enough that most people could afford membership if they wanted to so if they decide not to pay, then thats their choice.

 

As far as your question of F2P goes the answer would be no. I'm all for having an F2P as long as the line is drawn as to what is given to it. Otherwise there won't be just players like myself who begin to question why we pay our fees. Again I point to the fact that if you were so correct, it would have been done by now. It hasn't and unless the day comes when they do, you won't be.

 

Actually, I agree with you. In fact, I think this should be taken a step further. Surely F2p doesn't actually deserve Magic; they get what the pay for, after all. So I think we should remove magic from F2p; if they want the benefits of teleports and binds, they should pay. If they're not happy, they can just leave. You know, I really don't even see the point of letting F2p off Tutorial Island. They have a fantastic introduction to the game there, so why should we even bother providing them with servers? If they're not happy with it, they can just go on and play a different game!

 

The point of that stream of sarcasm was to illustrate the fault in your logic regarding the "where does it stop" argument. Your argument, while at a certain point of generosity to F2p will hold merit, is flawed because it relies on an extreme situation to be valid in this case. I'm certain you do not feel the same way about F2p as the imaginary poster in the above paragraph does, but you also cannot assume the hypothetical extreme reaction from the inverse of above (the introduction of more content for F2p)! You are not fairly assessing F2p's reaction to updates. And yes, there is a definite cutoff to the introduction of F2p material, I accept that. But the introduction of skillcapes would not remotely breach that cutoff.

[Guest jrhairychest]

 

My reasoning was that the introduction of skill capes would encourage detrimined F2pers to train skills. As they are most likely aware, it is far, far easier to obtain a level 99 with membership than without. Thus, the promise of an easier 99 would be an incentive to become a member, most likely far more of an incentive than if the capes remained in members worlds.

 

And Jagex, of course, has always made educated and well-balanced decisions on updates, and that all content that is not currently in the game should never be introduced.

 

A simpler solution - Pay the cash, become a member, get a skillcape. Whats wrong with that? It also still stands that Jagex has not introduced skill capes to F2P.

 

 

 

Which, according to your definition, would include me as well. Although looking back on your post, I can see your phrasing did not necessarily imply I was part of the group.

Good we agree.

 

 

But the tangible idea of Summoning was still present, just like the tangible idea of skillcapes becoming f2p is present in this debate. So let's assume Jagex decided to introduce skill capes to F2p as well as members with the original update; would you support the update then, because Jagex implemented the idea from the initial update?

The ideas haven't been put into practice saying its tangible is pointless because it didn't happen. If Jagex release things for both F2P and P2P it happens together. With both your items it didn't.

 

If Jagex had decided to release both items together I'd have had no issues with it. My problem is when you release something for P2P then decide to give it to F2P because of the whinging, what is next? The line must be drawn.

 

Actually, I agree with you. In fact, I think this should be taken a step further. Surely F2p doesn't actually deserve Magic; they get what the pay for, after all. So I think we should remove magic from F2p; if they want the benefits of teleports and binds, they should pay. If they're not happy, they can just leave. You know, I really don't even see the point of letting F2p off Tutorial Island. They have a fantastic introduction to the game there, so why should we even bother providing them with servers? If they're not happy with it, they can just go on and play a different game!

 

The point of that stream of sarcasm was to illustrate the fault in your logic regarding the "where does it stop" argument. Your argument, while at a certain point of generosity to F2p will hold merit, is flawed because it relies on an extreme situation to be valid in this case. I'm certain you do not feel the same way about F2p as the imaginary poster in the above paragraph does, but you also cannot assume the hypothetical extreme reaction from the inverse of above (the introduction of more content for F2p)! You are not fairly assessing F2p's reaction to updates. And yes, there is a definite cutoff to the introduction of F2P material, I accept that. But the introduction of skillcapes would not remotely breach that cutoff.

 

There is no fault in my logic in that statement. You're talking here about taking away something they already have so it was a pointless piece of sarcasm. The 'where does it stop' argument is completely valid. If they make concessions on skillcapes then there will be posts like this one demanding something else, then something else and so on. The more you do for players the more they want, such is life. I'm the type of person who appreciates where things come from. I could take the stance of whinging that I should have these things when I know I play for free but I wouldn't embarrass myself.

 

Again I point out that if you were so correct on this issue it would have been done. It would only take a few of these things to happen for players in members to think 'hold on, what am I paying for??'. Too dangerous a game for a business to play.

[AlexRose]

 

 

A simpler solution - Pay the cash, become a member, get a skillcape. Whats wrong with that? It also still stands that Jagex has not introduced skill capes to F2P.

 

 

That would certainly be a difficult solution if you were somehow unable to pay for membership (and I am not just referring to the inability to pay; I had to convince my parents to pay for my membership until I was able to pay directly myself).

 

Again, it does not matter in this argument if Jagex wants skillcapes in F2p or not . Please stop assuming that Jagex's initial decisions are without fault. If Jagex wanted to reset everyone's level back to level 1, would you consider that a wise decision? Whether Jagex wants an update isn't relevant in a discussion if the community deserves it.

 

 

 

The ideas haven't been put into practice saying its tangible is pointless because it didn't happen. If Jagex release things for both F2P and P2P it happens together. With both your items it didn't.

 

But F2p doesn't have skillcapes. And I fail to see what putting an idea into practice implies, other than gaining a greater knowledge of the impact of the update. So let's say I travel back to 2006, and say that Summoning will never occur, because surely Jagex would have released it, or at least inform us of their opinion on it, if it was truly a great idea. And surely F2p would have received skillcapes by now if it had been a great update!

 

 

 

If Jagex had decided to release both items together I'd have had no issues with it. My problem is when you release something for P2P then decide to give it to F2P because of the whinging, what is next? The line must be drawn.

 

 

There is no fault in my logic in that statement. You're talking here about taking away something they already have so it was a pointless piece of sarcasm. The 'where does it stop' argument is completely valid. If they make concessions on skillcapes then there will be posts like this one demanding something else, then something else and so on. The more you do for players the more they want, such is life. I'm the type of person who appreciates where things come from. I could take the stance of whinging that I should have these things when I know I play for free but I wouldn't embarrass myself.

 

Again, whether an update is actually implemented in the game (or conversely, not implemented in the game) does not affect whether it should be in the game. If people are whining about updates that should actually be in the game, then they are right. If they are whining about an update that should not be in the game, then they're wrong. But for the moment, I'll drop that. Let's say that the current F2p included a level cap of level 20 for all skills, included weapons only up to steel, and included no quest or PvP system. Would you support an update that would take that hypothetical F2p to more-or-less what it currently is today?

 

The reason skillcapes should be in F2p is that F2pers who have worked hard enough for a level 99 should enjoy the benefits of skillcapes. The reason the Bandos Godsword and Summoning are not in F2p is because the F2p's contribution to the Jagex Company is not sufficient enough to warrant such rewards.

 

 

 

Again I point out that if you were so correct on this issue it would have been done. It would only take a few of these things to happen for players in members to think 'hold on, what am I paying for??'. Too dangerous a game for a business to play.

[whosyourpk]

I'm f2p and I think that skillcapes should remain members

 

Firstly they have great defence bonus, +9 to all is really good. In p2p if you don't have any 99's you either buy obsidian cape or try to get fire one. It would affect pvp as well as pve, there is no counterpart of that cape planned for free player. In order to be good in fighting you'll need any maxed skill, just for the cape. Jagex at last partialy disagrees with non-combat skills haveing an effect on PvP, hope it will stay this way

 

Anyway is that cape so important? Nowdays even if you get 200m xp your name might not be shown on the first page of highscores (for example cooking). Why would anyone need to show of with their skills? There are so many maxed out players that only your friends will notice if you become one.

 

I think f2p is fine with just wilderness capes :)

[Rachellove9]

The f2p getting capes would go to a much better benefit if they got the stats that go with it too. I'm sure that clans that fight in f2p would love to be able to cash in on that. I'd love to be able to switch between my skill capes when I am on a f2p world with my friends. Often they want to see the emote and if you log in without it on, you can not get it out of the bank.

 

So I would support the idea.

 

Rachy <3:

[Seabourch]

Now that these robots are largely extinct, it is time to think otherwise.

[Erewhon2]

The reason skillcapes should be in F2p is that F2pers who have worked hard enough for a level 99 should enjoy the benefits of skillcapes. The reason the Bandos Godsword and Summoning are not in F2p is because the F2p's contribution to the Jagex Company is not sufficient enough to warrant such rewards.

 

I don't get this......in what way is F2P players wanting skill capes contribution more than those wanting bandos etc? And I think that's the whole point, others wish for better armour in F2P, (it's been said in this thread), some want skill capes, you can't please everyone and the line has to be drawn between membership benefits and a great game that others get totally free.

[Guest jrhairychest]

That would certainly be a difficult solution if you were somehow unable to pay for membership (and I am not just referring to the inability to pay; I had to convince my parents to pay for my membership until I was able to pay directly myself).

 

Again, it does not matter in this argument if Jagex wants skillcapes in F2p or not . Please stop assuming that Jagex's initial decisions are without fault. If Jagex wanted to reset everyone's level back to level 1, would you consider that a wise decision? Whether Jagex wants an update isn't relevant in a discussion if the community deserves it.

First of all, anyone can purchase those pre-pay cards. These kids have more money than I do half the time. If they can't afford it or won't pay it then they should be grateful for any updates they get. When they start whinging, I class it as freeloading. Deserving a skillcape in F2P is by POV. You do, I don't.

You're in no position to state that Jagex are with fault on this issue. Its their decision, they've made it, its their game so abide by it. Jagex have more to lose in upsetting their members than keeping their F2Pers happy.

 

I hear a lot of this 'Jagex have faults' in these posts. I don't see you quitting membership in protest at it.

 

But F2p doesn't have skillcapes. And I fail to see what putting an idea into practice implies, other than gaining a greater knowledge of the impact of the update. So let's say I travel back to 2006, and say that Summoning will never occur, because surely Jagex would have released it, or at least inform us of their opinion on it, if it was truly a great idea. And surely F2p would have received skillcapes by now if it had been a great update!

You raised a pointless argument saying 'what if'. Your POV as to whether it would be a great update. I disagree.

 

Again, whether an update is actually implemented in the game (or conversely, not implemented in the game) does not affect whether it should be in the game. If people are whining about updates that should actually be in the game, then they are right. If they are whining about an update that should not be in the game, then they're wrong. But for the moment, I'll drop that. Let's say that the current F2p included a level cap of level 20 for all skills, included weapons only up to steel, and included no quest or PvP system. Would you support an update that would take that hypothetical F2p to more-or-less what it currently is today?

Climb down a bit here. Just because you said it doesn't make it right. This is your own POV and the POV of F2pers. F2Pers haven't just whinged about skillcapes, they whinge about a lot of things. Jagex do the right thing by not bowing down to their constant demands of new stuff all the time, but carefully selected things once in a while just to keep it fresh. I made the point about the more you do the more they will want and I'll stick by that.

 

Your cap point changes nothing. Its a free game so if it did happen, what right do they have to complain?. Whatever is available F2Pers should be grateful for what they have. You're not taking this point on board.

 

 

The reason skillcapes should be in F2p is that F2pers who have worked hard enough for a level 99 should enjoy the benefits of skillcapes. The reason the Bandos Godsword and Summoning are not in F2p is because the F2p's contribution to the Jagex Company is not sufficient enough to warrant such rewards.

So they can have skillcapes but not other stuff. What you're not getting is that once you give them skillcapes, they'll want the other stuff.

 

Edit - Erewhon2 you're stalking me!

[Alg]

The thing with skillcapes is that members have better/equal alternatives (often) more easily available (Fire, Obsidian, Ardougne 3 <3: ), and the capes themselves can be more a status symbol than a piece of powerful equipment. Obsidian capes cost about 100k now, the Ardougne cape is free if your skills are high enough, and there are enough firecape guides that it just takes practice and research.

Plus, the $5-6 cost does not go solely to skillcapes, it goes to every other member benefit. Most members do not have any 99s, so they aren't paying for the capes to go with them. Likewise there are F2P players that have 99s, and it just cost them time to get it.

[Troacctid]

So really the main problem with giving skillcapes to f2p--and the reason Jagex decided not to give skillcapes to f2p after serious consideration--is that it gives free players an incentive to train their skills to 99. That's a problem. Proponents of f2p skillcapes (myself included) view it as a reward to f2p players with 99 skills--they did the work, they deserve the reward, yes? That's totally true, totally valid, and it's an excellent case for making skillcapes more available, so long as balance issues were ironed out (you shouldn't get an advantage over other free players without a 99 because of your +9 def +4 pray cape).

 

But as good as it would be for those free players who have level 99 whatever already, or those ex-members who want to wear their capes again, it would cause problems. Players without 99 skills would see the capes, get jealous, and decide to get 99 for themselves. F2P doesn't have high-level content. With the exception of melee and ranged combat, there's no point to getting level 99 in f2p unless you really like the skill. You won't get any benefit from it and you'll still train exactly the same way you would at lower levels. With skillcapes in f2p, people would feel like they have to get one in order to be cool (which would be true, because as we all know, skillcapes are hella awesome) and they would start getting 99 in skills they don't enjoy, just to get the cape.

 

That means less fun for the players, pretty much. It also means they won't subscribe, which is bad because a. Jagex gets less money (which isn't a drawback if it legitimately improves the game, but is a reasonable consideration for small changes that are not necessarily important) and b. this would be the sort of person who would enjoy the members' game a lot better anyway, and they'd be missing out. And if they do subscribe, they'll regret wasting time in f2p getting 99 fishing at Barbarian Village when they could have done it at rocktails and gotten it just as fast with millions of gp in profit.

[AlexRose]

You're in no position to state that Jagex are with fault on this issue. Its their decision, they've made it, its their game so abide by it. Jagex have more to lose in upsetting their members than keeping their F2Pers happy.

 

I hear a lot of this 'Jagex have faults' in these posts. I don't see you quitting membership in protest at it.

 

Do you agree with this statement? "Jagex is perfect, and so is all their updates". That is essentially the argument you were attempting to build, and I believe that is false. It does not matter at all what Jagex decides on the issue, it is whether F2p actually deserves the update .

 

 

You raised a pointless argument saying 'what if'. Your POV as to whether it would be a great update. I disagree.

 

Hypothetical questions still raise points that need to be addressed, in which case how your logic is faulted. If that was the situation, and you tried applying your logic, you would be wrong. And because that would be a nearly identical situation today (if Jagex decided to release skill capes to F2p in the future), your logic is flawed.

 

Climb down a bit here. Just because you said it doesn't make it right. This is your own POV and the POV of F2pers. F2Pers haven't just whinged about skillcapes, they whinge about a lot of things. Jagex do the right thing by not bowing down to their constant demands of new stuff all the time, but carefully selected things once in a while just to keep it fresh. I made the point about the more you do the more they will want and I'll stick by that.

 

Right, but would F2p deserve the updates they whine about? In this case, they do. To the last sentence, see below two replies.

 

 

Your cap point changes nothing. Its a free game so if it did happen, what right do they have to complain?. Whatever is available F2Pers should be grateful for what they have. You're not taking this point on board.

 

But they do support Jagex! Not as nearly as much as Members do, but a significant amount nonetheless. That still gives them some representation in their updates. How else do you think all the other free games online support themselves?

 

 

So they can have skillcapes but not other stuff. What you're not getting is that once you give them skillcapes, they'll want the other stuff.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Of course F2p wants member's content! That's the case even now. How do you think a F2p would respond if you legitimately promised him membership? But you see, it doesn't matter, because they don't actually deserve all of members. But they do deserve skillcapes. Thus, Jagex should ignore the ludicrous requests, say godswords, and implement the reasonable requests, like skillcapes. So tell me, does F2p deserve skillcapes?

 

@erewhon: We're talking about the implemention the updates.

 

@troacctid: Good points. I'll discuss them later (in 1-2 hours)

[Guest jrhairychest]

Do you agree with this statement? "Jagex is perfect, and so is all their updates". That is essentially the argument you were attempting to build, and I believe that is false. It does not matter at all what Jagex decides on the issue, it is whether F2p actually deserves the update .

 

No I don't agree with it. The game has its flaws and bugs that need fixing. This is your argument by stating that Jagex made a mistake by not giving capes to P2P because it disagrees with your POV, not because they made a mistake, which they haven't. They didn't 'forget', they decided not to implement it. Simple. I also made the point in my last post about F2P 'not' deserving the update. And lets not forget, Jagex know a hell of a lot more how to run things than you.

 

Hypothetical questions still raise points that need to be addressed, in which case how your logic is faulted. If that was the situation, and you tried applying your logic, you would be wrong. And because that would be a nearly identical situation today (if Jagex decided to release skill capes to F2p in the future), your logic is flawed.

 

No what is here is someone trying hypothetical situations to support their argument instead of looking at fact. The fact is there are no F2P capes...and thats it. It is purely your own POV that states they should. No facts in that. If Jagex thought they deserved them then fine. At this moment in time, they don't so its not my logic thats flawed its yours.

 

Right, but would F2p deserve the updates they whine about? In this case, they do. To the last sentence, see below two replies.

No, I've already expressed that.

 

But they do support Jagex! Not as nearly as much as Members do, but a significant amount nonetheless. That still gives them some representation in their updates. How else do you think all the other free games online support themselves?

 

How much does an F2P player pay per month? £0! They don't pay any monies directly. Any generated is through advertising which helps F2P to try to sustain itself, so please spare me the bull about how much they contribute. Thats why tipit doesn't cost you anything. Take a look around at the advertising.

 

Exactly.

 

Of course F2p wants member's content! That's the case even now. How do you think a F2p would respond if you legitimately promised him membership? But you see, it doesn't matter, because they don't actually deserve all of members. But they do deserve skillcapes. Thus, Jagex should ignore the ludicrous requests, say godswords, and implement the reasonable requests, like skillcapes. So tell me, does F2p deserve skillcapes?

No. You're trying to be pick and choose members things to give to them. Why does a player not deserve a godsword but give them a cape? There are those with stats to wield them so does that make them 'deserving'? The line is drawn and thats it. If someone who is F2P wants a skillcape, they get membership. They make that choice freely to stay in F2P or go to members. Jagex are a business first and foremost and that means cash to survive - They want players to become members, not incentives to stick around in F2P.