Bubsa Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Debate is fine, heated debate is fine, vicious, blood-thirsty debate is fine. But argument? No. That's what happens when you abandon reason and logic, and instead resort to slander and jibe. You may as well stop. I think that's a really good way to view it. And when the latter occurs, you can exit with a sense of 'winning'. (As in, the other person is now name calling, they've lost the validity in what they're saying). But by no means should people automatically assume that when someone calls another 'an idiot' it's an insult and then they should be disregarded. A lot of the time, they'll just be stating the obvious about that other. E.G A: Kevin Bacon was in Footloose B: No he wasn't. A: B, you're an idiot. = not an insult. This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 A: Kevin Bacon was in Footloose B: No he wasn't. A: B, you're an idiot. = not an insult. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyN5xg6OCQs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 A: Kevin Bacon was in Footloose B: No he wasn't. A: B, you're an idiot. = not an insult. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyN5xg6OCQs Exactly where I got my example from :P Didn't expect someone to quote me on it THAT quickly! This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Exactly where I got my example from :P Didn't expect someone to quote me on it THAT quickly! Forums were being janky, I could of had it posted a few minutes earlier :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPurpleCrayon Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share Posted May 13, 2007 I don't agree with anything said so far in this topic, and I feel you are all stupid for bringing it up. Am I the only one that caught the sarcasm here? No, I caught it too. Heh, I was really surprised MPC didn't catch it, he is a master at it :P . Hah, that was some pretty nice/subtle sarcasm man. :P I was also pretty surprised you would say something like that, but apparently you weren't. EDIT: I was actually at work when I made this topic and posted in it, which could explain how I skipped over the sarcasm. My mind was occupied with other things. Reading over it, it was so obvious. Ghost: I am prejudice towards ignorance, so that would explain why I appear to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam007 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I think what they're whining about with arguing is what makes it different from debate. The emotion involved. Debate normally doesn't get anyone upset (although some forum newcomers see regular debate as people getting in fights), but when people get emotional and when debate turns into arguing with personal jabs is where we begin to have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Debate is fine, heated debate is fine, vicious, blood-thirsty debate is fine. But argument? No. That's what happens when you abandon reason and logic, and instead resort to slander and jibe. You may as well stop. Eh, I didn't really know there was much of a difference between arguging and a heated debate. I mean, there might be a few techincal differences, but the overall points are the same, right? How would you define an argument then? "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star_Fox Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Arguing turns to flaming. or more rants that could last forever. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 When I do argue on this board, I tend to come across as not respecting other people's opinions. That's not the case. When I argue on this board, I know the other person is wrong, and I don't feel obligated to consider their point of view beyond disproving it. When I do see some sense in what they say, I don't argue with them unless it really is a point of contention. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 "He who only knows his side of the argument knows little of that" - The main reason stupid people stoop to name calling. Then comes god given opinions, the poster beleiving they are superior ect Some people like to defy logic, when their illogical opinions are shown and contradictions arise they like to shift the blame onto the person showing them how contradictory their opinions are, then they say you twist their words, thats the only place where intelligent debate leads to argument. I don't know why people mistake debate for argument, argument contains stupid name calling whereas debate contains discussion about peoples opinions not themselves. But usually that misconception of people thinking you are attacking them by attacking their opinions is the same as attacking them personally results in name calling. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 As assassin put it, all forms of debate are fine but then there's only a one post gap between turning a topic from a debate into an argument. It's semantically confusing but I'm sure you'll all see a point in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 People whine because they want to have a decent debate, yet all the debates on here get ruined through name-calling, arrogant comments and just simple rudeness. RS, and therefore Tip.It, attracts a wide variety of gamers from all ages. The younger children with little experience of a proper debate get annoyed that their points never get taken, so resort to cussing. Then the people that are trying to have a decent debate get annoyed, so start whining because of what they see as 'childish arguing'. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I think we should have a subforum for debates in OT as, obviously, there's never much true debating going on here. Set strict posting rules and guidelines for those who want to have an intelligent debate. Just an idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I think we should have a subforum for debates in OT as, obviously, there's never much true debating going on here. Set strict posting rules and guidelines for those who want to have an intelligent debate. Just an idea... http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=601519 With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 No way, no debate board. We can't keep diluting the OT, because sooner or later, they'll be nothing here. This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoteman Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 No way, no debate board. We can't keep diluting the OT, because sooner or later, they'll be nothing here. So true, all we'd have are discussions about current news and spam topics such as 'what is your favourite food' or 'what colour is your hair', my favourite. I'd have to agree with the majority of the posters in saying that most people who at least have a small ammount of maturity hate arguing because it's pretty much pointless. (not to be confused with debate or discussion :wink: ) "A disbelief in magic can force some poor souls into believing in authority and business" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 There are many types of conflict and many can be resolved so simply, however, sadly many people don't really think about it. Interpersonal conflict - a situation in which the needs or ideas of one person are perceived to be at odds with or in opposition to the needs or ideas of another pseudoconflict - conflict that is apparent, not real. It occurs in a situation of apparent incompatibility between the needs or ideas of the partners involved. Badgering - light teasing, taunting, and mocking behaviour. Solution: recognize badgering for what it is. dont let yourself be drawn in. fact conflict - conflict that occurs when the information one person presents is disputed by the other. Solution: look for ways of meeting both needs. stop and check the facts or wait for an appropriate time when facts can be given. value conflict - conflicts over the deep-seated beliefs people hold about what is good or bad, worthwhile or worthless, desirable or undesirable, moral or immoral. Solution: look for areas in which both parties agree and work from there. if no agreement, you may just have to agree to disagree. policy conflict - conflicts that occur when two people in a relationship disagree about what should be the appropriate plan, course of action or behaviour in dealing with a perceived problem. Solution: Identify the nature of the problem. Agree on a policy (a plan of action or set of behaviours) that is most likely to provide the best solution. ego conflict - conflicts that occur when the people involved view 'winning' the conflict as central to maintaining the positive self-image. Solution: Look for ways to move the conflict away from an ego level and back down to a content level. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Collaborating through the problem: - Some of you may want to copy and paste this and print it out - It will give you learning grounds to communication and managing conflict. 1. Define the problem - What's the issue being considered? 2. Analyze the problem - What are the causes and symptoms? 3. Develop mutually agreeable criteria for judging alternative solutions. - What goals will a good solution reach? 4. Generate alternative solutions - What could we do? List before discussing each. 5. Select the solution that best fits the criteria identified - Select one or a combination from those listed. Approach Characteristics Goal Outlook Withdrawal - Uncooperative, unassertive, to keep from dealing with conflict. "I don't want to talk about it". Accommodating - Cooperative unassertive, to keep from upsetting the other person. "Getting my way isn't as important as keeping the peace". Forcing - uncooperative, assertive, to get my own way. "I'll get my way regardless of what I have to do". Compromising - partially cooperative, partially assertive, to get partial satisfaction. "I'll get partial satisfaction by letting the other person get partial satisfaction as well". Collaborating - cooperative, assertive, to solve the problem together. "Let's talk this out and find the best solution possible for both of us". Communication skills all of you might like to learn: 1. Recognize and state ownership of the apparent problem. Make "I" statements. Instead of "Your music is too damn loud, turn it down I'm trying to study", say "Hi, I'm having a problem that I need your help with. I'm trying to study for an exam". Your neighbour is not having the problem, you are having the problem. 2. Describe the basis of the potential conflict in terms or behaviour, consequences, and feelings. Use the "B.C.F" sequence (Behaviour, consequence, feelings). "When I hear your music (B), I get distracted and canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t concentrate on studying © and then I get frustrated and annoyed." (F) 3. Avoid evaluating the other person's motives. Don't say anything to creative defensiveness. The other person is probably not going out of their way on purpose to intentionally annoy you. For instance you would not like to say "You're being really inconsiderate of others in the building". You want the focus to be on what is happening to YOU. 4. be sure the other person understands your problem. Suppose your neighbour says "Oh come on, everyone plays loud music in this neighbourhood and there has even been times when YOUR music has been too loud!ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Debate is fine, heated debate is fine, vicious, blood-thirsty debate is fine. But argument? No. That's what happens when you abandon reason and logic, and instead resort to slander and jibe. You may as well stop. Why don't you tell that to all the idiots I've debated with on this forums? "I'm not going to argue with you. I can't convince you, you can't convince me." Morons. Who the [bleep] says I was trying to convince anymore. A debate is more than just convincing others. Idiots, just plain idiots. Then we have trolls and such.. like bubsa! Barely posting anything of relevance to the OT. Ain't that right? Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 That's right, Captain ignorant! This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPurpleCrayon Posted May 13, 2007 Author Share Posted May 13, 2007 Why don't you tell that to all the idiots I've debated with on this forums? "I'm not going to argue with you. I can't convince you, you can't convince me." Morons. Who the [bleep] says I was trying to convince anymore. A debate is more than just convincing others. Idiots, just plain idiots. Then we have trolls and such.. like bubsa! Barely posting anything of relevance to the OT. Ain't that right? Ohh, so you're the reason why people hate arguments on this board, now I get it. Ghost: I am prejudice towards ignorance, so that would explain why I appear to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan18 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 don't you know? arguing online and winning regardless of means and logic grows your genitals in real life!!! thats why people argue, thats why its disgusting, watching two (even worse... three... or MORE) people trying to one up each other purely for egotistical reasons. Its like this: Opinions don't match? sweet, a chance to grow some balls online, because i dont have any in real life!!! sad, yes. true, even moreso. I've met people like this in real life (yes, people from message boards, in real life. ewww). They never have the balls to speak out like they do on message boards. This disgusting behavior accounts for most belligerent forumgoers. You're not one of them, you say? I bet you arent. Yea, sure. Point is, people dont like watching people go at each other because its pathetic. Irrelevant, stupid, off topic (most of the time, anyways), but mostly, pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocobodude0 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Uh, did anybody else notice that people are now arguing over arguments? OhGodNoPleaseDon'tFlameMe. :-# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionheart_0 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 *Sigh* This board is so ironic. Anyways, I see the same people complaining about this kinda stuff all the time. In reality, it just comes down to how well people can discuss, put their thoughts into words, as well as reading comprehension. The last one is the biggest problem i think. Many people read out of context, which leads to problems. In reality, half the stuff discussed these days comes down to opinion. The thing about opinion though is there is no right or wrong. This allows for some debate, but non that should be so heated as to bring forth any arguments. who cares what one other thinks? It's just their opinion. But at the same time, don't put down theirs or try to change it. Now if someone is posting something factual, and its wrong, this is where you can tell them its wrong, blah blah blah. They are actually wrong, and should be told so. I'll take a moment to list some of the things that are subjective (Opinions): Politics(As in a persons views) Religion Moral views ect Now that said, yes people need to learn how to accept things. Although the internet is all serious and what not, people should learn to have some fun and what not. If someone says something bad, do not take it with a grain of salt. Just let it slide. Smile :D One last thing... I really dont get spam... can someone explain to me what it is exactly? Sig by IkuraiYour Guide to Posting! Behave or I will send my Moose mounted Beaver launchers at you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Opinions are a lot like essays. There are no right or wrong answers, but there are better answers than others. And let's face it, a lot of opinions that get thrown around by people here are stupidly misinformed. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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