Cold war 2?

[hohto]

As some of you might have noticed, USA is planning to build missile defence facilities. Building this kind of buildings to places which are really close to the Russian boarder is a straight threat towards them and now Putin has officially stated (source: BBC ) that if these bases are built, Russia will aim their missiles to certain points in Europe. This would be the first time after the end of the Cold War they'd have missiles pointing to Europe. If the real case now started, it wouldn't really matter are they aimed to these places or not: the major places could be destroyed quickly. The problem is more symbolical: are we acting in a way that's too offensive?

 

 

 

Even tho all European countries can do their own defensive moves and as part of the NATO these countries have the rights to do whatever they want. However EU could show some power here. This puts Europe under a threat: if USA for some reason got into war against Russia or China, Europe would get some fire as the enemy would need to destroy these bases too. Also they'd tie certain countries more into USA which wouldn't look too good at the eyes of certain terrorist groups.

 

 

 

Russia has already gained a lot of its power with Putin's reign. However without any law modifications he can't serve 3rd term and some extreme political groups have gained a lot of power there. Add that to these bases, how they acted during the Estonian chrisis and how they've lately threatened George and Ukraine. Scary soup there coming. Also Gorbachev who is known for example for many anti-nuclear weapon statements is now putting criticism for the US empire....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6717037.stm

 

 

 

Btw the bases are resisted by around 95% of the people who live in villages near the places where USA would build their bases. This was an actual vote, not just some reporter asking 42 people how do they feel about this. Is this democracy? Ok, small villages but still, it's percentually so huge majority that in a democractic society it should be noticed and the plans should be thought again.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6463463.stm

[vladmoney]

wait we are building defence mechanism, how is that a threat? Didn't they see that certain countries are developing nuclear war heads, and most of these countries hate the USA. I am sorry they don't have the same problem them then us, since USA likes to intervene in everyone business we have become kinda hated. We are always the targets so its nice to have some defence.

[malo2]

Were not being offensive, were being defensive. If what you are saying is true, then I'm quite shocked to see Russia turning against the rest of the world yet again. All because we added a little protection? what point are they trying to make here? "Don't protect your self because we want to kill you"?

[Diesel]

Were not being offensive, were being defensive.

 

 

 

I agree. I don't think that we intended to give the impression that we are threatening Russia. I think that it is needed to protect our country from North Korea. Considering they're gaining nuclear capabilities :-$ , we need to protect ourselves from a possible attack.

[The Dark Lord]

I don't get it. How come Russia's threatening Europe for something DEFENSIVE that the US is doing to protect against nuclear attacks?

 

 

 

Yeah, Russia...Makes a lot of sense.

[Mercifull]

Spending billions of dollars on state of the art missile defences when there's nothing to defend against seems crazy. The biggest risks in the world today are from terrorist strikes within our own countries not a rogue nation with an intercontinental ballistic missile.

[Viktorkrum77]

I swear Putin wants to reverse time. First the journalists, then Estonia, now this!

 

 

 

He needs to be impeached.

[Striker6]

Why in the name of God does anyone need nuclear weapons nowadays? :lol:

[KCHughes]

Heh, Russia has had nuclear missiles aimed at America for years, and vice versa. Even if America does go forward with this, it will take a long time before any of them are functional. Differences can be worked out by then.

 

 

 

Sigh, there is nothing to worry about. Putin will in no way pursue a third term and will almost definitely be succeeded by Sergei Ivanov, who is a lot more open towards the west and will do Russia a lot of good.

 

 

 

And it's to protect Europe from nuclear attacks from Iran, not North Korea. NK's nuclear program is thankfully all but gone and is on the way out. Plus, their missile capability would put a nuke in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, so no worries America. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

I like the idea of a missile shield, I just don't see the point of putting it in Europe. It's common knowledge that Iran would use any nuclear weapons against Israel, so the defense network should probably go there. Iran has good relations with many Western European nations including France.

 

 

 

Ah well. All I see in this situation are two governments that are too big for their trousers. :lol:

[sycosis5]

Heh, Russia has had nuclear missiles aimed at America for years, and vice versa. Even if America does go forward with this, it will take a long time before any of them are functional. Differences can be worked out by then.

 

 

 

Sigh, there is nothing to worry about. Putin will in no way pursue a third term and will almost definitely be succeeded by Sergei Ivanov, who is a lot more open towards the west and will do Russia a lot of good.

 

 

 

And it's to protect Europe from nuclear attacks from Iran, not North Korea. NK's nuclear program is thankfully all but gone and is on the way out. Plus, their missile capability would put a nuke in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, so no worries America. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

I like the idea of a missile shield, I just don't see the point of putting it in Europe. It's common knowledge that Iran would use any nuclear weapons against Israel, so the defense network should probably go there. Iran has good relations with many Western European nations including France.

 

 

 

Ah well. All I see in this situation are two governments that are too big for their trousers. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

so there not launching an attack on uerope if the did would it be at scotland if so Pack your bags im moving to australia

[StrOwez]

I don't get it. How come Russia's threatening Europe for something DEFENSIVE that the US is doing to protect against nuclear attacks?

 

 

 

Yeah, Russia...Makes a lot of sense.

wow talk about generalizing. Russia is in a fuss about this because the 'defense' system can also be used to spy it is multy used, it has a clear range of spying onto Russian territory. Which bothers Russia because it gives USA a bigger scale of access. Trust me if Russia decided to build the same 'defense' system in Cuba. USA would make the same objections.

 

 

 

Why in the name of God does anyone need nuclear weapons nowadays? :lol:

Why don't you try and take your head out of the sand.

[Satenza]

When will America realize that the only thing that can save them is a laissez faire international policy.

[warri0r45]

Why in the name of God does anyone need nuclear weapons nowadays? :lol:

 

 

 

We never needed them but we do now. Mutually assured destruction.

[hohto]

wait we are building defence mechanism, how is that a threat?

 

 

 

Same reason why during the last cold war they just kept making more and more weapons of mass destruction. All the time you want to be a head of your enemy even tho you know that will just force it to catch you. To add protection, you need something to protect against: this is what Russia probably sees as a threat.

 

 

 

The best possibility would be reducing nuclear weapons from both sides, not trying just to defend against them. You can't win them by any shields: add one to Prague and they'll bomb whole Europe if needed. No shield is strong enough against those weapons.

 

 

 

I agree. I don't think that we intended to give the impression that we are threatening Russia. I think that it is needed to protect our country from North Korea.

 

 

 

North Korea isn't directly a threat to USA: their missile technology isn't that superior when compared to Russia for example, they don't have many nuclear weapons and so on. Also if it was against Iran's strike to Europe, why to build it to places which they are planning? Spain or France would make a lot more sense. Also they should have done it with Russia in that case: Russia got a lot of money hold in the middle Europe (selling gas for example) so they most likely wouldn't like to see Berlin, Prague and Paris suffering.... At least not too much.

 

 

 

Anyways if you ask me, this kind of shield systems are just a waste of money. The explosion will happen anyways and with this kind of shields they'd just infect other important places. Bet Berlin wouldn't like to get too much radioactive stuff from a missile which was aimed to London. Also all shields can be passed: just bomb the shield with few nukes and voilÃÆÃâÃâá: no shield.

[Stilev]

my questions isn't if Russia will do anything, but what? i mean from what i remember from the first cold war, they are basicly running on empty with their econamy.

 

 

 

is it so bad now that they cant even target america and have to target Europe?

[hohto]

my questions isn't if Russia will do anything, but what? i mean from what i remember from the first cold war, they are basicly running on empty with their econamy.

 

 

 

is it so bad now that they cant even target america and have to target Europe?

 

 

 

The point is that when the situation goes into cold war, we're close to a hot war. There were many points during the first cold war when it was really close to turn into a hot. We were lucky not to see that, but I wouldn't risk again. The stakes are just too high for that. Aiming missiles is the first step, building more is 2nd and in 3rd they have been launched. We're now on step 1 and step 3 is something you really don't want to think.

 

 

 

Also comparing the communist Soviet Union to a somewhat liberal (at least when compared to SU) Russia in the fields of economy is a bit wrong. At the moment Russia is an important gas bringer for some European countries and if their plans go right, they're soon controlling the Europe's power market.

 

 

 

They can still target America. No shield can stop them. They got enough nukes to destroy this whole planet many times, good luck on stopping that arsenal. One excuse for the shield is that it would stop the first strike and give time for massive retaliation. Russian or Chinese generals aren't stupid tho, so if the shield was build and seen to work, they'd just blast enough nukes to blow off the whole North-America.

[warren211]

wait we are building defence mechanism, how is that a threat? Didn't they see that certain countries are developing nuclear war heads, and most of these countries hate the USA. I am sorry they don't have the same problem them then us, since USA likes to intervene in everyone business we have become kinda hated. We are always the targets so its nice to have some defence.

 

 

 

While I don't see it as threatening, I do believe that if a foreign country came to your area and build a towering building just for defence, you'd probably protest too.

 

 

 

About that intervening thing... the US is always stuck in the middle. During what i believe was the 18th or 19th century, France was fighting with Britain. The USA nad a Neutrality proclamation. they wouldn't get involved in europe. they traded weapons and stuff to both sides just for business, not for support. but both the countries took it the wrong way and fired at any US ships that sent goods to the opposing country. US got caught right in the middle of the war. Now, we try to help out the others, and everything's screwing up on our part and on how the Russians assert their authority on us (not that thats a bad thing, I'd protest too if a country built defence mechanisms on our land).

 

 

 

I think that we Americans should go back to the principles of the Neutrality proclamation. Why should we waste our money, people, and time on the other countries when it only ends in turmoil for them and blame for us? Look at Iraq. Bush threw us in, now we can't leave until we rebuild. Otherwise, we've left Iraq in ruins. Like I said, the US is stuck in the middle of foreign affairs.

[warren211]

I swear Putin wants to reverse time. First the journalists, then Estonia, now this!

 

 

 

He needs to be impeached.

 

 

 

easier said than done. Its like trying to convince you to stay in one country instead of flying all the way to chicago to wash windows. :lol:

[honeo]

I don't get it. How come Russia's threatening Europe for something DEFENSIVE that the US is doing to protect against nuclear attacks?

 

 

 

Yeah, Russia...Makes a lot of sense.

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing. I can only think of three things. Europe is part of NATO, Europe is closer than the US, and US has a better offensive missle system.

[assassin_696]

As Merc said though, why is America still using the old policy of well 'if we have enough then they won't shoot at us'?

 

 

 

We came too close during the Cold War to destroying ourselves and we need to learn our lessons.

[hohto]

I was wondering the same thing. I can only think of three things. Europe is part of NATO, Europe is closer than the US, and US has a better offensive missle system.

 

 

 

Certain European countries are, not even close to all. However this kind of shield is a threat to pretty much all the European cities, if not directly from the nukes explosing in their space, it would at least cause massice economical disasters. Also the distance doesn't really matter: google how was the missiles can fly and count the time you got t to react. It adds some time, but it's still so small time you got to react. Also if this kind of a shield was built, they'd just shoot shoot it from their eastern parts or launch a bigger punch of missiles.

 

 

 

It's not a real wonder why the russians are now on their toes. Defence is the best attack (and visa versa), the less you can be hurt the more you can hurt. Also knowing the Russian imperialism and how they are slowly trying to regain some of the power they lost, I'd rather now make real allies with them than poke them with sharp sticks this way.

[RebelAssassin]

if Russia was to attack the US wouldnt they fire the missles the other direction?

[Striker6]

Why in the name of God does anyone need nuclear weapons nowadays? :lol:

 

 

 

We never needed them but we do now. Mutually assured destruction.

 

 

 

Thats an awful strategy, lets look at North Korea, are they being deterred-no.

[hohto]

if Russia was to attack the US wouldnt they fire the missles the other direction?

 

 

 

Doesn't really matter which way do you shoot them, bet they got missiles aimed from east to west and from north to south.

[Tigra00]

Why in the name of God does anyone need nuclear weapons nowadays? :lol:

 

 

 

We never needed them but we do now. Mutually assured destruction.

 

 

 

Thats an awful strategy, lets look at North Korea, are they being deterred-no.

 

 

 

It's the best strategy to stop nukes from being dropped. And North Korea is a threat to no one. Even if they could launch a nuke (they can't), and it hit ANY country, they'd get absolutely thrashed by everyone. It's a poverty-stricken nation with some psycho dictator no one cares about anymore. He just tries to stir up crap by saying he's looking into nuclear power and testing missiles. Wooohoo.

 

 

 

There will never be nuclear war. Everyone knows the outcome of that. Everyone dies, the planet itself gets destroyed, and it's game over all because you couldn't settle your differences, and no one wants to play that game. It's why the Cold War never happened...Well, it never, uhh...heated up.