Brainstorming Session: Elminating autoers from coming back

[Made0f12une]

[hide=Note to moderators]Please do not move this to the marcoer/autoer discussion. This thread has a purpose of devising a plan to elminate autoers from coming back. It's not strictly a discussion about them.[/hide]

 

 

 

Well recently I've realized (well not really recently, it's been known for awhile, I just started to think about it) that no matter how many you ban, they can always come back. Every single time. Why? Because we have the freedom to make and own as many accounts as we want. If we wanted an army of 1 million noobs, then we could have it. Why anyone would want that, I'm not sure, but it's possible. There is no way that you can forever eliminate the autoers unless there is some kind of restrictions put on the account making process.

 

 

 

Here are a few ideas I've come up with. I'll gather any ideas that have a good potential from all of you.

 

 

 

Idea #1

 

Add a restriction to the number of accounts per IP. Example Being Used: 5

 

 

 

How it would benefit: If the autoers made 5 accounts on their IP and then got them all banned, they could no longer play and pollute our economy and game.

 

 

 

How it could be a problem: Now-a-days there is usually more then computer per household which all are on the same network thanks to a router. If it were to be biased on a dynamic IP then people with same 2 children, with 2 computers, each want their own 5 accounts, they would be restricted to Two accounts per person, plus and extra one. This would ultimately lead to account sharing. If it's not biased on a dynamic IP then they could just get the IP to their home computer changed by flushing and resetting it, or using a proxy and getting around the 5 accounts per IP rule. It would be hassle but they'd still be able to play.

 

 

 

This would also interfear with Tip.it Freak Trains. If you're at your limit wth a main, skiller, staker, and two pkers then you wont have room to make a fun account. Also if you have 4 aco[bleep]s I'm sure no one would want to "waste" their 5th account spot on a fun account you're going to use for an hour.

 

 

 

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Idea #2

 

Add a restriction to a certain amount of accounts per computer. Example being used: 5

 

 

 

How it will Benefit:

 

If there was to be a file downloaded to your computer, such as the uid.dat to determine where accounts are coming from, then this would work brilliantly. The file would track black marks and bans, and once someone has had 5 accounts banned, they are no longer allowed to play Runescape.

 

 

 

How it would be a problem:

 

If this file was ever discovered then, autoers could roam free, and this could be over come by a simple wipe of the hard drive. I suppose if you really wanted to play that badly, you could wipe your hard rive but who would sit around wiping their hard drive every weekend to play a game? I know I wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t.

 

Also if there is only 1 computer per household and a lets say one brother is legit and one brother gets into autoing, and Brother A gets his autoers banned then both Brother A and Brother B are punished for one childÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s stupidity.

 

 

 

This would also interfear with Tip.it Freak Trains. If you're at your limit wth a main, skiller, staker, and two pkers then you wont have room to make a fun account. Also if you have 4 aco[bleep]s I'm sure no one would want to "waste" their 5th account spot on a fun account you're going to use for an hour.

 

 

 

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Idea #3

 

 

 

 

I like the suggestion of a new one-time-only random event every week, as well: I think this would be the most effective solution to the macroing problem as it requires the player to be at the computer and ready to handle it as soon as possible.

 

 

 

I'd like to add that if the player fails to address the random event properly, a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

This random event should not interrupt combat or Duel Arena users, but will interrupt EVERYTHING else, from shopgoers to book-readers to stair-climbers to banking users. Unless the player is in the Wilderness or other combat areas, their ability to log out will be locked.

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier.

 

 

 

Legitimate players who are logged out during the issuance of the random event will answer it when they log back in.

 

 

 

In order to ensure that all players are issued the event at least once, the same random event will be given three times in one day and a different one issued at three random times on a random day of the next week.

 

 

 

Advantages:

 

a. Fast detection of macroers

 

b. Macro writers will not be able to keep up with the sudden appearance of such events

 

c. Bans large number of macroers in a very short time

 

d. Bans shop macroers, who are responsible for a continually inflated cost of death and chaos runes

 

e. Regardless of ban success, will hugely interrupt the macroing operation until a solution is coded

 

f. Macroers are logged in almost 24-7; this means that most legitimate players will not be adversely affected by random events during the issuance.

 

g. A weekly random event will have cumulative effects on bots: those that are logged out for one set of events may be caught by the next.

 

 

Disadvantages:

 

a. Coding a new random event every week would be stressful and costly

 

b. Can result in banning of innocent skillers

 

c. Can result in the ban of non-english-speaking players

 

d. Floods JaGeX with data, a large part of which may be useless

 

e. May disrupt the economy

 

f. It is critical that the event be issued simultaneously to all online players

 

g. This system is going to be difficult to implement

 

These are only two I've come up with off the top of my head. I'll try and develop some more ideas

 

 

 

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Idea #4

 

Impose an ingame requirement of either total time ingame (either 40-160 hours or 30 days ingame) or total level skill (200-450), before being granted permission to join members.

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

* Right off the bat, numerous level 3s would not be permitted to collect the bulk of members' resources due to them not immediately meeting the requirement of becoming a member.

 

 

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

* This could very well hamper skill pures to the degree of not even being able to come over to members.

 

* It could also hamper pures from other players (with higher leveled accounts) from granting their pures membership.

 

* Legitimate level 3 players or players that don't feel like dealing with freeplay would be left in the dust.

 

* Major revenue drop for Jagex, they'd be less inclined to consider this.

 

 

 

 

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Idea #5

 

Place extra quest requirements in certain resource-gathering areas of freeplay to reduce their accessibility.

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

* A sharp drop in certain resource gathering spots would be noted, i.e. Yews, Lobsters, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

* Wouldn't truly affect Runecrafting due to a quest requirement already in place.

 

 

 

 

 

Certain skillers on freeplay would also notice a limit of gathering resources as well, and that could very well be a con.

 

 

 

 

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Idea #5

 

Require an equivalent smithing level to mine a particular rock (when you can smith Steel, would also be when you could mine Coal), OR require at least that Knights' Sword and Doric's Quest be completed to mine coal and above. For Runecrafting, impose a certain Runecrafting level to be permitted to mine essence at (for instance, permit only enough essence to be mined to level to a certain point on freeplay) This level cap would increase as time passed.

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

* It would force players to have the skill of working with the material that they are actually harvesting.

 

 

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

* May hinder legitimate players from leveling Smithing in an effective manner.

 

 

 

Well there you have it. I don't think that these suggestions would be a quick fix, nor do I think that it could be done at the drop of the hat. What others must also realize is that this 'battle' against autoers is not nearly as clairvoyant as it seems on the surface; there are many needless levels of complication, legal issues and socio-economical barriers that must be overcome (there IS a reason that people in 3rd world countries do this...it's to put food on the table).

 

 

 

 

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Various other Suggestions

 

The CAPTCHA system, which is a randomly generated image on sign-up where the user is asked to confirm the letters/numbers in the image could be added to the RS make account section. This wouldn't completely get rid of autoers, but cut off any use of the auto-make-account problem.

 

[Mc_comix_yo]

Yeah, except proxies and IP changers are incredibly easy to get and use. I'm sure they'd have a static IP address and just get around that.

 

 

 

Also, another thing -- With your second suggestion, there are autoing programs out there that do nothing more than click colors, which means they'd still be playing from RuneScape.com. Also, with the whole "...but who would want to wipe their hard drive to play every weekend?" ... Nobody. The thing with most autoers is they don't actually want to play. 98% of them aren't even playing RS for their own amusement these days.

[Made0f12une]

Yeah, except proxies and IP changers are incredibly easy to get and use. I'm sure they'd have a static IP address and just get around that.

 

 

 

That's why it's mentioned as someting that would be a problem. I'm trying to compose something that would work in favour both ways. Then I'll send it out and hope for the best.

[Freesia]

Idea 1 may not work since there are quite a number of ways to change IP, rendering the solution ineffective.

 

 

 

I heard some things in the forum that autoing programs can be detected at login, so if Jagex forbids autoing programs from there it may work out well.

[Made0f12une]

Idea 1 may not work since there are quite a number of ways to change IP, rendering the solution ineffective.

 

 

 

I heard some things in the forum that autoing programs can be detected at login, so if Jagex forbids autoing programs from there it may work out well.

 

 

 

If have some first hand knoledge of autoers since I was part of the underground in RSC. I dont think there is a way to implant such a feature because alot of the programs use a modified Runescape client. Its the same thing it just has more options to it. but of course I'm sure things have changed alot since RSC and they are more advanced

[Dragon_lord]

There are many loopholes around each and everyone of your suggestions mate. I know you mean well, but there is no way to fully rid the game of these rule breakers...

 

If any attempt had a chance, it would have been the sleeping bags back in RSC. Unfortunately they got around it with a program called "Sleepwalker". So I guess the best we can do is just keep reporting them...

[Made0f12une]

There are many loopholes around each and everyone of your suggestions mate. I know you mean well, but there is no way to fully rid the game of these rule breakers...

 

If any attempt had a chance, it would have been the sleeping bags back in RSC. Unfortunately they got around it with a program called "Sleepwalker". So I guess the best we can do is just keep reporting them...

 

 

 

This thread wasn't created for my input and my input only :D it's called brainstorming for a reason. Which menas that you guys should be suggesting ideas too.

 

 

 

There will always be loopholes. If we can somehow devise a plan with as little loopholes as possiable it'll be for the best. There will always be loopholes, we just have to minimize them.

[Dragon_lord]

This thread wasn't created for my input and my input only :D it's called brainstorming for a reason. Which menas that you guys should be suggesting ideas too.

 

 

 

There will always be loopholes. If we can somehow devise a plan with as little loopholes as possiable it'll be for the best. There will always be loopholes, we just have to minimize them.

 

 

 

Well, Jagex already has a very good and effective way of tracking down and banning these rule breakers, and TB@JT are by far much more creative and sneeky than most of us...

[Iamdan]

Ip isn't going to work.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, every macroer with half a brain knows about the uid. It is easy to either delete it all the time, or have 2 uid files, one which is used when playing with a main or pker, and another for macroing.

 

 

 

Unsigned applet can't use uid.dat.

[Made0f12une]

This thread wasn't created for my input and my input only :D it's called brainstorming for a reason. Which menas that you guys should be suggesting ideas too.

 

 

 

There will always be loopholes. If we can somehow devise a plan with as little loopholes as possiable it'll be for the best. There will always be loopholes, we just have to minimize them.

 

 

 

Well, Jagex already has a very good and effective way of tracking down and banning these rule breakers, and TB@JT are by far much more creative and sneeky than most of us...

 

 

 

TB@JT

? Referring to the Marcoers? I'd say yes, the time I spent in the underground I met many computer programming prodgies. I even met someone that found faults inside a programming langauge. There are so many smart kids, just involved in the wrong area. I dont blame them though, it's good pratice for them. The things they code are truely amazing.

 

 

 

I have say I have to award Jagex for Cracking down on the crime lately. The amount of bans they're throwing out on real world trading, offensive names, and marcoing is awsome. But no matter how many they ban, they'll always come back. They care nothing of the account, it's the outcome they want, the raw materials.

 

 

 

Ip isn't going to work.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, every macroer with half a brain knows about the uid. It is easy to either delete it all the time, or have 2 uid files, one which is used when playing with a main or pker, and another for macroing.

 

 

 

Unsigned applet can't use uid.dat.

 

 

 

I heard they moved it. Also I wasn't suggesting that they add this into, I was suggesting they create a whole new file.

 

 

 

Why doesnt anyone comprehend the fact that brianstorming means that we all put our brains together to form a plan of how to elminate them. THINK TOGETHER! :) This isn't a "hey these are my ideas, discuss them" topic. Outside input IS welcomed

[Punc]

The problem is that macro's adapt. There isn't one single solution, you will always have to react to what macro's do, which isn't a rool role to be in.

 

If Jagex creates more randoms, then normal players will get annoyed with too many randoms, if they don't then normal players will be annoyed at the macro's.

 

 

 

Limiting the accounts would help, but it would hurt honest players more then macro's..

 

 

 

Offcourse, they could do like they did with RSC, close it down for awhile, clean it up, and re-open.

 

Make it so that one can only register once a week or something, that should slow down macro's, but once again, punish the honest players..

[nomadmike]

:-k Why dosent Jagex just hire some people who will patrol each world. They will have accounts that can kick someone(or all people playing on the ip) off the game. These "accounts" would be something between a Real Jagex mod and a player mod.

 

 

 

:anxious: Best I can think of. #-o

[Iamdan]

Nobody is outputting any ideas because there is no way to effectively stop macroing. I have never seen any ideas to stop macroing which will actually work.

 

 

 

I had my own idea (see "Real way to stop macroers, won't affect gameplay" in bugs and suggestions) which will kill client hacked macroers but won't stop colour clickers and BCEL injection etc.

[trecool9897]

Perhaps a large ban that at one point in time everyone online in rs must take some random event. I suggest it's something different from the rest and perhaps takes a bit of time. Though, there will be exceptions from this like players in combat, wildy and other places. But as soon as they reach normal land they take the random event. All the people that do not pass the random event immediatly log off and cannot log in until Jagex clears their name. This may seem extreme but we need to do something to get rid of these cheats!

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

I like the suggestion of a new one-time-only random event every week, as well: I think this would be the most effective solution to the macroing problem as it requires the player to be at the computer and ready to handle it as soon as possible.

 

 

 

I'd like to add that if the player fails to address the random event properly, a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

This random event should not interrupt combat or Duel Arena users, but will interrupt EVERYTHING else, from shopgoers to book-readers to stair-climbers to banking users. Unless the player is in the Wilderness or other combat areas, their ability to log out will be locked.

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier.

 

 

 

Legitimate players who are logged out during the issuance of the random event will answer it when they log back in.

 

 

 

In order to ensure that all players are issued the event at least once, the same random event will be given three times in one day and a different one issued at three random times on a random day of the next week.

 

 

 

Advantages:

 

a. Fast detection of macroers

 

b. Macro writers will not be able to keep up with the sudden appearance of such events

 

c. Bans large number of macroers in a very short time

 

d. Bans shop macroers, who are responsible for a continually inflated cost of death and chaos runes

 

e. Regardless of ban success, will hugely interrupt the macroing operation until a solution is coded

 

f. Macroers are logged in almost 24-7; this means that most legitimate players will not be adversely affected by random events during the issuance.

 

g. A weekly random event will have cumulative effects on bots: those that are logged out for one set of events may be caught by the next.

 

 

 

Disadvantages:

 

a. Coding a new random event every week would be stressful and costly

 

b. Can result in banning of innocent skillers

 

c. Can result in the ban of non-english-speaking players

 

d. Floods JaGeX with data, a large part of which may be useless

 

e. May disrupt the economy

 

f. It is critical that the event be issued simultaneously to all online players

 

g. This system is going to be difficult to implement

[superson]

Make it so 1 computer can only play for a total of 24 hours a day.

 

 

 

Sounds stupid, but it will eliminate multi-logging autoers. Say an autoer has 10 accounts running on 1 computer.

 

 

 

After 2.4 hours of this, he gets kicked off runescape for the day.

 

 

 

This won't effect most people, since we don't multi log :)

 

 

 

Just thought of this now, btw.

[Made0f12une]

I like the suggestion of a new one-time-only random event every week, as well: I think this would be the most effective solution to the macroing problem as it requires the player to be at the computer and ready to handle it as soon as possible. I'd like to add that if the player fails to address the random event properly, a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

This random event should not interrupt combat or Duel Arena users, but will interrupt EVERYTHING else, from shopgoers to book-readers to stair-climbers to banking users.

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations take the topmost tier.

 

 

 

Advantages:

 

a. Fast detection of macroers

 

b. Macro writers will not be able to keep up with the sudden appearance of such events

 

c. Bans large number of macroers in a very short time

 

d. Bans shop macroers, who are responsible for a continually inflated cost of death and chaos runes

 

 

 

Disadvantages:

 

a. Coding a new random event every week would be stressful and costly

 

b. Can result in banning of innocent skillers

 

c. Can result in the ban of non-english-speaking players

 

d. Floods JaGeX with data, a large part of which may be useless

 

e. May disrupt the economy

 

 

 

That's an amazing idea. Just to make it even more complex, have it at differnt times of the day, once per day of course, and have it on differnt days of the week everyweek. That way the marcoers can't narrow it down to a certain point and just be ready at that time.

 

 

 

Make it so 1 computer can only play for a total of 24 hours a day.

 

 

 

Sounds stupid, but it will eliminate multi-logging autoers. Say an autoer has 10 accounts running on 1 computer.

 

 

 

After 2.4 hours of this, he gets kicked off runescape for the day.

 

 

 

This won't effect most people, since we don't multi log :)

 

 

 

Just thought of this now, btw.

 

 

 

This would work except for the fact that more then one child may be playing on that computer. Child A could consume a majority of the time and leave Child B and possiably Child C with little playing time

[Iamdan]

Artificial_Doom_Flavor that would actually be quite easily bypassed.

 

 

 

Generally macroers use an array of players. If one account gets messed up it switches to the next.

 

 

 

There would have to be some sort of constant event each time the random event occurred, the macro could look out for this and kill the account then switch to the next.

[kripz]

Client side scanner, you play the game you allow the scan, dont want your computer to be scanned? dont play the game.

[blosssom2581]

Make an index which reflexes the probability of a user to be autoing :wink:

 

 

 

The following adds value to the indexes, and when the index exceeds a fixed value, a ban is issued: :D

 

 

 

The 10 unforgiveable sins

 

(1) Selling many broken axe/ holding axe handle for unknown reasons (this actually happened several years ago and lead to numberous bans of macro users)

 

(2) Standing in front of a tree for hours

 

(3) Using some known gold farmer 'clan' as names (say, fcfc____ )

 

(4) Failing randoms many times, especially failing newly released random

 

(5) nothing but plenty of yew/lobsters/rune ess and cash in bank

 

(6) Log in for extremely long time (say, 12 hours or more)

 

(7) Moldified client (can be checked by different hashes, say MD5). If the client is checked to be modlified, and the farmer log on with a account, the account will be marked and investigated to see whether the change is caused by a virus or a deleberate change for cheating easily (for example, changing the colour of yew trees to be Red so that other trees will not be mistaken as yews)

 

(8) Don't talk anything

 

(9) Default clothings and silly armor (trainning sword? wodden shield?)

 

(10) Aah! I forgot this one - using a cheap wc tool for ages. Do u see skillers using iron axe to cut yews? silly! But they are used by macroers as they cannot risk such a stuff on this unreliable account

 

 

 

I agree the random event idea. But again, if you face a green dragon macroers, this cannot stop them as they don't face randoms in wildy. I suggest letting the macroer face such an event once he get back to Edgeville / Vaccock or wherever outside wildy

[caldius]

 

 

 

Make it so 1 computer can only play for a total of 24 hours a day.

 

 

 

Sounds stupid, but it will eliminate multi-logging autoers. Say an autoer has 10 accounts running on 1 computer.

 

 

 

After 2.4 hours of this, he gets kicked off runescape for the day.

 

 

 

This won't effect most people, since we don't multi log :)

 

 

 

Just thought of this now, btw.

 

 

 

This would work except for the fact that more then one child may be playing on that computer. Child A could consume a majority of the time and leave Child B and possiably Child C with little playing time

 

 

 

Well not really, there are only 24 hours in a day so you could have 1 account logged on all the time and it wouldnt be a problem, it only becomes as issure when you have more than one account logged on at the same time on the same computer

[ranger12146]

ok, first of all, this isnt my idea, it is off a friend of mine

 

 

 

introduce a random event that makes you enter warped letters, for example. they use them when you register to forums, and other websites.

 

 

 

and as the letters are random, the autoers cant continue with woodcutting, fishhing or other money making ways.

[Iamdan]

 

The 10 unforgiveable sins

 

(1) Selling many broken axe/ holding axe handle for unknown reasons (this actually happened several years ago and lead to numberous bans of macro users)

 

(2) Standing in front of a tree for hours

 

(3) Using some known gold farmer 'clan' as names (say, fcfc____ )

 

(4) Failing randoms many times, especially failing newly released random

 

(5) nothing but plenty of yew/lobsters/rune ess and cash in bank

 

(6) Log in for extremely long time (say, 12 hours or more)

 

(7) Moldified client (can be checked by different hashes, say MD5). If the client is checked to be modlified, and the farmer log on with a account, the account will be marked and investigated to see whether the change is caused by a virus or a deleberate change for cheating easily (for example, changing the colour of yew trees to be Red so that other trees will not be mistaken as yews)

 

(8) Don't talk anything

 

(9) Default clothings and silly armor (trainning sword? wodden shield?)

 

(10) Aah! I forgot this one - using a cheap wc tool for ages. Do u see skillers using iron axe to cut yews? silly! But they are used by macroers as they cannot risk such a stuff on this unreliable account

 

 

 

1. No it didn't.

 

2. Only the obvious macroers would do this.

 

4. Failing randoms already triggers more randoms, if they are still failed then account = flagged.

 

5. It would take up too much memory to check this

 

6. Already does

 

7. The server already checks for a modified client via a reflection method.

 

8. Already done

 

9. It might already be done, I'm not sure.

 

10. See 5

[meister14]

ok, first of all, this isnt my idea, it is off a friend of mine

 

 

 

introduce a random event that makes you enter warped letters, for example. they use them when you register to forums, and other websites.

 

 

 

and as the letters are random, the autoers cant continue with woodcutting, fishhing or other money making ways.

 

 

 

thats sorta how it was in rsc with sleeping bags.. for some reason JAGEX wont use that technique

[Wachtwoord]

Although very costly and trouble causing I like the random event idea. But I think there should be plenty of information about them, especially to warn the newer players. I'm talking about making a special advertisement for it, like they did with rule breaking, making it message of the week a couple of times, etc.