Brainstorming Session: Elminating autoers from coming back

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Undercover mods... you know you want them. :D

 

 

 

Jagex should make a new department in Jagex Towers that is devoted to downloading bot programs off the internet. This way they can break open the bot and figure out its problems and ways to stop it. But since most sites that offer autoing programs are just viruses they would be downloaded to a seperate server that you can only get into if you work in the department. This would keep a virus from getting into the real important RS servers and destroying them from within (obviously a bad thing...).

 

 

 

This would be costly but it would save the game in the long run.

 

 

 

Undercover moderators, eh? I don't like that idea since it could only lead to more gullible and legit players thinking that Jagex mods are actually undercover. This would lead to a series of unpleasant events that are just not worth the headache.

 

 

 

The easy thing to remember about programs such as autominers and bots are that they are indeed viruses, but the thing you need not worry about is such. To add the department that would actually only consist of decompiling autoers and adding blocks to them sounds honestly like it would be too costly.

[Iamdan]

 

These random events need not be complex. They can be as simple as a pop-up window asking about item types. That keeps it simple and fairly convenient for the normal players.

 

 

 

Then they will be even more simple and convenient for macroers.

 

If jagex makes their randoms like that, they will have some sort of constant.

 

EG:

 

(10 items)

 

"Which item is (odd one out/blue/square/on the left etc)

 

 

 

Then a anti random is easy to make with case statements for each of the variables.

 

 

 

Like I said, this random event (emphasis on random here;the macroer has no way of knowing when it will strike)

 

 

 

It won't know when it will strike, but It will know once it has the random.

 

 

 

would lock the player's ability to log out.

 

 

 

You never said that before. Anyway, the macro would just force quit, then kill the bot. Then as I said before, the person would log in on each account and finish the random. The account macroing at the time of the random wouldn't get banned for a week or so, and the rest of them are safe.

 

 

 

Between a macroing PC and a real, player-controlled PC, there would be a significant difference in the time it would take for the random to be solved. This in itself could be an indicator.

 

 

 

I have said this a few times on these forums, anything a player can do, a program can do better.

 

 

 

The macro would use random waits so it would solve the random in around the same time as a human would.

 

 

 

Additionally, a random being solved simultaneously on all of a macroer's accounts through a specific set of input commands would be extremely easy to detect.

 

 

 

If they are being solved simultaneously, then they are multi logging on a client hacked macro. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So if the accounts all solve the random simultaniously, and chooses not to use random pauses and clicks etc, (which they will) the the account won't get banned any faster because Jagex already knows it is a macro because it is on a modified client.

 

 

 

If they are not using a client hacked macro and are running on a rotation of accounts, then then the macro will have a lot of emphasis on undetectability. This includes different paths to do something, random waits, misclicks and rotations etc. Jagex won't see any similarities.

[Made0f12une]

would lock the player's ability to log out.

 

 

 

You never said that before. Anyway, the macro would just force quit, then kill the bot. Then as I said before, the person would log in on each account and finish the random. The account macroing at the time of the random wouldn't get banned for a week or so, and the rest of them are safe.

 

 

 

Well if the marco/bot would force quit and kill the bot then that would leave the account trapped online and virtually inaccessible to the owner of the account. Yes this would ultimately flood the severs, but Jagex could easily wipe them off the map.

 

 

 

I've read through (or at least attempted to read through) all of the suggestions to date in this thread, and it seems that they follow the same schema of random event, skill requirement, random event. Unfortunately, these effects would also be global us all players, and I don't know about you, but I'm really tired of seeing the Sandwich Lady. If they don't make her an attackable NPC then I don't want to see her ever again.

 

 

 

I digress. I propose a handful of suggestions that could potentially bring a stop to autoers globally.

 

 

 

The first suggestion comes as a major stave off in regards to Members, with its own set of bonuses and caveats:

 

 

 

Impose an ingame requirement of either total time ingame (either 40-160 hours or 30 days ingame) or total level skill (200-450), before being granted permission to join members.

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]Right off the bat, numerous level 3s would not be permitted to collect the bulk of members' resources due to them not immediately meeting the requirement of becoming a member.

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]This could very well hamper skill pures to the degree of not even being able to come over to members.
   
  [*:2ku37w5e]It could also hamper pures from other players (with higher leveled accounts) from granting their pures membership.
   
  [*:2ku37w5e]Legitimate level 3 players or players that don't feel like dealing with freeplay would be left in the dust.
   
  [*:2ku37w5e]Major revenue drop for Jagex, they'd be less inclined to consider this.

 

 

 

Realizing that the above suggestion wouldn't be a quick fix (more like a matter that would be fiercely debated within the Rants sections of the RSOF and what-not), but it could very well be a solution without having to add new randoms.

 

 

 

The next suggestion is this:

 

 

 

Place extra quest requirements in certain resource-gathering areas of freeplay to reduce their accessibility.

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]A sharp drop in certain resource gathering spots would be noted, i.e. Yews, Lobsters, etc.

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]Wouldn't truly affect Runecrafting due to a quest requirement already in place.

 

 

 

Certain skillers on freeplay would also notice a limit of gathering resources as well, and that could very well be a con.

 

 

 

My final suggestion is aimed strictly at mining:

 

 

 

Require an equivalent smithing level to mine a particular rock (when you can smith Steel, would also be when you could mine Coal), OR require at least that Knights' Sword and Doric's Quest be completed to mine coal and above. For Runecrafting, impose a certain Runecrafting level to be permitted to mine essence at (for instance, permit only enough essence to be mined to level to a certain point on freeplay) This level cap would increase as time passed.

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]It would force players to have the skill of working with the material that they are actually harvesting.

 

 

 

Cons:

 

 

 

• [*:2ku37w5e]May hinder legitimate players from leveling Smithing in an effective manner.

 

 

 

Well there you have it. I don't think that these suggestions would be a quick fix, nor do I think that it could be done at the drop of the hat. What others must also realize is that this 'battle' against autoers is not nearly as clairvoyant as it seems on the surface; there are many needless levels of complication, legal issues and socio-economical barriers that must be overcome (there IS a reason that people in 3rd world countries do this...it's to put food on the table).

 

 

 

I like the ideas, I'll add them to the front page

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't read through the topic completely, so I'm not sure if this was submitted, but I was just randomly thinking today for an excellent idea to stop autoers from even signing up.

 

 

 

The CAPTCHA system, which is a randomly generated image on sign-up where the user is asked to confirm the letters/numbers in the image could be added to the RS make account section. This wouldn't completely get rid of autoers, but cut off any use of the auto-make-account problem.

 

 

 

Sounds interesting. I'll make a new area on the first page for this

[JoshThaGod]

one thing i always thought was, why would jagex want to ban people they are making money off of? i really hope they would tho (talkin about members autoers)

[Iamdan]

Well if the marco/bot would force quit and kill the bot then that would leave the account trapped online and virtually inaccessible to the owner of the account.

 

 

 

Yeah, for 60 seconds

[ikraz66]

There's only one solution with no loopholes. We need to track down the people who make the autoers, and lock them up :twisted: . Of course this would be tricky, as there's probably hundreds of them, and they aren't technically breaking any laws. Also, they could escape occasionally. :roll:

 

Oh well, no solution is perfect...

[soxman45]

Various other Suggestions

 

The CAPTCHA system, which is a randomly generated image on sign-up where the user is asked to confirm the letters/numbers in the image could be added to the RS make account section. This wouldn't completely get rid of autoers, but cut off any use of the auto-make-account problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, this I could see working. Having little Cons and tons of Pros. Maybe a pop-up in game once a month too?

[aquariusman]

If there is a sure-fire way of getting rid of an incredible amount of autoers, however there is a backlash on the legit players, use it. While the backlash will be complained and whined over, the absence of autoers will be very much worth it. Unless this way is something drastic like removing yews, don't use it. However if it's just like putting the accounts per IP cap on, use it.

[superson]

Make it so 1 computer can only play for a total of 24 hours a day.

 

 

 

Sounds stupid, but it will eliminate multi-logging autoers. Say an autoer has 10 accounts running on 1 computer.

 

 

 

After 2.4 hours of this, he gets kicked off runescape for the day.

 

 

 

This won't effect most people, since we don't multi log :)

 

 

 

Just thought of this now, btw.

 

 

 

This would work except for the fact that more then one child may be playing on that computer. Child A could consume a majority of the time and leave Child B and possiably Child C with little playing time

 

 

 

I don't understand what your logic is, but I still don't think that any number of people can play for more then 24 hours a day on 1 computer without multi-logging..

[Crunchbag]

My opinion now is that the problem is getting so bad that JaGEx is going to have to take some some serious, and no doubt unpopular, actions. Unless they come up with something radically different, new randoms aren't going to do much and they seem to be doing everything realistically possible to catch realworld traders without a massive amount of success. my feeling is that more should be done to make autoing harder. Things such as increasing the power and wander zone of muggers and the jail guards as well as removing the time limit for aggression in shops. Basically, even if it doesn't stop autoers it could severely slow them down, possibly making it unprofitable for them to operate in members. I will be surprised if lvl 3 skillers don't come into this but I feel stopping autoers is more important.

[Screechingmu]

I think that whatever rules and regulations are imposed to stop the autoers, there will always be more due to supply and demand. The rule breakers who buy rs gp are what drive the autoers and the creation of them. If somehow Jagex can eliminate the demand (or a large part of it), then the autoers would supposedly die down to a very small amount. Now im not sure how that could entirely happen, but if anyone else here has any ideas (Since there is brainstorming in the title :oops: ) This could be discussed further.

[x1992x]

i think of ektremly good idea :

 

 

 

i think JAGEX know where macroes spot is. i think they should set up a camera type of thing=D like 5 spot in rs. then every jagex worker have a little screen that watches the areas in a world. they can see the bots and ban them on the spot! may recuire some efforts. but its runescape economy that is on the tamble. so i think its worth its. vary trust wortyh mod could get 1 screen thingy to watch a spot. so the j mod dont have so much work=D the player mods could ban em' in 1 second.

 

 

 

good idea i think.

 

 

 

please give some respond ty :D

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

 

These random events need not be complex. They can be as simple as a pop-up window asking about item types. That keeps it simple and fairly convenient for the normal players.

 

 

 

Then they will be even more simple and convenient for macroers.

 

If jagex makes their randoms like that, they will have some sort of constant.

 

EG:

 

(10 items)

 

"Which item is (odd one out/blue/square/on the left etc)

 

 

 

Then a anti random is easy to make with case statements for each of the variables.

 

 

 

Well obviously the layout is not always going to be the same. The point is to keep the event simple but differ it significantly enough that an algorithm used to solve the previous could not be used to solve the next using simple substitutions in the code.

 

 

 

Like I said, this random event (emphasis on random here;the macroer has no way of knowing when it will strike)

 

 

 

It won't know when it will strike, but It will know once it has the random.

 

 

 

It may know when it has the random, which leaves it with three options: Disconnect, attempt to solve, or switch to manual control. It cannot do the first without risking detection; it cannot do the second because it does not know how; and it may have time to switch control over to the owner- but by the time the owner finishes it, he will only have saved a handful of his accounts.

 

 

 

would lock the player's ability to log out.

 

 

 

You never said that before. Anyway, the macro would just force quit, then kill the bot. Then as I said before, the person would log in on each account and finish the random. The account macroing at the time of the random wouldn't get banned for a week or so, and the rest of them are safe.

 

 

 

I doubt most legitimate players have a reason to disconnect as soon as an unfamiliar random event pops up. Very obvious activity. And even if the action is classified as a connection timeout, it would still be logged as such during issuance of the random.

 

 

 

Between a macroing PC and a real, player-controlled PC, there would be a significant difference in the time it would take for the random to be solved. This in itself could be an indicator.

 

 

 

I have said this a few times on these forums, anything a player can do, a program can do better.

 

 

 

The macro would use random waits so it would solve the random in around the same time as a human would.

 

 

 

Unfamiliar random = marked duration of inactivity

 

 

 

Additionally, a random being solved simultaneously on all of a macroer's accounts through a specific set of input commands would be extremely easy to detect.

 

 

 

If they are being solved simultaneously, then they are multi logging on a client hacked macro. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So if the accounts all solve the random simultaniously, and chooses not to use random pauses and clicks etc, (which they will) the the account won't get banned any faster because Jagex already knows it is a macro because it is on a modified client.

 

 

 

If they are not using a client hacked macro and are running on a rotation of accounts, then then the macro will have a lot of emphasis on undetectability. This includes different paths to do something, random waits, misclicks and rotations etc. Jagex won't see any similarities.

 

 

 

This is precisely why I think this could work: Who would have time to code solutions (let alone undetectability) when they have no idea what is on the horizon or when it will be issued? And if they have to solve the random in less than two minutes, would they have time to code a solution algorithm with undetectability?

 

 

 

Now, you did mention the macroer rotating accounts if he lost a group. This is why a weekly check is necessary: it has cumulative effects. Even if they have hundreds of accounts lined up, they will all eventually be disabled. If the macroer creates new accounts, they will not be useful for some time and will still be caught by new random events every single week. The problem lies in that 60 woodcutting, 30 mining, et cetera- are attainable in less than a day of continuous playing, while this random event is issued three times a week on a random day. I never said this system was perfect, but I certainly do think it would help

 

 

 

As an alternative, I have a second proposal: Use the same profiling system as before, only reports will be sent when players reach "milestone" levels or amounts of resources rather than on the failure to solve a random event. Something like this:

 

 

 

...a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier.

[pulli23]

funny, how you didn't address the only real solution!

 

 

 

all the solution you made above are just ways to make it more difficult. But once it is figured out how to by-pass them, they will be by passed.. and the autoers will return, so it would only make a slight delay of some days (maybe weeks) in which there are few autoers.

 

 

 

However if anyone wants to create a solution for a problem, they should know WHY that problem is there! - And then address the root of the problem! What runescape, and everybody here currently try to do. Is comparable with using "analgesic" as a cure, you only "cover" the problem - but once it will return!

 

 

 

Now what is the main problem? I think unlike others (JAGEX) that the main "root" of the problem with autoers, doesn't has anything to do with "people who want to buy stuff with real life money", well maybe a little bit, but the root is much more in the core of the game! (I think selling stuff offline shouldn't be a problem... but that's another story).

 

It's the game itself which produces these "problems", I think. Let's follow this trail:

 

why do autoers exist? -> to make money in real life! How do they make money? -> by selling runescape gold! How do they make gp? -> by utilizing certain skills!

 

So we need to prevent autoers from being able to utilize any skill! Now rises the question: why do they utilize certain skills?

 

 

 

and there are 2 "answers" on it, which are both connected in some way:

 

 

 

first of all, a skill is "profitable" - meaning it earns gp! Now why are they so profitable? - it's because nobody wants to do it! either it's very dull work (wcing, fishing), or does give very bad experience (flax and various other picking, buying in shops).

 

 

 

secondly a skill needs to be "macroable".. It needs to be able to be "caught" in a set of (simple) commands. Being an AI programmer myself I believe that in the end everything is "macroable" - I think a good "robot" should be able to do just like humans can (and maybe even "learn"). But that's for the future, and would require too much processor memory. Currently the runescape autoers are just simple bots which can only do a selected set of commands! - This is why autoers tend to choose for skills with as little commands as possible (fishing?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now how to solve the auto problem?

 

The only way I think autoers can be solved is the remove 1 of the above reasons the autoers won't exists anymore...

 

 

 

The first reason, can I think only be solved by stopping "trading" between acounts.. Or at least stop "gold" from existing.. If any skill was like agility, there would be no gain in buying certain stuff and autoers won't make GP which they can sell. However since money is the underlying motive for most people to play runescape I think this is a very bad idea..

 

 

 

The other reason was the "easiness" of certain skills. Well why are those skills (fishing, woodcutting, mining, flax picking) able to be autoed? - It's because they're so easy, and repetitive! The human mind is good in finding new things, however it is beaten by computers when doing repetitive things! So the only way to make skills less macroable is to make it less repetitive!

 

Now how is this possible? Good question, I myself haven't found the solution for this completely yet. Since being able to do everything once wouldn't be good for the replay value and would cause JAGEX customers. The only thing I can think which makes a skill non-repetitive is making it more, way more, player versus player! So that players have to compete with each other. If this is the case the other players will prevent repetitive things from happening.

 

Examples where this is the case are abbys runecrafting (the pkers are the "opponents" of the crafters), and mining (where miners are each other opponent when fighting for an ore). Autoers can't keep up with this because they miss real intelligence and they will keep doing the same tactic, but human players will find ways to prevent autoers from getting the stuff then, and I think this will eliminate the autoer problem...

 

 

 

So to conclude (sorry that it's a bit hard reading, but I'm not very good in writing english essays):

 

I think the only way to prevent autoers from existing is to prevent the root from existing.. And that are the repetive tasks in runescape. And I think these tasks can be removed by creating more player versus player in the skills!

 

 

 

NOt by creating stupid randoms, or some IP restriction system, they can be by-passed very easily.. And well for storing something on a PC: if you've ever went into multiplayer programming you should always follow this rule: the users pc = evil! they can (and may(!) ) do everything on their pc and they will hack any file on the pc. So far runescape has done a great job by processing everything on their servers though!

[snake6man]

i think what jagex should do is make it so that trees, ores, fishing spots and everything dont grow back/apear again in the same place... the place that it would grow back would be so random that it would be basicly impossible to make an autoer for it. the skillers would easily be able to see where the trees grew back (or any other person hoo played rs for fun).

 

 

 

the only bad thing is that it would make it harder for people to find the tree first, but it wouldnt be too much harder... and it would be worth getting rid of the vast majority of autoers. and it kinda makes since... trees normaly dont grow back in the exact same place irl, but yea.

 

 

 

this would be easily aplyed to woodcutting, but it could be aplyed to combat (the monster respons in a different place everytime), mining (the ore apears in different spots everytime), prayer (if you berry too many bones in the ground in one spot you have to move to a different spot to berry the rest), and many more things.

 

 

 

i cant think of any ways to make an autoer work for those situations... can anyone else?

[pulli23]

i think what jagex should do is make it so that trees, ores, fishing spots and everything dont grow back/apear again in the same place... the place that it would grow back would be so random that it would be basicly impossible to make an autoer for it. the skillers would easily be able to see where the trees grew back (or any other person hoo played rs for fun).

 

 

 

the only bad thing is that it would make it harder for people to find the tree first, but it wouldnt be too much harder... and it would be worth getting rid of the vast majority of autoers. and it kinda makes since... trees normaly dont grow back in the exact same place irl, but yea.

 

 

 

this would be easily aplyed to woodcutting, but it could be aplyed to combat (the monster respons in a different place everytime), mining (the ore apears in different spots everytime), prayer (if you berry too many bones in the ground in one spot you have to move to a different spot to berry the rest), and many more things.

 

 

 

i cant think of any ways to make an autoer work for those situations... can anyone else?

 

 

 

 

 

this would work... for some time..

 

 

 

However like I mentioned in my previous post, this isn't really "not repetitive".. Such an ore spawn can be "seen"/prosseced by an autoer just as easy as it can be by a human player.

 

 

 

The only thing where a human mind beat a computer mind, and this is what we're talking about when trying to defeat autoers. Is at (rapid) evolving areas! and currently the only thing I can think of which is really "new" is letting "other" players compete for it too, as those other players will evolve to become better, but the autoers won't and this will cause the autoers to get less and less good....

 

 

 

Another thing is to completely rewind the runescape engine! I've been thinking of making it so that the xp you earn/ore would reduce if you do longer time the same ores. This would prevent autoers from growing very fast since they are spefically made to do 1 thing others hate to do!

[snake6man]

 

this would work... for some time..

 

 

 

However like I mentioned in my previous post, this isn't really "not repetitive".. Such an ore spawn can be "seen"/prosseced by an autoer just as easy as it can be by a human player.

 

 

 

The only thing where a human mind beat a computer mind, and this is what we're talking about when trying to defeat autoers. Is at (rapid) evolving areas! and currently the only thing I can think of which is really "new" is letting "other" players compete for it too, as those other players will evolve to become better, but the autoers won't and this will cause the autoers to get less and less good....

 

 

 

Another thing is to completely rewind the runescape engine! I've been thinking of making it so that the xp you earn/ore would reduce if you do longer time the same ores. This would prevent autoers from growing very fast since they are spefically made to do 1 thing others hate to do!

 

 

 

well if an autoer "prosesed" the information to see where the ore was, isnt that color idetification or something? meaning it will always click on a certian color. if that was the case, then jagex could invert the color of everything in runescape on a random day in the week, making autoers easy to detect. they would start randomly clicking on everywhere exept the ore, which normal players wouldnt do. the normal players would see that the colors were inverted and could click on the ore with no problem.

[Jeda45]

MY idea:

 

have skills "fight back"

 

Tuna/Swordies/Sharks might attack you while fishing.

 

Trees could have branches fall on you

 

Rochs could fly into the air and hit you while mining!

 

There could be a sound right before something happening

 

e.g.

 

right before a branch hits you, there's a creaking noise.

[Iamdan]

Well obviously the layout is not always going to be the same. The point is to keep the event simple but differ it significantly enough that an algorithm used to solve the previous could not be used to solve the next using simple substitutions in the code.

 

 

 

Then Jagex will not do it, because they will run out of ideas. If they only do 15 or so and rotate them, then it will be no different to the other randoms - people will make anti randoms.

 

 

 

It may know when it has the random, which leaves it with three options: Disconnect, attempt to solve, or switch to manual control. It cannot do the first without risking detection; it cannot do the second because it does not know how; and it may have time to switch control over to the owner- but by the time the owner finishes it, he will only have saved a handful of his accounts.

 

 

 

We seem to be arguing about 2 different types of macros. I will specify which type and you do the same.

 

 

 

For client hacked macros, (the type that multi-log) even if they all fail the random, they will not be banned any faster. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So when the account logs in, Jagex knows it is a macro - before the random hits.

 

 

 

(In bugs and suggestions, see my thread entitled "Real way to stop macroers, won't affect game play" for more information.)

 

 

 

In the case of a colour clicker, the type that runs on a rotation of accounts, the first account (the one logged in when the random occurs) will get banned when Jagex gets around to it - probably another week. The others will not log in because the bot is killed, so they are safe.

 

 

 

The macroer will log in on each of them and solve the random manually, then they are safe for another week.

 

 

 

I doubt most legitimate players have a reason to disconnect as soon as an unfamiliar random event pops up. Very obvious activity. And even if the action is classified as a connection timeout, it would still be logged as such during issuance of the random.

 

As I said before, Jagex will already know the account is macroing in the case of a client hacked macro. In the case of a colour clicker, the account will get banned in a week or so when Jagex gets around to it and the rest are safe.

 

 

 

Unfamiliar random = marked duration of inactivity

 

It will take a matter of a couple seconds for the macro to realize it has the random, and inactivity for a couple seconds is not something to look for when detecting macroers.

 

 

 

This is precisely why I think this could work: Who would have time to code solutions (let alone undetectability) when they have no idea what is on the horizon or when it will be issued? And if they have to solve the random in less than two minutes, would they have time to code a solution algorithm with undetectability?

 

 

 

All they have to do is write down a few colours and co-ordinates, compare them to other cheaters and make the anti random. In the case of a client hacked macro, they just have to take down id's. Then just hand it out and get feedback and smooth out bugs. Anti random = done.

 

 

 

As an alternative, I have a second proposal: Use the same profiling system as before, only reports will be sent when players reach "milestone" levels or amounts of resources rather than on the failure to solve a random event. Something like this:

 

 

 

...a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier.

 

 

 

Jagex can't keep track of every bank, it would take up way too much memory. The players in default clothing aren't macroers they are sweatshop workers, which also rules out the sub combat 20 check.

 

 

 

Colour clicker macros (the ones which Jagex does not detect on login) do not concentrate on a couple skills, they generally level up everything evenly.

 

 

 

That idea will not work either.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

Well obviously the layout is not always going to be the same. The point is to keep the event simple but differ it significantly enough that an algorithm used to solve the previous could not be used to solve the next using simple substitutions in the code.

 

 

 

Then Jagex will not do it, because they will run out of ideas. If they only do 15 or so and rotate them, then it will be no different to the other randoms - people will make anti randoms.

 

 

 

I really can't say how much creative energy JaGeX would have in this direction, so I'll assume you're right.

 

 

 

It may know when it has the random, which leaves it with three options: Disconnect, attempt to solve, or switch to manual control. It cannot do the first without risking detection; it cannot do the second because it does not know how; and it may have time to switch control over to the owner- but by the time the owner finishes it, he will only have saved a handful of his accounts.

 

 

 

We seem to be arguing about 2 different types of macros. I will specify which type and you do the same.

 

 

 

For client hacked macros, (the type that multi-log) even if they all fail the random, they will not be banned any faster. Jagex has a reflection system which lets them know when somebody logs into a modified client. So when the account logs in, Jagex knows it is a macro - before the random hits.

 

 

 

(In bugs and suggestions, see my thread entitled "Real way to stop macroers, won't affect game play" for more information.)

 

 

 

In the case of a colour clicker, the type that runs on a rotation of accounts, the first account (the one logged in when the random occurs) will get banned when Jagex gets around to it - probably another week. The others will not log in because the bot is killed, so they are safe.

 

 

 

The macroer will log in on each of them and solve the random manually, then they are safe for another week.

 

 

 

I doubt most legitimate players have a reason to disconnect as soon as an unfamiliar random event pops up. Very obvious activity. And even if the action is classified as a connection timeout, it would still be logged as such during issuance of the random.

 

As I said before, Jagex will already know the account is macroing in the case of a client hacked macro. In the case of a colour clicker, the account will get banned in a week or so when Jagex gets around to it and the rest are safe.

 

 

 

I'm dealing primarily with colour clickers. Like you said, macroers have reserves. But these reserves are bound to run out sooner or later: the question is whether JaGeX's creativity or the macroer's patience runs out first. And what if the random were issued at a time during which the owner would be asleep? This is why I proposed a three-times-daily issuance. Granted, they could (and probably would) attempt to write an anti-random if one of them caught the bot owner during a waking hour, but I think it unlikely that they would be consistently successful. Remember- it doesn't need to be a 100% success rate: it just needs to make problems that are too frustrating or not worth solving for most macroers.

 

 

 

Unfamiliar random = marked duration of inactivity

 

It will take a matter of a couple seconds for the macro to realize it has the random, and inactivity for a couple seconds is not something to look for when detecting macroers.

 

It will take the macro a couple seconds to realize, but how long will it take for it to solve something it cannot solve? They're at a crossroads with no way out unless the owner steps in and solves the random.

 

 

 

This is precisely why I think this could work: Who would have time to code solutions (let alone undetectability) when they have no idea what is on the horizon or when it will be issued? And if they have to solve the random in less than two minutes, would they have time to code a solution algorithm with undetectability?

 

 

 

All they have to do is write down a few colours and co-ordinates, compare them to other cheaters and make the anti random. In the case of a client hacked macro, they just have to take down id's. Then just hand it out and get feedback and smooth out bugs. Anti random = done.

 

 

 

Will they really have the motivation if their work is outdated every week?

 

 

 

As an alternative, I have a second proposal: Use the same profiling system as before, only reports will be sent when players reach "milestone" levels or amounts of resources rather than on the failure to solve a random event. Something like this:

 

 

 

...a flag is sent up to JaGeX along with information on the player's name, stats, bank, held items, and default clothes. Certain combinations should result in an automatic ban (such as level 3 with high woodcutting, default skin, 3k+ yews in bank) while others could result in as little as teleporting the player (for instance, level 50 with no significant banked items and low stats will be sent to the wizard tower for no particular reason).

 

 

 

Ban suggestions will be sorted by priority: Banked items, low combat level (20-) and skill level concentrations (such as 10- stats in all skills but woodcutting) take the topmost tier.

 

 

 

Jagex can't keep track of every bank, it would take up way too much memory. The players in default clothing aren't macroers they are sweatshop workers, which also rules out the sub combat 20 check.

 

 

 

Colour clicker macros (the ones which Jagex does not detect on login) do not concentrate on a couple skills, they generally level up everything evenly.

 

 

 

That idea will not work either.

 

 

 

These are only examples of certain combinations of suspicious characteristics. There are probably much better formulas that will fit most color clickers and goldfarmers ("sweatshop workers" as some like to call them are still engaged in activities against the rules and therefore should also be picked up by this system). I am quite sure JaGeX has the resources at their disposal to find these combinations. As for the memory issue, I think that could be solved by making character examination client-side. Bad combination? Send a flag. Modified client? Already flagged.

[baalboy5]

you all need to realize that people(players) wanted materials to much and was to lazy to get them. THAT how macros and autoers were made. If we put our foot down and just told youself ' I need the xp, for (skill) so I go get it' I do my fair share of buying from macros and I know you all do

 

 

 

I mean yeah we hate em but without them we be in too much demand but that isn't our flaut. If jagex made the materials easier to get then we would get them and the autoers would too but the ONE person that is like ' I'll get these logs thank you very much' that be 1 less buyer or 1 less macro(at least)

 

 

 

And yeah I want them gone because their just tooo many I mean their sooo many that the autoer isn't even gettin a profiett because their 9 other macros at the same tree

[Anthony8150]

Like Pulli said, we need non-repetitive skills, throw some PvP in there, or better, make it a team effort.

 

 

 

Have you ever seen that show deadliest catch? Imagine if runescape fishing were like that :shock:

 

 

 

Or at least make the skills fun even if they are repetitive, then people won't be so bored doing the skills --> less autoers.

[Made0f12une]

Like Pulli said, we need non-repetitive skills, throw some PvP in there, or better, make it a team effort.

 

 

 

Have you ever seen that show deadliest catch? Imagine if runescape fishing were like that :shock:

 

 

 

Or at least make the skills fun even if they are repetitive, then people won't be so bored doing the skills --> less autoers.

 

 

 

Team skills would fall under the class of Minigames. Trouble Brewing, Gnome Deleverivy Service, Blast furnace, Trawler, Etc. Trawler is a middle age replica of The Deadliest Catch

[Iamdan]

I'm dealing primarily with colour clickers. Like you said, macroers have reserves. But these reserves are bound to run out sooner or later: the question is whether JaGeX's creativity or the macroer's patience runs out first. And what if the random were issued at a time during which the owner would be asleep? This is why I proposed a three-times-daily issuance. Granted, they could (and probably would) attempt to write an anti-random if one of them caught the bot owner during a waking hour, but I think it unlikely that they would be consistently successful. Remember- it doesn't need to be a 100% success rate: it just needs to make problems that are too frustrating or not worth solving for most macroers.

 

 

 

If they run on a rotation of randoms, there are plenty of macroers willing to help make anti randoms. Want me to go to a few cheating communities and pull out a few numbers of registered members?

 

 

 

Forum Stats 17415899 Posts in 94692 Topics by 146701 Members

 

 

 

^^ That is a very public forum, has a lot of idiots but has a decent number of dedicated macroers too.

 

 

 

Total posts 55121 Total topics 5171 Total members 773

 

 

 

^^ That is a more private forum which now only lets in the best coders. Only about 100 of those 700 members are active.

 

 

 

Members: 22,269

 

Threads: 12,753

 

Posts: 142,494

 

 

 

^^ That is a forum which is dedicated to 1 specific colour clicker.

 

 

 

As you can see there are many people who would help update macroers to solve these randoms, only happening 3 times a day won't be a problem for them.

 

 

 

These reserves which will run out sooner or later will often be later rather than sooner, many of them have 50+ accounts on rotation and more are being made every day. The colour clickers are the ones that rarely get banned.

 

 

 

It will take the macro a couple seconds to realize, but how long will it take for it to solve something it cannot solve? They're at a crossroads with no way out unless the owner steps in and solves the random.

 

They could still kill the bot, and solve the random manually (at the same time collecting data for the anti random) later.

 

 

 

Will they really have the motivation if their work is outdated every week?

 

 

 

A lot won't, but a lot will.

 

 

 

These are only examples of certain combinations of suspicious characteristics. There are probably much better formulas that will fit most color clickers and goldfarmers ("sweatshop workers" as some like to call them are still engaged in activities against the rules and therefore should also be picked up by this system). I am quite sure JaGeX has the resources at their disposal to find these combinations. As for the memory issue, I think that could be solved by making character examination client-side. Bad combination? Send a flag. Modified client? Already flagged.

 

 

 

Sweatshop workers will be easy to detect, but the colour clickers won't be. If Jagex did have the resources at their disposal they would be using them.

 

Perhaps they have something planned with the game engine update, I don't know because I haven't looked in the client or talked to anybody who has.

 

 

 

Colour clickers can be made to read packets, (I think with bcel) but still not edit the client. (So Jagex cannot detect it) So the macro can be made to automatically know what to avoid doing.

[MidnightHarvester]

Jagex can already use API to scan and see what other processes are running at the same time as Runecape. What they need are dedicated players with a keen eye towards research to provide them the names of executables that are running in regards to programs that sniff packets etc etc.

 

 

 

I am sure (as being Microsoft Certified and a programmer) this is what they use at the moment to determine from reports on who is actually using third party programs to assist in their leveling, profiting, whatever.

 

 

 

They just need to be updated constantly by us the players who can get ahold of such information as to what executables to look out for and THEY need to actively scan for such programs and not just wait until somebody makes a report and be a bit more proactive.

 

 

 

As far as gold farmers, that's a tough one to crack. Until WE as a whole stop buying from them (which is often hard because who is a gold farmer, right?) then the problem there will persist. I just wonder how many of these sites advertising gold for real money actually are sites set up by Jagex.

 

 

 

I would never chance it and personally if you need to spend real cash for for an item then the point of the game is wasted on you to begin with. The hard work and time put in means more then just being able to walk around showing off an item you bought with mommy's allowance she gave you.