Seek God in need...

[homegirl911911999]

I do pray for people. But a lot of times i try not to worry cause God knows whats gonna happen and my praying it will help me but is not gonna change what happens. i am not saying you shouldn't pray though.

[nicrune007]

Miracles don't exist, there is a scientific explanation for everything.

 

 

I totally agree with you on this...

 

Take for example Luck... its just an random coincidence on something that no ones knows why and they just call it luck.

 

Oh what am i talking about, if it makes sense to you guys

[highlanders]

Miracles don't exist, there is a scientific explanation for everything.

 

 

I totally agree with you on this...

 

Take for example Luck... its just an random coincidence on something that no ones knows why and they just call it luck.

 

Oh what am i talking about, if it makes sense to you guys

 

You sabotaged yourself :P

[TotalTalker]

Besides, if there really IS some invisible guy, who let the world become this awful, the guy who watches you in the shower, do you really want to ask HIM for help?

 

 

 

He isnt going to be watching you all the while, he is there for when you need him (well thats whats I think)

 

 

 

He wont watch you in the shower, if anything then that would be your guardian angel, looking after you everywhere.

 

 

 

And even is jesus did watch you in the shower, he created the body anyway :roll:

[Zealot]

 

Hey guys,

 

 

 

When your in need of a miracle, say if you've got no-one else to turn to, do you look to God?

 

 

 

Say if you know something more of less isnt going to happen, do you sit by yourself, and say a prayer to God? Wishing that the miracle will come?

 

 

 

Share your comments, past experiences, and reasons please.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Meh... I ask, but it doesn't really matter to me that much usually. I have confidence that HIS plan is best. Besides, if I'm in trouble because I didn't study, why should I expect HIM to bail me out? If I'm in trouble for no particular reason, I'm a little more prone to ask for help.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I talk with HIM all the time... But HE's my friend, not my genie in a bottle, there to grant my every desire.

 

 

 

On another note, I guess that I do pray rather regularly for others when I am aware of a need... I just don't believe that God should be my good luck charm. If HE wants to give me good things now, I'll accept them gladly. If HE wants to give me hardship and beat me with a hammer, I'm HIS, and I know that even though it hurts, HE is forming me into a tool that will be of great use to HIM. That's enough for me to know. HIS choice, not mine.

[TotalTalker]

Does anyone feel a presence when speaking to God?

[fakeitormakeit]

 

Meh... I ask, but it doesn't really matter to me that much usually. I have confidence that HIS plan is best. Besides, if I'm in trouble because I didn't study, why should I expect HIM to bail me out? If I'm in trouble for no particular reason, I'm a little more prone to ask for help.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I talk with HIM all the time... But HE's my friend, not my genie in a bottle, there to grant my every desire.

 

 

 

On another note, I guess that I do pray rather regularly for others when I am aware of a need... I just don't believe that God should be my good luck charm. If HE wants to give me good things now, I'll accept them gladly. If HE wants to give me hardship and beat me with a hammer, I'm HIS, and I know that even though it hurts, HE is forming me into a tool that will be of great use to HIM. That's enough for me to know. HIS choice, not mine.

 

 

 

This guy is brillant(no sarcasm). I agree with you 100%...make that 99% cause you don't have a meork related item in your sig.

[highlanders]

 

Meh... I ask, but it doesn't really matter to me that much usually. I have confidence that HIS plan is best. Besides, if I'm in trouble because I didn't study, why should I expect HIM to bail me out? If I'm in trouble for no particular reason, I'm a little more prone to ask for help.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I talk with HIM all the time... But HE's my friend, not my genie in a bottle, there to grant my every desire.

 

 

 

On another note, I guess that I do pray rather regularly for others when I am aware of a need... I just don't believe that God should be my good luck charm. If HE wants to give me good things now, I'll accept them gladly. If HE wants to give me hardship and beat me with a hammer, I'm HIS, and I know that even though it hurts, HE is forming me into a tool that will be of great use to HIM. That's enough for me to know. HIS choice, not mine.

 

 

 

This guy is brillant(no sarcasm). I agree with you 100%...make that 99% cause you don't have a meork related item in your sig.

 

 

 

God is not your master. Your not an object of his possession. Many people feel frustrated thinking God is superior to them, and that makes them angry. No doubt, it doesn't feel right, because it's not true. You are part of god, god is the universe, the conscious of all the souls that are a part of god creates what we call god. See it as a parent-child relation. The parent is very wise, but the children will grow and become as wise or even wiser than the parent. You really don't understand anything about god if you think someone as him would consider you as a mere possession. Stop listening to the catholic religion please, they don't have any of the answers .

 

 

 

Saying that what happens to you is the result of some divine power's choosing is taking away from you the merit of your own actions. The truth is you must learn to be your own god, like a child that grows you must learn to assume the role of the parent, and look after yourself. There is no savior, only ill-minded people who will take advantage of your inaction.

[Defender2516]

I believe some people say no because they think they will look cool in front of everyone else or perhaps they think its a sign of weakness.

 

 

 

We are born to lean at times, our strength can only go so far.

 

 

 

I do pray to God in need and sometimes when I don't need.

 

 

 

What does it hurt? Honestly.. what does it hurt?

 

 

 

~Defender~

[Mercifull]

I have never prayed in times of great need. Sometimes the outcome is good, others not so. God intervention has nothing to do with it.

[The Dark Lord]

Well I was agnostic for a while, but I'm coming back to Christianity.

 

 

 

Well, I do pray. I never EXPECT something to happen. Even if it doesn't happen, I don't go around shouting God doesn't exist.

 

 

 

Overall, I do it so I can 'pour my heart out' and it makes me feel better.

[Defender2516]

I have never prayed in times of great need. Sometimes the outcome is good, others not so. God intervention has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

+1 cool points for you?

 

 

 

You wouldn't know that till you prove God does not exist? You speak as if it was a fact.

 

 

 

~Defender~

[warren211]

I usually don't. I admit, its hypocritical of me. Why should anyone pray to their god only when in need? I do pray in thanks occasionaly, but probably not enough. It wouldn't be fair of me to get a miracle whenever i beg, while there are some who dedicate their lives to god and are much more deserving of the miracle.

 

 

 

Thats one of the problems in society. they only pray when in need. We seldom hear from the common person "Lord, thanks for a wonderful day, that i have a life i can enjoy." ever hear someone praying befoere eating a meal at a fancy restaurant? i didn't think so. But of course, all over the place there's "lord, help me win the lottery. lord, help my home team win the football game. lord, help me get good grades." This in turn leads to stereotypes against several religions "how do christians believe in god when their prayers aren't answered?". The answer? hypocrites are the cause.

[warren211]

Seeing as how all religion is really sun worship, no.

 

 

 

Besides, if there really IS some invisible guy, who let the world become this awful, the guy who watches you in the shower, do you really want to ask HIM for help?

 

 

 

1. Who said HE let the world go bad? we could have stopped it. Global warming, terrorism, racism, etc. it can all be stopped. problem is all we do is make pickit signs and start Live earth concerts to raise awareness. yea, we are aware of the problems. but do we get off our lazy butts to do anything about it?

 

 

 

2. watches you in the shower? why should you have anything to hide from god? he created you. he knows you inside and out. He's not some fat, 40 year old perv. He's the all-knowing father, doctor, parent. Parents have seen you unclothed. so have doctors. why should you make a big deal over the fact that he watches you?

[TotalTalker]

Seeing as how all religion is really sun worship, no.

 

 

 

Besides, if there really IS some invisible guy, who let the world become this awful, the guy who watches you in the shower, do you really want to ask HIM for help?

 

 

 

1. Who said HE let the world go bad? we could have stopped it. Global warming, terrorism, racism, etc. it can all be stopped. problem is all we do is make pickit signs and start Live earth concerts to raise awareness. yea, we are aware of the problems. but do we get off our lazy butts to do anything about it?

 

 

 

2. watches you in the shower? why should you have anything to hide from god? he created you. he knows you inside and out. He's not some fat, 40 year old perv. He's the all-knowing father, doctor, parent. Parents have seen you unclothed. so have doctors. why should you make a big deal over the fact that he watches you?

 

 

 

That is exactly as I said.

[fakeitormakeit]

(sorry for anyone who doesn't believe in God/a god just hang around for a moment and you might not even bother wanting to read my post)

 

 

 

God is some being that gives us hope and comforts us with His response, its not a response inwhich you can hear but its certainly one you can feel.

[justcallmedaddy]

"ROFLMAO" at the atheist guy who things God likes to watch people naked, I don't mind the belief that god doesn't exsist, but to think THAT? C'mon even athiest know that is PLAIN STUPIDITY. :XD: :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I do pray and I agree fully with the guy above me.

 

 

 

 

 

God exists!!!!111111111

[warri0r45]

I have never prayed in times of great need. Sometimes the outcome is good, others not so. God intervention has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

+1 cool points for you?

 

 

 

You wouldn't know that till you prove God does not exist? You speak as if it was a fact.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Defender, people don't refuse to pray just because they think it will make them cool. If they do they are as pathetic as the kids at school aspiring to conform to the group of jocks. People refuse to pray because statistsically, it's nothing special at all. People get healed and people don't about 50/50 but somehow, those amputees never regrow a leg.

 

 

 

And we don't need to disprove god to confidently hold this position. Just like we don't need to disprove that praying to the flying spaghetti monster, the flying teacup, pink elephants, gremlins, troll, witches, warlocks or James Dean works. There are no facts in the supernatural world but that dosen't give us an excuse in an argument. What if the supernatural is just another level of reality? What if there's a super-supernatural with another level of deity? What if there's a super-super-supernatural? Or even another dimension in which this god of yours or another 24 exist? Parallel universe? Inside a wormhole? Perhaps Santa, the Zen spirit of Beetohoven, Yogi Bear and Alice Cooper's youthful facial appearance all exist on a fold in space time beyond the edge of the universe in the thirteenth dimension of a super-super-supernature. But do you hear me arguing "you can't prove that Santa, the Zen spirit of Beetohoven, Yogi Bear and Alice Cooper's youthful facial appearance don't exist on a fold in space time beyond the edge of the universe in the thirteenth dimension of a super-super-supernature and don't answer my prayers. You speak as if it's a fact." Well, whether you accept this fact or not, my little scenario has as much credence as does your god in terms of provability. Please, don't use the old 'you can't prove that god dosen't exist' stunt, because that is an IMPOSSIBILITY unless said god ever chooses to show himself to us. Proofs and known truths are reserved for the natural world, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

(forgive the slight facetiousness)

[malo2]

Miracles don't exist, there is a scientific explanation for everything.

 

 

 

/let the flame-war commence

its funny how people no longer even bother to avoid flame wars when it comes to religion :P

 

 

 

Anyway, to me, hoping for miracles is a total waste of time. you might as well lie down on some train tracks in front of an oncoming train and hope that you magically get teleported out of the way. If you want something to happen, then you act, and maybe a miracle caused by yourself will occur.

[Chocobodude0]

I pray every once in a while, but I rarely ask for help. I usually just do it to talk to someone. If there's something in my life that I can't tell anybody, I tell God. It's very relieving, just having someone to talk to.

[Zealot]

I have never prayed in times of great need. Sometimes the outcome is good, others not so. God intervention has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

+1 cool points for you?

 

 

 

You wouldn't know that till you prove God does not exist? You speak as if it was a fact.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Defender, people don't refuse to pray just because they think it will make them cool. If they do they are as pathetic as the kids at school aspiring to conform to the group of jocks. People refuse to pray because statistsically, it's nothing special at all. People get healed and people don't about 50/50 but somehow, those amputees never regrow a leg.

 

 

 

And we don't need to disprove god to confidently hold this position. Just like we don't need to disprove that praying to the flying spaghetti monster, the flying teacup, pink elephants, gremlins, troll, witches, warlocks or James Dean works. There are no facts in the supernatural world but that dosen't give us an excuse in an argument. What if the supernatural is just another level of reality? What if there's a super-supernatural with another level of deity? What if there's a super-super-supernatural? Or even another dimension in which this god of yours or another 24 exist? Parallel universe? Inside a wormhole? Perhaps Santa, the Zen spirit of Beetohoven, Yogi Bear and Alice Cooper's youthful facial appearance all exist on a fold in space time beyond the edge of the universe in the thirteenth dimension of a super-super-supernature. But do you hear me arguing "you can't prove that Santa, the Zen spirit of Beetohoven, Yogi Bear and Alice Cooper's youthful facial appearance don't exist on a fold in space time beyond the edge of the universe in the thirteenth dimension of a super-super-supernature and don't answer my prayers. You speak as if it's a fact." Well, whether you accept this fact or not, my little scenario has as much credence as does your god in terms of provability. Please, don't use the old 'you can't prove that god dosen't exist' stunt, because that is an IMPOSSIBILITY unless said god ever chooses to show himself to us. Proofs and known truths are reserved for the natural world, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

(forgive the slight facetiousness)

 

 

 

Hmmm... Methinks that you place too much value on inductive and abductive reasoning... And specifically on how they relate to the sciences.

 

 

 

If I were to tell you that all mooses are elephants, and all baboons are oceans, and therefor all mooses are oceans you would call me crazy. My reasoning is unfounded. Yet, if chaos is at the heart of everything, (think about quantum mechanics) and my reasoning capacity is in any sence of the word a thing, then chaos is at the heart of my reasoning (which I assume to be ordered). Furthermore if chaos is the heart of reason, then reason is unreasonable so I may as well stop trying to achieve anything through it and go live in a cave. My above argument is every bit as valid as this one: All ants are insects. All insects are animals. Therefor all ants are animals. That is to say that knowledge (Defined by Aristotle as justified true belief) is not possible.

 

 

 

That doesn't conform with my experience with reasoning. Technology, science, and medicine all seem to indicate that reasoning is ordered in several ways. The first is that if the same conditions hold, and I do the same thing, the same outcome will occure. This has been established to be true in a host of different circumstances. The fact that the computer that I am using to write this message is working stands as testiment to the truth of this observation about the ordering of reason. The other way that reasoning is ordered is that it appears to be the case that regardless of whether or not a sentient being is conciously focusing on an event that event will still obey certian principles and ordering. A dead tree will fall in a windstorm whether I watch it or not. In a sense reasoning superceeds interpretation of it.

 

 

 

With that in mind I confidently make the conclusion that if reasoning is ordered, then there is a basis for that reasoning. Reasoning is ordered, so it only follows that there must be a basis for that reasoning. I haven't established the necessity of diety, but I believe that this is ultima-facie grounds for holding the belief that that is a reasonable basis for reasoning being ordered. I'm not interested in proving that I'm right and you are wrong. I used to be, but now all I really care about is demonstrating that I can believe that there is a God and still have a brain. I'm giving an answer why I believe, no more.

[Rebdragon]

Hmmm... Methinks that you place too much value on inductive and abductive reasoning... And specifically on how they relate to the sciences.

 

 

 

If I were to tell you that all mooses are elephants, and all baboons are oceans, and therefor all mooses are oceans you would call me crazy. My reasoning is unfounded. Yet, if chaos is at the heart of everything, (think about quantum mechanics) and my reasoning capacity is in any sence of the word a thing, then chaos is at the heart of my reasoning (which I assume to be ordered). Furthermore if chaos is the heart of reason, then reason is unreasonable so I may as well stop trying to achieve anything through it and go live in a cave. My above argument is every bit as valid as this one: All ants are insects. All insects are animals. Therefor all ants are animals. That is to say that knowledge (Defined by Aristotle as justified true belief) is not possible.

 

 

 

That doesn't conform with my experience with reasoning. Technology, science, and medicine all seem to indicate that reasoning is ordered in several ways. The first is that if the same conditions hold, and I do the same thing, the same outcome will occure. This has been established to be true in a host of different circumstances. The fact that the computer that I am using to write this message is working stands as testiment to the truth of this observation about the ordering of reason. The other way that reasoning is ordered is that it appears to be the case that regardless of whether or not a sentient being is conciously focusing on an event that event will still obey certian principles and ordering. A dead tree will fall in a windstorm whether I watch it or not. In a sense reasoning superceeds interpretation of it.

 

 

 

With that in mind I confidently make the conclusion that if reasoning is ordered, then there is a basis for that reasoning. Reasoning is ordered, so it only follows that there must be a basis for that reasoning. I haven't established the necessity of diety, but I believe that this is ultima-facie grounds for holding the belief that that is a reasonable basis for reasoning being ordered. I'm not interested in proving that I'm right and you are wrong. I used to be, but now all I really care about is demonstrating that I can believe that there is a God and still have a brain. I'm giving an answer why I believe, no more.

 

I don't think a single word of that made any sense. You literally talked yourself in illogical circles.

 

 

 

Reason is unreasonable, so some form of a god has to exist? The universe has properties that we can understand, so some form of a god has to exist? Non sequiters, anyone?

 

 

 

I mean, I'm not an atheist, but there's no flaw in warri0r's logic. Just because something supernatural (i.e., beyond what is natural to us, and thus impossible to understand) can't be disproven is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it exists.

[fakeitormakeit]

This is probably the 500th "lets all start a flame war to get the thread closed", o wait, no such thread???

 

 

 

Anyway in this day and age its impossible to prove the big bang or any theories is right or wrong because of the law of conservation and a bunch of other laws and its impossible to prove a god(which I believe in) because some people actually need visual proof, etc.

 

Anyway, religion is something you have for hope not to be insulted for insult.

[Zealot]

Hmmm... Methinks that you place too much value on inductive and abductive reasoning... And specifically on how they relate to the sciences.

 

 

 

If I were to tell you that all mooses are elephants, and all baboons are oceans, and therefor all mooses are oceans you would call me crazy. My reasoning is unfounded. Yet, if chaos is at the heart of everything, (think about quantum mechanics) and my reasoning capacity is in any sence of the word a thing, then chaos is at the heart of my reasoning (which I assume to be ordered). Furthermore if chaos is the heart of reason, then reason is unreasonable so I may as well stop trying to achieve anything through it and go live in a cave. My above argument is every bit as valid as this one: All ants are insects. All insects are animals. Therefor all ants are animals. That is to say that knowledge (Defined by Aristotle as justified true belief) is not possible.

 

 

 

That doesn't conform with my experience with reasoning. Technology, science, and medicine all seem to indicate that reasoning is ordered in several ways. The first is that if the same conditions hold, and I do the same thing, the same outcome will occure. This has been established to be true in a host of different circumstances. The fact that the computer that I am using to write this message is working stands as testiment to the truth of this observation about the ordering of reason. The other way that reasoning is ordered is that it appears to be the case that regardless of whether or not a sentient being is conciously focusing on an event that event will still obey certian principles and ordering. A dead tree will fall in a windstorm whether I watch it or not. In a sense reasoning superceeds interpretation of it.

 

 

 

With that in mind I confidently make the conclusion that if reasoning is ordered, then there is a basis for that reasoning. Reasoning is ordered, so it only follows that there must be a basis for that reasoning. I haven't established the necessity of diety, but I believe that this is ultima-facie grounds for holding the belief that that is a reasonable basis for reasoning being ordered. I'm not interested in proving that I'm right and you are wrong. I used to be, but now all I really care about is demonstrating that I can believe that there is a God and still have a brain. I'm giving an answer why I believe, no more.

 

I don't think a single word of that made any sense. You literally talked yourself in illogical circles.

 

 

 

Reason is unreasonable, so some form of a god has to exist? The universe has properties that we can understand, so some form of a god has to exist? Non sequiters, anyone?

 

 

 

I mean, I'm not an atheist, but there's no flaw in warri0r's logic. Just because something supernatural (i.e., beyond what is natural to us, and thus impossible to understand) can't be disproven is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it exists.

 

 

 

*Sighs* Let me break it down.

 

 

 

Let's assume that there is nothing supernatural.

 

It follows from that that nature is all that exists.

 

Nature is governed by principles which are random in nature (ie. chaotic)

 

Examples include quantum mechanics which govern how individual atoms and molecules interact.

 

It also follows that since nature is all that exists my mind is a part of nature.

 

My mind functions based on chaotic principles.

 

My mind preforms reasoning, an ordered series of events focusing on a goal. (this is an example).

 

Therefore my mind is both chaotic and ordered in nature.

 

Therefor it is not the case that nothing supernatural exists.

 

 

 

The same argument form was how it was discovered that the square root of two is irrational. It's called reductio ad absurdum or reducing to absurdity. It is based on the premise that a thing can not be in possession of both a quality and it's logical negation. In this case, my mind can not both possess rationality and irrationality.

 

 

 

The weakness of my argument is that I do not go into the reason why I believe that it is intrinsically necessary that something supernatural exist in order to explain how the mind can be rational in a world based in part on irrationality. I am too tired to go into that tonight. Maybe tomorrow after work I will... or later... depending on when I get done with everything else I'm already doing.

[Rebdragon]

*Sighs* Let me break it down.

 

 

 

Let's assume that there is nothing supernatural.

 

It follows from that that nature is all that exists.

 

Nature is governed by principles which are random in nature (ie. chaotic)

 

Examples include quantum mechanics which govern how individual atoms and molecules interact.

 

It also follows that since nature is all that exists my mind is a part of nature.

 

My mind functions based on chaotic principles.

 

My mind preforms reasoning, an ordered series of events focusing on a goal. (this is an example).

 

Therefore my mind is both chaotic and ordered in nature.

 

Therefor it is not the case that nothing supernatural exists.

 

 

 

The same argument form was how it was discovered that the square root of two is irrational. It's called reductio ad absurdum or reducing to absurdity. It is based on the premise that a thing can not be in possession of both a quality and it's logical negation. In this case, my mind can not both possess rationality and irrationality.

 

 

 

The weakness of my argument is that I do not go into the reason why I believe that it is intrinsically necessary that something supernatural exist in order to explain how the mind can be rational in a world based in part on irrationality. I am too tired to go into that tonight. Maybe tomorrow after work I will... or later... depending on when I get done with everything else I'm already doing.

 

Ya, that's the only part of your post I was really arguing against, so I guess I'll have to wait for what you have to say tomorrow :-w .