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Awww? Poor gold farmer? [please lock]


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#1
Omar
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Most of you in TIF know about gold farmers, and when I asked my friend why he wouldn't come to my bot reporting trip, he said "It's the only thing they can do for cash! It's not easy to find a job in China!"



So, when you think about it, a macroer is often a poor kid that has to work in these terrible conditions and that would probably rather work somewhere else.



What do you think about that? Is it being selfish, or is it legitimate?
Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can
Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?
Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?
Camera guy: still laughing
Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy
Camera guy: runs away still laughing
Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down
Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!
Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

#2
Michael
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I like bots, they keep the economy steady, and face the fact that at somepoint you'll buy raw materials from an autoer or from the main account the autoers trade to. So unless you always collect your own materials then you'll have bought from an autoer, which in turn lowers the prices.

#3
Halo_2_4_U
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I don't think macroers deserve to stay in the game since being a macro implies that you don't work. Of course, a positive interaction with a macroer is virtually unavoidable, because if you want something cheap in huge quantities, you're probably buying from a macroer.
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#4
Hi9im8Here7
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No, actually macroing for a living in China pays about as well, and has the same or better working conditions as any other job. Jagex was exaggerating when they said "sweatshops".

#5
highlanders
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A shop or factory in which employees work long hours at low wages under poor conditions.






16 hours



0.50 cents an hour



Somewhere looking like this







Sounds like a sweatshop to me -.-

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#6
Hi9im8Here7
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A shop or factory in which employees work long hours at low wages under poor conditions.






16 hours



0.50 cents an hour



Somewhere looking like this







Sounds like a sweatshop to me -.-








It looks bad, but remember, this is China. It would be the same low-income situation as a Chinese factory worker, for example.







For some reason people think little kids are forced to play these games. They're not. The people that work there aren't evil. They're just trying to make a living. The chance of destroying a game's economy certainly isn't going to stop them. That doesn't mean we should ignore gold farmers, but please, cut out all the ignorant rhetoric about "those evil chinese shweatshops".

#7
walka92
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autos/farmers/macro. its a mixed bag of good and bad











good: they keep the economy stable and allow people to obtain large numbers of raw materials like logs, bow strings, dragon hides and dragon bones











bad: they were everywere, and break several rules, including no real world trading











seriously, without macros, the rs economy would die

I'm gonna be walking down an alley in varrock, and walka is going to walk up to me in a trench coat and say "psst.. hey man, wanna buy some sara brew"

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#8
Omar
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This is what I was thinking about, too, but anyhow...



Since they're everywhere, without macros, all the prices go up. Therefore, shouldn't the way you make money get you more money, making it pretty much the same to buy yews 400 instead of 300 each?
Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can
Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?
Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?
Camera guy: still laughing
Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy
Camera guy: runs away still laughing
Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down
Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!
Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

#9
rodl
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Macroer is a program.







Gold farmer on the other hand is a person who actually uses the account.

#10
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A shop or factory in which employees work long hours at low wages under poor conditions.






16 hours



0.50 cents an hour



Somewhere looking like this







Sounds like a sweatshop to me -.-








.50 cents an hour doesn't sound like much in America. But china's standard of living is significantly lower. If you were in China, you might be able to buy say... a Big Mac for 25 cents. It's a big world out there, and you can't take figures and apply them to the "American" way of life.
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#11
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A shop or factory in which employees work long hours at low wages under poor conditions.






16 hours



0.50 cents an hour



Somewhere looking like this







Sounds like a sweatshop to me -.-








It looks bad, but remember, this is China. It would be the same low-income situation as a Chinese factory worker, for example.







For some reason people think little kids are forced to play these games. They're not. The people that work there aren't evil. They're just trying to make a living. The chance of destroying a game's economy certainly isn't going to stop them. That doesn't mean we should ignore gold farmers, but please, cut out all the ignorant rhetoric about "those evil chinese shweatshops".




Bare in mind that while 0.50 cents sounds like a pitiful amount to us, prices in China, thanks partly to the Socialist movement that's existed for the last fifty years, are much much lower than they are in the US? A boat trip costs the equivalent of a fraction of a pound over there, for example.







I agree. The amount of xenophobia that's been flown about this issue is crazy, and unfortunetely, Jagex have to accept some responsibility in that. I couldn't believe it when they actually tried to say the majority of the macro problems lies in China, which is totally unjust statement for several reasons. It actually made me consider quitting, I was that uneasy about it.

#12
Omar
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I look a the video and think that botd and farmers are totally different, and apparently, finding a job is incredbly hard -- there must be an alternative to gold farming, right? There must be another kind of job out there.
Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can
Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?
Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?
Camera guy: still laughing
Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy
Camera guy: runs away still laughing
Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down
Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!
Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

#13
Ginger_Warrior
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I look a the video and think that botd and farmers are totally different, and apparently, finding a job is incredbly hard -- there must be an alternative to gold farming, right? There must be another kind of job out there.




I don't know the situation in China all that well, but I'm guessing that would be like saying there must be an alternative to drug dealing or prostitution. Sometimes, there's just no opportunity.

#14
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If you've got a choice between ethics and putting food on the table for the family, the family will always take top priority, even if your sense of ethics are ironclad or not. These people have to work to get food on the table, and regardless of whether we like them or not, they're still quite hungry, and this job is in essence the best alternative to getting food for the kids (aside from prostitution and drug dealing).







What can we do about it? Honestly, that's tough to say. Jagex shouldn't have announced that most of them were from Asian countries; sounds like more xenophobia to me, which is one less thing that the average agegroup of RuneScape needs. It also isn't like they are just going to magically go away, no matter what Jagex does; if someone is paying them to get this stuff, then by God they will get this stuff.







The situation as it stands is one that Jagex alone can not combat, regardless of how hard they try. However, we as players are not completely helpless; we could begin in theory to harvest our own items for our own use to cut down on their market. Yet, the average 'Scaper here won't have enough patience to mine 10K coal or 2K mithril, or even kill 1,000 blue dragons. That is what they do; that is why they exist; that is why they will not go away, not until we get patient enough to do those menial tasks.

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#15
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If you've got a choice between ethics and putting food on the table for the family, the family will always take top priority, even if your sense of ethics are ironclad or not. These people have to work to get food on the table, and regardless of whether we like them or not, they're still quite hungry, and this job is in essence the best alternative to getting food for the kids (aside from prostitution and drug dealing).







What can we do about it? Honestly, that's tough to say. Jagex shouldn't have announced that most of them were from Asian countries; sounds like more xenophobia to me, which is one less thing that the average agegroup of RuneScape needs. It also isn't like they are just going to magically go away, no matter what Jagex does; if someone is paying them to get this stuff, then by God they will get this stuff.







The situation as it stands is one that Jagex alone can not combat, regardless of how hard they try. However, we as players are not completely helpless; we could begin in theory to harvest our own items for our own use to cut down on their market. Yet, the average 'Scaper here won't have enough patience to mine 10K coal or 2K mithril, or even kill 1,000 blue dragons. That is what they do; that is why they exist; that is why they will not go away, not until we get patient enough to do those menial tasks.




Two points I'd like to expand on there. Firstly, that actually highlights a problem with the whole culture of cheating. The only reason it exists is because the majority of people would rather take the easy way to victory, than take the long path and relish the reward at the end. If Jagex are ever to solve this issue of macroing, they need to remove this culture first, or it's a hopeless cause and issue that will constantly pop-up as a low-level annoyance.







The second is how that post highlights a problem with Western-culture. Look at History; who was it that built our railways for instance? In the UK, Islamic immigrants did while the typical white wealthy entrepreneur payed for them to come over here and live in shambolic conditions. In the modern day world, who is it that drives our buses? Works in our cafés? Eastern-European migrants if I'm not mistaken, in other words, anyone but us. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's far easier for white, teenageer in the Western World to just buy someone else's labour in the developing world, as has been the case for four centuries in our History. I would hope this would have ended by now in the modern world, but clearly such differences in wealth still exist. -.-

#16
Isloman
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You seem to have incorrectly labelled gold farmers as macroers (as has been pointed out already), but as macroers is what you talked about first, this is what i want to address first.



I hate macroers so much. They take up space at training spots, the undercut your prices when selling raw materials, and the people behind them gain xp for very little work, while Im there for hours on end clicking away.

What annoys me even more though, is the fact that people seem to think we rely on them for the RS economy. Yes in a way this is true. If you are lazy and cannot be bothered to collect the materials yourself.

If macroers had never existed, prices would very likely be no different. Why? There would still be the vast numbers of materials, it would just take a little longer to gather them together to be sold in bulk. This is essentially what merchanters do. They are RS's wholesalers. They collect huge amounts of a certain good at a certain price, then add a profit mark-up for bulk amounts. If there weren't any macroers, this process of wholesale merchanting would still continue, albeit at a slower rate.

Therefore, i feel that there is no justification whatsoever for macroers existing in the RS economy..





Gold-farming however is a completly different matter... These are actual people who are playing the game so they can sell the gold they make for real world money.

This is where it gets difficult...

On one hand, I disagree with them doing this, as they are breaking the Real-World Trading rule, and are (or where) disrupting prices of items in game (remember sharks went down to 500gp?) etc, etc.



On the other hand... some of these people have no choice. It's either work in this industry, being paid (what seems to us) a measly wage to sit in front of a computer screen for 12 hours a day woodcutting or fishing or mining, or be unemployed an unable to enjoy a reasonable standard of living...

Who are we to complain about the price of a shark, when it makes no matter to us in our nice roomy houses with a fridge full of food, and a nice comfy bed to sleep in, whether we pay 500gp for a shark or 1000gp...? These people rely on people in western countries paying their £5 for a million gp, so that they can go home and have a full stomach and a comfortable bed to sleep in at the end of the day...



Maybe a few slight exaggerations there.. but you get the point..



At the end of the day, to us its just a game. If RS crashed overnight, we'd maybe get angry about it for a few hours... but life for us would move on.

Im still a bit undecided about where i stand on this issue of gold farmers.. but i know for a fact that macroers are definatly not a healthy element of this game, and are something I will be glad to be removed completly.
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#17
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What an awesome job, none of them seem unhappy, they look like they are having fun, and if it keeps meals on the table more power to them.

Jagex needs to learn that you cant regulate human behavior expecially on the internet, they can make all the disclaimers in the world about how my char doesnt belong to me, but if i quit and feel like selling it ill do so, becouse i worked my [wagon] off on that char, and i spent close to 300$ on membership over the years, if they think that im just going to let it rot they have another thing coming.

#18
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They might not be able to make a living another way but I don't care about their sorry lives then, just go find another game to ruin, reform the government, find another job or whatever <.<
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#19
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I've heard of a person who runs 10 accounts at the same time and cuts over 10k yew logs a day. Thats 3,500,000 gp. The average price of gp is $5 per million. Thats $17.50 a day, I don't know where you heard $0.50 a day.....

#20
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I've heard of a person who runs 10 accounts at the same time and cuts over 10k yew logs a day. Thats 3,500,000 gp. The average price of gp is $5 per million. Thats $17.50 a day, I don't know where you heard $0.50 a day.....




$0.50 an hour, not day.



And someone here stated, macros are programmes. People who use them a *bleep* too lazy to click a mouse. If they are too lazy to even do that, than they should be banned for life from everything, since they are too lazy to walk.
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