Lunar still needs improvement?

[gun_hippy]

Cost does not make something useless, if it did every barrows set, 3rd age, d bow, drag weps, drag armour, ancients, saradomin brews, super sets, sharks etc would all be useless as they are expensive.

 

 

 

The question isn't are we able to pay it or not, the question is if it's worth it or not. I personally got no reason to pay few hundred thousand gp per week more just to save 30 secs per farm run.

 

 

 

Here's little calculations per farm run. The rune amounts are copied from tip.it magic guide so blame them for mistakes, not me. I assume that the Falador patch is checked after a tele to Draynor.

 

 

 

Lunar

 

Fish guild: 3 astral 3 law 10 water

 

Catherby: 3 astral 3 law 10 water

 

Trollheim: 3 astral 2 cosmic 1 law + 2 law 2 fire

 

 

 

Normal:

 

Ardounge: 2 law 2 water

 

Camelot : 1 law 5 air

 

Trollheim: 2 law 2 fire

 

 

 

If we don't count normal runes, there's a pretty big difference between lunars and normals: 5 laws vs 9 laws+9astrals+1cosmic. If laws are 300gp per, you spend 1.2k more per run. if Astrals are 150gp each, you spend 1350gp there. 2.7k gp difference just in good runes, the weaker ones add it up by few hundred. That's nothing for a sunday farmer, but a serious farmer who does 10 runs a day it costs 810k more per month. I personally paid well enough just for my tree seeds, never in hell would want to spend 810k extra per month just to save few mins per trip.

 

 

 

If we add fertile soil spell to that, it adds 5,250gp per farm run. With 10 farm runs a day it costs an extra 1,575,000gp per month. I rather farm my own watermelons for it and pay around 600gp per super compost + get the farm xp.

 

 

 

Yes, the cure poison is a handy spell, but only if you feel like wasting some more cash. A cure potion takes only 1 space and costs 40gp, so it's handier AND cheaper.

 

 

 

The point is that for a serious farmer it isn't worth it to use lunar spells. You can argue that the runes are free if you craft them. However you're wrong there. They still are worth their price, no matter did you craft them or pay them.

 

 

 

Again is boils down to them are extremely useful IF you can afford it

 

 

 

Or IF your not part of the lazy mass and will mine ess and craft thier own runes.

 

 

 

There are people who can't afford to use teleport spells, but that doesn't make the spells useless.

 

 

 

Just because YOU can't/won't pay the time/money to use a spell set that gives an obvious advantage doesn't mean it is useless or worthless

 

 

 

You can't honestly say that cost is not a factor when determining whether something is efficient or not. :|

 

 

 

Besides, who does 10 runs a day? That's 15 hours of being online, at least.

 

 

 

A lot of people. You'd be surprised.

 

 

 

Cost is a factor, but generally my line of thought would be - im gonna rc anyway sooooo.....

[12pure34]

I have lunar magics including the Dream mentor update. With 78 magic, I hardly use lunar. I use it for a few things:

 

 

 

Waterbirth teleport --> Snapegrass, faster and more then you can ever use.

 

Humidify for all the Vial filling you need. Also handy while powertraining at granite mine. You can fill your waterskins with this and stay here forever. though I haven't used it for the last one.

 

So for herblore, it may be usefull .. a bit. As mostly, you buy vials already waterfilled. It is rare to buy empty vials.

 

 

 

NPC contact.. never used it. Unless you use guthans and you can last your tasks without food or without banking etc.. you can use this effectifly..

 

 

 

For the teleports, I hate using teletablets. And although I have a house with all teleport portals, I love to use normal teleports as it goes faster. Lunar teleports are hardly worth it. Not only the extra cost in runes, but I only save several seconds on the extra teleports and lose tons on the missing ones.

 

 

 

The only reason it would make lunar worth it for me would be Tanning on the spot. With this and someone on normal magic, I could camp at the dragons for ages. (for alching) And that will be the only reason for me to ever stick to lunar magic. For now, I rarely use it

[hohto]

Besides, who does 10 runs a day? That's 15 hours of being online, at least.

 

 

 

It's not that bad as you don't need to be online all the time. A lot less actual playtime used in that than in doing 12 hours of any other skill.

 

 

 

Again is boils down to them are extremely useful IF you can afford it

 

 

 

No sane farmer throws 2-3 million gp away per month just to save that time. If you're so much into farming that you want to waste money on it, you buy magic trees or palms with that. There's no rational reason for using lunars while doing hardcore farming.

 

 

 

At this point I'd like to ask you how much have you tried farming with lunars? I personally thought every aspect of farming during my way to 99 and saw that standard magic is by far the best way for it.

 

 

 

Or IF your not part of the lazy mass and will mine ess and craft thier own runes.

 

 

 

That doesn't remove the cost factor. You still lose runes worth X amount of gp. With that logic a party hat doesn't cost you anything if you mine your own ess, craft them and buy a phat with that cash.

 

 

 

Edit: I personally find it funny how pretty much all 90+ farmers agree that lunars+farming isn't as good as many tend to think.

 

 

 

Just because YOU can't/won't pay the time/money to use a spell set that gives an obvious advantage doesn't mean it is useless or worthless

 

 

 

I personally find that extremely funny. I've lost something around 100-150 million gp on my road to 99 farm and I still am richer than 99% of the people on these forums. Being able to afford it and finding it worth wasting on are 2 totally different things.

[gun_hippy]

Besides, who does 10 runs a day? That's 15 hours of being online, at least.

 

 

 

It's not that bad as you don't need to be online all the time. A lot less actual playtime used in that than in doing 12 hours of any other skill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*psst* i didn't say that ;p double check the name

[Sy_Accursed]

Besides, who does 10 runs a day? That's 15 hours of being online, at least.

 

 

 

It's not that bad as you don't need to be online all the time. A lot less actual playtime used in that than in doing 12 hours of any other skill.

 

 

 

Again is boils down to them are extremely useful IF you can afford it

 

 

 

No sane farmer throws 2-3 million gp away per month just to save that time. If you're so much into farming that you want to waste money on it, you buy magic trees or palms with that. There's no rational reason for using lunars while doing hardcore farming.

 

 

 

At this point I'd like to ask you how much have you tried farming with lunars? I personally thought every aspect of farming during my way to 99 and saw that standard magic is by far the best way for it.

 

 

 

Or IF your not part of the lazy mass and will mine ess and craft thier own runes.

 

 

 

That doesn't remove the cost factor. You still lose runes worth X amount of gp. With that logic a party hat doesn't cost you anything if you mine your own ess, craft them and buy a phat with that cash.

 

 

 

Edit: I personally find it funny how pretty much all 90+ farmers agree that lunars+farming isn't as good as many tend to think.

 

 

 

Just because YOU can't/won't pay the time/money to use a spell set that gives an obvious advantage doesn't mean it is useless or worthless

 

 

 

I personally find that extremely funny. I've lost something around 100-150 million gp on my road to 99 farm and I still am richer than 99% of the people on these forums. Being able to afford it and finding it worth wasting on are 2 totally different things.

 

 

 

It seems clearly to me you are merely obsessed with cost.

 

 

 

Not everyone values gold and cost above all else.

 

 

 

I have farmed a bit using lunar magics and found it much faster to get around.

 

 

 

Also something you make for free in no way count as cost as you made them for free, granted using them may not be the most profitable use of them,but its not a cost.

 

 

 

I agree if your obsessed with money and not spending or losing to much lunars are overkill

 

 

 

But if your after speed and an easy route to a wider variety of patches luanrs are very worth while

[superson]

Im pretty happy with lunar spells the way they are...What I do wish they'd do is add the switch spell to every book of spells.

 

 

 

 

 

agreed, ancient magic with the switch might be to over powered in the wilderness some might claim. but still id like to see it.

 

 

 

Teleblock + Ice Barrage = NO!

[Freesia]

I find a problem with Lunar that most of its teleports have replacement spells from other spellbooks or items, only waterbirth, lunar isle and khazard teleport is spells only lunar have, but again you can charter to port khazard rather quickly.

 

 

 

For farmers out there, you can actually use the skills necklace to teleport to fishing guild instead of lunar. If you think from a different perspective, those runes that you think you wasted still goes to magic exp. :?

[Ts_Stormrage]

A lunar mage with a dramen/lunar staff is THE most mobile character in game - hence it is excellent for anyone skilling as long as they have the runes

 

 

 

Especially if you're NOT wearing your Seal of Passage, and have a house in Rellekka with a glory and 6 portals in it :)

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho, my opinion on what Lunar spells need:

 

 

 

Astral Staff.... free astral runes... nuff said

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, some spells shuld be added opn Lunars form the regular spell book:

 

Superheat Item

 

High and Low Alchemy... and

 

Telekinetic Grab

[hohto]

It seems clearly to me you are merely obsessed with cost. Not everyone values gold and cost above all else.

 

 

 

You obviously didn't get my point there. It's sometimes worth it to spend a lot of gp on something to get it quickly. However lunars+farming isn't worth it for the reason that xp:gp:time ratio doesn't meet there. If you're into farm xp you should invest your gp on good tree/fruit tree seeds or if you're into profit then do farm runs with as cheap teles as possible. As you might know, farming goes in cycles. This means your herbs won't most likely be done any faster with standard magics than with lunar spells.

 

 

 

If you don't care about the cost but you want as fast farm xp as possible, lunars are rather horrible: they are far away from many fruit tree and tree patches. Yes, you can do spellbok swap, but with it comes the inventory space problem into even bigger role: you will be more likely to need a bank trip with lunars than without them. Of course if you don't care about the cost, you can always drop the magic logs.... Or even better, pay the farmer and not get anything back from the 170k seed.

 

 

 

I have farmed a bit using lunar magics and found it much faster to get around.

 

 

 

A bit versus 99 farming here in this. I personally counted everything started from herb:seed ratio (counted over 1300 herb seeds there) to the real cost of magic trees (is it worth it to pay the farmer, etc) and I definately didn't forget lunars. I personally found a lot better use for my money: if speed is what I want, I do magic trees, yews and palms with my spare cash. Also the word "much" is a bit misleading here: the time isn't that much faster at all. You seem to forget that there's a bank in a perfect place at Ardy when you use the standard magics teleport. This makes it easier to never run out of inventory space and not needing to bank because of 1-2 herbs.

 

 

 

Also something you make for free in no way count as cost as you made them for free, granted using them may not be the most profitable use of them,but its not a cost.

 

 

 

Every item has its value, we probably agree on that. When you lose an item that's worth X, you basically lose X gp no matter how have you gotten that item.

 

 

 

For the price of an item, basically supply+demand+(drops)+"material value" (=high alch) judge the price. with current demand, runite bars cannot drop under the value of the item that gives highest amount of gp per bar. For supply, one major thing that affects to it is the time used to get it. Law runes and death runes are so close to nature rune prices for the reason that they aren't worth it to sell for lower price. If their demand drops so badly that the only way to sell them is for nature rune price - X (X standing for an amount of gp which is high enough to turn people away), people will stop crafting them as it's not worth their time. Eventually this decreased supply forces the price back up.

 

 

 

The meaning of this economical lesson is to show you that every item has its price and no matter have you made it yourself, bought it or found it, it's worth the same. This means that no matter do you craft your own runes or buy them, you lose runes worth the same amount of gp.

[blosssom2581]

no. In fact, I plan to finish Lunar Diplomacy and Dream Mentor once I become a member (and hit 85 combat lol) & turn to Lunar book for a long time, if not permantly

 

 

 

I know, I know that Lunar book lacks combat spells, but that book isn't designed for that! Remember the focus of different books. If you rant for lack of combat spells (except Vengeance, perhaps), why don't you rant the ancient book for lack of non-combat spells like superheat or alchemy?

 

 

 

Every book has its pros and cons. Get used to that. Nothing is perfect, unfortunately

 

 

 

++++++++++++++ Pro ++++++++++++++ Con

 

Modern++++++Great variety of spells++++++Can't hit high

 

Ancient++++High damage, nice in pvp++++ No non-combat spells

 

Lunar++++++++ High variety of spells

 

++++++++++to facilitate different skills+++Lack of combat skills

 

 

 

So, if you train each skill equally, stay at modern mage

 

If you are a famed PKer / staker, go for ancient mage book

 

If you love leveling up non-combat skills (like me), head for lunar spells

[blosssom2581]

someone may argue for the cost of the teleport spells, but they forgot that there is a fairy ring network, which is compatitible with lunar staff. Fairy ring network + tree gnome network + enchanted jewelleries+shippings serves most member without much trouble (if you don't mind a short walk)

 

 

 

I don't think members teleport much using law runes, except during farming

 

 

 

I havn't tried that (for obvious reasons) but if I go on slayer, or powermining granite when I subscribe, lunar spell can be useful at some way. Aah, I can get buckets of sand for my crafting as well

 

 

 

Also, you can change back to normal mage easily (home teleport + a short walk), so if you wanna do high alch, or combat, there is a way to go!, especially if your home is in Rellekka, interchange between spell books made easy

[bigtoy]

u guys are nuts :P I LOVE LUNARS, their so convient and if ur 85+ slayer u easily make enough cash to cover the runes, i love it when i get nechryals finish them and use contact spell and get abby demons :D its fun and i just walk over their and do them :P and ive been on lunars ever since i did the quest and ive gotten 7 slayer lvls so far with them :P

[Sy_Accursed]

 

Every item has its value, we probably agree on that. When you lose an item that's worth X, you basically lose X gp no matter how have you gotten that item.

 

 

 

For the price of an item, basically supply+demand+(drops)+"material value" (=high alch) judge the price. with current demand, runite bars cannot drop under the value of the item that gives highest amount of gp per bar. For supply, one major thing that affects to it is the time used to get it. Law runes and death runes are so close to nature rune prices for the reason that they aren't worth it to sell for lower price. If their demand drops so badly that the only way to sell them is for nature rune price - X (X standing for an amount of gp which is high enough to turn people away), people will stop crafting them as it's not worth their time. Eventually this decreased supply forces the price back up.

 

 

 

The meaning of this economical lesson is to show you that every item has its price and no matter have you made it yourself, bought it or found it, it's worth the same. This means that no matter do you craft your own runes or buy them, you lose runes worth the same amount of gp.

 

 

 

Yes that may be well and true but my point is it IS NOT a lose of money

 

 

 

If you have 10mil cash

 

 

 

You mine say 1mil WORTH of ess

 

 

 

you still have 10mil cash. Your account is worth more,but you have not GAINED any money

 

 

 

you craft 1mil worth of ess into say 3mil worth of runes

 

 

 

your account value has again gone up, but you still have not gained any money

 

 

 

You use the runes.

 

 

 

Your account value goes back down, you still have your 10mil cash.

 

 

 

Do-it-yourself runes etc cause your account value to rise and fall, but they have no effect on your money as you never sold them. Meaning you make no money loses

[hohto]

Yes -- loses

 

 

 

The point is you lose runes worth 2-3 million. It does not matter do you craft them yourself, collect from drops, get donations or buy them. The only way to avoid losing runes worth that is to tele without runes.

[Sy_Accursed]

Yes -- loses

 

 

 

The point is you lose runes worth 2-3 million. It does not matter do you craft them yourself, collect from drops, get donations or buy them. The only way to avoid losing runes worth that is to tele without runes.

 

 

 

That is not the point at all

 

 

 

I am referring to MONEY loses

 

 

 

items that you never had as MONEY don't have any effect on your MONEY gain and loses

 

 

 

They only affect your account value.

 

 

 

 

 

Eg I have around 5k nats I BOUGHT at 310ea and another 5k I made

 

 

 

alching things that made less than 310ea would affect my account value but make no MONEY lose for the 5k I made

 

 

 

Where as using the 5k I BOUGHT it'd be a money lose as they runes were once money in my account.

 

 

 

You seem to be missing the concept idea here,so I'll put it bluntly as I can

 

 

 

Talking 100% purely of money gains and loses, totally ignoring account Value (account value = money + value of items). If mine ess, craft it to runes and use them it has absolutely no affect over your money.

 

 

 

Unless you sell them they don't in any way affect your money, therefore do count as a money lose.

 

 

 

They count towards a drop in your accounts value, since having them put that up.But money lose and value lose are not the same thing.

[pizzalord1]

If I go on a long slayer spree, then I'll craft a load of home and bones to peaches tabs, and switch to lunar. For pretty much anything else, Lunar isn't worth staying on. Plank make is an enormous dissapointment, and there needs to be more spells to make it worthwhile to stay on.

 

 

 

That said, I do like to mess around with superheat glass and humidify.

[hohto]

The -- thing.

 

 

 

With this logic we can't lose money as we start from 0 and make your own gp by killing monsters, collecting raw materials and begging from others. It does not matter have you bought it, made it or gotten it from others, you still lose runes worth the same amount of gp. If you care about time and xp, it would be alot wiser to spend that money (or sell runes and use the gp) on good fruit tree or tree seeds instead of lunar spells. It's a bit same why we rather buy a whip instead of train with addy battleaxe while using super str+att potions.

[the_drunk_dude]

Lunar is not worth it, I used it to 'skill' and it was extremely ineffective. There is really no use for it, if you don't use lunar you save money and the time you lose is very marginal.

[Matok]

Plank make is an enormous dissapointment...

 

+1

 

personaly i think they should fire the guy responsible for this amazingly useless feature...

[Sy_Accursed]

The -- thing.

 

 

 

With this logic we can't lose money as we start from 0 and make your own gp by killing monsters, collecting raw materials and begging from others. It does not matter have you bought it, made it or gotten it from others, you still lose runes worth the same amount of gp. If you care about time and xp, it would be alot wiser to spend that money (or sell runes and use the gp) on good fruit tree or tree seeds instead of lunar spells. It's a bit same why we rather buy a whip instead of train with addy battleaxe while using super str+att potions.

 

 

 

Well thats just rubbish

 

 

 

sure we start with 0gp, but we lose gp as soon as we spend it.

 

 

 

Unless you die or get scammed your account value would stay the same regardless of what you buy/sell only your money would be lost and gained.

 

 

 

Money and Value are not the same thing.

 

 

 

We all gain and lose money all the time as we buy and sell

 

 

 

Account value also changes as we buy and sell.

 

 

 

But it still stands in perfect logic collecting the materials yourself and making runes yourself and then using them directly on magic has absolutely no affect on the gain or lose of money.

 

 

 

Therefore it can be claimed using lunar magics with self-made ruins does not waste or lose money.

 

 

 

It does however cause a lose of value as the runes are used.

 

 

 

Perhaps it is true selling the runes for money and buying seeds with them is better off in terms of xp.

 

 

 

But no matter what you say there is no way you can disprove that lunar teles can helpyou get around faster to farm AND doing them with self-made runes DOES NOT lose you money as the runes never were money.

[daigotsu]

When they first announced Dream Mentor, I was hoping for more generally useful spells... some ideas I was kicking around:

 

 

 

(1) I would gladly pay a few runes for a Combine Potion spell that took an inventory of pots and made as many of them as possible into 4-doses. Even if it consumed the empty vials.

 

 

 

(2) Tan Hides spell anyone? Please?

 

 

 

(3) Identify Herbs. Like the last one though, and the failing of the Plank Make spell, they would need to work on the entire inventory. This one's not as useful, since with high enough herblore it takes no time at all to click through an entire inventory.

 

 

 

(4) ... and a pipe dream, I'm sure, but I would pay really good runes for a Send To Bank spell that worked on "all of one item in your inventory." Talk about a single spell to support skilling the best -- for mining, woodcutting, collecting dragon hides, collecting potion ingredients, etc. it would be a godsend. Even if it cost 10 astrals and 10 souls, I think the time saved by not running around would be worth it.

 

 

 

Just some thoughts on making Lunar truly useful.

 

 

 

D

[BBC3]

lunar is only for people with 96+ magic, anything under and your wasting your time.

 

 

 

if you can get to 96 magic alone you should have money to be able to use skillbook swap anyway.

 

 

 

and teleporting anywhere on all 3 books is good enough for me.

[Theoknight2]

They used up all the good teles on normal magic, then give us crappy teles for everything else. They need a tele to Lunar Isle and Azandra's Pyramid on all spellbooks, (including tele to Lunar Isle on ancients and vise versa) because the tele to Lunar Isle on Lunar magic is idiotic. Why would I want to go to Lunar Isle when I'm on Lunar Magic? The only use I see for that spell is to get snape grass reeeeaal quick. I want to be able to tele to Azanandra's Pyramid on Normal Magic to change quickly, but nooooo. You have to be on LUNAR MAGIC to tele quickly to LUNAR ISLAND to quickly change! GAH!!!! :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

[Freesia]

When they first announced Dream Mentor, I was hoping for more generally useful spells... some ideas I was kicking around:

 

 

 

(1) I would gladly pay a few runes for a Combine Potion spell that took an inventory of pots and made as many of them as possible into 4-doses. Even if it consumed the empty vials.

 

 

 

(2) Tan Hides spell anyone? Please?

 

 

 

(3) Identify Herbs. Like the last one though, and the failing of the Plank Make spell, they would need to work on the entire inventory. This one's not as useful, since with high enough herblore it takes no time at all to click through an entire inventory.

 

 

 

(4) ... and a pipe dream, I'm sure, but I would pay really good runes for a Send To Bank spell that worked on "all of one item in your inventory." Talk about a single spell to support skilling the best -- for mining, woodcutting, collecting dragon hides, collecting potion ingredients, etc. it would be a godsend. Even if it cost 10 astrals and 10 souls, I think the time saved by not running around would be worth it.

 

 

 

Just some thoughts on making Lunar truly useful.

 

 

 

D

 

1) Some people don't really need it. I have a better solution though, a spell that upon casting allows to make (4) pots instead of the usual (3) for x seconds.

 

 

 

2)Yes please, I don't mind.

 

 

 

3) Could work, but again some people don't need it.

 

 

 

4)too imbalanced, no.

 

 

 

I thinking of a spell that aids farming which is one you can cast on a compost bin, having the effects of a compost potion.