Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Quoi_Tu]

 

Why not? You'll no doubt drill it into their head it's wrong when they're outside of school anyway. What's wrong with school giving them a balanced view of the world?

 

 

 

There are only two rational reasons why I can think people would honestly feel uncomfortable with their children receiving education on gay marriages:

 

 

 

1) Homophobia - simply put, they just don't like gays.

 

2) A fear of their children "choosing" to be homosexuals.

 

 

 

Now if we both accept it's in the national interest to remove hatred and prejudice from society, reason 1) simply doesn't cut. If we also accept that homosexuality isn't a choice or some sort of mental illness (I'm not arguing this point, it isn't), then reason 2) doesn't hold either.

 

 

 

They don't need to teach gay marriage in schools because there is nothing to teach. They don't teach marriage at all and if they do it's a 1 minute reference in Health class. I get that you're just responding to fear of education of gay marriage, but it's simply an irrational fear (except for that bizarre field trip).

[Howlin0001]

 

Why not? You'll no doubt drill it into their head it's wrong when they're outside of school anyway. What's wrong with school giving them a balanced view of the world?

 

 

 

There are only two rational reasons why I can think people would honestly feel uncomfortable with their children receiving education on gay marriages:

 

 

 

1) Homophobia - simply put, they just don't like gays.

 

2) A fear of their children "choosing" to be homosexuals.

 

 

 

Now if we both accept it's in the national interest to remove hatred and prejudice from society, reason 1) simply doesn't cut. If we also accept that homosexuality isn't a choice or some sort of mental illness (I'm not arguing this point, it isn't), then reason 2) doesn't hold either.

 

 

 

They don't need to teach gay marriage in schools because there is nothing to teach. They don't teach marriage at all and if they do it's a 1 minute reference in Health class. I get that you're just responding to fear of education of gay marriage, but it's simply an irrational fear (except for that bizarre field trip).

 

 

 

Then why for the next few weeks are my class going to be talking about marriages (and learnign about them) in religion class?

[Quoi_Tu]

They don't need to teach gay marriage in schools because there is nothing to teach. They don't teach marriage at all and if they do it's a 1 minute reference in Health class. I get that you're just responding to fear of education of gay marriage, but it's simply an irrational fear (except for that bizarre field trip).

 

 

 

Then why for the next few weeks are my class going to be talking about marriages (and learnign about them) in religion class?

 

 

 

I assume you will be learning about different religious ceremonies bonding people and marriage in general between different cultures? Also, I made my point rather poorly. Marriage is marriage, whether between a man and woman or man and man or woman and woman. Why should a gay marriage hold any significance over a straight marriage or vice versa? In other words, teach marriage the same no matter the participants, but how much is there really to learn about marriage?

 

 

 

A few questions: Is your religion class required? What do you learn in it? I ask because I took a World Religions course in high school and we never talked about marriage (it honestly isn't that interesting of a topic).

[Howlin0001]

They don't need to teach gay marriage in schools because there is nothing to teach. They don't teach marriage at all and if they do it's a 1 minute reference in Health class. I get that you're just responding to fear of education of gay marriage, but it's simply an irrational fear (except for that bizarre field trip).

 

 

 

Then why for the next few weeks are my class going to be talking about marriages (and learnign about them) in religion class?

 

 

 

I assume you will be learning about different religious ceremonies bonding people and marriage in general between different cultures? Also, I made my point rather poorly. Marriage is marriage, whether between a man and woman or man and man or woman and woman. Why should a gay marriage hold any significance over a straight marriage or vice versa? In other words, teach marriage the same no matter the participants, but how much is there really to learn about marriage?

 

 

 

A few questions: Is your religion class required? What do you learn in it? I ask because I took a World Religions course in high school and we never talked about marriage (it honestly isn't that interesting of a topic).

 

 

 

Not sure about other religious ceremonies (I go to a Christian school)

 

But it is and it isn't, the religion classes are rotated between different teacher every 8 weeks or so, like one teacher might be covering Cults another Marriage another Sex etc

[Quoi_Tu]

Not sure about other religious ceremonies (I go to a Christian school)

 

But it is and it isn't, the religion classes are rotated between different teacher every 8 weeks or so, like one teacher might be covering Cults another Marriage another Sex etc

 

 

 

So you only learn about the Christian version of cults, marriage, sex, etc.?

[Howlin0001]

Not sure about other religious ceremonies (I go to a Christian school)

 

But it is and it isn't, the religion classes are rotated between different teacher every 8 weeks or so, like one teacher might be covering Cults another Marriage another Sex etc

 

 

 

So you only learn about the Christian version of cults, marriage, sex, etc.?

 

 

 

Going a bit off topic but

 

Well no, in the sex department were told about contraception and it's different methods and the cults were studied a few of them from some books but I don't think it was the Christian version.

 

But nothing was being forced upon us( like don't use contraception) only kind of advised what not to do.

 

 

 

 

 

*The word cults isn't what were ment to call them anymore, New religious movements is the correct term (I'm sorry I forgot about it and remembered as I was writing this post)*

 

 

 

(If anything else wants to be said can it be over pm seeing as this is ment to be a thread about homosexuality and not marriage and when are you counted as being human, it's kind of unfair to go off topic for the people who want to use this thread for what it was intended for, remember there is a whole forum out there for off topic stuff :P)

[meol]

Yeah, coming back to the original thread, I just 'stumbled upon' this small text. It's no religious essay and no scientific article, just a girl explaining a point of view.

 

It might be useful for the thread, you guys should really stop arguing about semantics, the validity of religious morals and more about the morals themselves. ;)

 

[Full Link]

 

[hide=Cut version]As a hetero girl raised in the church and brought up side by side with the kind of mentality that led to YES on 8!, I want to talk about the other side of the coin. I want you to understand that they dont hate you, they just dont understand.

 

 

 

They are scared. They are seeing their kids being raised in a world full of things that they dont want their kids exposed to.

 

 

 

And as they see their kids being pulled away from them into this huge and frightening world (this world some may see as their enemy) they struggle for any way they can maintain their control and influence. So when someone tells them that their kid may be taught that marriage is between any two consenting adults and that some men want to marry other men, they worry.

 

 

 

Its not that they hate any single gay person, honestly- they are just concerned about an entire world that is full of things they dont agree with. A world that often treats them as ignorant imbeciles, a world that portrays them as buck toothed hicks with a gun and a battered Bible, a world that acts as if they are nothing but watered-down Nazis.

 

 

 

A lot of these people are good loving people with only the best of intentions. They just dont want other people acting like they have a right or obligation to enlighten them or their children, they dont like being patronized, and honestly a lot of times they allow themselves to be manipulated by people with worse intentions than they have.

 

 

 

And they are scared.

 

 

 

Because its frightening, as a parent, when you realize that your kid may grow to hate everything you hold dear. Its hard to bear when you realize that you are no longer the source of their knowledge and security.

 

 

 

So please- dont be tempted into using the same sort of hateful and judgemental language that some are accusing the other side of using. Dont speak in broad terms that are cruel to decent people. Perfect love casts out all fear.[/hide]

 

I personally value the personal liberties of people highly (i.e. until there's a conflict with other's rights), I see no problem on allowing homosexual marriages because there is no harm done in there. As far as I know, there are differences between simple marriage and civil union, and bans on it will only increase inequality and prejudice.

 

Sure, allow churches to have their own preferences when marrying people. But allow state marriages that hold the same benefits as a religious marriage and that don't enforce this discrimination. The same would go for schools.

[J a m e s]

While I hold in equal regard that girl's opinion with anyone else's, I'm afraid I have to disagree with her. Just because parents are paranoid about their kids being open-minded doesn't mean they or their kids should be excused for their fear. Why do these kids' parents hold anti-gay-marriage dear? Why can't they handle the fact that they aren't their kids' only beacon of knowledge anymore? Why do these parents worry about their kids being taught that marriage is between "any two consenting adults?" I cannot understand these kinds of people.

 

 

 

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you...

[llcoolguy972]

They just dont want other people acting like they have a right or obligation to enlighten them.

 

I feel like this is all that needs to be said.

 

 

 

Edit: See below post. I guess more needed to be said. -.-

[purfishx]

They just dont want other people acting like they have a right or obligation to enlighten them.

 

I feel like this is all that needs to be said.

 

 

 

If that was all that was needed to be said, the discrimination would've ended long time ago.

 

 

 

So buddy, try again. :|

[Theoknight2]

if you're not messing with anyone else, you're fine to do whatever you wish. viz. if you dont impede on the pursuit of happiness of anyone else, and it makes you happy, you're fine. Pulled right out of the Constitution. ( but reworded)

[llcoolguy972]

They just dont want other people acting like they have a right or obligation to enlighten them.

 

I feel like this is all that needs to be said.

 

 

 

If that was all that was needed to be said, the discrimination would've ended long time ago.

 

 

 

So buddy, try again. :|

 

Obviously you missed the point. I was pointing out the irony that these people are the same type who try to "cure" homosexuality and are stopping gays from marrying because it's "wrong" and she's saying that they don't want others to cram unwanted and personal beliefs down their throats.

 

 

 

So thick you could cut it with a knife.

 

 

 

if you're not messing with anyone else, you're fine to do whatever you wish. viz. if you dont impede on the pursuit of happiness of anyone else, and it makes you happy, you're fine. Pulled right out of the Constitution. ( but reworded)

 

What part of the Constitution did that come from?

[J a m e s]

They just dont want other people acting like they have a right or obligation to enlighten them.

 

I feel like this is all that needs to be said.

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree, freedom of speech is overrated.

 

 

 

On a serious note: it is EXTREMELY ironic that she feels she has room to complain about discrimination against discriminating people like her.

 

 

 

Reminds me of how sad I am to know that the black population of California overwhelmingly supported Prop 8. Truly depressing that they can turn around and discriminate others as if they don't know what it feels like.

[magekillr]

Protest pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ginger_Warrior]

Ahh. I remember when I went on a equal rights march in Manchester many years ago. It was a campaign just for equal rights, let alone marriage. At the time, that idea was completely inconceivable! They just dismiss you as a bunch of liberal hippies but, it's nice to see people standing up for what they believe in rather than trying to eloquently word themselves to make them more presentable to the "middle ground".

 

 

 

I remember it was that march and watching Billie Elliot that sparked my interest in politics. I miss those sorts of rallies. The last one we had was for Iraq...

[magekillr]

It was a fun time. We had about 100 some odd people show up. I didn't expect many people here, though. It's a pretty conservative college. However, we had a lot of people cheering us on as we walked by.

 

 

 

It was a great day to protest too...it was "Open House". May have scared a few high schoolers away lol.

 

 

 

My favorite sign was: "I still can't believe that I have to protest this crap!", and then it had a check list with check marks filled in: "African American Rights" "Women's Rights", and then "Gay Rights" didn't have a check mark in it.

[saif]

was at a pro gay marriage protest today.

 

 

 

homosexuality ftw. love is love.

[anonymous1234]

was at a pro gay marriage protest today.

 

 

 

homosexuality ftw. love is love.

 

It sounds like a meme :lol:

[The Dark Lord]

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

-Article 11 of Treaty of Tripoli, 1796-1797; Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.

 

 

 

Thought that would be interesting.

[Sly_Wizard]

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

-Article 11 of Treaty of Tripoli, 1796-1797; Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.

 

 

 

Thought that would be interesting.

 

 

 

You left out how this Declaration was made to a primarily Muslim nation who was afraid the stronger U.S. would impose Christianity upon them. Treaties are meaningless. They are not laws, nor are they legally binding nor are they representative of the country. I cannot begin to tell you just how many treaties the U.S. has broken.

 

 

 

Just ask the native Americans.

[The Dark Lord]

...That automatically makes the United States a Christian theocracy?

[user1991]

It saddens me that we still have to have these discussions..

 

 

 

Even with all our technological advances; the internet, iPhones, cures for millions of diseases - we're still social animals. We fight for territory, we let our instincts get in the way of what we know is right.. Socially, we're just as backward as we always have been.

 

 

 

Don't be under the illusion that slavery doesn't exist.. If you're born poor you have to be a slave in order to be normal. It isn't at the point of a gun, but in a society where your "life" is measured by your acquisition of material goods, it might as well be.

 

 

 

We don't have segregation anymore - but people obviously haven't understood the ideal behind why we changed it. EVERYBODY IS EQUAL and there is not one thing you religious fundamentalists can do to change that. People tried to pull this "separate but equal" bull**** back in those times and there is no difference between that and you saying "well civil unions offer the same rights.." And you claim that your religions are "peaceful"?

 

 

 

Nevermind God - only when we rise as a people can we truly become immortal. And whilst the rich elites run the world, we the people, we sit around blaming eachother when we are the only thing they can never silence. Wake up and realise this.

 

 

 

Human rights, equality, freedom - politicians do not know the meaning of these words. No army can stop an idea whose time has come. Do not lay back and accept what these tyrants tell you. Fight for freedom, fight for the people and fight to the death.

[Sly_Wizard]

...That automatically makes the United States a Christian theocracy?

 

 

 

A theocracy? No. But a Christian nation? Kind of hard to argue otherwise.

 

 

 

EVERYBODY IS EQUAL and there is not one thing you religious fundamentalists can do to change that.

 

 

 

So why can't I run for POTUS? How come 15 year-olds can't marry? Why can't people with driver's lisences legally operate a vehicle? I thought everyone was created equal? -.-

 

 

 

I'm not so sure whether or not people understand that not only is everyone not created equal, but that *everyone* is "discriminated" against in some way, shape or form because of the nature of laws.

 

 

 

People tried to pull this "separate but equal" bull**** back in those times and there is no difference between that and you saying "well civil unions offer the same rights.." And you claim that your religions are "peaceful"?

 

 

 

Well, we could start stoning them. Then you could call us "non-peaceful".

 

 

 

Nevermind God - only when we rise as a people can we truly become immortal. And whilst the rich elites run the world, we the people, we sit around blaming eachother when we are the only thing they can never silence. Wake up and realise this.

 

 

 

Human rights, equality, freedom - politicians do not know the meaning of these words. No army can stop an idea whose time has come. Do not lay back and accept what these tyrants tell you. Fight for freedom, fight for the people and fight to the death.

 

 

 

Melodrama ftw!

[user1991]

...That automatically makes the United States a Christian theocracy?

 

 

 

A theocracy? No. But a Christian nation? Kind of hard to argue otherwise.

 

 

 

EVERYBODY IS EQUAL and there is not one thing you religious fundamentalists can do to change that.

 

 

 

So why can't I run for POTUS? How come 15 year-olds can't marry? Why can't people with driver's lisences legally operate a vehicle? I thought everyone was created equal? -.-

 

 

 

I'm not so sure whether or not people understand that not only is everyone not created equal, but that *everyone* is "discriminated" against in some way, shape or form because of the nature of laws.

 

 

 

There should be no law that people are made to obey by force and coercion. People aren't "created" equal, (no creation, no created, quit adding Christian rhetoric to everything, it ruins it). People are not equal in terms of intelligence, but without the restrictions we have placed upon ourselves, we are born equal.

 

 

 

 

 

People tried to pull this "separate but equal" bull**** back in those times and there is no difference between that and you saying "well civil unions offer the same rights.." And you claim that your religions are "peaceful"?

 

 

 

Well, we could start stoning them. Then you could call us "non-peaceful".

 

 

 

Stoning someone / denying them freedoms are just as bad as eachother.

 

 

 

 

 

Nevermind God - only when we rise as a people can we truly become immortal. And whilst the rich elites run the world, we the people, we sit around blaming eachother when we are the only thing they can never silence. Wake up and realise this.

 

 

 

Human rights, equality, freedom - politicians do not know the meaning of these words. No army can stop an idea whose time has come. Do not lay back and accept what these tyrants tell you. Fight for freedom, fight for the people and fight to the death.

 

 

 

Melodrama ftw!

 

 

 

You can laugh while you have the consensus Sly. People like you just don't get it.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Are you black?

[Sly_Wizard]

There should be no law that people are made to obey by force and coercion. People aren't "created" equal, (no creation, no created, quit adding Christian rhetoric to everything, it ruins it). People are not equal in terms of intelligence, but without the restrictions we have placed upon ourselves, we are born equal.

 

 

 

There should be no law that people are made to obey by force or coercion??? Surely, you jest.

 

 

 

Stoning someone / denying them freedoms are just as bad as eachother.

 

 

 

I deny people without a driver's license the ability to operate a motor vehicle. That's just as bad as stoning them???

 

 

 

 

 

You can laugh while you have the consensus Sly. People like you just don't get it.

 

 

 

 

There's nothing to get, aside from the humor to be found in blatant melodrama.

 

 

 

P.S. Are you black?

 

 

 

Nope. I'm African. We're one step ahead of black people.

 

 

 

(Yes, I kid.)