Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Guest]

Our morals shouldn't change,

 

Wow wow wow.

 

 

 

No, stop right there.

 

 

 

The moment you stop wishing to change your morals is the moment you stop growing. Cliche, but true. If you went by that credo your entire life, well, you'd still be in Stage One stuck with the morals of a infant.

 

 

 

And hey, as a naturally born stone cold pessimist I believe human beings are collectively dumber than a rock way much more than the next guy, but just because I don't have faith in mankind (hyperbolically of course) doesn't mean I'm not going to try and form morals in the only society I've got. Look past people's faults and try and learn a little, it'll do you some good in life.

 

 

 

You quoted half a sentence and then tried to argue upon half a sentence which didn't even state my point.

 

 

 

Here's what I wrote in full.

 

 

 

Our morals shouldn't change, just because society is more accepting of it. Especially considering that our society is going down hill, with more selfish, self centered people in this world. God doesn't change his views on how we should live, and neither should a Christian judge their morals on societies acceptance of certain acts.

 

 

 

As anyone could tell, we have very clear cut ways of life. I for one live by the morals of my creator which were set out in the Bible. I for one don't create my morals upon a society full of sin. You can, but I don't.

 

 

 

 

 

The moment you stop wishing to change your morals is the moment you stop growing.

 

 

 

Yeah stop growing in a negative direction. So if society decides that abortion is a legible thing to do, I should change my morals about murder and believe that its ok to have an abortion up until birth? Just because society is accepting of it? If society started accepting the killing of whales for scientific research, should I therefore not be against such an act, because society thinks its ok?

 

 

 

I'm glad not everybody in society has the same views as you, and some people actually have a backbone and stand by what they believe, because if they didn't I couldn't imagine the sinful, wicked society we'd live in.

[warri0r45]

 

@ Bold, Sure, you should have morals and standards. If you don't like what society states about an issue, by all means dissent. I'm not all that fond of some aspects of society myself.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

All of that aside, do you feel homosexulaity in particular is making society worse or more selfish? If so, in what way?

 

 

 

@ Your first statement. Thankyou I'm glad you accept my views and way of life, exactly like you accept a homosexuals way of life. I'm glad there's no hypocrisy there.

 

 

 

@ Your question. My answer to that is I believe whole-heartedly that homosexuality doesn't contribute to the good of society in anyway, and this act increasing won't help society as a whole in anyway. Its not making society more selfish, all of society as a whole is contributing to it becoming a more selfish generation. Hopefully we change this trend in our Western Societies but I'm quite pessimistic about it.

 

 

 

Television dosen't contribute to society either (it arguably harms, but that's beside the point). The question was not how it contributes, rather it was how it harms. I can of course accept that homosexuality is not a contributing factor to society, but so is a huge slab of other peripheral issues people seem to take no offence to whatsoever.

[Tigra00]

 

@ Bold, Sure, you should have morals and standards. If you don't like what society states about an issue, by all means dissent. I'm not all that fond of some aspects of society myself.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

All of that aside, do you feel homosexulaity in particular is making society worse or more selfish? If so, in what way?

 

 

 

@ Your first statement. Thankyou I'm glad you accept my views and way of life, exactly like you accept a homosexuals way of life. I'm glad there's no hypocrisy there.

 

 

 

@ Your question. My answer to that is I believe whole-heartedly that homosexuality doesn't contribute to the good of society in anyway, and this act increasing won't help society as a whole in anyway. Its not making society more selfish, all of society as a whole is contributing to it becoming a more selfish generation. Hopefully we change this trend in our Western Societies but I'm quite pessimistic about it.

 

 

 

The same could be said for you speaking in general.

 

 

 

Something doesn't have to be for the betterment of society in order for it to be done, you know. Video games don't make society any better, but you play them. Cigarettes don't help society, but people smoke them still.

 

 

 

You people are completely ignoring the fact that banning homosexual marriages is unconstitutional and going straight to, "But...the Bible says...", you know what? Who cares. Who cares what the freakin' Bible says. It also says to stone [bleep], something I'm sure you wouldn't take part in, would you? And if you're going to go to the whole "The new testament made that unecessary" crap, then hows about this...The new testament doesn't say squat about a guy doin' a guy. It's all about Jesus and his love for humanity, which you are completely ignoring and replacing with blatant homophobia. There's nothing wrong with gay people getting married just because you don't like it or because the Bible says it's icky. The bible says a lot of stuff, and a lot of it is crap.

[BlueLancer]

 

And for the record, prostitution doesn't hurt anyone

 

 

 

That's so wrong on many levels. Prostitution affects and hurts people on all levels of society. It hurts the women who were lied they'd get a nice office career in another country. It creates more workload for an already overworked police force. It spreads HIV/Aids even further. The tax authorities can't tax that income.

 

 

 

You can't even start to compare prostitution to being gay. Prostitution is a business. Being gay is a biological feature which doesn't hurt anybody or affect anybodys life other than that of your partner and direct family possibly.

 

 

 

Our morals shouldn't change, just because society is more accepting of it.

 

 

 

As far as I understood people, including you, still survive today because they adapted to the current reality. Your ancestors could've been vegans eating berries and vegetables for thousands of years, but if the climate started getting cold and crops died, they started eating meat to survive. (Not a direct analogy though because there were gay people even back then, they probably werent interested in reproducing though)

 

 

 

Sure you can survive with racist/homophobic/demeaning 'religious' values, just probably not to an extent you'll become any significant success in life.

 

 

 

You know, doing business or working anywhere these days means understanding and accepting people are different than you. Over 70% of the world's population isn't christian and don't conform to your values. You should understand that. I understood that a long time ago (yes, I was baptized at birth)

[DaN]

In the 21st im surprised that anyone could question whether or not its ok for people to love each other.

[Tigra00]

Holy crap, did you guys see that thing the just flew out the window? It looked kinda' like Eels' credability. What was left of it, anyways. I almost missed it it was so small, shriveled and dried up. However, the screams for help and salvation from this madman were hard to miss. Poor thing. RIP, Credability. We never knew him.

 

 

 

Prostitution hurts no one...It's the quote of the century. No, not because it was a genius literary masterpeice, but because it was so goddamned retarded that "retarded" didn't feel like enough to call it, I actually had to have an almighty deity "damn" it officially for it to be enough. See? I got the seal of approval right here. *Slap* Ha. You totally fell for that one.

 

 

 

Prostitution hurts EVERYONE involved. Every single prostitute, every single customer, and even some people who don't wish to be involved at all. The vast majority of prostitute have STD's, and so do their customers, passed from one to another, surely. That's just the OBVIOUS negative effects. Then, there are the weird freakin' dudes who demand the younger girls. Oh yea, we're not talking 18 year olds here, we're talking 6 to 17 year olds, but generally speaking for this example, it's probably more like 6 to 13. Yes, we're talking about the girls sold and kidnapped and forced into sex slavery! Wooo! That surely doesn't hurt those little girls. Infact, I'd wager they signed the permission slip for that little adventure! Free STD's, self-degradation, NO self-esteem, because, honestly, forget about having low self-esteem, they wouldn't have any at all, and finally, the years of doing it all for nothing. Yes, I can think of no better way to spend my childhood...Being raped several times per day before I'm even able to comprehend what the HELL is going on! But no matter, it hurts no one. Afterall, Eels said it doesn't, and the Bible is on his side...See, it says right here...Homo's are evil, and prostitution is...Oh wait, nevermind, it doesn't say that's fine. Crap.

 

 

 

Dear Almighty God in Heaven, why do you allow such retards to follow you? I look to the sky and beg you for the enlightenment. Why do the lemmings flock to you and chant your teachings, obviously knowing nothing and being too damned stupid to understand it? Why couldn't you have made them atheists? Why couldn't you pick the smart ones to follow you? I'm entirely uncapable of believing fully in you due to my intellect, but for some reason, you reward the stupid. I ask you, O' merciful God, why must you torture the better of us?

 

 

 

I can think of only one answer to which God would reply to me: "Evolution, my child. If you listen carefully, the stupid ones are against Evolution, and they are my followers. They have not evolved. YOU, however, have evolved, thus, I must hate you with them. Sorry, I'm kinda' a fad guy." and then God would flip his emo-comb-over out of his eye, only for it to fall back down in front of it, to which he would bite his lip ring in frustration.

 

 

 

Stupid emo's.

 

 

 

Sorry...I like to have fun while making fun of the disabled. Would you punch a handicapped kid in the face? Of course not, that's mean. You'd roll him down a hill in his wheel-chair and hope he had fun, because if he did...You did him a favour! It's a 50/50 chance, really.

[Rebdragon]

You quoted half a sentence and then tried to argue upon half a sentence which didn't even state my point.

 

No, if you read the rest of my post you'll see I was responding to your post in it's entirety. I merely singled that half-sentence out because of the absurdity of it.

 

 

 

Here's what I wrote in full.

 

 

 

Our morals shouldn't change, just because society is more accepting of it. Especially considering that our society is going down hill, with more selfish, self centered people in this world. God doesn't change his views on how we should live, and neither should a Christian judge their morals on societies acceptance of certain acts.

 

 

 

As anyone could tell, we have very clear cut ways of life. I for one live by the morals of my creator which were set out in the Bible. I for one don't create my morals upon a society full of sin. You can, but I don't.

 

But you're forgeting one thing when you make that statement, form that belief: the morals of humankind didn't stem from Christianity, no, it's the other way around. Christianity's morals stemmed from the morals of society.

 

 

 

I suppose our difference lies in the fact that I don't consider a book written by men to be the Word of God. Society isn't as bad as you think it is Eels- though people often make decisions against the general moral code, they do so in knowing the good moral code set by society, a moral code that shifts and adapts to new times and occurances in the world. That's the problem I have with living by the morals of a book thousands of years old- the ethics imbedded into it are for a time long before ours.

 

 

 

And for that matter, having a dogmatic opinion that your belief is the truth is a dangerous path to follow. Don't accept the morals that are given to you blindly, even if they are from Christianity. Think for yourself, think of how those morals fit into society, think how they affect the world. Be willing to admit that you can be wrong.

 

 

 

That's the problem I've got with discriminating against homosexuality based on religion. The foundations of religion are thousands of years old, and they are not capable of adapting to new events if they dogmatically stay static in their morals.

 

 

 

That's why we're asking you this question: why is it that you are against homosexuality, other than your religion? Morality requires that you think for yourself. What about homosexuality is wrong and sinful to you?

 

 

 

The moment you stop wishing to change your morals is the moment you stop growing.

 

 

 

Yeah stop growing in a negative direction. So if society decides that abortion is a legible thing to do, I should change my morals about murder and believe that its ok to have an abortion up until birth? Just because society is accepting of it? If society started accepting the killing of whales for scientific research, should I therefore not be against such an act, because society thinks its ok?

 

 

 

I'm glad not everybody in society has the same views as you, and some people actually have a backbone and stand by what they believe, because if they didn't I couldn't imagine the sinful, wicked society we'd live in.

 

Oh please :roll: . Society isn't composed of barbaric tribes nowadays Eels. We have a good foundation of morality that you can easily learn much from. Is some pastor feeding you this crud that Christianity is the only moral thing in the world, and that everywhere else people are raw evil? C'mon dude, you know better than that.

 

 

 

So if society decides that abortion is a legible thing to do, I should change my morals about murder and believe that its ok to have an abortion up until birth?

 

Almost everyone who's "pro-choice" sets a limit on abortion around three months after conception, or less. The legalization of abortion won't allow the killing of viable infants.

 

 

 

If society started accepting the killing of whales for scientific research, should I therefore not be against such an act, because society thinks its ok?

 

In that scenario, that's why I ask that you think for yourself- if you find something wrong with a new moral code that seems to be permeating through society, protest, fight for what you believe is right, but only after carefully examining the situation. For example, if someday in the future all species except whales and humans were to become extinct (don't ask how, it's hypothetical) and they were our only form of available nutrition, I'd be fine with hunting and eating any part of them that's usable for our bodies. Or, if scientifically examining and possibly killing half-a-dozen whales would guarentee finding the cure to AIDS, I would be an advocate for it. Times changes, the world changes, so why shouldn't your morals ever change?

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, have more faith in society. It'll do you some good once you get off the computer and into the real world.

[Nadril]

 

@ Bold, Sure, you should have morals and standards. If you don't like what society states about an issue, by all means dissent. I'm not all that fond of some aspects of society myself.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

All of that aside, do you feel homosexulaity in particular is making society worse or more selfish? If so, in what way?

 

 

 

@ Your first statement. Thankyou I'm glad you accept my views and way of life, exactly like you accept a homosexuals way of life. I'm glad there's no hypocrisy there.

 

 

 

@ Your question. My answer to that is I believe whole-heartedly that homosexuality doesn't contribute to the good of society in anyway, and this act increasing won't help society as a whole in anyway. Its not making society more selfish, all of society as a whole is contributing to it becoming a more selfish generation. Hopefully we change this trend in our Western Societies but I'm quite pessimistic about it.

 

 

 

Stop beating around the bush, how does homosexuality HURT society?

 

 

 

 

 

You know, if I really wanted to I could say that homosexuality does help, as a method of population control. If someone is homosexual than their only means of a child is to adopt (or if it is a female to find a sperm donor) but none the less its still significant. With all the overpopulating in the world today its good to be able to not have everyone popping out babies non-stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There, a reason why homosexuality helps society. Now that that is out of the way tell me why homosexuality hurts society.

 

 

 

 

 

Also you know its possible to be Christian but not do anything right? There are a lot of religious people who don't pick up a finger to help anyone, should I lump them in with the entire religion and say it doesn't do anything? No, that would be unfair. Like any major group of people some do more than others to help society. There are many people who are gay that also help and contribute a lot to society, stop thinking of everything as a group and more as individuals and you too would see that.

[guss]

I dare u to be gay tomarrow, I DARE U TO ASK OUT THE FIRST GUY U SEE(NON RELATED) can you do it? your unable to and its not choice. ITS UNCONTROLABLE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way homosexuality is uncontrollable? Yeah right, we all have free will and all are able to make our own decisions in life. Stop trying to make out that homosexuality doesn't involve any pre-made decisions with free-will involved on the behalf of the person committing the act.

[yomom1919]

@ Your question. My answer to that is I believe whole-heartedly that homosexuality doesn't contribute to the good of society in anyway, and this act increasing won't help society as a whole in anyway. Its not making society more selfish, all of society as a whole is contributing to it becoming a more selfish generation. Hopefully we change this trend in our Western Societies but I'm quite pessimistic about it.

 

 

 

@Nadril, I disproved his Christianity vs. Homosexuality in my post on the 23rd page.

 

 

 

I think everyone arguing with him should turn the tables. Instead of arguing that homosexuality is not detrimental [and Nadril, I completely agree with your population control statement, I was going to mention something similar], why not just confront him logically and ask:

 

 

 

Why is homosexuality supposed to be beneficial in the first place?

 

 

 

Homosexuality is ONLY [and I can't emphasize this enough] sexual orientation. Thats all it is! It's like being male, female, black, white, straight, gay, smart, dumb etc. Its what you were born with, and its only your basic characteristics. If you treat someone a particular way due those traits mentioned above, you are a very ignorant and prejudice person.

 

 

 

If homosexuality is only sexual orientation [which it is], then let me ask you, setting reproduction aside: How do straight people benefit society? Homosexuals can reproduce too, you know. Their genitalia are in perfect condition. The only difference between reproduction between a straight and straight vs straight and gay is that the homosexual doesn't enjoy it as much as a straight person would. I'm sure that if the entire world became magically homosexual, people would devise some sort of childbearing system.

 

 

 

And as for your Christian vs. Homosexual benefits, to add a new point, you cant compare the two! Homosexuality, as I mentioned before, is only a basic human characteristic of sexual orientation. Christianity is a complex belief system, and its not a natural occurrence whatsoever. Lets replace 'homosexual' with 'male' for a second. Heres how ignorant you sound "Christians benefit more than males". Now, how much sense does that make? Your comparing chairs to apples. There can be black Christians, smart Christians, gay Christians, etc. Your beginning characteristics as a human have nothing to do with your belief system, and you can't compare the two. I don't understand why you think it was logical to compare them...

[guss]

Most of us can agree that "Man" has recked the envorment enough to say population is going to go down the drain anyways. can we facethat even if it is...That that part is the least of our problems thesedays.

 

 

 

 

 

Chalenge read the bibal, dont just say you know the facts, because you heard someone els,KIDS dont remember half the facts given, that why half of us study for finals and pass.

[Guest]

Wow, now there is just way to many posts to reply to here (I feel like Defender now).

 

 

 

Ok I'll just make a couple of statements just to show my point a little clearer.

 

 

 

You know, doing business or working anywhere these days means understanding and accepting people are different than you. Over 70% of the world's population isn't christian and don't conform to your values. You should understand that. I understood that a long time ago (yes, I was baptized at birth)

 

 

 

I fully understand and accept the other cultures out there, we're actually asked to in the Bible. Now if I could make one thing clear out of all my posts on this thread is the fact that I accept the people and that being how they are, whether they were born like that or made that personal decision its irrelevant. But that doesn't mean I have to accept their action. There's a clear difference there, and I'm not going to point it out again considering we had this discussion 2 pages back.

 

 

 

Stop beating around the bush, how does homosexuality HURT society?

 

 

 

In today's society it doesn't. Didn't I already make that clear early on? :? Yet am I not allowed to disagree with the act due to my religious beliefs but still accept the person?

 

 

 

Oh and Tigra well done on showing up my stupid comment. I must admit I didn't think through it clearly, and made a spontaneous comment, and will forever be hurt that my credibility on an internet forum has been destroyed. I'm sure its going to deeply affect me emotionally in the real world. Good flame, either way, I enjoyed it. :wink:

[warri0r45]

Wow, now there is just way to many posts to reply to here (I feel like Defender now).

 

 

 

Ok I'll just make a couple of statements just to show my point a little clearer.

 

 

 

You know, doing business or working anywhere these days means understanding and accepting people are different than you. Over 70% of the world's population isn't christian and don't conform to your values. You should understand that. I understood that a long time ago (yes, I was baptized at birth)

 

 

 

I fully understand and accept the other cultures out there, we're actually asked to in the Bible. Now if I could make one thing clear out of all my posts on this thread is the fact that I accept the people and that being how they are, whether they were born like that or made that personal decision its irrelevant. But that doesn't mean I have to accept their action. There's a clear difference there, and I'm not going to point it out again considering we had this discussion 2 pages back.

 

 

 

Stop beating around the bush, how does homosexuality HURT society?

 

 

 

In today's society it doesn't. Didn't I already make that clear early on? :? Yet am I not allowed to disagree with the act due to my religious beliefs but still accept the person?

 

 

 

Oh and Tigra well done on showing up my stupid comment. I must admit I didn't think through it clearly, and made a spontaneous comment, and will forever be hurt that my credibility on an internet forum has been destroyed. I'm sure its going to deeply affect me emotionally in the real world. Good flame, either way, I enjoyed it. :wink:

 

 

 

So do you now accept the possibility that it's not actually a choice to be of a particular sexual orientation? You may remember my arguing you on this issue a few pages back in which I presented various quotes and sources.

 

 

 

And thanks for the response to my (and others) queries on how homosexuality harms society.

[yomom1919]

Yet am I not allowed to disagree with the act due to my religious beliefs but still accept the person?

 

 

 

I think the main point of this thread is to gain some insight on exactly why religious beliefs should deem homosexuality unnatural or immoral. Many people, myself included, are confused because, up to this point, Christian people and Catholic officials have provided no logical or convincing arguments to back their point up. My point being, I would like too see why your religious belief is your, well, belief. There must be a reason behind a spiritual text merely deeming it, and I trust their is.

[Tigra00]

Wow, now there is just way to many posts to reply to here (I feel like Defender now).

 

 

 

Ok I'll just make a couple of statements just to show my point a little clearer.

 

 

 

You know, doing business or working anywhere these days means understanding and accepting people are different than you. Over 70% of the world's population isn't christian and don't conform to your values. You should understand that. I understood that a long time ago (yes, I was baptized at birth)

 

 

 

I fully understand and accept the other cultures out there, we're actually asked to in the Bible. Now if I could make one thing clear out of all my posts on this thread is the fact that I accept the people and that being how they are, whether they were born like that or made that personal decision its irrelevant. But that doesn't mean I have to accept their action. There's a clear difference there, and I'm not going to point it out again considering we had this discussion 2 pages back.

 

 

 

Stop beating around the bush, how does homosexuality HURT society?

 

 

 

In today's society it doesn't. Didn't I already make that clear early on? :? Yet am I not allowed to disagree with the act due to my religious beliefs but still accept the person?

 

 

 

Oh and Tigra well done on showing up my stupid comment. I must admit I didn't think through it clearly, and made a spontaneous comment, and will forever be hurt that my credibility on an internet forum has been destroyed. I'm sure its going to deeply affect me emotionally in the real world. Good flame, either way, I enjoyed it. :wink:

 

 

 

Just havin' fun.

[Tigra00]

if more branches of cristians became Jahovas witnesses, we would except homocexuality.

 

 

 

Uhhh...Jehova's Witnesses frown upon it aswell...

 

 

 

Completely serious question I just thought of:

 

 

 

If you guys against homosexuality - based on what the Bible says - are truely not hateful little bigot's, then why is it that you aren't also rallying for making adultery in general illegal? How about lying? Lying shouldbe illegal too. The Bible says so. And before you cop-out and say "Lawl, everyone lies...How would you control that law?" I can only then say, if everyone lies (you included), who are you to judge some dude kissing another dude? You're no better. I'm pretty sure God didn't list the 10 commandments in order of least to most severity of committence or visa-versa. What, lying is acceptable just because you partake in it, or what? Sounds like hypocracy to me, and I thought God frowned upon being a hypocrite...Meh. Oh well.

 

 

 

But seriously, you guys are all bigots, and it's kinda' embarassing to watch you try to explain why you're not. I like to watch Christian leaders on TV...

 

 

 

Reporter: Why are you rallying against gays?

 

Christian d00d: We aren't rallying against anyone. We're rallying FOR marriage! *sly smile, as if he's the first one to think of it because he's infinately clever*

 

Reporter: But, you're...

 

Christian d00d: Nope.

 

Reporter: You completely deny that you're rallying against...

 

Christian d00d: Yep.

 

Reporter: So you're for gay marriage, then?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: Yea, gays want to get married.

 

Christian d00d: Yes, and that is what we're against, because marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

Reporter: So again, you're against gay marriage?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: *Sigh*

 

 

 

Swear to god something like that was on CNN the other day. The reporter didn't sigh, they just cut the interview and went along. It's really embarassing to watch, the whole time the Christian dude has a stupid smug, clever smile on his face, as if he's fooling anyone.

[Defender2516]

if more branches of cristians became Jahovas witnesses, we would except homocexuality.

 

 

 

Uhhh...Jehova's Witnesses frown upon it aswell...

 

 

 

Completely serious question I just thought of:

 

 

 

If you guys against homosexuality - based on what the Bible says - are truely not hateful little bigot's, then why is it that you aren't also rallying for making adultery in general illegal? How about lying? Lying shouldbe illegal too. The Bible says so. And before you cop-out and say "Lawl, everyone lies...How would you control that law?" I can only then say, if everyone lies (you included), who are you to judge some dude kissing another dude? You're no better. I'm pretty sure God didn't list the 10 commandments in order of least to most severity of committence or visa-versa. What, lying is acceptable just because you partake in it, or what? Sounds like hypocracy to me, and I thought God frowned upon being a hypocrite...Meh. Oh well.

 

 

 

But seriously, you guys are all bigots, and it's kinda' embarassing to watch you try to explain why you're not. I like to watch Christian leaders on TV...

 

 

 

Reporter: Why are you rallying against gays?

 

Christian d00d: We aren't rallying against anyone. We're rallying FOR marriage! *sly smile, as if he's the first one to think of it because he's infinately clever*

 

Reporter: But, you're...

 

Christian d00d: Nope.

 

Reporter: You completely deny that you're rallying against...

 

Christian d00d: Yep.

 

Reporter: So you're for gay marriage, then?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: Yea, gays want to get married.

 

Christian d00d: Yes, and that is what we're against, because marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

Reporter: So again, you're against gay marriage?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: *Sigh*

 

 

 

Swear to god something like that was on CNN the other day. The reporter didn't sigh, they just cut the interview and went along. It's really embarassing to watch, the whole time the Christian dude has a stupid smug, clever smile on his face, as if he's fooling anyone.

 

 

 

Yes Tigra, your the first one to notice us evil little christians scheming in the background. I don't know how you figured it out or how it got passed you..! :roll:

 

 

 

Please, I know not all christians are very intelligent or come off as blind faith, but stop using sterotypes that we are all like that, stupid and hateful.

 

 

 

Most christians (most because I cannot speak for everyone), do not hate gay people, they hate the act of it. Thats like if your mom enjoyed killing people, you would tell her to stop, not because you hate her, but because the act she is doing is wrong.

 

 

 

Christians believe the act of homosexuality is wrong and therefor go against the act, not the person of the act.

 

 

 

Now your saying "why not just let them do it?", well maybe we should just let them kill people?

 

 

 

Are you gay Tigra? I would say no because you have a girlfriend, but why are you vouching for people to do those things? I don't want to go to a restaurant and see two guys making love moves at each other. Thats disgusting. Thats a natural reaction from my body, not just something I decided to say "Well I don't like it so i'll feel disgusted everytime I see it". No, it comes naturally, and i'm sure most men have the same reaction.

 

 

 

And its not hating anyone, if I see two gays, i'm not out to get them, and try to make their life miserable, I just hate what they are doing. Its sickening and to say something like that is Okay and Right is pathetic IMO.

 

 

 

Every child has the right to a mother and father. To have two of the same gender as a parent is stupid IMO. You lose one role in the house such as father provider/worker or the other nuture/loving moms. This does not mean the kid will come out defective or bad, but to say he cannot have a mom/dad just because two guys/gals wanted to get with each other is wrong.

 

 

 

You can keep claiming homsexuality is right but I will keep comming back at you and say its wrong because it is and its obvious to see why. You really must have to look hard in the mirror everyday and say "homsexuality is right" tons of times to convince yourself of that one.

 

 

 

~Defender~

[guss]

if more branches of cristians became Jahovas witnesses, we would except homocexuality.

 

 

 

Uhhh...Jehova's Witnesses frown upon it aswell...

 

 

 

I like to watch Christian leaders on TV...

 

 

 

Reporter: Why are you rallying against gays?

 

Christian d00d: We aren't rallying against anyone. We're rallying FOR marriage! *sly smile, as if he's the first one to think of it because he's infinately clever*

 

Reporter: But, you're...

 

Christian d00d: Nope.

 

Reporter: You completely deny that you're rallying against...

 

Christian d00d: Yep.

 

Reporter: So you're for gay marriage, then?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: Yea, gays want to get married.

 

Christian d00d: Yes, and that is what we're against, because marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

Reporter: So again, you're against gay marriage?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: *Sigh*

 

 

 

Swear to god something like that was on CNN the other day. The reporter didn't sigh, they just cut the interview and went along. It's really embarassing to watch, the whole time the Christian dude has a stupid smug, clever smile on his face, as if he's fooling anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

A JW friend of mine(i met at a metal show)said aslong as they dont sleep together they are ok in with his religion,by the way, he has gay friends.

 

 

 

 

 

How did you get that interview, your just lucky i guess.

[SuziAngel]

A JW friend of mine(i met at a metal show)said aslong as they dont sleep together they are ok in with his religion,by the way, he has gay friends.

 

 

 

Well, that makes it all okay then. As we are all perfectly aware, most homosexual relationships involve little more than meeting up for milk and cookies.

[Tigra00]

if more branches of cristians became Jahovas witnesses, we would except homocexuality.

 

 

 

Uhhh...Jehova's Witnesses frown upon it aswell...

 

 

 

Completely serious question I just thought of:

 

 

 

If you guys against homosexuality - based on what the Bible says - are truely not hateful little bigot's, then why is it that you aren't also rallying for making adultery in general illegal? How about lying? Lying shouldbe illegal too. The Bible says so. And before you cop-out and say "Lawl, everyone lies...How would you control that law?" I can only then say, if everyone lies (you included), who are you to judge some dude kissing another dude? You're no better. I'm pretty sure God didn't list the 10 commandments in order of least to most severity of committence or visa-versa. What, lying is acceptable just because you partake in it, or what? Sounds like hypocracy to me, and I thought God frowned upon being a hypocrite...Meh. Oh well.

 

 

 

But seriously, you guys are all bigots, and it's kinda' embarassing to watch you try to explain why you're not. I like to watch Christian leaders on TV...

 

 

 

Reporter: Why are you rallying against gays?

 

Christian d00d: We aren't rallying against anyone. We're rallying FOR marriage! *sly smile, as if he's the first one to think of it because he's infinately clever*

 

Reporter: But, you're...

 

Christian d00d: Nope.

 

Reporter: You completely deny that you're rallying against...

 

Christian d00d: Yep.

 

Reporter: So you're for gay marriage, then?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: Yea, gays want to get married.

 

Christian d00d: Yes, and that is what we're against, because marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

Reporter: So again, you're against gay marriage?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: *Sigh*

 

 

 

Swear to god something like that was on CNN the other day. The reporter didn't sigh, they just cut the interview and went along. It's really embarassing to watch, the whole time the Christian dude has a stupid smug, clever smile on his face, as if he's fooling anyone.

 

 

 

Yes Tigra, your the first one to notice us evil little christians scheming in the background. I don't know how you figured it out or how it got passed you..! :roll:

 

 

 

Please, I know not all christians are very intelligent or come off as blind faith, but stop using sterotypes that we are all like that, stupid and hateful.

 

 

 

Most christians (most because I cannot speak for everyone), do not hate gay people, they hate the act of it. Thats like if your mom enjoyed killing people, you would tell her to stop, not because you hate her, but because the act she is doing is wrong.

 

 

 

Christians believe the act of homosexuality is wrong and therefor go against the act, not the person of the act.

 

 

 

Now your saying "why not just let them do it?", well maybe we should just let them kill people?

 

 

 

Are you gay Tigra? I would say no because you have a girlfriend, but why are you vouching for people to do those things? I don't want to go to a restaurant and see two guys making love moves at each other. Thats disgusting. Thats a natural reaction from my body, not just something I decided to say "Well I don't like it so i'll feel disgusted everytime I see it". No, it comes naturally, and i'm sure most men have the same reaction.

 

 

 

And its not hating anyone, if I see two gays, i'm not out to get them, and try to make their life miserable, I just hate what they are doing. Its sickening and to say something like that is Okay and Right is pathetic IMO.

 

 

 

Every child has the right to a mother and father. To have two of the same gender as a parent is stupid IMO. You lose one role in the house such as father provider/worker or the other nuture/loving moms. This does not mean the kid will come out defective or bad, but to say he cannot have a mom/dad just because two guys/gals wanted to get with each other is wrong.

 

 

 

You can keep claiming homsexuality is right but I will keep comming back at you and say its wrong because it is and its obvious to see why. You really must have to look hard in the mirror everyday and say "homsexuality is right" tons of times to convince yourself of that one.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Who said you all were stupid and hateful? I asked a question, and said that if you cannot provide an adequate answer, then you're just a bigot who is against homosexuals for no other reason than it disturbs you because you think it's "icky". What do you know, that's exactly how you responded. It was all "me, me, me!" in your responce. It "sickens YOU", it "disturbs YOU" it's "disgusting to YOU". Since when did we all get on our knees and bow to your awesome will and power? I can't recall this event taking place, and until it does, kindly stop acting as if the world should get on it's knees and beg you for enlightenment.

 

 

 

Again, I ask...Why do you not rally to make the other 10 commandments illegal? Lying, adultery in general...Why are they not being rallied to be made illegal in law? I'll tell you why...It's because people who rally against homosexuals (and make no mistake, it IS against homosexuals, not FOR marriage between a man and a woman, that's BS) do not like homosexuals. You're the prime example and you didn't even know it, apparently. You say you don't want to go into a resturaunt and see two gay dudes kissing because you think it's disgusting. Well, good for you. I'd probably find it odd if I saw it at first because I'm not used to seeing it - it isn't the norm - but I'm not going to sneer as if I'm better than them and say they're filthy. You, sir, are a bigot. As are your comrades here. You are apparently oblivious to it though, and surely, you always will be save for some enlightening event happening, which is unlikely. Perhaps two gay men will be kissing in an alley you happen to get mugged in and they'll help you out and you'll think they're not so bad afterall. Doubt it, but whatever.

 

 

 

I'm pitiful because I find nothing wrong with gay people being happy together? Look, you're the pitiful one here. You're one of the R-tards who want to keep these people from being happy just because you're "disgusted" by the sight of them! How does that make YOU right and me "pitiful"? Look, I'm not gay, but apparently you think I have to be in order to see a gay point of view (you pondered on if I was gay or not for defending gays, good job...), which is another sign of your bigotry. You think that in order to understand a human issue, I must be takin' it in the butt from said issue. You're the pitiful one, dude. The thing is - gay people aren't hurting you. What you're trying to do is the equivalent of banning ugly people from kissing because you don't want to see ugly people because they're "icky". Why aren't you rallying against ugly people? Don't they disgust you? Oh, right...You just have something against GAY people. Hmm, seems you're singling out a group of people, here...What do they call that, again? I totally, totally forget. :roll:

 

 

 

I like your sarcsam. You think Christians "scheming in the background" is being sarcastic. I don't. You may not scheme in the background, but only because you do not have the power or authority to do so - but all of your leaders do. I can't think of a damned decent one of your leaders. Not a single one. With the slew of hate-mongers, war-mongers, apocolypse-worshippers, zionists, theives, gold-diggers, scammers, false prophets and preachers who preach hate against gays and then go out and smoke meth and hump gay dudes ('Sup, Ted?), I seriously can't think of a decent one alive. They're all disgusting to me. But the difference between you and I is that I let them run around doing their thing. I can talk bad about them all I want and that just makes me an [wagon], but you, on the other hand, want to talk bad about AND persecute a group of people, stripping them of their rights! I've said it 1,000 times here, banning gay marriage is unconstitutional and that is the bottom line. You're denying legitimate couples the right to tax breaks that they deserve just as much as the next couple. Just because they're Ted and Steve instead of Ted and Julie doesn't make a damned bit of difference.

 

 

 

As for gay people having kids - who the hell said anything about that being right OR wrong? Gay people really don't have any right to have kids. They can't have them themselves, they can only adopt them or get them via surogate mothers, the former being a process in which an angency can easily say "Umm, children do better with a mom and dad" and have that be that. The latter, I'm not sure about. But whatever, either way, I'd rather trust my kid to an entire football field filled with gay dudes than with one singular Christian family...I have a feeling he'd grow up and be a lot less [bleep]ed up in the head. Isn't it sad that I can say that with absolute seriousness? Sorry, I don't want my kid growing up calling himself a "warrior of god" and all this other [cabbage]. Christians are turning their kids into what Muslims do to their kids to combat Muslim extremism themselves (as if that'd work...there is one major flaw - YOU CAN'T KILL ANYTHING, IT'S AGAINST YOUR RELIGION!) and it's ridiculous. At least with a bunch of gay dudes, my kid can still grow up and be straight. Maybe he wouldn't even miss having a mom...I mean, a lot of gay dudes are pretty damn feminine.

 

 

 

Stop sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "LALALALALA!" when people try to talk to you. No one is trying to even prove homosexuality is "right" or "wrong" as a natural thing, you're the only one trying to do that. Is it natural? Who gives a damn. It sure isn't supernatural, is it? Didn't think so. What we're arguing is that gay people are gay weither you like it or not, and you CANNOT persecute them just because your book says it's "wrong". Your book means absolutely nothing to a majority of the population, and you REALLY need to learn that.

 

 

 

And I don't look at myself in the mirror and say "Homosexuality is right!" ever. Never have. I don't have to. All I know is that it's very, very wrong to stick your nose where it doesn't belong and try to control people's lives. These people are people too. They have lives and they just want to be happy, and you just won't have it. Know who else used to do that? The Ku Klux Klan...The Nazi's...All the blacks/jews wanted was to just chill and be happy, and the KKK/Nazi's (respectively) ran around killing them. Essentially, you're doing the same, and I stick to what I said and always will - you are a bigot.

[Satenza]

 

You can keep claiming homsexuality is right but I will keep comming back at you and say its wrong because it is and its obvious to see why. You really must have to look hard in the mirror everyday and say "homsexuality is right" tons of times to convince yourself of that one.

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

Yet it is you who can't give one fullproof reason why it's wrong. How ironic for you.

 

 

 

Ironically enough, you don't have an absolute basis for right or wrong.

 

 

 

I do not claim it to be right or wrong. I do not need an "absolute basis" because when it comes down to it your "absolute basis" of morality is less justified than anything, because you may beleive whatever you like is divine word but a belief in reality amounts to nothing without empirical proof. So go ahead and continue to disillusion yourself, just don't persecute members of society over it. The only place you should act on that subjective belief is in your head until you bring some objective truth to the world.

[warri0r45]

if more branches of cristians became Jahovas witnesses, we would except homocexuality.

 

 

 

Uhhh...Jehova's Witnesses frown upon it aswell...

 

 

 

Completely serious question I just thought of:

 

 

 

If you guys against homosexuality - based on what the Bible says - are truely not hateful little bigot's, then why is it that you aren't also rallying for making adultery in general illegal? How about lying? Lying shouldbe illegal too. The Bible says so. And before you cop-out and say "Lawl, everyone lies...How would you control that law?" I can only then say, if everyone lies (you included), who are you to judge some dude kissing another dude? You're no better. I'm pretty sure God didn't list the 10 commandments in order of least to most severity of committence or visa-versa. What, lying is acceptable just because you partake in it, or what? Sounds like hypocracy to me, and I thought God frowned upon being a hypocrite...Meh. Oh well.

 

 

 

But seriously, you guys are all bigots, and it's kinda' embarassing to watch you try to explain why you're not. I like to watch Christian leaders on TV...

 

 

 

Reporter: Why are you rallying against gays?

 

Christian d00d: We aren't rallying against anyone. We're rallying FOR marriage! *sly smile, as if he's the first one to think of it because he's infinately clever*

 

Reporter: But, you're...

 

Christian d00d: Nope.

 

Reporter: You completely deny that you're rallying against...

 

Christian d00d: Yep.

 

Reporter: So you're for gay marriage, then?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: Yea, gays want to get married.

 

Christian d00d: Yes, and that is what we're against, because marriage should be between a man and a woman.

 

Reporter: So again, you're against gay marriage?

 

Christian d00d: No, we're for marriage.

 

Reporter: *Sigh*

 

 

 

Swear to god something like that was on CNN the other day. The reporter didn't sigh, they just cut the interview and went along. It's really embarassing to watch, the whole time the Christian dude has a stupid smug, clever smile on his face, as if he's fooling anyone.

 

 

 

Yes Tigra, your the first one to notice us evil little christians scheming in the background. I don't know how you figured it out or how it got passed you..! :roll:

 

 

 

Please, I know not all christians are very intelligent or come off as blind faith, but stop using sterotypes that we are all like that, stupid and hateful.

 

 

 

Most christians (most because I cannot speak for everyone), do not hate gay people, they hate the act of it. Thats like if your mom enjoyed killing people, you would tell her to stop, not because you hate her, but because the act she is doing is wrong.

 

 

 

Christians believe the act of homosexuality is wrong and therefor go against the act, not the person of the act.

 

 

 

(1) Now your saying "why not just let them do it?", well maybe we should just let them kill people?

 

 

 

Are you gay Tigra? I would say no because you have a girlfriend, but why are you vouching for people to do those things? (2) I don't want to go to a restaurant and see two guys making love moves at each other. Thats disgusting. Thats a natural reaction from my body, not just something I decided to say "Well I don't like it so i'll feel disgusted everytime I see it". No, it comes naturally, and i'm sure most men have the same reaction.

 

 

 

And its not hating anyone, if I see two gays, i'm not out to get them, and try to make their life miserable, I just hate what they are doing. Its sickening and to say something like that is Okay and Right is pathetic IMO.

 

 

 

(3) Every child has the right to a mother and father. To have two of the same gender as a parent is stupid IMO. You lose one role in the house such as father provider/worker or the other nuture/loving moms. This does not mean the kid will come out defective or bad, but to say he cannot have a mom/dad just because two guys/gals wanted to get with each other is wrong.

 

 

 

(4) You can keep claiming homsexuality is right but I will keep comming back at you and say its wrong because it is and its obvious to see why. (5) You really must have to look hard in the mirror everyday and say "homsexuality is right" tons of times to convince yourself of that one.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

(1) To make this point anywhere near valid you'd have to show how homosexuality harms like murder does. They are obviously worlds apart. Murder takes away life without consent while homosexuality is a consenting act between two people which hurts you in no way besides a childish 'yuk factor.'

 

 

 

(2) So your only beef with gays here is with those who show displays of public affection? So can you now justify how a consenting act strictly behind closed doors makes you feel? Logically, unless you are constantly disgusted for no apparant reason, because homosexual sex is going on all the time around the world, you should have no reason to have anything against all homosexual actions on this basis.

 

 

 

(3) So your only beef with gays here is with those who adopt children? So can you now justify those who don't? Not all gays adopt children, so logically you shouldn't be opposed to all homosexual actions on this basis.

 

 

 

(4) You can keep broadly claiming homosexual actions are wrong with your narrow justifications but I'll keep coming back to show you where your logic is lacking.

 

 

 

(5) Not at all, mate.

[Guest]

Tigra just concerning the point you made a page back concerning Christians being Bigots (ironically your calling yourself one, considering your still stand by the "fact" (yes inverted commas) that your a Christian yet appose so many who are).

 

 

 

As Defender pointed out its the act we're against not the person, since then if we were against the person themselves, we'd have to be against any other sinner out there, since all sins are sin.

 

 

 

Also Christians don't say we're not sinners, we just say we're forgiven, and that's what sets us apart from the normal atheist out there. Its got nothing to do with how good someone is (since as you know we're all sinners). But that doesn't mean we don't strive for righteousness.

 

 

 

edit: Can someone get a interpreter for that guss guy. Is it just me or is he/she just making strange and slightly irrelevant comments, that make no sense. :?

[Led-Zeppelin]

Yes Tigra, your the first one to notice us evil little christians scheming in the background. I don't know how you figured it out or how it got passed you..! :roll:

 

 

 

Please, I know not all christians are very intelligent or come off as blind faith, but stop using sterotypes that we are all like that, stupid and hateful.

 

 

 

Most christians (most because I cannot speak for everyone), do not hate gay people, they hate the act of it. Thats like if your mom enjoyed killing people, you would tell her to stop, not because you hate her, but because the act she is doing is wrong.

 

 

 

Christians believe the act of homosexuality is wrong and therefor go against the act, not the person of the act.

 

 

 

(1) Now your saying "why not just let them do it?", well maybe we should just let them kill people?

 

 

 

Are you gay Tigra? I would say no because you have a girlfriend, but why are you vouching for people to do those things? (2) I don't want to go to a restaurant and see two guys making love moves at each other. Thats disgusting. Thats a natural reaction from my body, not just something I decided to say "Well I don't like it so i'll feel disgusted everytime I see it". No, it comes naturally, and i'm sure most men have the same reaction.

 

 

 

And its not hating anyone, if I see two gays, i'm not out to get them, and try to make their life miserable, I just hate what they are doing. Its sickening and to say something like that is Okay and Right is pathetic IMO.

 

 

 

(3) Every child has the right to a mother and father. To have two of the same gender as a parent is stupid IMO. You lose one role in the house such as father provider/worker or the other nuture/loving moms. This does not mean the kid will come out defective or bad, but to say he cannot have a mom/dad just because two guys/gals wanted to get with each other is wrong.

 

 

 

(4) You can keep claiming homsexuality is right but I will keep comming back at you and say its wrong because it is and its obvious to see why. (5) You really must have to look hard in the mirror everyday and say "homsexuality is right" tons of times to convince yourself of that one.

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

1). That was an incredibly stupid point to make.

 

 

 

2). How old are you, 13? Grow up. Do you enjoy watching your parents make love moves at each other? I sincerely hope not. Lets outlaw it. And I doubt you'd be whinging if it was an attractive lesbian couple.

 

 

 

3). As proposed to you earlier, alot of gay couples do not adopt, what do you think of them? And I am sure pretty much all gay couples would make great parents as they have thought over it long and hard, and have actually taken the action to become parents. Where as some heterosexual couple fall into it by mistake and make horrible parents.

 

 

 

4). Obvious to see? Oh, wait I think I can see why.. You do know, most of the time, people that are incredibly homophobic are just confused about their own sexuality, it's okay.

 

 

 

5). I don't have to convince myself of anything, I just let them be and don't ridicule them. Not like I hang out at gay bars or anything?

 

 

 

Easiest...debate...ever, cheers.

[Tigra00]

Tigra just concerning the point you made a page back concerning Christians being Bigots (ironically your calling yourself one, considering your still stand by the "fact" (yes inverted commas) that your a Christian yet appose so many who are).

 

 

 

As Defender pointed out its the act we're against not the person, since then if we were against the person themselves, we'd have to be against any other sinner out there, since all sins are sin.

 

 

 

Also Christians don't say we're not sinners, we just say we're forgiven, and that's what sets us apart from the normal atheist out there. Its got nothing to do with how good someone is (since as you know we're all sinners). But that doesn't mean we don't strive for righteousness.

 

 

 

edit: Can someone get a interpreter for that guss guy. Is it just me or is he/she just making strange and slightly irrelevant comments, that make no sense. :?

 

 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa...There is a big difference between accepting Jesus and being a Christian. You can accept Jesus and not be a Christian. I feel no need to label myself into a group of people I largely despise for their hypocracy and general stupidity about pretty much EVERYTHING they talk about due to the fact that their minds are clouded by their own interperetations of the Bible. Most "Christian" religions today (rather, all...I can't think of one that's really that decent, though Jehova's Witnesses do realize that todays holidays are stolen from Pagan idealogy and thus do not celebrate them because they originally had nothing to do with Jesus or God in general, plus, they don't tell their kids they're going to Hell just to scare them into being good and obeying them, which is admirable - infact, they don't believe in Hell) are false religions which have slowly evolved from something they were in the past, which was likely "good", into what they are today, which is "bad" due to their leaders over the generations raping the idealogy with their own interperitations of the Bible and whatnot.

 

 

 

*Ahem* Once again, you fail to see the point. You keep continuing to say your crusade is against the act, not the person...Even if that were the case, which it isn't...Why would that all of a sudden make it "better" in anyones eyes? You're still suppressing people's way of life just because they disagree with yours, which is wrong. How would you like it if every Muslim country invaded and overtook your country and banned Christianity because they think it's "wrong"? You'd still want to practice it, but they'd not let you. Is that fair? oh, of course...It's only fair when you're not the one losing anything. I ask again, why can you not just let gay people live their lives? They do not hurt you in the least bit, no matter how icky you think it is to look at them.

 

 

 

My question still remains unanswered - Why are you not crusading to make lying, adultery in general, worshipping God's besides yours, worshipping of idols, using God's name in vein, not remembering the Sabbath day or disrespecting your parents - all of which today are completely legal, but against God's commandments - illegal? Why only homosexuality? I think the answer is clear, and your guys' avoidance of the question is humorous. Saying "We're not against the people, only the act!" isn't an answer, it's a terrified cop-out.

 

 

 

If striving for righteousness is what you wish for, perhaps parading around acting like you're above others, persecuting people for their lifestyles, etc etc, isn't the way to go about it. If you see two dudes kissing, perhaps the wrong course of action for God to see you in a "good" view is to sneer and say "Those people disgust me.", for I'm sure that would likely make God disgusted in you. Perhaps instead, you should approach them and tell them about Jesus. If they care not to hear it, then at least you've tried and perhaps planted a seed in their head that will make them think, even! But if they see you sneering and being disgusted by them, they will eternally be turned off by you, and subsiquentally, your fellow people's way of life. They will despise you as you despise them. Or as you say, their "act". :roll: