assassin_696 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I'll answer this from my own belief: Have you ever seen anti-religious people crusading through country's and chopping off their heads if they don't agree to it? Communist Russia. Communist China. Columbine attack. Nero (actually this wasn't chopping of heads, this was burning at the stake... but you know). And I haven't even thought about this yet. Atheism does not equate to communism. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 If memory serves me correctly atheism is a key concept of Marxism which Communism is based from. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 If memory serves me correctly atheism is a key concept of Marxism which Communism is based from. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.So what you are saying is that for Marxism you need atheism, however atheism does not necessarily equal Marxism. therefor atheism is not communism and thus you admit the examples Kant posted are incorrect in this context? Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I'll answer this from my own belief: Have you ever seen anti-religious people crusading through country's and chopping off their heads if they don't agree to it? Communist Russia. Communist China. Columbine attack. Nero (actually this wasn't chopping of heads, this was burning at the stake... but you know). And I haven't even thought about this yet. Atheism does not equate to communism. The post I quoted doesn't reference atheism. It references anti-religious people. But you're right, atheism != communism, however it is necessary for it, making the communists in quesiton atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I'll answer this from my own belief: Have you ever seen anti-religious people crusading through country's and chopping off their heads if they don't agree to it? Communist Russia. Communist China. Columbine attack. Nero (actually this wasn't chopping of heads, this was burning at the stake... but you know). And I haven't even thought about this yet. Atheism does not equate to communism. The post I quoted doesn't reference atheism. It references anti-religious people. So it's irrelevant to atheism. But anyway talking about communism and atheism rests on a big false assumption, namely that communists did their terrible deeds because they were atheists, which is untrue. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 So what you are saying is that for Marxism you need atheism To my knowledge yes. however atheism does not necessarily equal Marxism correct therefor atheism is not communism correct thus you admit the examples Kant posted are incorrect in this context? Nope. Communist China and Communist Russia were/are basically atheist countries. Even today if you practice a religion in a Church not sanctioned and controlled by the government in China they will throw you in prison. This quote is talking about Christians but the same goes for Muslims and other religions in China. This is an amnesty International report on religious persecution in China happening right now. It involves persecution against Bhuddists, Muslims, and Christians. http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/chi ... reltoc.htm Some of the ways in which Christians are persecuted in China include: * Arresting house church members, especially leaders, and either holding them without charge, or sentencing them to labour camps * Torturing Christians into falsely confessing to crimes, or torturing them to make false accusations against other Christians * Torturing Christians in an attempt to have them renounce their faith * The destruction of buildings used for worship or prayer meetings * The confiscation of Bibles and other religious materials * The beating of Christians by police and government officials http://www.human-rights-and-christian-p ... china.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Assassin, no one is saying Communists did those deeds because they were atheists. The only point being made here is some guy claimed atheists never oppress religious people. I was just pointing out that atheists have oppressed different religions in history up until present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 They do not do it because of atheism however. They do it because of communism and require a shared morality for that to work, that and Lenin and Marx were always cirtical of religion as being backwards thinking. To be honest, China is in a ridiculous state at the moment and has been for the last 50+ years. However since 78' China has given people the right to beleive in religion, whether some sections of government dont respect that is another issue. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 So it's irrelevant to atheism. But anyway talking about communism and atheism rests on a big false assumption, namely that communists did their terrible deeds because they were atheists, which is untrue. The communists (who were atheists) did their terrible deeds because the people they were oppressing weren't atheists. In other words, if the people were atheists, they wouldn't have been oppressed. So I think the assumption is true. They do not do it because of atheism however. They do it because of communism and require a shared morality for that to work, They did do it because of atheism. Theism recognizes another power besides the government as sovereign, and the atheistic government didn't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 We're all f*cking people does it matter what the hell you believe in? Where'd I put that stick, you need to be stick slapped. We all look at the same sun that Plato did, for pete's sake. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Where'd I put that stick, you need to be stick slapped. *Lower class British accent* Help! Help! I'm bein' oppressed! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 They do not do it because of atheism however. They do it because of communism and require a shared morality for that to work, They did do it because of atheism. Theism recognizes another power besides the government as sovereign, and the atheistic government didn't like that. Maybe you're right, but i still think that the persecution is because of communism rather than atheism. Even Mao is thought of as a "God" figure in China now. I dont think there was ever a complete rejection of religion, i think it was a complete rejection of people opposing communism through religion. Just like those who were persecuted for opposing communism through politics. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Atheism is simply a lack of belief in something, it tells you nothing about the morals of that person. So to say Stalin killed millions of people because of his atheism is wrong, he did it because the Church rivalled his power. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 All of you are wrong. There, compromise. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 We're all f*cking people does it matter what the hell you believe in? Yeah, it pretty much does. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Communists in ex Soviet Russia and China persecute equally both atheists and theists. Your points are completely invalid. Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Communists in ex Soviet Russia and China persecute equally both atheists and theists. Your points are completely invalid. So you are saying the Soviets and Chinese persecuted people merely for the fact they were atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTear Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Meh, I don't have the time to actually look up the communist manifesto, but I'm fairly sure that an atheistic worldview was - at the time of the conception of communism - a neccesity. Many religions, by a varying degree and depending on time, has taught it's followers submission for a class based authority. Whether this is for the pope - who has had the power the bring down empires, the english monarch - head of state and religion - or the hindu caste system, the end result was, according to Marx, an oppression by the bourgeois. I don't think, though I'd have to look it up, there are any other contra-religious ideas. Communism is atheisticic because religion is seen as a veil hiding the oppression of the proletariat. Of course, it's still possible to argue that the problem here lies in communism's fundamentally violent way of bringing about change - the primary difference between communism is socialism is that of reform contra revolution - rather than an atheistic world view. -This message was deviously brought to you by: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Communists in ex Soviet Russia and China persecute equally both atheists and theists. Your points are completely invalid. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadril Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Communists in ex Soviet Russia and China persecute equally both atheists and theists. Your points are completely invalid. So you are saying the Soviets and Chinese persecuted people merely for the fact they were atheist? No he's saying they persecuted both those who had religion and those who didn't, not that they just ignored one group (I.E atheists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 *thumbs up to Nadril* Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sour_tacos Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Glad to see we've all been taught religious tolerence here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How2PK Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 What exacly were you going to prove with this topic? It's so useless. And that's coming from somebody who believes in God. Signature by Maurice SendakWhen the stars make you drool just like a pasta fazool, that's amore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainy_Day Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Er, you push on a stereotype that all Atheists are like that, which is not true. I myself am an Atheist, and I never try to push my belief on religion onto anyone else. Though I'll have a debate with anyone who attempts to push their religion onto me. I do believe many Christians try to push their belief onto others (Well only the ones I have experienced). My own Mother and her Partner are firm Christians, and try pushing Christianity on me which is quite irritating. If Christians don't like Atheists trying to convert them, then Christians should stop trying to push their belief on others. My view is that if someone wants to follow a faith, then so be it, they shouldn't need to be persuaded. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)RIP Michaelangelopolous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underu2000 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I chuckled when I read the title. But it really isn't helping, just making more resentment and even dumber stereotypes between Christians and non-Christians. Just let it die, take the slugging to where it came from and not make new threads. Oh for the record, preaching isn't shoving religion down someone's throat, to the many people who seem to have that kind of idea. Life is a joke. Yeah, I don't get it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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