insane Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 If religious people were persecuted during the French revolution, is this because they follow the doctrine of atheism? Atheism says nothing of what others should believe or lack belief in and nothing of forcing anyone to do anything. Atheism is a position of an individual for the individual which entails lack of belief in a supernatural notion. The fact that atheists have done bad things is irrelevant to what atheism subscribes to, in other words. Same goes for religion. The fact that the crusades happened is irrelevant to christian culture as killing is not part of it This is a point I have made at least ten times on this board, yet nobody gets it. So I think we've resorted to using their own faulty logic against them. At least they understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 1 person out of 7 billion whom doesn't believe it? Amazing. 28% of Israel's Arabs deny Holocaust. There are approximately 1,413,500 Arabs citizens of Israel. Therefore, approximately 395,780 of Israel's Arabs deny the Holocaust. That's a lot of deniers considering we're only counting the small country of Israel.[1][2] It only takes one person to send an harmful and offending message. Numbers aren't the point. The point is, it shouldn't be illegal to deny the Holocaust. Whoopie doo, you don't believe in it! Good luck trying to convince people that. One person eh? Then why aren't people who compare pictures of Osama and Jesus and crap like that arrested? Freedom of Religon? More like Freedom of Belief, and the Holocaust could be believed as well. Such as Creationism; some people take it as fact, others deny it. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Edit. Ignore this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Edit. Ignore this (again, forgive my half a brain for clicking quote instead of edit). :wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Edit. Ignore this (again, forgive my half a brain for clicking quote instead of edit). :wall: You know these two posts totally destroy your credibility :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Numbers aren't the point. The point is, it shouldn't be illegal to deny the Holocaust. Whoopie doo, you don't believe in it! Good luck trying to convince people that. I never said it should be illegal to deny the holocaust. I'm against censorship and I would like to see more freedom of speech. I don't deny the holocaust. All I stated was that there are a fair few individuals who deny the holocaust and that their denial can offend/insult others (especially when it's notable figures who deny the holocaust). We're on the same side... :roll: Let's try to get back on topic, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Offence isn't justification to ban, people are offended by many things. Racism and the like are subject to censorship because it incites discrimination. Denying the holocaust is denying an event, and not hurting or inciting harm to anyone. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeitormakeit Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yay Warri0r45 agreed with me! And my goodness, people just like to pick and choose what part of my writings they wish to quote so it benefits them for instance I say your mother is a nice person. You can take that and just quote your mother and it has a whole different meaning. And you know if you say well "you should have a problem with someone's beliefs when they're harmful to you" thats just being stupid and you know I don't mean that kind of thing, if anyone says that they're just the kind of people trying to be cool by picking and proving something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Warri0r45 your mother says you being stupid And I be... ing cool :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Edit. Ignore this (again, forgive my half a brain for clicking quote instead of edit). :wall: You know these two posts totally destroy your credibility :P Total ego burnz. Forum credz on decline. :XD: @ fakeitormakeit, I mostly agreed with you on the stereotyping point. I do think people should question other's beliefs but be critical of the belief, not attacking of the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeitormakeit Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 yay warri0r45 mostly agrees! And that post by Ambassadar made me laugh :mrgreen: . Edit: and I met your able to question another's religion I mean you just shouldn't be attacking it and making lies, and such. I would rather have someone who does not believe in the same faith as me who has chosen their belief and understands it rather then someone who has had their faith chose for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDT Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Generalisation. Simple as that. I don't force my beliefs on anyone. I just get attacked a lot and take the defensive. Atheists are one of the, if not the most, untrusted minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 How about a nice hot cup of contradiction? Anyone? The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelem_ryu Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 How about a nice hot cup of contradiction? Anyone? Anytime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezz Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 I don't believe that atheists try to force religious people in any way. Because really, we don't really care too much, it's the religious people who care and try to push us, and then we naturally respond in a 'forcing' kind of way. Did that make any sense? I'm tired right now :-k [insert birds flying in a circle here]Yes, that sig was annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
____ Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Did that make any sense? I'm tired right now :-kYes it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real ET Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I don't believe that atheists try to force religious people in any way. Because really, we don't really care too much, it's the religious people who care and try to push us, and then we naturally respond in a 'forcing' kind of way. Did that make any sense? I'm tired right now :-k Made perfect sense, but I completely disagree. Not all Atheists are like that, some are very forceful and pushy. Remember the guy who sued over the "under God" part in the American Pledge of Allegiance? Religious people can be the same. Some not really forcing others, and others going door to door, shoving literature down your throat. Cowards can't block Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooferfish Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Something I really don't get, is how some Atheists claim Christians always push their believes to them when they are doing the exact, same thing to Christians? Thats wearing a big hyprocite title crown! Another thing I'll like to add to this, is when Atheists tell Christians to be open-minded. To possibily accept the idea that God isn't real, when themselves can't take the chance that God really exist? That's two hyprocite crowns! "Discuss." I assume most of you take this as a joke, somewhat. Although my ideas still apply to hyprocrital Atheists like I described. I would also like to add, I am not a Athiest, Agonistic (however you spell that, Reb help!), Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Pastafraian nor anything else. Let the mindless-jokey flame war begin! Atheists have no beliefs in god, thats what makes them atheists. I do not push anything on christians, or anyone else. They believe what they want, and I want them to let me believe (or not) in what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Made perfect sense, but I completely disagree. Not all Atheists are like that, some are very forceful and pushy. Remember the guy who sued over the "under God" part in the American Pledge of Allegiance? No. The Pledge of Allegiance is meant to encompass people of all beliefs. Some people don't believe in God; therefore, they should not have to swear "under God." A pushy atheist would be someone who attempts to change sunday school classes, much like the Christians who attempted (and continue to attempt) to change biology classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real ET Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Made perfect sense, but I completely disagree. Not all Atheists are like that, some are very forceful and pushy. Remember the guy who sued over the "under God" part in the American Pledge of Allegiance? No. The Pledge of Allegiance is meant to encompass people of all beliefs. Some people don't believe in God; therefore, they should not have to swear "under God." A pushy atheist would be someone who attempts to change sunday school classes, much like the Christians who attempted (and continue to attempt) to change biology classes. No one said the Pledge of Allegiance was mandatory, and in school I had friends who simply didn't left the "under God" out because they didn't believe in God. There's a good example. The Pledge part was just me trying to come up with an example and you have a better one. Either way, the coin still gets flipped both ways. Cowards can't block Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 No one said the Pledge of Allegiance was mandatory, and in school I had friends who simply didn't left the "under God" out because they didn't believe in God. The pledge of allegiance is mandatory for all public school students. People may also omit certain sections of the declaration of independence when they recite it, but that does not mean the sections are excused or deleted on paper. There's a good example. The Pledge part was just me trying to come up with an example and you have a better one. Either way, the coin still gets flipped both ways. The coin only gets flipped both ways if you can come up with a real example of a pushy atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambassadar Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The coin only gets flipped both ways if you can come up with a real example of a pushy atheist. My business ethics professor who didn't ever talk about ethics and spent half his time trying to disprove religion and the idea of a God. My British Literature II professor who spent an entire class session trying to disprove God and ram evolution down our throats. My anthropology professor... My girlfriend has a biomedical sciences degree and is in school for a doctorate right now has had multiple professors make fun of or go after non atheists. Bill Maher accused people that believed in a God of being insane and in need of treatment when being interviewed on CNBC I think. It's probably on youtube if anyone wants to look at it to see what he said word for word in case I misquoted. I could type more but you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The coin only gets flipped both ways if you can come up with a real example of a pushy atheist. My business ethics professor who didn't ever talk about ethics and spent half his time trying to disprove religion and the idea of a God. My British Literature II professor who spent an entire class session trying to disprove God and ram evolution down our throats. My anthropology professor... My girlfriend has a biomedical sciences degree and is in school for a doctorate right now has had multiple professors make fun of or go after non atheists. Bill Maher accused people that believed in a God of being insane and in need of treatment when being interviewed on CNBC I think. It's probably on youtube if anyone wants to look at it to see what he said word for word in case I misquoted. I could type more but you get the idea. Thank you. The reason I said that was because he had a history of running out of arguments and ending his involvement by saying the issue could still go both ways without any evidence. By the way, evolution is not an issue in the religion vs atheism debate. Evolution is a part of science, just like gravity and the orbital of planets. It does not interfere with god or lack of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 By the way, evolution is not an issue in the religion vs atheism debate. Evolution is a part of science, just like gravity and the orbital of planets. It does not interfere with god or lack of god. Evolution is clearly an issue as pretty much every religious debate revolves around evolution. Just because it's a part of science doesn't mean it has nothing to with religion. There is always the Demarcation problem. An example would be: If science conflicts with my religion, which should have the most authority? You can't give a scientific answer to that question. You can however point to the strength of some scientific evidence, but you can also point to the strength of a philosophical/religious argument or a religious experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 By the way, evolution is not an issue in the religion vs atheism debate. Evolution is a part of science, just like gravity and the orbital of planets. It does not interfere with god or lack of god. Evolution is clearly an issue as pretty much every religious debate revolves around evolution. Just because it's a part of science doesn't mean it has nothing to with religion. There is always the Demarcation problem. An example would be: If science conflicts with my religion, which should have the most authority? You can't give a scientific answer to that question. You can however point to the strength of some scientific evidence, but you can also point to the strength of a philosophical/religious argument or a religious experience. Show me how evolution conflicts with your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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