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A Rule is Worthless if it is Not Enforced


highlanders

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A rule is completely worthless if it's not enforced. By example, auto talkers, in world 2. They might aswell allow it, if they are going to do nothing about it. The rule about not blocking ads, they should just remove it, if they are not going to enforce it.

 

If in real life, cops didn't arrest people for driving above the permitted speed limit, then people would drive above limits all the time, and it would simply mean the government doesn't really want you to drive at the permitted limit, then they might aswell raise the speed limit and enforce that new speed limit.

 

 

 

Jagex say they don't want bots, heh, all talk, no action. If Jagex really didn't want bots they'd make this damned game downloadable and add security programs, and they'd leave us the hell alone with their randoms. Randoms don't stop bots, don't be silly, the bots bot through the randoms faster and better than you, the human being. Random events are just a little parody to make the simple-minded believe Jagex is actually doing everything they can against bots, at our dispense. They would allow botting, and that way they wouldn't have to waste money for all the little bots, but, they know they make more money if the players think they are nice and trying to help against the botters. I can only laugh at people saying they are looking for the "solution" to botting! Lol! As if Jagex didn't know the solution, they know it damn well, it's the solution 99.9999% of the other civilized mmorpgs have chosen, ffs.

 

 

 

Just today, Jagex created another little illusion to make the players of this game actually believe they are trying to help. "Let's remove all players the chance to get bargain runes, screw up all the item prices, that way we don't have to do anything against botting, hahahahah!". Beep, error. Wanna know why? Bots can't get bargain rules anymore, neither can you, what kind of solution is that?

 

 

 

I was looking at a forum of the mmorpg community, and I have to say Runescape is quite hated. Actually, they don't even bother hating Runescape anymore, they all just know it sucks, they don't even have to say it. Why we wonder? 11 yrs old community, botters everywhere, crappy graphics, crappy customer support, crappy gameplay, Jagex adding impossible to get items in order to make us play longer. We're all looking like a bunch of idiots, it's quite embarassing. I know I'm embarassed for myself.

 

 

 

The only thing we can hope for now is that Jagex gets tired of us, and just sells their damned company to some other people and leave us the hell alone with their incompetence.

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First of all, I'd be more than thrilled to know from you how a downloadable game can make it more secure. Of course there will be some added and hopefully better security blocks, but what good will that do? In the long run, people can and will circumvent said blocks to find a way to do exactly what they're doing now.

 

 

 

Don't get your knickers in a twist; I don't think neither you nor I have a better idea of what Jagex should do to prevent autoers.

 

 

 

The part about rules is one that's unseen to many of us. What you may believe to be an autotyper may just be someone with extremely fast typing skills. Even if it wasn't, that player would have already been punished by now.

 

 

 

I don't think you would believe me, but if we start doubting the system, then it begins to fail.

 

 

 

A players' chance to get bargain runes is in a skill called "Runecrafting". Of course, players are too damn lazy to make their own, so they buy them from shops. Well that's not at the fault of Jagex, really; who cares that they can't get cheap runes anymore? They really should just level the skill, as bad/boring/painful as it may be (made slightly less painful by the Ourania Altar). Even at that, the shop prices are selling for higher than what the economy demands of the rune, so don't worry too much about those runes coming into play. Honestly it's the quick fix of runes versus the long and cheaper path, thus you would either buy from players or craft them yourself.

 

 

 

At the end of your rant it makes me feel like you're tired of playing RuneScape. Ever consider World of Warcraft? I'm sure they could use your cynicism more than we could. Of course, then Jagex could get tired of you instead...

Linux User/Enthusiast Full-Stack Software Engineer | Stack Overflow Member | GIMP User
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...Alright, the Elf City update lured me back to RS over a year ago.

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Lol, Makoto, lemme guess, the only mmorpg you ever played was Runescape? Don't bother answering, you'll probably lie.

 

 

 

Downloadable mmorpgs with security programs still got bots, simply a billion less than mmorpgs without :roll: Actually, the only MASSIVE mmorpg that is stupid enough to be browser based, and have as security some prehistoric worthless methods, is Runescape.

 

 

 

If you believe Runescape has more security with randoms than with those security programs then you're a damn idiot rofl :roll:

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I never said they have more security with randoms. I never said anything about how much better RuneScape's security was in comparison to other MMOs.

 

 

 

I just can't see how much more secure RuneScape would be if it were downloadable instead of browser-based. A browser-based game has more flexibility in terms of operating systems (all you need is a JVM) as opposed to a game that's written for a specific OS. And even for this game, I honestly do feel they're doing a decent job with bots (not necessarily random events, but more to the tune of mass bans and various trading tweaks).

 

 

 

I'm not in the mood to get into a shouting match with you, if you can't prove to me that RuneScape would be better downloadable than it would be on the browser. I don't feel that you have enough experience in the matter to make a decent judgment call, nor do I; that's why I'm just going to leave it in the hands of someone that at least has half a clue: Jagex.

 

 

 

Sorry, but if you want to shout at me and what-not, I'm not in the mood to discuss anything further with you. I'll come back when you've cooled down, but that might not be for a long while.

Linux User/Enthusiast Full-Stack Software Engineer | Stack Overflow Member | GIMP User
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...Alright, the Elf City update lured me back to RS over a year ago.

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Part of what makes Runescape so popular is it's in-browser very easy availability, so whatever reason it would be stupid to change that with a poeper installer/bought on a cd, whatever, it just wouldn't go down well.

 

 

 

Rules DO do something if not enforced. They do. It discourages people to do things. If autotalkers weren't against the rules, i would probably have one. Regardless of weather they do anything about it right now or not, the thing stopping me is that it is technically against the rules. There a lots of un-enforced laws irl too, which simply by being their discourages the actions. If cops didn't arrest people for speeding, true a lot more people would speed, but if it was still technically against the rules, it would cause people to think twice and discourage it. Of course enforcing it is much much better, and i agree auto talkers should be cracked down on, but it's unfair to say the rule is worthless.

 

 

 

Jagex say they don't want bots, and they show it in a lot of ways, they just go about it badly. Todays update was obvious anti bot, j mods roam runescape banning bots, they make public posts informing us how we can help, my fish rank drops every day from banned bots, they really do try even if they don't do a great job of it. Once again, making it downloadable might add a little security (how would that work? it wouldn't defeat the whole gold-farmer thing for one, nor is security un-breakable), but it's not worth changing the great accessibility of the game just for a little added security, and would be a hell of a lot of work for such a little improvement. Lose lose for jagex really.

 

 

 

Agreed with the randoms, they do nothing, and inconvenience us.

 

 

 

Todays update might affect merchanters, but that's about it, and to be frank i don't care if merchanters are hurt by it, the only real place it has an effect is people buying runes from shops to use themselves, which true is kidna annoying they cost more now no matter what, but those kinds of people won't be losing that much surely. Ends justify the means.

 

 

 

I don't care what people think of runescape other than other Runescape players. Nor do most people.

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Making the game downloadable won't change a thing. Ever heard of oriental MMORPGs? Those with GameGuard? People effortlessly make sure it doesn't interrupt them and in some games this makes it easier to HACK the game instead and not just bot; Only ONCE did Runescape get hacked without the abuse of a bug.

 

 

 

Impossible items? Are you serious? Try getting a full tier set in World of Warcraft. Even the lowest of a set level (tier 1 for 60, tier 4 for 70) would do and it would STILL take you months. Trust me, I've been playing the game for two years and barely completed a whole set. In Runescape a barrows set can easily be obtained alone. You don't need 25/40 other people to try it out or to compete with them for it. Don't get me started on games like Ragnarok Online.

 

 

 

Jagex bans at least 4,000 botters and related accounts (a lot at high levels) weekly. iRO is infamous for having 90% of the community full with bots; it's partly the reason most prefer playing on private servers. Though WoW has less bots (they do exist), it's overpopulated by Chinese farmers and you'll never see a capital city without a new character of theirs with jumbled up letters for a name yelling out advertisements to buy gold from their site! I've never seen them do that in Varrock or Falador! I mean seriously... Right in the middle of a crowded area!

 

 

 

Sorry, I know you're right about the situation getting out of hand but one has to realise Jagex is an independant company and managed to raise their small game with less than 5000 players into one of the most popular online games in the net with millions of subscribers. A million members can't possibly be disillusioned by lies. I know lies. Blizzard lies about improving the game and keep dangling bait, Jagex TRY.

"300 programmers make their futile but glorious last stand against 1000000 angry players in The battle of Misthalin. They fight for honor, glory and new content sacrificing themselves so that their game may live on. This is Madness! This Is JAGEEEX!"
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First of all, I'd be more than thrilled to know from you how a downloadable game can make it more secure

 

 

 

Are you really that stupid?

 

 

 

Runescape is a server-side online game. Everything you do, every action you take in the game is relayed from the client, back home to the server and then verified. This is why there are no stat-editors. You can trick the client into "thinking" certain things (like back with AR in 2002), but you can't trick the server.

=mtw=

i smoke and i drink

 

does that make me mature

 

Not mature, it just makes you cool.

.::RollinOn XTC::.

Total::1953

Combat::131.1/123.1

 

dont take it personal... im old-school-as-f**k

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my friend used to auto back b4 autoing was popular and the main bot he used was made by someone downloading the java client and the person reverse engineering it to have auto commands etc in it, making it downloadable by default would make it WORSE if anything.

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Only ONCE did Runescape get hacked without the abuse of a bug.

 

Lies. :roll:

 

 

 

It WAS a bug. Back in 2003 AR was being retested, K released it with the auto trading support system. For those who don't know, AR was like a middleman between client and server, and the streaming data was filtered through it and edited. The reason the duping was a bug was because you couldn't NORMALLY create items using AR - because normally, you cant trick the server just by sending invalid packet data. It was done in a TRADE screen by sending invalid parameters to the server, originally trying to trade bunny ears (which are untradable). For some reason, duplicating items worked in trade screen only. My guess is probably because trading is a Client <-> Server <-> Client connection, making it a separate circumstance.

 

 

 

And Runescape did not get HACKED, you idiot. They simply used AR to change data sent from the client to the server, which was then sent to the other client. No damage was done to the servers, nothing malicious. They didn't gain access to any of Jagex's server information or user information. They didn't get bloody HACKED, bug or no bug.

=mtw=

i smoke and i drink

 

does that make me mature

 

Not mature, it just makes you cool.

.::RollinOn XTC::.

Total::1953

Combat::131.1/123.1

 

dont take it personal... im old-school-as-f**k

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There's no need to flame...

 

 

 

As I recall it was because of AR the whole dupe incident happened in the first place, not a bug in the game itself. If it were, they wouldn't have used the bot at all.

 

 

 

Hacking is a means to manipulate data through protected sources. Using a third party program to glitch the game IS hacking. You see blindly calling someone you barely know anything about an idiot is being a hypocrite.

"300 programmers make their futile but glorious last stand against 1000000 angry players in The battle of Misthalin. They fight for honor, glory and new content sacrificing themselves so that their game may live on. This is Madness! This Is JAGEEEX!"
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There's no need to flame...

 

 

 

As I recall it was because of AR the whole dupe incident happened in the first place, not a bug in the game itself.

 

 

 

It WAS a bug in the trading system. Because AR was filtering/injecting the incoming/outgoing datastreams, it was available for exploitation. No, it wouldn't have happened if AR, or some other means of packet editing (such as WPE pro), were being used. But you had damned well better believe that after the next update the trading system had more server-end verification, as opposed to a more client-to-client trust protocol.

 

 

 

Why was this a bug? Jagex didn't forsee people using packet-editors and streaming data filters to interfere with gameplay. There was no need to verify whether the item actually existed in either person's inventory because you cant click on something that's not there. Well when AR sent back invalid data for transfer to the next client, it was accepted because there was nothing there to second-guess the validity of the trade.

 

 

 

Just because AR was used to exploit a bug in the system, doesn't make it any less bug abuse. Guess what the bannable offense used against alex was? BUG ABUSE.

 

 

 

Case rested.

=mtw=

i smoke and i drink

 

does that make me mature

 

Not mature, it just makes you cool.

.::RollinOn XTC::.

Total::1953

Combat::131.1/123.1

 

dont take it personal... im old-school-as-f**k

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You see blindly calling someone you barely know anything about an idiot is being a hypocrite.

 

 

 

I can't see you or talk to you, so I judge you by the ignorant statements you fire off on here. My method of judgment is the same for everyone. I call 'em like I see 'em.

=mtw=

i smoke and i drink

 

does that make me mature

 

Not mature, it just makes you cool.

.::RollinOn XTC::.

Total::1953

Combat::131.1/123.1

 

dont take it personal... im old-school-as-f**k

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You see blindly calling someone you barely know anything about an idiot is being a hypocrite.

 

 

 

I can't see you or talk to you, so I judge you by the ignorant statements you fire off on here. My method of judgment is the same for everyone. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Indeed, contradicting yourself in the same post is humourous. :P
"300 programmers make their futile but glorious last stand against 1000000 angry players in The battle of Misthalin. They fight for honor, glory and new content sacrificing themselves so that their game may live on. This is Madness! This Is JAGEEEX!"
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You see blindly calling someone you barely know anything about an idiot is being a hypocrite.

 

 

 

I can't see you or talk to you, so I judge you by the ignorant statements you fire off on here. My method of judgment is the same for everyone. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Indeed, contradicting yourself in the same post is humourous. :P

 

 

 

How's this, I'll make your life more simple since you don't seem to comprehend:

 

 

 

If you say something in ignorance, I'm going to call you an idiot.

 

 

 

And if you're talking about the calling I can't see you/call 'em like I see 'em... I SEE the screen and the garbage you write. Do you really not understand that...? Sight is an all-inclusive sense in this case.

 

 

 

Oh, sorry - here are your laymen's terms:

 

 

 

I can't see you, but I can see what you write.

 

 

 

Got it? :roll:

=mtw=

i smoke and i drink

 

does that make me mature

 

Not mature, it just makes you cool.

.::RollinOn XTC::.

Total::1953

Combat::131.1/123.1

 

dont take it personal... im old-school-as-f**k

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Some people just find using them is easier then typing or doing things themselves, but when i go through with a great deal in W2, and know i did it on my own typing power, and no use of pathetic programs to do it for the lazy likes of them, I feel good.

 

Just report them, and hopefully it will end. Thats what ticks me off. People complain about an auto-talker or bot, then simply walk away, they figure they can't do anything, but then can... REPORT THE PIECE OF [cabbage]

 

 

 

It works.

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rs has been hacked several times it just wasnt widely known.

 

Ive seen players walk though walls at will, have a goblin as their player,

 

W a s t e d even key logged paul here on tip it then ran through rs on a moderator account yelling jagex sucks, rs sucks!.

 

And the autorune dupe wasnt a bug mtw, The game was designed to be ran AS the game, in its original client or a browser.

 

Autorune wasnt part of the original game and it utilised an exploit, not a bug, very big difference.

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1 Question:

 

 

 

 

Why we wonder? 11 yrs old community, botters everywhere, crappy graphics, crappy customer support, crappy gameplay, Jagex adding impossible to get items in order to make us play longer.

 

 

 

If you think it's crappy why play :|

 

 

 

jagex - 0 bots - 1

 

 

 

I assure you, my good man, there is no such thing as negative zero. :-$

 

 

 

Actually 0 is both negative and positive ::'

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You see blindly calling someone you barely know anything about an idiot is being a hypocrite.

 

 

 

I can't see you or talk to you, so I judge you by the ignorant statements you fire off on here. My method of judgment is the same for everyone. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Indeed, contradicting yourself in the same post is humourous. :P

 

 

 

How's this, I'll make your life more simple since you don't seem to comprehend:

 

 

 

If you say something in ignorance, I'm going to call you an idiot.

 

 

 

And if you're talking about the calling I can't see you/call 'em like I see 'em... I SEE the screen and the garbage you write. Do you really not understand that...? Sight is an all-inclusive sense in this case.

 

 

 

Oh, sorry - here are your laymen's terms:

 

 

 

I can't see you, but I can see what you write.

 

 

 

Got it? :roll:

 

 

 

haha wow you have problems.

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Quit. PM me if you play The Conduit to exchange friend codes.

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This is following the yet-to-be-proven assumption that they don't enforce the rules :roll:

 

 

 

Its a patently false assumption.

 

 

 

However because of the 'no naming, names' rule for this site, not one that can be easily proven.

 

 

 

I guess the easiest way of proving it to oneself is sending in a report via the customer service portal, with the names of suspected rule breakers and the reasons why, then see if the accounts get knocked off the high scores.

"Boy, sure would be nice to have some grenades, don't you think you think?"

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We're all looking like a bunch of idiots, it's quite embarassing. I know I'm embarassed for myself.

 

 

 

As long as u enjoy something, there is nothing to be embarrassed of. And when u stop enjoying it, shut up and leave in peace.

This is the world we live in

And these are the hands we're given

Use them and lets start trying

To make it a place worth living in

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This is following the yet-to-be-proven assumption that they don't enforce the rules :roll:

 

 

 

Its a patently false assumption.

 

 

 

However because of the 'no naming, names' rule for this site, not one that can be easily proven.

 

 

 

I guess the easiest way of proving it to oneself is sending in a report via the customer service portal, with the names of suspected rule breakers and the reasons why, then see if the accounts get knocked off the high scores.

 

 

 

Even then, you can't prove that they aren't already trying to ban people who have been already reported as suspect.

 

 

 

We, the players, only see the people who don't get banned (meaning that we don't see the long list of people who do get banned). We occasionally get a number of people who get banned after a while, but apparently some people still accuse them of negligence without any sort of proof.

 

 

 

IMO, Jagex is innocent until proven guilty however, the existence of bots does not mean nothing is being done. That is a terrible assumptions.

 

 

 

 

 

Now about the rant in general:

 

 

 

One of the key points in this rant is about how changing the stores is just an illusion and doesn't help against bots. That's totally wrong. If you look at auto-buying bots, they are incredibly simple to make and require no leveling. Just think of how hard it is to ban them at a faster rate than they are produced. Then, this update has made all autobuyers completely useless, effectively surpressing a problem that was extremely hard to enforce by simply banning. Furthermore, it implimented the "buy x", a very demanded option and changed stores to how they were originally supposed to work (this is explained in the development diary).

 

 

 

The rest of the rant is a bunch of solutions that end up creating more problems, unwillingness to accept the current solution and some general crap about how bad the community is (which is a known fact around here).

 

 

 

Very poor rant, I am utterly unimpressed

76th to reach 99 Construction on 6th of February 2007

379th to reach 99 Runecrafting on 4th of November 2007

 

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