lock please

[ego_scorpion]

That my friend isnt insults, its critique, two very different things.

 

If you call him a bluff, ofcourse hes going to respond. Why do you want to know if he is able to buy a partyhat? Thats right, because you want to compare it to your wealth to see how much richer you are.

 

 

 

You are making excuses like that too you know. You have no solid proof either. And the very nice person thing isnt relevent to the topic itself.

 

 

 

Look, it isnt wrong or less whatever to apoligize. I apoligize for this topic not going the way you want it to be. But its not only us that is making this into a rather heated debate.

 

 

 

Ok, if you are going to repsond atleast make sure you know what you are talking about.

 

 

 

#1. About proof, no, I know im richer, its not an argument, he claimed to have a rare or enough for 1 and I called it a bluff.

 

 

 

#2. He was making implication at the way I talk to people, thats where the nice responce came from.

[ego_scorpion]

ego, let me just see if I understand you correctly.

 

 

 

Are you actually trying to suggest that you have more credentials to discuss Runescape economics than I do because you have a bunch of silly hats and I do not?

 

 

 

Just wondering. :?:

 

 

 

Actualy, what I was responding to is the way you talk about merchants in your earlier posts. You can have your theories and opinions about what will happen, bottom line is you and I can think one thing and something else entirely different can happen.

 

 

 

You made the first acts of agression towards me and merchanting in general and I am simply retaliating. Perhaps we simply misunderstood each other, but I will say this.

 

 

 

Having 24 of those burgerking hats is a big accomplishment regardless of how you look at it, considering the fact that if I sell 1 of them I can buy 99 everything. Its my accomplishment and I have every right to brag about it. You dont go downtalking people with their skill capes, so why downtalk party hats? we all play for our own reasons right?

[qeltar]

 

Actualy, what I was responding to is the way you talk about merchants in your earlier posts.

 

...

 

You made the first acts of agression towards me and merchanting in general and I am simply retaliating.

 

 

Nope, wrong.

 

 

 

What I said about merchants early in the thread was the following:

 

 

I believe there's a clear distinction between merchants who get paid to provide a service, and those who merely take advantage of others, or the inability of the current system to let buyers and sellers find each other.

 

 

 

The former are reasonable, because they effectively trade their time for money. The latter are simply vultures, and if a new update puts them out of business, it's good for the vast majority of players and for the game as a whole.

 

 

I stand by that (and many people agree with it).

 

 

 

You then started responding to that comment and similar ones with insults. Not 10 minutes after I posted, we got this gem:

 

 

Im done with this thread, there is obviously 3 kinds of people posting in it.

 

 

 

1. clueless people whome merchants took advantage of that are gloating now

 

2. indifferent people and mercahnts, who seem optimistic

 

3. vulchurs, aka me, as someone put it. I think this update will hurt my $ making greatly, but what can you do.

 

 

 

Have fun discussing the subject further, im done.

 

 

Apparently you weren't done, though. Two hours or so later the bragging started:

 

 

tell that to my 10 billion net worth and swarm of people around me whenever i log in

 

 

 

 

As I said.. if you brag, expect negative reactions to it. Especially when it's something as silly as bragging over money in a game.

 

 

Having 24 of those burgerking hats is a big accomplishment regardless of how you look at it

 

 

It is? That's news to me. I don't consider it a "big accomplishment" in any way.

 

 

 

There are people who have billions worth of rares simply because they started playing the game early on, whereas others started later. Is finding out about a game three years before someone else a "big accomplishment"?

 

 

 

You've admitted that you make money by taking advantage of people. You think any honest person considers that a "big accomplishment"? How is it any more of an accomplishment than scamming or buying billions using real money? Not much in, my eyes.

 

 

 

I know people who have 99 skills that they got completely self-sufficiently. I mean.. didn't buy any raw materials. These are people who got 99 crafting getting their own seaweed and sand and making glass and then blowing it. If anything is an "accomplishment" in an online game, that's certainly it far more than having a bunch of paper hats and an overinflated ego.

 

 

Its my accomplishment and I have every right to brag about it.

 

 

Yes, you do. And other people have every right to not like it. Free hint: people don't like braggarts.

 

 

You dont go downtalking people with their skill capes, so why downtalk party hats?

 

 

Because I think the greed and obssession over them is one of the worst aspects of this game -- and you could easily be the posterboy for the entire problem.

[zono]

I'm not as worried about merchanting as I am about the Forums.

 

 

 

I think it's safe to say 90% of the Forum use is in the Market Place, and the Grand Exchange would be the equivlilant of an in-game Market Place Forum. :shame:

[Luigi222]

Yes and no. I beleive that with the sheer amount of people selling at once, there will be some awesome deals. But if your trying to sell somthing, good luck with those people selling for incredibly low prices.

 

 

 

Hopefully Jagex does somthing about this.

[ego_scorpion]

 

Actualy, what I was responding to is the way you talk about merchants in your earlier posts.

 

...

 

You made the first acts of agression towards me and merchanting in general and I am simply retaliating.

 

 

Nope, wrong.

 

 

 

What I said about merchants early in the thread was the following:

 

 

I believe there's a clear distinction between merchants who get paid to provide a service, and those who merely take advantage of others, or the inability of the current system to let buyers and sellers find each other.

 

 

 

The former are reasonable, because they effectively trade their time for money. The latter are simply vultures, and if a new update puts them out of business, it's good for the vast majority of players and for the game as a whole.

 

 

I stand by that (and many people agree with it).

 

 

 

You then started responding to that comment and similar ones with insults. Not 10 minutes after I posted, we got this gem:

 

 

Im done with this thread, there is obviously 3 kinds of people posting in it.

 

 

 

1. clueless people whome merchants took advantage of that are gloating now

 

2. indifferent people and mercahnts, who seem optimistic

 

3. vulchurs, aka me, as someone put it. I think this update will hurt my $ making greatly, but what can you do.

 

 

 

Have fun discussing the subject further, im done.

 

 

Apparently you weren't done, though. Two hours or so later the bragging started:

 

 

tell that to my 10 billion net worth and swarm of people around me whenever i log in

 

 

 

 

As I said.. if you brag, expect negative reactions to it. Especially when it's something as silly as bragging over money in a game.

 

 

Having 24 of those burgerking hats is a big accomplishment regardless of how you look at it

 

 

It is? That's news to me. I don't consider it a "big accomplishment" in any way.

 

 

 

There are people who have billions worth of rares simply because they started playing the game early on, whereas others started later. Is finding out about a game three years before someone else a "big accomplishment"?

 

 

 

You've admitted that you make money by taking advantage of people. You think any honest person considers that a "big accomplishment"? How is it any more of an accomplishment than scamming or buying billions using real money? Not much in, my eyes.

 

 

 

I know people who have 99 skills that they got completely self-sufficiently. I mean.. didn't buy any raw materials. These are people who got 99 crafting getting their own seaweed and sand and making glass and then blowing it. If anything is an "accomplishment" in an online game, that's certainly it far more than having a bunch of paper hats and an overinflated ego.

 

 

Its my accomplishment and I have every right to brag about it.

 

 

Yes, you do. And other people have every right to not like it. Free hint: people don't like braggarts.

 

 

You dont go downtalking people with their skill capes, so why downtalk party hats?

 

 

Because I think the greed and obssession over them is one of the worst aspects of this game -- and you could easily be the posterboy for the entire problem.

 

 

 

You cant selectively quote me. I posted that I was done and I didnt respond for 10 days as you said yourself, until my attenntion was brought to it.

 

 

 

Yes, 2 hours later I responded to one ignorant person to simply prove a point. I earned the right to brag about my $ and I will do it to my hearts content.

 

 

 

In my eyes you are a poster boy of jealousy, you fit it perfectly. Yes, I made some investments to have what I have today and yes I merchanted and had my share of good deals where the person walks away from the trade being happy.

 

 

 

I still say you are the poster boy of jealousy and all your remarks come from strong feeling of jealousy, deny it to your hearts content, you are lying to yourself.

 

 

 

Somebody who gets 99 crafting by getting their own soda ash? ok, ill buy that for a second. Well, to you that may be a big deal, to me thats not humanly possible having to work 10 hours a day (yes, I am posting from work, one of those easy jobs where you get to do nothing and get paid quite a bit :) )

[curmudgeony]

good luck with those people selling for incredibly low prices.

 

 

 

Hopefully Jagex does somthing about this.

 

 

 

In Gielinor, market buys You!

[Luckeedog101]

Wow, BK-hats off to you Qeltar! I loved reading the fight between you and Ego.

 

 

 

I hate to take sides and get off topic...but I will say:

 

 

 

That I completely agree with Q.

 

 

 

That I hate the fact Ego is so quick to judge and can't take critisism.

 

 

 

How Qeltar's reponses are well thought out, and Ego throws in cute one cliche one-liners such as "people hate me cause I do what they can't" (or whatever his point was).

 

 

 

And finally, I sure hope Ego grows up pretty soon, because in the real world, you can only live by one phrase: [hide]Talk SH. get hit.[/hide]

 

 

 

Hopefully my little insight will save you a few black eyes : .

[DegenerateX]

In my eyes, play the game how you want to play it.

 

There is not one universal figure or method that everyone will respect.

 

 

 

Certain people respect merchants for their wealth and efficient methods of earning money, while others may criticize it.

 

 

 

You can jugde all merchants and say we are the scum of the earth. In effect you dislike us because we have found a more efficient method of making money that you cannot do due to your inferiority at social engineering or your ethics and moral.

 

 

 

You may dislike our methods, but in a game where everything revolves around money, you can't deny the achievement of having a lot of money. We raise our levels to make our money. We want 99 woodcutting so we can cut logs faster and sell them for more. We raise mining to mine faster and make more money. We get our smithing higher so we can smith runite and make more money.

 

 

 

You are going for the same goal as us except we're taking 2 completely different aproaches. You do a skill to make your money. Maybe you prefer doing that skill to make money instead of merching but that's just preference and is irrevelant to this argument. You chose one way of making money while we choose another.

[hohto]

There are people who have billions worth of rares simply because they started playing the game early on, whereas others started later. Is finding out about a game three years before someone else a "big accomplishment"?

 

 

 

You've admitted that you make money by taking advantage of people. You think any honest person considers that a "big accomplishment"? How is it any more of an accomplishment than scamming or buying billions using real money? Not much in, my eyes.

 

 

 

I know people who have 99 skills that they got completely self-sufficiently. I mean.. didn't buy any raw materials. These are people who got 99 crafting getting their own seaweed and sand and making glass and then blowing it. If anything is an "accomplishment" in an online game, that's certainly it far more than having a bunch of paper hats and an overinflated ego.

 

 

 

Getting one party hat is now harder than getting some skills to 99. In my eyes even the cheapest party hat is a bigger accomplishment than 99cooking+fletching+melee skills are together. It requires either balls of steel to get that money through staking, hundreds of hours of solid work on boring skills or the ability to sell and buy at right times&places.

 

 

 

I personally hate it when people tend to give higher value on stuff that has gotten without buying raw materials. It's true that it's harder to mine your own ores than buy bars, but the result is same: you do the skill in a way you feel that fits for you. Everyone has the possibility to do it in an easier way and I don't see a reason why to value someone's 99 cooking more just because he has been catching shrimps for 2 years nonstop or someone's 99 smithing after he has been mining tin&copper for 5 years with his precious bronze pickaxe. It's about choices.

 

 

 

You also mentioned the fact that some people actually never paid a thing or risked anything to get their rares. That's true, but you forget the fact that no one in 2001 believed party hats would ever be worth over 100k. In 2003 no one belived they would ever be over 100 million. It's about choices and if someone has been wise enough to keep his rares, it's not away from us.

 

 

 

I personally hate it how honest merchants are getting bashed by people who aren't into that stuff. It's their own choice to play the game like that and without merchanters we'd have painful times buying our raw materials for the skills we want or then getting rid of the goods we've gotten from the skilling project. I personally rather pay 50gp more per gold ore if I can buy 50k of them at once instead of wasting days more in buying them in the amounts of 100s or even worse, mining by myself.

[qeltar]

 

You can jugde all merchants and say we are the scum of the earth. In effect you dislike us because we have found a more efficient method of making money that you cannot do due to your inferiority at social engineering or your ethics and moral.

 

 

This is untrue. It's just a self-delusion that some merchants tell themselves so they can stick their heads in the sand and ignore some of the legitimate reasons why merchants are disliked.

 

 

 

Sure, some of it is due to jealousy, but there are many other reasons why merchanting is looked down upon:

 

 

 

1. The attitude of many merchants (a notable example being in this thread) that wealth is all that matters and that it is somehow worthy of respect in and of itself.

 

 

 

2. A lack of moral integrity on the part of many merchants, who openly admit that they take advantage of others and treat them unfairly.

 

 

 

3. A perception that merchants raise or lower prices for others (which is partially true and partially untrue).

 

 

 

4. The fact that merchanting allows people to make money without having "paid their dues" in terms of training, as is necessary in skilling, PKing and other methods. It is felt by many that this cheapens the game.

 

 

You may dislike our methods, but in a game where everything revolves around money, you can't deny the achievement of having a lot of money.

 

 

I can't? Watch me.

 

 

 

I hereby deny the achievement of having a lot of money.

 

 

 

There, that was easy.

 

 

 

You are projecting what you consider important onto others. Just because you think having pixel money is essential, it doesn't mean others do.

 

 

 

I know many, many people who have played the game for ages and do not have a lot of money, and it's not because they couldn't earn it, it's because they recognize that wealth is not the point of the game.

 

 

 

I know people who could have had billions if they wanted to, because they've been playing for a long time. It just wasn't important to them.

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, just in the last few weeks I left about 100 million on the table by not selling my Sara GS when its price ran up to crazy levels. Why? Because I like it, and I don't really need more money. It's not the point of the game for me. I'm not trying to impress anyone.

 

 

We raise our levels to make our money. We want 99 woodcutting so we can cut logs faster and sell them for more. We raise mining to mine faster and make more money. We get our smithing higher so we can smith runite and make more money.

 

 

"We, we, we". Again, you don't speak for everyone. YOU may raise levels to get money but that's not why many others do it.

 

 

 

Why do people get 99 in Herblore or Agility or Crafting? It's not for the money, I assure you.

 

 

 

Why do people get 4,000 Chompy kills or max out on CW tickets? It's not for money.

 

 

 

Etc.

 

 

You are going for the same goal as us except we're taking 2 completely different aproaches.

 

 

 

Wrong. Not the same goals at all.

 

 

 

For most people, money is a means to an end. They want money to buy something they like and to use it.

 

 

 

Many merchants have things backwards -- they want money for its own sake, so they can show off, because they think this makes them "important". Sorry to tell you, but it really doesn't, except in the eyes of other insecure, usually rather young people who haven't figured out much in life yet.

[hohto]

1. The attitude of many merchants (a notable example being in this thread) that wealth is all that matters and that it is somehow worthy of respect in and of itself.

 

 

 

This same applies to any other subgatery: pkers, skillers, multitaskers, leg players, autoers, americans, finns, etc. There's always some idiots among the people. However merchanters are seen more often than pkers/skillers as they are everywhere and actually interact with people.

 

 

 

2. A lack of moral integrity on the part of many merchants, who openly admit that they take advantage of others and treat them unfairly.

 

 

 

Doesn't the lack of moral apply for NH pkers and unfair skillers (spot stealing, etc) people?

 

 

 

3. A perception that merchants raise or lower prices for others (which is partially true and partially untrue).

 

 

 

If we take a closer look at it, it's the buyers who rise it, not the merchants themselves. The price is what 2 sides agree to and if we're not happy with the prices, we either must go to other people who sell it cheaper or pay more.

 

 

 

Also don't forget how much pkers and skillers actually need merchants: pkers need potions, food, runes, arrows and armours. Skillers need raw materials and get rid of their ending productions. Without the merchant class, buying and selling items in bulk would be a lot harder.

 

 

 

If you were refering to price manipulators here, I would see it the same way as judging skillers because of autoers. They are just dishonest people who should not affect to legit players, no matter in which class they were.

 

 

 

4. The fact that merchanting allows people to make money without having "paid their dues" in terms of training, as is necessary in skilling, PKing and other methods. It is felt by many that this cheapens the game.

 

 

 

How isn't doing the trades for people not doing their dues? With this logic (if we push it to limits) only people right herblore should use potions and so on. With those thoughts you forget that some people actually give value to time: we want to get things fast and actually pay extra for bulk amount of raw materials if it helps us to save time. If that means trading with a merchant, it's fine to me and they should also get paid for the time they've wasted for gathering bulk amounts of materials.

 

 

 

I also don't see how it cheapens the game. In my eyes merchanting gives a totally new way to play it and thus richens it. It actually helps every other class and is linked to them.

 

 

 

know many, many people who have played the game for ages and do not have a lot of money, and it's not because they couldn't earn it, it's because they recognize that wealth is not the point of the game.

 

 

 

And I know people who have played for years and not gone into skilling and/or pking. Different people give different values to things and do what they feel like is what they like.

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, just in the last few weeks I left about 100 million on the table by not selling my Sara GS when its price ran up to crazy levels. Why? Because I like it, and I don't really need more money. It's not the point of the game for me. I'm not trying to impress anyone.

 

 

 

That's up to you and doesn't make you any better person.

 

 

 

Many merchants have things backwards -- they want money for its own sake, so they can show off, because they think this makes them "important". Sorry to tell you, but it really doesn't, except in the eyes of other insecure, usually rather young people who haven't figured out much in life yet.

 

 

 

In my eyes multi-billion bank and 99 skills share one common thing: they usually can't be rationally explained. It's either just things in your bank that lie there until you quit/sell it/use it or a thing at the stat list. If 99 farming makes you feel good, go for it. If it's a blue party had, get it. No matter what the majority say.

[qeltar]

 

There's always some idiots among the people.

 

 

Well, groups in which there are a high proportion of idiots tend to be the most disliked.

 

 

 

PKers, on the whole, have the highest proportion of idiots and are, again generally, more despised by the overall population than any other group. The "merchant class" has a good proportion of people who are greedy, rude and who like to show off, so people look down on them as well.

 

 

Doesn't the lack of moral apply for NH pkers and unfair skillers (spot stealing, etc) people?

 

 

Again, to the extent that those people do those things, they are also disliked.

 

 

If we take a closer look at it, it's the buyers who rise it, not the merchants themselves. The price is what 2 sides agree to and if we're not happy with the prices, we either must go to other people who sell it cheaper or pay more.

 

 

The claim that merchants are solely responsible for prices going up or down is false, but so is the claim that they have nothing to do with it. The truth is in the middle.

 

 

 

A merchant is a middleman. By definition, any profit a merchant makes is money that is taken away from the person he buys from, and the person he eventually sells to. Since merchants spend a lot more time buying and selling, they take advantage of good deals that show up in order to make their profit, and that deprives the end buyer and seller of that money.

 

 

 

It's really that simple -- the money doesn't come out of nowhere.

 

 

Also don't forget how much pkers and skillers actually need merchants: pkers need potions, food, runes, arrows and armours. Skillers need raw materials and get rid of their ending productions. Without the merchant class, buying and selling items in bulk would be a lot harder.

 

 

As I said early in this thread, those merchants are IMO legitimate, because they are trading their time for money and providing a useful service. It is the ones who just buy things and then flip them for a profit that are not really providing any value to the economy.

 

 

How isn't doing the trades for people not doing their dues?

 

 

The point is that you can walk off Tutorial Island and within a day start making millions through merchanting. You can't do that with any other aspect of the game, and that's what a lot of people resent.

 

 

That's up to you and doesn't make you any better person.

 

 

I never said it made me a better person. I gave it as an example of how the game doesn't revolve around money just because merchants want to think it does.

[ego_scorpion]

Dear Qeltar:

 

 

 

Afrer reading your last post ive come to realise that I have been trying to argue with somebody whose intelligence quotent is that of average room temperature. I am sorry for trying to reason with you, allow me to post in a manner best beffiting someone of your caliber

 

 

 

 

You can jugde all merchants and say we are the scum of the earth. In effect you dislike us because we have found a more efficient method of making money that you cannot do due to your inferiority at social engineering or your ethics and moral.

 

 

This is untrue. It's just a self-delusion that some merchants tell themselves so they can stick their heads in the sand and ignore some of the legitimate reasons why merchants are disliked.

 

 

 

Sure, some of it is due to jealousy, but there are many other reasons why merchanting is looked down upon:

 

 

For me, this thread wasnt to try to find out why people dislike merchants and then try to change my evil ways to please the likes of you. However, youve made it very clear the reasons for which you in particular dislike merchants and after reading through your threads carefully I have come up with the following.

 

 

 

#1 Inferiority complex: You feel unhappy about yourself due to the fact that merchants out there outplay you by a large margin. I understnad how hard it has been on you, training combat for days to no end to try to accomplish something.

 

 

 

#2 Sour Jealousy: I understand your pain when you see somebody who has barely killed anything combat wise (aka me) and parading around in best gear imaginable. I know how bad you want that dragon chain, but that stupid queen just refuses to drop it. See, I dont want to spend my life fighting kalphite queen and hating everyone else for my own failure so I just bought my dragon chain.

 

 

 

#3 Financial: You no longer have to pretend to hate money and at the same time make states such as "You have no idea what I have or dont have". Based on everything you said, your every response I can safely assume that in all your times playing you try very hard to safe up every penny in order to at some point afford something good. Unfortunately, inflation doesnt wait for you. However, you keep on saving up buddy.

 

 

 

#4 Respect: Lastly, it must kill you that a low life merchant, who has not done a days worth of hard work being so rich. You must try to understand, in a game revoling around $ the mindless masses respect $ and not big speeches. Despite your personal preference, $ is the most important thing in this game. Sure, its about fun as well, but fun is a matter of perspective. Although you may find it fun to mindlessly range or melee different monsters hoping for a drop, for me, fun is making 100 million in 1 day and then parading it around and buying nice things for myself and my friends.

 

 

 

 

1. The attitude of many merchants (a notable example being in this thread) that wealth is all that matters and that it is somehow worthy of respect in and of itself.

 

 

This is a good case of pot calling kettle black. You went into this thread with nothing but disrespect and as such you got no respect in return. Have you tried displaying some civility you mave have been treated like a person as opposed to jealous slime on the bottom of my boot.

 

 

 

 

2. A lack of moral integrity on the part of many merchants, who openly admit that they take advantage of others and treat them unfairly.

 

 

Despite what you may think, merchanting is a very simple concept. Both people go into the trade thinking that they are getting a good deal. Furthermore, you dont know me or anything about me, but all you would need is to ask 1 of my friends about my moral integrity and character to see just what kind of person I am. Dont make assumptions, you judged me for making assumptions about you being dirt poor (for which you fit the stereotype perfectly)

 

 

 

 

3. A perception that merchants raise or lower prices for others (which is partially true and partially untrue).

 

 

What does this have to do with anything? A market that is controlled by teenage gatherers (miners, fishers, etc) can be easily altered by enough people with understanding of the games economy.

 

 

 

 

4. The fact that merchanting allows people to make money without having "paid their dues" in terms of training, as is necessary in skilling, PKing and other methods. It is felt by many that this cheapens the game.

 

 

Now this statement here just proved to me just how low your IQ really is. So you think a 14 year old kid who spent his whole summer doing Pest Control to get to 99 range has paid his dues? When that same kid proceed to go stake someone and kill them with ease to make millions in a day?

 

 

 

In 1 point you talk about taking advantage of people and in another you talk about pking, like pking and staking doesnt take advantage of people? Atleast with merchanting both parties walk away with something? You sir are an idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may dislike our methods, but in a game where everything revolves around money, you can't deny the achievement of having a lot of money.

 

 

I can't? Watch me.

 

 

 

I hereby deny the achievement of having a lot of money.

 

 

 

There, that was easy.

 

 

Its a good thing you matter. Ill offer you a simple test. Pick a world and come stand next to me in that world wearing whatever you want. I will come there with nothing on but my blue party hat. Who do you think will gather a crowd, your skill cape or my hat? lol. Ofocurse oyu might say things like I dont care blah blah blah, point here being nobody cares what you consider an achievement or not, its what everyone else considers an achievement.

 

 

 

You are projecting what you consider important onto others. Just because you think having pixel money is essential, it doesn't mean others do.

 

 

 

 

 

I know many, many people who have played the game for ages and do not have a lot of money, and it's not because they couldn't earn it, it's because they recognize that wealth is not the point of the game.

 

 

 

I know people who could have had billions if they wanted to, because they've been playing for a long time. It just wasn't important to them.

 

 

 

 

Every time someone in this game started talking about wealth this and that and I would show party hats their immediate responce was .... "oh yea? I know somebody who has 70 blues!" or something else stupid along those lines. Im sure you know all those people and this and that, once again, you fit the stereotype of a jealous drooling teenager barking and the master because he dindt get fed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, just in the last few weeks I left about 100 million on the table by not selling my Sara GS when its price ran up to crazy levels. Why? Because I like it, and I don't really need more money. It's not the point of the game for me. I'm not trying to impress anyone.

 

 

 

 

Im sure, somehow, after all youve said I HIGLY doubt it, but you are welcome to prove it, like I said, I call your bluff.

 

 

 

 

 

We raise our levels to make our money. We want 99 woodcutting so we can cut logs faster and sell them for more. We raise mining to mine faster and make more money. We get our smithing higher so we can smith runite and make more money.

 

 

"We, we, we". Again, you don't speak for everyone. YOU may raise levels to get money but that's not why many others do it.

 

 

 

Why do people get 99 in Herblore or Agility or Crafting? It's not for the money, I assure you.

 

 

 

Why do people get 4,000 Chompy kills or max out on CW tickets? It's not for money.

 

 

 

Etc.

 

 

Ok, you think somebody who has a lot of free time and kills chompys to fill it up deserves your respect... go ahead and respect them... I think somebody who understands this game and can turn nothing into something deserves mine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are going for the same goal as us except we're taking 2 completely different aproaches.

 

 

 

Wrong. Not the same goals at all.

 

 

 

For most people, money is a means to an end. They want money to buy something they like and to use it.

 

 

So you disagree that $ is important? Ok, if its not, would oyu kindley give me all your $ and give out all your stuff to those beggars... im sure people respect you for your charming personality...

 

 

 

 

Many merchants have things backwards -- they want money for its own sake, so they can show off, because they think this makes them "important". Sorry to tell you, but it really doesn't, except in the eyes of other insecure, usually rather young people who haven't figured out much in life yet.

 

Actualy, I have $ for all purposes.

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=712645

 

 

 

Screen shot of my bank, as you can see, I dont have that much cash, just my rares and stuff for skills. So what exactly is your problem? I understand you are jealous, but let it go and grow up.

 

 

 

In conclusion, I want to say again, if you claim $ is not important #1 prove it, and #2, can I have it since it doesnt matter to you?

[Ceblue]

Oh dear.

 

 

 

Ego, I'd like to affirm you in your accomplishment. That is a large sum of wealth, and it must have taken some time and dedication to achieve it. That said, the reason you see a lot of merchant bashers is because in many cases such wealth is achieved at the expense of other players and the artificial manipulation of the market. Inevitably, this will cause resentment from the rest of the community.

 

 

 

There has been some spirited discussion revolving around this, but that's what it basically boils down too, in my opinion.

 

 

 

However, when you started accusing Qeltar of jealousy, I actually burst out laughing. I suppose if you know nothing else about him outside of his posts in this thread, that might be a remote possibility, but based on what I have heard from him in other contexts, I am quite certain that whatever his feelings are toward you, it is not jealousy - far from it. In fact, the more you gleefully accuse him of this, and the more you trumpet your own achievements, the more it affirms Qeltar's argument that you may be a little too obsessed about your rares and merchanting skills - obsessed to the point that it is clouding your ability to reason and see the other side. You challenge Qeltar to match your net worth and to see if he would attract more attention when standing alongside you in-game. It could very well be that Qeltar, like myself, do not particularly care for that kind of attention, and actually may go out of our way to avoid it. For the sake of preserving your legitimacy, I wouldn't attack Qeltar on the basis that he is jealous.

 

 

 

Edit: Take some time to browse Truthscape and gain a different perspective on your opponent before jumping to conclusions. It's an interesting read, and you just might learn something!

[hohto]

As I said early in this thread, those merchants are IMO legitimate, because they are trading their time for money and providing a useful service. It is the ones who just buy things and then flip them for a profit that are not really providing any value to the economy.

 

 

 

Don't the last part also do the same for us: provide us services in order to save our time? If you meant the little kids who for example buy whips at 50k lower than the normal price is and then sell at the same spot for normal price, I personally would call those time wasters instead of merchants.

 

 

 

The point is that you can walk off Tutorial Island and within a day start making millions through merchanting. You can't do that with any other aspect of the game, and that's what a lot of people resent.

 

 

 

You can do the same with every other thing too. For skilling you obviously need some skills to get into moneymaking, but same way in merchanting you need capital to do it. Same way as you can create more money with skills when your level goes higher, the same way you can merchant better and get more out of it when you've gained some capital first.

[ego_scorpion]

Oh dear.

 

 

 

Ego, I'd like to affirm you in your accomplishment. That is a large sum of wealth, and it must have taken some time and dedication to achieve it. That said, the reason you see a lot of merchant bashers is because in many cases such wealth is achieved at the expense of other players and the artificial manipulation of the market. Inevitably, this will cause resentment from the rest of the community.

 

 

 

There has been some spirited discussion revolving around this, but that's what it basically boils down too, in my opinion.

 

 

 

However, when you started accusing Qeltar of jealousy, I actually burst out laughing. I suppose if you know nothing else about him outside of his posts in this thread, that might be a remote possibility, but based on what I have heard from him in other contexts, I am quite certain that whatever his feelings are toward you, it is not jealousy - far from it. In fact, the more you gleefully accuse him of this, and the more you trumpet your own achievements, the more it affirms Qeltar's argument that you may be a little too obsessed about your rares and merchanting skills - obsessed to the point that it is clouding your ability to reason and see the other side. You challenge Qeltar to match your net worth and to see if he would attract more attention when standing alongside you in-game. It could very well be that Qeltar, like myself, do not particularly care for that kind of attention, and actually may go out of our way to avoid it. For the sake of preserving your legitimacy, I wouldn't attack Qeltar on the basis that he is jealous.

 

 

 

Edit: Take some time to browse Truthscape and gain a different perspective on your openest before jumping to conclusions. It's an interesting read, and you just might learn something!

 

 

 

Dear Ceblue, thank you for your well thoughtout legitimate response. I assure you that I am 100% legitimate in a sense that I have never stolen, hacked, scammed, or anything else of that nature. Over time people have trusted me with things ranging from santa to all their party hats to hold, I had never stolen, and never will. I am strongly against thiefs, cheaters, scammers in general and if I see one in action I always make it a point to report them.

 

 

 

Qeltar is driven by hatred towards merchants it seems, or atleast strong dislike. But, where does one get such feelings from? Based off of his stereotype respones and the initial agression towards merchants in his early posts my natural guess is jealousy. Not of me in particular, but merchants in general and their ability to do what they want, when they want, how they want it.

 

 

 

When you mention obsessing over wealth, I look at it different. I am rubbing it in his face just to make him more angry and more jealous, for it amuses me greatly. Fight fire with fire and fight ignorance with ignorance eh? If he is going to blindly hate merchants, might as well give him more to hate (or be jealous of, lol).

 

 

 

Another way I see it is a way for him to look important and justify his existance. I mean considering the fact that nobody ever heard of qeltar, if he starts a fight with somebody who quite a few people know he might somehow get noticed, maybe get some support as well eh?

 

 

 

Point is, with these teengars on the internet and runescape in particular its really hard to know their true motives for stupidity.

[qeltar]

 

Afrer reading your last post ive come to realise that I have been trying to argue with somebody whose intelligence quotent is that of average room temperature. I am sorry for trying to reason with you, allow me to post in a manner best beffiting someone of your caliber

 

 

Oh noes! I'm wounded! Quick, let me grab a tuna potato. :D

 

 

#1 Inferiority complex: You feel unhappy about yourself due to the fact that merchants out there outplay you by a large margin. I understnad how hard it has been on you, training combat for days to no end to try to accomplish something.

 

 

Fascinating!

 

 

 

Well, see, the problem is that you are still stuck in your pattern of projecting what YOU consider important, or "superior" or "outplaying" onto others.

 

 

 

Here is a comparison of our stats in the game. Do you think you've "outplayed me by a large margin"? You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

 

 

 

At any rate, I play for fun, not to "accomplish things" or impress others. It's a game, remember?

 

 

 

As for "inferiority complexes", a rather obvious sign of someone suffering from one is that they go around bragging about what they have, wanting desperately for others to acknowledge their "superiority" and "accomplishments". Now, which of us does this better describe?

 

 

#2 Sour Jealousy: I understand your pain when you see somebody who has barely killed anything combat wise (aka me) and parading around in best gear imaginable.

 

 

But I really couldn't care less what gear you wear. Why would I?

 

 

Based on everything you said, your every response I can safely assume that in all your times playing you try very hard to safe up every penny in order to at some point afford something good.

 

 

You know what they say about people who assume, dude.

 

 

 

(Did it ever occur to you to check out the monster guides on my site and wonder how it is that someone so poor was able to write them? I mean, since you're so much more intelligent than me, and all.)

 

 

You must try to understand, in a game revoling around $ the mindless masses respect $ and not big speeches.

 

 

Ah... see, here we come to the crux of the issue. It's not about "accomplishment" -- it's about you wanting to get "respect from the mindless masses".

 

 

 

But I have to ask... why? Why do you care about this? I certainly don't. Why would I give a fig about "mindless masses" respecting me for having pixel money? Do "mindless" people matter to you? Not to me. Does it really mean anything? Not that I can see.

 

 

 

You know, I have never had any problem getting or giving respect to people who deserve it. I can detect a person worthy of respect by how they BEHAVE, not what they wear. Just talking to someone for a few minutes is usually enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. And to me, a level 31 person mining coal who behaves reasonably and can conduct an intelligent discussion is far more worthy of respect than a pompous braggart who prounces around in a Burger King hat watching the "mindless masses" fall at his feet.

 

 

 

I can only hope that you don't have things this mixed up in your real life -- though it seems likely that you do.

 

 

Furthermore, you dont know me or anything about me, but all you would need is to ask 1 of my friends about my moral integrity and character to see just what kind of person I am.

 

 

All I need to know about your moral integrity and character has been revealed by your own actions: bragging, obsessing over money, admitting that you take advantage of people, and admitting that you engage in market manipulation.

 

 

You sir are an idiot.

 

 

Flattery will get you nowhere. ;)

 

 

Pick a world and come stand next to me in that world wearing whatever you want. I will come there with nothing on but my blue party hat. Who do you think will gather a crowd, your skill cape or my hat? lol.

 

 

And again, you reveal your real motivation.

 

 

 

But what you don't seem to ever be able to understand is that people who are secure in themselves and have their priorities straight don't need to gather a crowd of anonymous children around them to tell them how great they are. You should ask yourself why you feel that you need to do this.

 

 

 

~q

[ego_scorpion]

Edit: Take some time to browse Truthscape and gain a different perspective on your opponent before jumping to conclusions. It's an interesting read, and you just might learn something!

 

 

 

If he was worth getting to know he wouldnt have started his initial posts with merchant hatred and foaming at the mouth.

 

 

 

I dont need to get to know him to know what kind of person he is based off of what he said. There is debating and hten there is resorting to any form of personal attack or arugment to prove a point. I am simply playing his game and retaliating, like I said, fihgt ignorance with more ignorance, cept I have mr. 10 bil on my side :)

[qeltar]

 

You can do the same with every other thing too. For skilling you obviously need some skills to get into moneymaking, but same way in merchanting you need capital to do it. Same way as you can create more money with skills when your level goes higher, the same way you can merchant better and get more out of it when you've gained some capital first.

 

 

 

I could make a character right now from scratch and have probably 5 million in the bank by the end of the day through merchanting. That's pretty much impossible to do with skilling.

[Dragonlordjl]

Edit: Take some time to browse Truthscape and gain a different perspective on your opponent before jumping to conclusions. It's an interesting read, and you just might learn something!

 

 

 

If he was worth getting to know he wouldnt have started his initial posts with merchant hatred and foaming at the mouth.

 

 

 

I dont need to get to know him to know what kind of person he is based off of what he said. There is debating and hten there is resorting to any form of personal attack or arugment to prove a point. I am simply playing his game and retaliating, like I said, fihgt ignorance with more ignorance, cept I have mr. 10 bil on my side :)

 

 

 

More pompous parading... Your argumentum ad nauseum is getting old. I suggest you use something else to back up your arguments other than "z0mg j00 r jeluz of mai geepees and becuz of mai geepees i r moar smartar dan you and know wot i am talking aboot bettar dan u!!!" It's just not working for you.

[epeeflecher]

"teengars on the internet and runescape"

 

 

 

You must be...a non-teen. Your Old :mrgreen:

[ego_scorpion]

dear qeltar, please, allow me to further expalin something.

 

 

 

 

Here is a comparison of our stats in the game. Do you think you've "outplayed me by a large margin"? You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

 

 

 

 

I have been gone 3 years, since before slayer came out, you know, the whole 3 years youve been grinding skills, i have been doing something else :)

 

 

 

 

(Did it ever occur to you to check out the monster guides on my site and wonder how it is that someone so poor was able to write them? I mean, since you're so much more intelligent than me, and all.)

 

 

 

 

good thing internet doesnt have 100's of sites like that to copy from :( fail again

 

 

 

 

Ah... see, here we come to the crux of the issue. It's not about "accomplishment" -- it's about you wanting to get "respect from the mindless masses".

 

 

Actauly, I dont respond in game to anyone unless its a frined or someone buying or selling, I couldnt care less, im just pointing out the obvious.

 

 

 

You keep using pixel $, we are playing a pixel game, yet you keep saying pixel this pixel that as if you are somehow above those pixels. Here, you are writing guides on how to kill pixel monsters and at the same time mocking the pixel items they drop... whats the word for that... oxymoron i think.

 

 

 

 

I can only hope that you don't have things this mixed up in your real life -- though it seems likely that you do.

 

 

Yet again, you bring up real life. I am yet to mention anything about real life, and you keep bringing it up as if it somehow makes your point more legitimate.

 

 

 

You mock my advertising of my riches, then you make a point to advertise that your stats are better than mine. You advertise your site at the same time. So let me get this straight, its ok to advertise copy-paste sites and stats, just not $?

 

 

 

 

All I need to know about your moral integrity and character has been revealed by your own actions: bragging, obsessing over money, admitting that you take advantage of people, and admitting that you engage in market manipulation.

 

 

You call it bragging, I call it showing off my vast wealth

 

Merchanting is a concept of buying for cheap and selling for less, so let me get this straight, you hate all pkers and stakers because they take advantage of people? I mean show some consistency if you are going to make a false attempt at showing integrity.

 

 

 

For the love of reading comprehension, what is price manipulating? Me buying 20 blue party hats because I can afford them and then selling them, without making a single false claim or false advertisement is not price manipulation, but hey, if you wonna call it that you just further convinced me of exactly how low your IQ is.

 

 

 

 

And again, you reveal your real motivation.

 

 

 

But what you don't seem to ever be able to understand is that people who are secure in themselves and have their priorities straight don't need to gather a crowd of anonymous children around them to tell them how great they are.

 

 

 

 

Actualy, yet again your low IQ didnt allow you to see the point. The point here is party hat > skill cape. Anyone given enough time can achieve a skil cape, but only select few can achieve a party hat was my point, sorry if it was too complicated for someone of your vast intelligence.

[ego_scorpion]

Edit: Take some time to browse Truthscape and gain a different perspective on your opponent before jumping to conclusions. It's an interesting read, and you just might learn something!

 

 

 

If he was worth getting to know he wouldnt have started his initial posts with merchant hatred and foaming at the mouth.

 

 

 

I dont need to get to know him to know what kind of person he is based off of what he said. There is debating and hten there is resorting to any form of personal attack or arugment to prove a point. I am simply playing his game and retaliating, like I said, fihgt ignorance with more ignorance, cept I have mr. 10 bil on my side :)

 

 

 

More pompous parading... Your argumentum ad nauseum is getting old. I suggest you use something else to back up your arguments other than "z0mg j00 r jeluz of mai geepees and becuz of mai geepees i r moar smartar dan you and know wot i am talking aboot bettar dan u!!!" It's just not working for you.

 

 

 

try reading my other 3 or 4 posts? or which part of fight ignorance with ignorance didnt you get... oh wait... thats you fihgting my ignorance with your ignorrance so your legitimate attempt at making a point is just a way of you showing that you are ignorant... so wait, you could have just told me that you are ignorant... where am i?

[Dragonlordjl]

If you had actually been to his site, you'd realize how fallacious your statements are. He did not copy anything; he performed many experiments himself and recorded the data from them. His guides are far more thorough than any guides on a help-site.

 

 

 

Showing off your vast wealth = bragging. You wear the party hats in order to get the "mindless masses" to fawn over you. It's bragging, you're just sugarcoating it.

 

 

 

And yes, it's all just pixels... But the difference between writing guides about how to kill monsters for their pixel drops is that the pixel drops are actually USEFUL. They have a USE in the game, other than showing off. Party hats are USELESS except for bragging and asking for someone to attempt to brute-force your password.