Salutary Neglect and offense forgiveness

[benar]

Please Note: You may be in for a bit of a read. After all, this is a thread intended to start "a bit" of conversation. Of course by that, I mean a lot of conversation.

 

 

 

Jagex hits you when you least expect it. Innocent bystanders have reportedly been beaten and left for dead in the streets in cases of drive-by customer support. Players of RuneScape are racking up the black marks and bruises (the two could be considered one in the same) left and right. These alleged "beatings" are often for reasons unseen by the victim.

 

 

 

If you have a black mark, then you probably deserve it. So contrary to the statement from above, you bystanders aren't so innocent. Jagex customer support makes mistakes and has miscommunications, but they don't implement people in crimes that they had nothing to do with. Whether or not people deserve their black marks is not the point. It is rather that some black marks are given for offenses made long before the player was penalized for breaking a rule.

 

 

 

Don't you all think (and I know you do) that this is a little wrong? Wouldn't you agree that Jagex should give us all a little bit of slack, a small break, an inch of leeway or whatever variation you can think of for the phrase

 

some warning please?!

 

 

 

That would be nice wouldn't it? A bit of common courtesy. I propose a one month window, at the most, for customer support to make their claim. I do think that this should only apply to rule 1, offensive language, because it is one of the most reported rules in the game and it is easily broken. This is the one rule that seems to end up getting people black marks, months after they have committed the offense in the game.

 

 

 

But this is not nearly as important as forgiveness. Just as reports should not be valid after a certain amount of time, black marks which you have already received should not be either. Whether it be half a year to a year, the oldest black marks should be removed. Either that, or after serving the time, a player can do some good deeds, community service so to speak (imagine picking up noobs, i mean trash, around runescape), to remove the black marks. However we could not have them giving us "negative black marks" for reporting other players, because that would just encourage abuse of customer support, and more people would be banned/muted for unjust reasons.

 

 

 

That leads into my last point, also all about a bit of slack on our ropes.

 

 

 

Jagex is very tight on their rules, especially rule one. The slightest slip can get you in trouble. Even if you meant no harm, and if to us the comment was by no means offensive, you can still get a black mark for it. I think a sense of salutary neglect should be implied. In other words, small offenses should sometimes be given less serious punishment, while customer support may let other slide. It's up to them how serious something is though.

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think is the best solution?

 

Basically, what are you thoughts on subject?

[Smapla]

So what do you think? What is the answer?

 

What is the question?

 

 

 

Sorry, i don't mean to be... rude, but what you've done is basically write a persuasive essay. I don't see any questions you've left unanswered, as the purpose of your post was to give answers to the questions you think need answering.

 

 

 

Are you asking for alternative solutions? What exactly?

[25leaf]

basicly you want a statute of limitations to go into effect. I agree with that point. Most people forget they even broke a rule in the first place and have long since changed for the most part.

 

 

 

However I think blackmarks should remain on the account otherwise people will simply break the rules a soon as the account is clean again. That would create quite a cycle.

[benar]

Oh, sorry, of course. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think is the best solution, what are other possible solutions, and what do you think are the possible benefits and problems.

 

 

 

Basically, what are you thoughts on subject?

[benar]

Yes, a statute of limitations. That can sum it up. It makes no sense why people have offenses held against them which they committed so long ago.

 

 

 

You are very right that many people do change in time too.

[neonihilist]

The solution is not to break the important rules, like real word trading and hacking.

[benar]

Haha, true.

 

 

 

But I'm mainly concerned about offensive language. It is over-reported and often players are unjustly marked when customer support simply doesn't understand what happened.

 

 

 

How can they truly judge when they weren't there?

[aafftteerr]

Jagex most likely does not have the time personnel to monitor a one month window on certain things, though I do agree that over time certain black marks should be erased, people change and some may have been from a misunderstood/accidental incident.

[benar]

Yes, i don't suggest they monitor it though. If they don't get to it within the time period, then they shouldn't be able to hold it against us.

[gun_hippy]

I think the entire rule is ridiculous, a high level with no marks at all is a rare sight, because it is so easy to slip up....

 

 

 

half mine where just bad timing, or forgetting the / for clan chat, even typos being classed as censor evasion...

 

 

 

Chances are i'll end up perm muted for accidents.

 

 

 

The offensive language rule shouldn't be there, sure, keep the censor, put the people trawling through thousands of reports a day to making the censor efficient. Win win.

[benar]

Good point. The censor should be doing all of the work, but rule 1 is still needed for serious offenses.

[Olbritishchap]

My thoughts-they should read something as important as a last chance appeal. i had 1 offense(Real world trading, which i didn't do -.-) and they denied it, because "you have continued to break rules, time and time again" and "because of your attitude within runescape". WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH REAL WORLD TRADING?!! sorry for the caps lol. but the first one is complete and utter bs, they said i broke it once, not numerous times...

[qeltar]

IMO, Jagex is, if anything, too lax. People abuse others, break rules, use autotypers and continue to be allowed to play. The last thing the game needs is for things to get even looser than they are now.

[benar]

Jagex may seem to relaxed with other rules, but the way they hound on rule one gets ridiculous. They can't take everything a player says so seriously. They need to start forgiving.

 

 

 

However i do still agree that they need to wake up with the autotypers and bots, even with as much as they do already.

[the_tallest1]

It defies logic that all blackmarks regardless of offense stay forever. Even bankruptcy gets expunged eventually.

 

 

 

And for those who say they deserved the blackmark so deal with it. No, plenty of people get them and have no clue whatsoever how or why. -.-

[benar]

Great input. If bankruptcy is eventually wiped from a persons stone, then a small black mark should be to.

 

 

 

Of course, though, there needs to be a limit.

[goldhawk]

I think it mainly depends on the level and how much play time the account has.

 

As I have suggested before players with higher levels should have thier reports/apeals real more carefully and have thier experience and past report history taken into account(they dont actualy take you offence history into account currently).

 

Also as you have said Black marks should go away after a period of time, say...1-2 years? After all Have you ever heard of a scammer/Bad player who stayed with the same account for 2years?, I know I havent.

 

 

 

My accounts is victim to the report system, i got 2bms for saying "lol, you can hack jagex", when i meant to say "can't", doh :wall: !

[benar]

Good idea. Although player equality is being fair, i do admit that some priority should be based on something such as in-game activity.

 

 

 

I do know someone who has committed several offenses and been severely penalized for them, and stayed in the game; myself. That is why I am advocating this topic. I have been permanently muted for over a year. Although a portion of my black marks, all of which I merit from offensive language, are justified, another portion us unjustified. Not only that, but a handful of them are from a considerable period of time before I was given my black marks. Lets not forget I've already been muted for over a year. So I have offenses from about a year and four months ago. Thats almost a year and a half.

 

 

 

Besides all of that. I have changed. I have definitely changed. Being struck without speech for so long has taught me respect.

[QueenValerie]

I think the entire rule is ridiculous, a high level with no marks at all is a rare sight, because it is so easy to slip up....

 

I am rare! :thumbup:

 

 

 

Seriously though I think it really depends on the offense but if in fact it is something irrelevant

 

such as a curse word then I personally feel the black mark should not remain perm. Now if it was a

 

player typing in a keylogger/scamming site then perm it should be.

 

Afterall we are humans and we make mistakes also mistakes are made to be forgiven at times. :)

[Lakitsym_Rose]

A pure suggested on Official forums a little while ago that we should have a forgiving idea-like thing. Someone has a blackmark and after X amount of time without getting another they take it away. This would improve RS because people would act more friendly and appropriate so their blackmarks would deminish.

[Triforceelf]

I once got a black mark almost four months after I "committed" the crime. I got a black mark for linking to a gold selling site, which was actually my clans website, and I was shocked that Jagex would give me one for something that happened so long ago! Fortunetly I got it revoked, but I feel your pain for the unjustness of these marks.

[benar]

It's good to hear so many others out there have the same ideas.

[truffoo]

I'm sure a good solution would be for black marks on low-mid offenses to be removed after a time and a small gp fine of 10k payable to me.

 

 

 

Sounds fair to me :^o

 

 

 

 

 

But seriously, I've got to agree. Context needs to be looked at more than it is already. At a minimum, old black marks should carry less weight if they can't be completely removed.

[benar]

There is another interesting possibility. Black marks weighing less over time. To me that is almost as good as having them removed.

[IAm314159]

No, I still feel that Jagex has been fair and rather just in their implementation of the rules. People should not go about swearing or scamming and getting themselves reported. I have not swore (or scammed) a SINGLE time in RuneScape since I joined last year.

 

 

 

Although your suggestion to allow the oldest black marks to be removed is rather feasible, people may again yet have a relapse and go back to their original ways. So I suggest Jagex implement HEAVIER penalties upon those who break the same rule (e.g. Rule 1) again, like for example giving them 2 black marks instead of just 1. It would deter would-be bad-mouthed people and other noobs.