Lateralus Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Answer your own questions, please. It's nice to hear why people are religious. I've said this many times in this thread, but the thought that something so abstract like a conscience evolved from simple chemical and energy reactions really doesn't make sense. And if we did all evolve from the earliest forms of life, why aren't there other organisms on the earth that have a conscience and thought process. Additionally, its nice to have someone to talk to about stuff that you are too embarrassed to say out loud. Its similar to the concept of an imaginary friend. People find comfort in imaginary friends, just as I find comfort in a being such as God. I agree that the fact that the human mind emerged from the animal mind is amazing, but I don't see how peculiarity points to the supernatural. Other animals have unique (or at least different and highly adapted) features, why should conscience be any different from those? The reason I asked why you are religious is because you asked why anyone would believe in the Christian god. If you know what you've got to gain, why did you ask? Being religious is not some huge sacrifice; If you genuinely believe that by obeying your god's rules, however stringent they may be, that you'll be granted eternal bliss, then I don't understand how anything could be that hard to obey. La lune ne garde aucune rancune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Maybe it's something only common to us religious folk, but I personally consider the idea of sheer humanness different than anything that animals have, and it being something - for lack of a better word, magical. Something that defies any laws the part of us that makes up our minds as a part. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Bleh, more anthropocentrism. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (I had to look that word up.) Yeah, why shouldn't we consider ourselves more important than animals or plants? Not saying kill everything you see if it's not human, but when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be a tough choice if I had to choose between an animal or a human (exceptions are something like my pet dog versus a mass murderer). catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (I had to look that word up.) Yeah, why shouldn't we consider ourselves more important than animals or plants? Not saying kill everything you see if it's not human, but when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be a tough choice if I had to choose between an animal or a human (exceptions are something like my pet dog versus a mass murderer). While it may be biologically beneficial to think that way, in it's extremes it leads to an unrealistic hoisting of humans onto the highest echelons of reality. That often involves the belief that we're the pinnacle of evolution/magical/the center of the universe/etc. Biology (and astronomy, for the last one) shows us that this isn't the case, and hence anthropocentric thinking isn't entirely accurate. I think a lot of religious/theistic beliefs are probably fueled by the concept of anthropocentrism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Extremes of anything lead to consequences, of course. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1991 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I don't see how we can debate this further.. Never could in the first place. Honestly, if someone could come up with an actual good argument for the existence of God I would consider it. How are you defining God here..? As my own personal belief. Are you deliberately being so vague..? Also, how are we defining "real"? Coherence or correspondence theory of truth? Neither. It's religion. Are you realist or anti-realist? Without these two definitions set in stone we really can't debate whether God "exists" or not.. Oh, really? I guess I wasn't aware of that. Oh, wait. And if you're putting "exists" in quotes, you should technically put "not" in quotes. A fanciful, uncommon part of English I read in a grammar book yesterday. I wasn't putting "exist" in quotes as some sort of insult implying that he doesn't - what I was trying to get across was the question, how do you define existence..? Goes back to the whole realism and anti-realism thing. Without a definition of God, and a definition of existence, we can't really debate whether "God exists". Hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1991 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 @ Sly.. ever heard of Sathya Sai Baba? I'm not into discounting people's experiences nor am I into arguing why other religions are wrong (Which I don't. I even defend Scientology). So what about Sathya Sai Baba? I'm not into converting you or anything, but debating is interesting, hearing different points of view is interesting. On Sathya Sai Baba.. check your PM. Hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Inc Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 So you're a realist, and a Democrat? Not to bring two threads together, but Democrats are idealists... Second: We've given atheists perfectly good arguments, and you ignore them, not even reply to the posts. So right now, how about you give me a good argument NOT to. And, how would you define existance? I think there's only one way too. I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193) Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KCIf you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 A couple of questions I'd like answered: -Evolution has been proven and tested. It is the most comprehensive explanation as to how we are as we are. What I'd like to know is, if "God" created us in his image, which one of our phases is God? -Is there any other thing you believe in that is untestable, intangable, and not physically existant? Why do you choose to believe that god is the only thing that can be those three and still exist? For kicks, how about a brain teaser: Can god create a rock that is too large for him to lift? If he can, then he would be incapable of lifting it, so he cannot be all powerful. If he cannot create it, then, again, he is not an all powerful creator. Cut the [cabbage], Satenza tried that. God would find a way, and you still wouldn't give a [cabbage], as proven by humans in general. Just to quickly note, I don't think i ever said that. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Inc Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 No, but you said the same thiung in concept, something like if God could make a spherical cube he couldn't exist or something, it's a last ditch effort to think you're right. I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193) Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KCIf you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1991 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 So you're a realist, and a Democrat? Not to bring two threads together, but Democrats are idealists... Second: We've given atheists perfectly good arguments, and you ignore them, not even reply to the posts. So right now, how about you give me a good argument NOT to. And, how would you define existance? I think there's only one way too. *sigh*.. Hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Lion Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Off-Topic, but I really like your signature, Noob. |Signature by Jason321| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Jay99 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Second: We've given atheists perfectly good arguments, and you ignore them, not even reply to the posts. So right now, how about you give me a good argument NOT to. I can live my life perfectly fine without ever praying to God or whatever else you have to do to be a believer. Even if 'God shaped mankind, without Him you wouldn't even be here, He will always care about you even if you go the wrong way'. Whatever, like there will happen anything to me that couldn't have happened to believers. Second, I don't see a reason to believe in anything if I don't think there's enough proof. I don't think a book such as the bible proves the existence of a God. Over 2000 years ago, people believed in Gods like Zeus and Anubis. They didn't have proof against their existence either, but now, in 2008, everyone in his right mind will see that those Gods aren't real. Why would that be any different with the gods we believe in nowadays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunokiller Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 And, Bruno, you didn't answer the question, please answer the one I asked, not the one you want. Why ask questions when you don't want to have them answered? :lol: And your post was just a random one I picked to reply to, so please ask your question again. My blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly_Wizard Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 @ Sly.. ever heard of Sathya Sai Baba? I'm not into discounting people's experiences nor am I into arguing why other religions are wrong (Which I don't. I even defend Scientology). So what about Sathya Sai Baba? I'm not into converting you or anything, but debating is interesting, hearing different points of view is interesting. On Sathya Sai Baba.. check your PM. I did read it. I don't think you understood what I wrote out. I'm not going to sit here and argue why one religion is right and another wrong, as that would involve discrediting people's personal experiences. My only aim is to argue why Christianity is true. There's a difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (I had to look that word up.) Yeah, why shouldn't we consider ourselves more important than animals or plants? Not saying kill everything you see if it's not human, but when it comes down to it, it wouldn't be a tough choice if I had to choose between an animal or a human (exceptions are something like my pet dog versus a mass murderer). I might agree if I confined myself to looking at the Earth, but then I look at the scale of Universe and the mind simply boggles. It's very humbling. This is a fantastic video for gaining a sense of perspective. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMoreDead Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 No, but you said the same thiung in concept, something like if God could make a spherical cube he couldn't exist or something, it's a last ditch effort to think you're right. How is this a "last ditch effort"? Just because you cannot find an answer to the question doesn't mean it's our last ditch effort, nor does it mean that you've answered the question by saying (in essence), "Don't try that on us". So you're a realist, and a Democrat? Not to bring two threads together, but Democrats are idealists... People can be both. Democrats are not inherintly idealists. Just like some Christians choose to believe in evolution, regaurdless of the fact that it doesn't logically fit with the creationist stories/beliefs. Second: We've given atheists perfectly good arguments, and you ignore them, not even reply to the posts. So right now, how about you give me a good argument NOT to. And, how would you define existance? I think there's only one way too. My mind seems to be fuzzy...Where did you lay out a coherient argument again? I see nothing in the way of factual evidence to support your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 That's why I imagine the sky after the moon as a curtain. I won't be seeing the rest of the universe in person in my lifetime, why bother worrying over whether or not we're the sliced bread of it? Anyways, True. I don't really wanna just mess with quoting, that'd be troublesome. How can you come up with an argument for something of the spirit? I've said this before; God isn't some ghost hiding out in the asteroid belt. You can't have a good existence by your terms. It's like asking the morals of 2 + 2, it's ridiculous. Yes, I am being vague, because my concept of God will be ridiculous to you - not to mention my concept of God changes with how I feel at any said moment. I'm a realist, but that's using it in a different context than what we're talking about, since I'm not sure what you mean. I know it wasn't meant as an insult. We've been past that for twenty pages. (Well, you and me...) Exist for you appears to be something you can touch or see or hear, like clothing. When I speak of God, it's a different existence. Like an imaginary friend, for lack of a better comparison. I know we can't. Even if we did have a common definition for God and existence, we still couldn't debate that. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J a m e s Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 A God that forces you to believe you were born with sin and punishes you for all eternity just for not abandoning your common sense and believing in his existence cannot be an all-loving God. That sounds more like an all-hating-unless-you-worship-and-love-me God. noobs crowding hill giants? not on my watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I know, I haven't even found a passage that quotes Jesus as saying that - I've only really found such a cruel God as being a hardcore Old Testament God. I don't believe that'd be true. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J a m e s Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I know, I haven't even found a passage that quotes Jesus as saying that - I've only really found such a cruel God as being a hardcore Old Testament God. I don't believe that'd be true. Wait, what? What are you talking about? When did I mention Jesus saying anything? :?: noobs crowding hill giants? not on my watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Lion Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I don't understand, then, if God is a all-hating-unless-you-worship-and-love-me God, why would Jesus, who has taught some of the greatest moral principals, teach that the God he believes in is the one, true God? A "good" person doesn't usually follow an "evil" God and teach against evil. |Signature by Jason321| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J a m e s Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I don't understand, then, if God is a all-hating-unless-you-worship-and-love-me God, why would Jesus, who has taught some of the greatest moral principals, teach that the God he believes in is the one, true God? A "good" person doesn't usually follow an "evil" God and teach against evil. Jesus never intended to start a religion. noobs crowding hill giants? not on my watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Inc Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 [hide=] No, but you said the same thiung in concept, something like if God could make a spherical cube he couldn't exist or something, it's a last ditch effort to think you're right. How is this a "last ditch effort"? Just because you cannot find an answer to the question doesn't mean it's our last ditch effort, nor does it mean that you've answered the question by saying (in essence), "Don't try that on us". So you're a realist, and a Democrat? Not to bring two threads together, but Democrats are idealists... People can be both. Democrats are not inherintly idealists. Just like some Christians choose to believe in evolution, regaurdless of the fact that it doesn't logically fit with the creationist stories/beliefs. Second: We've given atheists perfectly good arguments, and you ignore them, not even reply to the posts. So right now, how about you give me a good argument NOT to. And, how would you define existance? I think there's only one way too. My mind seems to be fuzzy...Where did you lay out a coherient argument again? I see nothing in the way of factual evidence to support your claim.[/hide] Ok, first off, I direclty didn't answer the question, but someone else did, and it was a perfect answer, IMO. Second, I agree with you about the Democrats being Idealists. Third: I have shown lots of "factual" evidencem ,youe just ignoring it. Look back. ;) Also, you've yet to show me any factual evidence. I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193) Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KCIf you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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