Is God real post your thoughts!

[D Jay99]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

Did you go to the Galapagos Islands to study evolution?

 

Did you build and learn yourself how to operate an automobile?

 

Were you there during the American Revolution?

 

 

 

The passing down of ideas and knowledge. More common then you think.

 

Evolution can be studied in high school experiments.

 

Are you talking about repairing it or driving it? Repairing requires you to do your suggestion, driving makes it unnecessary.

 

This is history verifiable by more than one unbiased document. Like, a quadrillion documents.

 

 

 

The Bible? One biased book, nothing more. Just because it's "passed down" don't mean it's right.

 

Greek myths about Zeus, Poseidon and many others were also passed down.

[Sly_Wizard]

The Bible? One biased book, nothing more. Just because it's "passed down" don't mean it's right.

 

 

 

Okay. First of all, the Bible isn't just "a" book. It's a collection of books and manuscripts. Second of all, the Bible-- More specifically, the New Testament-- Is the most sourced document of the Classical era, with over 24,000 available manuscripts (The next best sourced document, iirc, is Homer's Iliad with about 450'ish manuscripts). What say you about that?

[chris1216]

On a very random non-agressive note...

 

 

 

I tried to think up some truly great people along the veins of

 

 

 

Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Gandhi

 

Mother Teresa

 

 

 

that were atheist, and couldn't come up with any. At least, none that lived in the period of modern Christianity.

 

 

 

If no one else can either, it's certainly something worth thinking about.

[Wisp]

There is real world proof of evolution and all.

 

For a start, humans can create life from nothing, look into stanley miller's 1953 experiment.

 

And then we can change creatures, by breeding one's with mutations together

 

Dogs are a good example. The japanese do it a lot, for example they breed roosters with slightly longer tail feathers, and eventually the offspring have extremely long tails ( i forget exactly how long). Same can be said for dogs, corn, wheat, all domesticated plants and animals really.

[chris1216]

There is real world proof of evolution and all.

 

For a start, humans can create life from nothing, look into stanley miller's 1953 experiment.

 

And then we can change creatures, by breeding one's with mutations together

 

Dogs are a good example. The japanese do it a lot, for example they breed roosters with slightly longer tail feathers, and eventually the offspring have extremely long tails ( i forget exactly how long). Same can be said for dogs, corn, wheat, all domesticated plants and animals really.

 

 

 

The argument isn't against microevolution, which you are demonstrating with the dog example, but macroevolution.

[Ginger_Warrior]

There is real world proof of evolution and all.

 

For a start, humans can create life from nothing, look into stanley miller's 1953 experiment.

 

And then we can change creatures, by breeding one's with mutations together

 

Dogs are a good example. The japanese do it a lot, for example they breed roosters with slightly longer tail feathers, and eventually the offspring have extremely long tails ( i forget exactly how long). Same can be said for dogs, corn, wheat, all domesticated plants and animals really.

 

That's crossbreading, not evolution, but it does question the argument that God sets a path for the world when we can intervene that easily to be selective.

 

 

 

Okay. First of all, the Bible isn't just "a" book. It's a collection of books and manuscripts. Second of all, the Bible-- More specifically, the New Testament-- Is the most sourced document of the Classical era, with over 24,000 available manuscripts (The next best sourced document, iirc, is Homer's Iliad with about 450'ish manuscripts). What say you about that?

 

Nonetheless, it is arguably an account of events rather than evidence of those events.

[assassin_696]

On a very random non-agressive note...

 

 

 

I tried to think up some truly great people along the veins of

 

 

 

Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Gandhi

 

Mother Teresa

 

 

 

that were atheist, and couldn't come up with any. At least, none that lived in the period of modern Christianity.

 

 

 

If no one else can either, it's certainly something worth thinking about.

 

 

 

Clearly you weren't thinking very hard. To name only philosophers, and only a vanishing few at that:

 

 

 

• David Hume
   
  Ayn Rand
   
  Bertrand Russell
   
  Peter Singer
   
  Karl Marx
   
  Nietzche
   
  Jean-Paul Sartre
   
  Daniel Dennet
   
  Noam Chomsky

 

 

 

They're all atheist philosophers, and some of the greatest of all time (in my humble opinion). That's neglecting the vast majority of scientists (not just great ones) who are atheists, numerous politicians, comedians, authors, sportsmen, businessmen, activists etc. etc...

 

 

 

But this still tells us nothing, arguing from the authority of a few great people is a logical fallacy. You need to look at the reasons for why they believe or don't believe. Gandhi may have been a revolutionary but he was also a luddite who would have seen India go back to pre-industrial feudal economics. Martin Luther King Jr. campaigned for black rights, but his opposition weren't atheists, their faith was as strong as his. Mother Teresa endlessly proselytised, often to the detriment of her patients, and had many doubts about her faith.

 

 

 

I don't know what you're trying to suggest, but I can guess, and it's not worth going down that route.

 

 

 

The physical proof that God is real (in order to convince all the atheists here) does not exist. If you are expecting physical proof, you aren't going to get it. Might as well quit discussing this whole matter if all the atheists won't relate to anything but physical evidence.

 

 

 

So in what sense can something be said to exist if there is no physical proof for it? This is where I can never see eye to eye with theists.

[brunokiller]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

Did you go to the Galapagos Islands to study evolution?

 

Did you build and learn yourself how to operate an automobile?

 

Were you there during the American Revolution?

 

 

 

Have you seen the earth getting created in 6 days?

 

Did you see heaven?

[RichieMcD]

On a very random non-agressive note...

 

 

 

I tried to think up some truly great people along the veins of

 

 

 

Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Gandhi

 

Mother Teresa

 

 

 

that were atheist, and couldn't come up with any. At least, none that lived in the period of modern Christianity.

 

 

 

If no one else can either, it's certainly something worth thinking about.

 

 

 

There's a much smaller proportion of Atheists in most countries where those 3 lived, they were also during a period where much more people believed in Religion as Science still hadn't proved a lot by then. Really it's just not a good comparison.

[Saru Inc]

I'm wondering. Why do people believe in something divine (God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever) if all you've ever heard or seen from it was told you by other humans?

 

 

 

It hasn't...

 

You mean you've actually received a message from God?

 

 

 

Lol. Is all I gotta say, "actually."

 

 

 

And all I gotta say is, that in Warrior's case, you'd be Agnostic, you're just not sure. But Atheism IS a faith - you BELIEVE that God doesn't exist. You have your proof, we have ours, and neither will accept each other.

[Sly_Wizard]

On a very random non-agressive note...

 

 

 

I tried to think up some truly great people along the veins of

 

 

 

Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Gandhi

 

Mother Teresa

 

 

 

that were atheist, and couldn't come up with any. At least, none that lived in the period of modern Christianity.

 

 

 

If no one else can either, it's certainly something worth thinking about.

 

 

 

There's a much smaller proportion of Atheists in most countries where those 3 lived, they were also during a period where much more people believed in Religion as Science still hadn't proved a lot by then. Really it's just not a good comparison.

 

 

 

...The 20th century? o_O

[Rebdragon]

Lol. Is all I gotta say, "actually."

 

 

 

And all I gotta say is, that in Warrior's case, you'd be Agnostic, you're just not sure. But Atheism IS a faith - you BELIEVE that God doesn't exist. You have your proof, we have ours, and neither will accept each other.

 

For the love of... weak atheist, WEAK ATHEIST.

 

 

 

God damnit.

 

 

 

The Bible? One biased book, nothing more. Just because it's "passed down" don't mean it's right.

 

 

 

Okay. First of all, the Bible isn't just "a" book. It's a collection of books and manuscripts. Second of all, the Bible-- More specifically, the New Testament-- Is the most sourced document of the Classical era, with over 24,000 available manuscripts (The next best sourced document, iirc, is Homer's Iliad with about 450'ish manuscripts). What say you about that?

 

Does that make it right...?

[Saru Inc]

Wtf do you mean Reb?

[Rebdragon]

I'm contradicting you. What do you think I mean.

 

 

 

Hint: look at the big words :o!

[venomai]

And all I gotta say is, that in Warrior's case, you'd be Agnostic, you're just not sure. But Atheism IS a faith - you BELIEVE that God doesn't exist.

 

An atheist "does not believe in god(s)." Lacking belief in gods is different from believing that they do not exist.

 

 

 

Sometimes prefixes are used to narrow the meaning of atheism, where a "weak" atheist lacks belief in god and a "strong" atheist believes that god does not exist.

 

 

 

Agnostic is very different, as it deals with knowledge. For example, many theists are also agnostic (= agnostic theist). It is not a simple "one or the other" position.

 

 

 

I, personally, am a "strong atheist" for the same reasons that I believe that Russell's Teapot and Flying Pink Unicorns do not exist. My belief on the non-existence of such entities is not based purely on faith, but rather on reason and empirical values (rather, a clear lack of evidence). I reject their existence because I see no evidence to suggest they exist.

[Saru Inc]

Ohhh, ok, gotcha. Eh, whatever floats your boat.

[NoMoreDead]

A couple of questions I'd like answered:

 

 

 

-Evolution has been proven and tested. It is the most comprehensive explanation as to how we are as we are. What I'd like to know is, if "God" created us in his image, which one of our phases is God?

 

-Is there any other thing you believe in that is untestable, intangable, and not physically existant? Why do you choose to believe that god is the only thing that can be those three and still exist?

 

 

 

For kicks, how about a brain teaser:

 

 

 

Can god create a rock that is too large for him to lift? If he can, then he would be incapable of lifting it, so he cannot be all powerful. If he cannot create it, then, again, he is not an all powerful creator.

[Saru Inc]

A couple of questions I'd like answered:

 

 

 

-Evolution has been proven and tested. It is the most comprehensive explanation as to how we are as we are. What I'd like to know is, if "God" created us in his image, which one of our phases is God?

 

-Is there any other thing you believe in that is untestable, intangable, and not physically existant? Why do you choose to believe that god is the only thing that can be those three and still exist?

 

 

 

For kicks, how about a brain teaser:

 

 

 

Can god create a rock that is too large for him to lift? If he can, then he would be incapable of lifting it, so he cannot be all powerful. If he cannot create it, then, again, he is not an all powerful creator.

 

 

 

 

 

Cut the [cabbage], Satenza tried that. God would find a way, and you still wouldn't give a [cabbage], as proven by humans in general.

 

 

 

Second: You guys say its selfish to think wew're alone in this universe, and aliens are all three of those, and well, I think it's quite selfish to think we are able to evolve ourselves.

 

 

 

And NoMoreDead, you hit the nail right on the button, exactly, which phases? The only one. Which just goes to show, evolution is not compatible with the Bible. The way we are now, is the way we *looked* back then. And I'm still sticking with Evolution as a theory, since thats what my BIOLOGY teacher said, and she teached college Biology for 15 years, and is head of the science department, and every single SCIENCE TEACHER there, athiest or not, says Evolution is a theory, even thoughs that believe in it.

[Sly_Wizard]

Does that make it right...?

 

 

 

Given the large amount of manuscripts present, why wouldn't you believe it to be true?

 

 

 

For kicks, how about a brain teaser:

 

 

 

Can god create a rock that is too large for him to lift? If he can, then he would be incapable of lifting it, so he cannot be all powerful. If he cannot create it, then, again, he is not an all powerful creator.

 

 

 

This isn't a brain teaser. It's asinine. It's like asking if can you be the tallest person in the world.

[Errdoth]

And I'm still sticking with Evolution as a theory, since thats what my BIOLOGY teacher said, and she teached college Biology for 15 years, and is head of the science department, and every single SCIENCE TEACHER there, athiest or not, says Evolution is a theory, even thoughs that believe in it.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

 

It does not mean what I think you think it means.

[Rebdragon]

Does that make it right...?

 

 

 

Given the large amount of manuscripts present, why wouldn't you believe it to be true?

 

Because they're copies of the same thing; much like the works of Homer and the Beowulf poet, just because there were a lot of them doesn't mean all the events portrayed in them are true to the point of fact. There's [basically] no other angles to look at the matter from, hence the bias and uncertainty, especially when adding the supernatural.

[D Jay99]

Does that make it right...?

 

 

 

Given the large amount of manuscripts present, why wouldn't you believe it to be true?

 

Harry Potter, anyone?

[Lenticular_J]

...Harry Potter isn't true?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Does that make it right...?

 

 

 

Given the large amount of manuscripts present, why wouldn't you believe it to be true?

 

I'm gonna commit my life to writing one thousands manuscripts about the Pink Elephant. If I do that, will you believe He exists?

 

 

 

No?

 

 

 

How about if I call him the Messiah then?

[warren211]

For kicks, how about a brain teaser:

 

 

 

Can god create a rock that is too large for him to lift? If he can, then he would be incapable of lifting it, so he cannot be all powerful. If he cannot create it, then, again, he is not an all powerful creator.

 

 

 

A little Jewish girl was asked this question in school a long time ago. Her answer shocked the teacher and she was expelled. If you ask me, she nailed it on the mark.

 

 

 

Yes, God create a rock he couldn't move, and he did already. The human soul. If you believe in it, that is. Giving free will to us (again, only if you believe in it) made him powerless to change our ways. He can always guide us in the right direction, he can punish us if we do wrong, but he gave us free will and the only way to end that is to take it away, something he wouldn't do. So he couldn't move it because he wouldn't move it. Go ahead, think it out. I really don't think these "brain teasers" are the best ways to disprove a faith. I (though I support evolution) could also ask that if humans evolved from monkeys then why do monkeys still exist? I never got a good answer for that.

 

 

 

 

 

And Ginger, it wasn't one person dedicating his life to writing these scriptures. It was many people, often from different parts of the world and different backgrounds, who wrote these. Some of them weren't even Christian like Pliny the Younger who wrote a letter to the emperor Trajan about how Jesus is leading Christians and they are a threat to the empire.