Is God real post your thoughts!

[Perakp]

It does make a difference, if He didn't create it then we wouldn't exist, because He made us too.

 

Ok, so he did create me. Great. :-X

 

 

 

You are right about Him always succeeding with his plans, but we do have a free will. If we keep telling God that we do not want to do this for Him, He will find someone else to do it. I am positive that this happens in the Bible too.

 

What are god's plans? I hope I'm not helping him at this very moment. :ohnoes:

 

 

 

As for the last one, I am 100% sure that God will make sure that we will never be bored in heaven.

 

Eternity is a long time.

 

It is impossible for human beings to be happy all the time, how could this change in heaven? I don't want to lose my humanity.

 

 

 

Wow. You're so epic.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Tell me how to have gospel without God, I'm so eager to know

 

With gospel I mean the thing I've seen in TV, where all people are singing and praising the lord. Then we just leave the praising part away :mrgreen:

 

I haven't personally witnessed a gospel in person, but I hope my ignorance doesn't stop you from getting the point.

 

God is not needed to have a good life. You want proof, look at me. In my world there is no God, and still, here I am, still alive, and I have taken a bus twice today! 8-)

 

 

 

 

 

[13]

[Lenticular_J]

You better not say that paragraph sounds weird, or you'll be insulting my religion and my beliefs. Praise be to the Pink Elephant, lord of us all.

 

And I say to you: That you are Rebdragon; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[Saru Inc]

And, you gotta understand, the Pink Elephant wants what's best for us, he KNOWS whats best for us. Have you ever had something almsot awful happen to you? But by somewierd quirk it didn't? Ever think that was the Pink Elephant looking out for you? Once, I was supposed to ride the school bus home, in 1st grade, but my mom just happened to be near the school, so she picked me up, and we went home, an hoiur later, we found out the bus had gotten into a crash, and rolled a couple times, and many kids were seriously injured. People think that because you're Atheist the Pink Elephant hates you. You can't comprehend, no one can, that's it, NO ONE can comprehend how much the Pink Elephant loves us. The Pink Elephant loves Muslims, Emos, Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, Gays, [bleep], Adulterers, Pedophiles. Sure, you may be punished for what you did, but only because the Pink Elephant is looking out for you. Just like, when yuo were a kid, did you ever get spanked, or grounded? Your parents did that because they knew if they didn't punish you, you could think you could do whatever you want. And you'd be screwed over. And the Pink Elephant's mercy is new each day. You guys call him a Dictator? C'mon, why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because the Pink Elephant says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again. Noe sure, you're still gonna have to go to jail, or be executed, but the Pink Elephant will NEVER turn away a hungry soul. And tbh, I'd want to live forever, imagine being able to hang out with your cloests friends whenever you want? Heaven isn't supposed to be a chore, but a reward. Also, it matters A LOT if he created the world, he knew who you all were, before your great grandmas were born. The Pink Elephant knew you, before you existed, and he loved you. And he'll always love you, so I don't know why you call him that.

 

 

 

You better not say that paragraph sounds weird, or you'll be insulting my religion and my beliefs. Praise be to the Pink Elephant, lord of us all.

 

 

 

 

 

No, I won't be insulting your religion, you're just trying to be smart. God I hate explaining the obvious.

[J a m e s]

And, you gotta understand, the Pink Elephant wants what's best for us, he KNOWS whats best for us. Have you ever had something almsot awful happen to you? But by somewierd quirk it didn't? Ever think that was the Pink Elephant looking out for you? Once, I was supposed to ride the school bus home, in 1st grade, but my mom just happened to be near the school, so she picked me up, and we went home, an hoiur later, we found out the bus had gotten into a crash, and rolled a couple times, and many kids were seriously injured. People think that because you're Atheist the Pink Elephant hates you. You can't comprehend, no one can, that's it, NO ONE can comprehend how much the Pink Elephant loves us. The Pink Elephant loves Muslims, Emos, Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, Gays, [bleep], Adulterers, Pedophiles. Sure, you may be punished for what you did, but only because the Pink Elephant is looking out for you. Just like, when yuo were a kid, did you ever get spanked, or grounded? Your parents did that because they knew if they didn't punish you, you could think you could do whatever you want. And you'd be screwed over. And the Pink Elephant's mercy is new each day. You guys call him a Dictator? C'mon, why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because the Pink Elephant says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again. Noe sure, you're still gonna have to go to jail, or be executed, but the Pink Elephant will NEVER turn away a hungry soul. And tbh, I'd want to live forever, imagine being able to hang out with your cloests friends whenever you want? Heaven isn't supposed to be a chore, but a reward. Also, it matters A LOT if he created the world, he knew who you all were, before your great grandmas were born. The Pink Elephant knew you, before you existed, and he loved you. And he'll always love you, so I don't know why you call him that.

 

 

 

You better not say that paragraph sounds weird, or you'll be insulting my religion and my beliefs. Praise be to the Pink Elephant, lord of us all.

 

 

 

 

 

No, I won't be insulting your religion, you're just trying to be smart. God I hate explaining the obvious.

 

 

 

Except what's so obvious is to you is bafflingly naive to others.

[Rebdragon]

Pardon my ignorance, the obvious is not apparent to me.

[llamster]

why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because God says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again.

 

 

 

That's a new one.. Who goes to "hell" (or gehenna, which is the original biblical hebrew word used for a 'burning pit') then according to christian theology? Not a lot of christians would agree with you that every person, Hitler and 'casual mass-murderer' alike, can just utter a few words of repentance to make up for countless destroyed lives, years of torture... Your pastor is misintepreting his faith if he genuinely believes so & teaches it openly.

 

 

 

Christian universalists believe God will save any soul regardless of their actions through faith and repentance, it represents an extremely small portion of the total theological believer base of christianity though.

 

 

 

Extremely small portion? 100% of conservatives believe that God can forgive anybody (except possibly Satan). While many if not most Christians aren't conservative, it definitely isn't an extremely small percentage of Christians.

[Lenticular_J]

And Moses did say to the Pharoh: Let my pink elephants go.

 

 

 

Crap, I thought Reb's latest post was right above mine.

[pennywise]

i don't believe in god

[user1991]

 

 

 

And, you gotta understand,God wants what's best for us, he KNOWS whats best for us. Have you ever had something almsot awful happen to you? But by somewierd quirk it didn't? Ever think that was God looking out for you? Once, I was supposed to ride the school bus home, in 1st grade, but my mom just happened to be near the school, so she picked me up, and we went home, an hoiur later, we found out the bus had gotten into a crash, and rolled a couple times, and many kids were seriously injured. People think that because you're Atheist God hates you. You can't comprehend, no one can, that's it, NO ONE can comprehend how much God loves us. God loves Muslims, Emos, Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, Gays, [bleep], Adulterers, Pedophiles. Sure, you may be punished for what you did, but only because God is looking out for you. Just like, when yuo were a kid, did you ever get spanked, or grounded? Your parents did that because they knew if they didn't punish you, you could think you could do whatever you want. And you'd be screwed over. And God's mercy is new each day. You guys call him a Dictator? C'mon, why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because God says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again. Noe sure, you're still gonna have to go to jail, or be executed, but God will NEVER turn away a hungry soul. And tbh, I'd want to live forever, imagine being able to hang out with your cloests friends whenever you want? Heaven isn't supposed to be a chore, but a reward. Also, it matters A LOT if he created the world, he knew who you all were, before your great grandmas were born. He knew you, before you existed, and he loved you. And he'll always love you, so I don't know why you call him that.

 

 

 

Okay... but where's the evidence for all of this?

 

 

 

And on the bus crash scenario - why do you think the word "coincidence" exists? It's there for a reason. What's more likely, a fortunate (for you) run in with your Mum to avoid a bus crash, or, an invisible all knowing, all present, all powerful, all everything creator of the Universe interfering with the fabric of spacetime (if he can interfere for you then why can't he interfere for everyone else?) If this is your idea of evidence... I think God has put you here to test MY faith lmao..

 

 

 

What you're saying there doesn't make any sense.. If God loves everyone, why would he save just YOU? What about the other people that got injured. Why was there a bus crash in the first place? Oh, cause we have free will. But wait, he saved you didn't he?

 

 

 

Edit: If you're being sarcastic (which I doubt) then I apologize.

[Saru Inc]

 

 

 

And, you gotta understand,God wants what's best for us, he KNOWS whats best for us. Have you ever had something almsot awful happen to you? But by somewierd quirk it didn't? Ever think that was God looking out for you? Once, I was supposed to ride the school bus home, in 1st grade, but my mom just happened to be near the school, so she picked me up, and we went home, an hoiur later, we found out the bus had gotten into a crash, and rolled a couple times, and many kids were seriously injured. People think that because you're Atheist God hates you. You can't comprehend, no one can, that's it, NO ONE can comprehend how much God loves us. God loves Muslims, Emos, Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, Gays, [bleep], Adulterers, Pedophiles. Sure, you may be punished for what you did, but only because God is looking out for you. Just like, when yuo were a kid, did you ever get spanked, or grounded? Your parents did that because they knew if they didn't punish you, you could think you could do whatever you want. And you'd be screwed over. And God's mercy is new each day. You guys call him a Dictator? C'mon, why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because God says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again. Noe sure, you're still gonna have to go to jail, or be executed, but God will NEVER turn away a hungry soul. And tbh, I'd want to live forever, imagine being able to hang out with your cloests friends whenever you want? Heaven isn't supposed to be a chore, but a reward. Also, it matters A LOT if he created the world, he knew who you all were, before your great grandmas were born. He knew you, before you existed, and he loved you. And he'll always love you, so I don't know why you call him that.

 

 

 

Okay... but where's the evidence for all of this?

 

 

 

And on the bus crash scenario - why do you think the word "coincidence" exists? It's there for a reason. What's more likely, a fortunate (for you) run in with your Mum to avoid a bus crash, or, an invisible all knowing, all present, all powerful, all everything creator of the Universe interfering with the fabric of spacetime (if he can interfere for you then why can't he interfere for everyone else?) If this is your idea of evidence... I think God has put you here to test MY faith lmao..

 

 

 

What you're saying there doesn't make any sense.. If God loves everyone, why would he save just YOU? What about the other people that got injured. Why was there a bus crash in the first place? Oh, cause we have free will. But wait, he saved you didn't he?

 

 

 

Edit: If you're being sarcastic (which I doubt) then I apologize.

 

We've already been over this - so I won't discuss it any further. And the evidence is all around you, you can see it, but you choose not too.

 

 

 

 

 

But I don't know why I bother, I mean, to tell the truth, debating over the internet is stupid. No one ever changes their minds. Which is the point of debating.

[Rebdragon]

Dude, I seriously have no [bleep]ing idea what you're talking about. At least give us a hint what your point it.

[Utopianflame]

And God's mercy is new each day. You guys call him a Dictator? C'mon, why do you think axe murderers go to heaven? because God says "hey, you screwed up, really bad, but you're really sorry, and I love you, so I'll forigve you." And he never brings it up again.

 

 

 

Well the bible disagrees with you here.

 

 

 

Revelations 21:8 and 22:14-15 would say that murderers go to hell (or at least dependant on your doctrine they are outside of heaven).

[Saru Inc]

I'm not sure what you mean -

 

 

 

 

 

What I mean is, I find it funny that people cuss out a God, that they don't even think exists. ANd if God does exist, in they're opinion, they hate him. Not even try to see what he's like. It's illogical to hate something but yet not know anything about it.

 

 

 

At UtopianFLame, what the [bleep]? Are you [developmentally delayed]ed?

 

 

 

John 3:17-20 (New International Version)

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

 

 

 

17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[a] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What God means, is if they are NOT REPTANTANT. Good grief.

 

 

 

And John 3:17-3:20 says that we are ALL sinners, and each sin is the same in God's eyes, and we can all be forgiven. Did you know, that God sees you whacking your bro on the back in Anger, as the same as killing him in your heart? Now tbh, that makes no sense to me, but I know that God would forgive me for hitting my bro.

[Utopianflame]

Actually no i'm not but as you feel the need to carefully type out censored language (whether you or the bot did it) i'll tkae a moment to remind you of Mathew 15:11.

 

 

 

What you are espousing there is colloquially known as the 'faith doctrine', notably the belief that your actions have nothing to do with your salvation, only your faith (and willingness to repent, say on your death bed) and consequently you can do whatever you like with impunity so long as you believe at the end. Meanwhile anyone who has devoted their life to helping people but who does not believe in your god gets to go to hell (as noted in John3:18 which you so kindly posted.). Now personally I would question the mercy or grasp of the concept of justice that any being that would create and enforce such a policy.

 

 

 

On the subject of John 3:20 I take you do not consider Murder to be an evil action then?

 

 

 

Finally while I do agree it is illogical to hate something that you do not believe exists, it is however perfectly reasonable to hate a great deal of what humanity has done in the name of their gods.

[user1991]

We've already been over this - so I won't discuss it any further. And the evidence is all around you, you can see it, but you choose not too.

 

 

 

 

 

But I don't know why I bother, I mean, to tell the truth, debating over the internet is stupid. No one ever changes their minds. Which is the point of debating.

 

 

 

1. There is no "point" to debating, not in the sense you're speaking of anyway.

 

2. All around me..? How vague of you. Wow, I mean, I would be tempted to assume that you're all rhetoric but maybe, just maybe, you're onto something.

[Giordano]

And John 3:17-3:20 says that we are ALL sinners, and each sin is the same in God's eyes, and we can all be forgiven. Did you know, that God sees you whacking your bro on the back in Anger, as the same as killing him in your heart? Now tbh, that makes no sense to me, but I know that God would forgive me for hitting my bro.

 

So you're admitting into following something blindly? Without asking, without finding it out? Because you shouldn't just follow something without understanding it. That's why that part of 'God' is the most illogical and irreligious part of Christianity. I can have sex with a pretty girl, both being happy, before getting married, yet I can go out and kill three innocent folks which I stopped any form of happiness from getting to them, yet God will view those acts the same? That destroys all forms of justice and fairness, and saying God loves us all, I think some sort of fairness should apply to it.

[Riku3220]

I have a question for you Saru. If we all just go to heaven if we believe in God what's the point of being here? What's the point of living in misery and despair if we just end up in paradise that lasts forever? What's the point of even having a life if we just end up in paradise?

[Saru Inc]

And John 3:17-3:20 says that we are ALL sinners, and each sin is the same in God's eyes, and we can all be forgiven. Did you know, that God sees you whacking your bro on the back in Anger, as the same as killing him in your heart? Now tbh, that makes no sense to me, but I know that God would forgive me for hitting my bro.

 

So you're admitting into following something blindly? Without asking, without finding it out? Because you shouldn't just follow something without understanding it. That's why that part of 'God' is the most illogical and irreligious part of Christianity. I can have sex with a pretty girl, both being happy, before getting married, yet I can go out and kill three innocent folks which I stopped any form of happiness from getting to them, yet God will view those acts the same? That destroys all forms of justice and fairness, and saying God loves us all, I think some sort of fairness should apply to it.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

Here's an analogy, I hope it helps. A two year old wants to play with a knife, it's shiny, and the two year old is inquisitive. But the parent says no, the baby can't play with the knife, the baby has no idea why - but the parent knows better. And Pasta, what I'm saying is, no, it's not ok to go sin, 5 seconds later ask for forgiveness, go sin again, and repeat. I'm just saying, you make a mistake, and are truly repentant, you won't go to hell.

 

 

 

And @TheTrueNoob, what I mean, is there are too many coincidences. It's happened before, where leading atheistic scientists, or huge anti-Christian leaders have turned to Christianity. They realized the wonder that is God.

 

 

 

And, on the hell comment, UtopianFlame, well yea. It says in the Bible I think, somewhere (U say I think, because I've not read it directly, but many people say its in there) that a sinner goes to heaven, and God sees him and says, effectively, go to hell, depart from me. And the sinner says "why? I've always helped the poor, fed the sick, clothed the needy. I've never judged, and I've been a perfect human" and God says something along the lines of (as I said, not directly read it) well, that's cool and all, but ALL I asked you to do was believe that I love you, and that I am real, and love my son. You couldn't EVEN do that. So, depart from me. And yes, your actions have some to do with your salvation, but it really is based on faith. And Utopian, to your last sentence I add - just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it's wrong - or illogical.

 

 

 

And lastly - your comment about Matthew 5:11 is bull, 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

 

 

 

If anything, you're 'persecuting' me, because I believe in him, I'm not persecuting you, because you 'believe' in him, though I suspect you're an atheist, so why quote the Bible at all.

 

 

 

And yea, I cuss. Just because someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they're perfect, which people in this forum can't seem to grasp.

[Utopianflame]

 

And, on the hell comment, UtopianFlame, well yea. It says in the Bible I think, somewhere (U say I think, because I've not read it directly, but many people say its in there) that a sinner goes to heaven, and God sees him and says, effectively, go to hell, depart from me. And the sinner says "why? I've always helped the poor, fed the sick, clothed the needy. I've never judged, and I've been a perfect human" and God says something along the lines of (as I said, not directly read it) well, that's cool and all, but ALL I asked you to do was believe that I love you, and that I am real, and love my son. You couldn't EVEN do that. So, depart from me. And yes, your actions have some to do with your salvation, but it really is based on faith. And Utopian, to your last sentence I add - just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it's wrong - or illogical.

 

 

 

And lastly - your comment about Matthew 5:11 is bull, 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

 

 

 

If anything, you're 'persecuting' me, because I believe in him, I'm not persecuting you, because you 'believe' in him, though I suspect you're an atheist, so why quote the Bible at all.

 

 

 

And yea, I cuss. Just because someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they're perfect, which people in this forum can't seem to grasp.

 

 

 

Ok a few things. What if said 'perfect' person was never introduced to god or christ? Where does god stand now? The person is to be condemned for for not doing as they were asked when they were never in fact asked to do so?

 

 

 

MATTHEW 15:11 not 5:11. namely "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." i.e. your (bad) language defiles you. (This is KJV, assorted alternative translations can be found here http://bible.cc/matthew/15-11.htm). Also please get a dictionary and look up persecution.

 

 

 

You are correct I am an atheist, although I was raised as christian. Why quote the bible at you? Because it is your ground and you are supposed to live by it, if you will not debate with reason/logic/science then I am required to use your scripture.

[Saru Inc]

That's one thing I've been meaning to find out, actually. What happens if say, a native in some 3rd world poverty stricken country is a good person, but goes to hell because they never even had a chance to know Jesus. I'm not really sure, I've been meaning to ask someone.

 

 

 

2) Oops, sorry asbout the verse, that makes more sense lol. I was like "say wha?" and, I don't mean to be the 'holy preacher' but, just for the sake of argument, you're declaration that Jesus isn't real, or just you don't believe he's God defiles you also. And about the persecution, the emphasis was persecuting you becuase you believed in Jesus. But it was just the wrong verse anyways.

 

 

 

Also, I looked at the facts for science, and it doesn't add up. However, (personal opinion) I think it's quite reasonable for there to be a God. And logic has nothign to do with it, as someone brought up somewhere else, logic is how you form an argument.

 

 

 

Lastly, you sorta disregarded what I said, is that Christians aren't perfect, I have a big language problem, and an anger problem. So uhh.. not really sure where you're going with the whole 'defile' thing.

[BlueLancer]

You just found out why a lot of people are atheists (not me, but just saying):

 

 

 

I think it's quite reasonable for there to be a God. And logic has nothign to do with it, as someone brought up somewhere else, logic is how you form an argument.

 

 

 

 

1. Logic is how you form an argument

 

2. If God were to exist, there must be logical proof

 

3. Since there is no logical reason to believe a God exists, just like there is no logical reason to believe a spaghetti monster or purple rabbit exist, by default, he doesn't

 

 

 

Faith is only a 'reason' for people already in the religion. To the people outside, it means nothing. Using pure logic, it's impossible to convert anyone to a religion. It can be only done through appeal to emotion.

 

 

 

I don't necessarily discount the possibility of a God existing, but it's impossible to argue 'for' his/her/it's existence, so I understand where the atheists are coming from.

 

 

 

Nothing is proven unless you have empirical proof that can be reproduced or examined. You can't prove something that by definition can't be seen, tasted, touched or heard (and the only proof that people have 'heard' such an entity is a single book/compilation of ancient manuscripts written during a time of superstition & religious persecution).

 

 

 

[hide=]

 

For a fact or statement to be true, it has to have verifiable sources and empirical proof

 

a fact is defined as something that is true, something that actually exists, or something having objective reality that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation

[/hide]

[Utopianflame]

That's one thing I've been meaning to find out, actually. What happens if say, a native in some 3rd world poverty stricken country is a good person, but goes to hell because they never even had a chance to know Jesus. I'm not really sure, I've been meaning to ask someone.

 

 

 

Well if you believe the bible to be inerrant and literal then they are going to hell. Where is the mercy in that?

[Lenticular_J]

I think the Bible needs a new verse.

 

 

 

Lenticular 7:54: And the Lord Jesus did rise upon the commoners, who bickered and bit at each other, and cast them all aside. With His pimp hand.

 

 

 

Quite eloquent. Seriously, that's why I usually don't debate this stuff. I believe there is a God, and Jesus is His Son, but what's arguing gonna do about it? My beliefs involve God letting whatever you think will happen happen, and possibly saving you from it if it's just too terrible.

[Cup Lion]

Most of the Bible is not literal. If [utopian] thought that even after reading all the parables, I am not sure you should even be discussing this.

 

 

 

Secondly, God is not all about fairness or equality, but justice. God judges your salvation according to your actions, beliefs, and, to say it in a general fashion, your background.

 

An isolated tribe in South Africa that has no knowledge of modern civilization or God, and that takes part in things such as cannibalism will not get the same treatment as a working person in the city. God will see that the cannibalism in the tribe is not a sin because the people in the tribe had no knowledge of it being wrong. Sin has three requirements: it has to be intrinsically evil action, the person has to know it is wrong, and they have to do it on their own accord.

 

 

 

If a person has never been introduced to God or Christ, God will judge that person accordingly. It will be much different that the judgement of a person who did know of God.

 

 

 

And Utopian, I don't think this is a place to quote the Bible and point out Saruman's sins. That's just pretty damn stupid.

[Utopianflame]

Cup_lion, I dont and have not. Although some people do. Literal was not the best choice of word (whether it is, or you believe it to be, inerrant is important though) a better word for the question would be complete.

 

 

 

Accepting that the bible is not literal does however create its own problem, beyond the obvious ones, who chooses which sections are literal and which are not?

 

 

 

As for gods idea of justice i'm afraid I have had a rather dim view of that ever since I read the old testament (rape victims being the obvious one).

 

 

 

Also John 14:6 doesn't agree with you as it states that the only way to god (ie heaven) is through jesus.

 

 

 

While I agrree it's not the place for pointing out any given persons sins, I was not intending to do so, it was just a slightly creative way of saying 'this is a debate, try not to get abusive'.