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Joes_So_Cool

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I don't understand how the first organism just became. What did it evolve out of? And since we've all divided from that one cell, wouldn't that literally make every single person and living thing on the planet, well, the same?

 

 

 

Skillerman explained abiogenesis fairly well. The only thing I'd fault him on is that endosymbiotic theory doesn't state that the Golgi apparatus came from bacteria (you don't really need to worry about that because it has nothing to do with the formation of the first cell).

 

 

 

Alternately, you can check out this website.

 

 

 

As for the second question, we're not the same because of mutations in the replication of DNA. Every time a cell divides, the DNA must be replicated; in essence it needs to form a clone of itself. The problem is that life isn't perfect, and every now and then mistakes creep in. A mutation can be the insertion or deletion of a single nucleotide or the substitution of one nucleotide for another.

 

 

 

Assuming you don't know highschool bio (sorry if you do), a nucleotide is the basic building block of DNA and it comes in four types - A, G, T and C. So when the sequence "AGGTTCA" is replicated, on a rare occasion it may result in the copy being "AGCTTCA" or even "AGGTTTCA". These changes are passed down the cell generations and in organisms like us, to our sperm and eggs. Essentially, mutations are the foundation of evolution.

 

 

 

Alternately, a broad class of processes called genetic recombination can cause more significant changes in DNA. For example, when our chromosomes are copied, the copies line up along the equator of a dividing cell before being partitioned into the two daughter cells. It's at this time that the clones can exchange information with each other, or the maternal copy can exchange information with the paternal copy. That's called crossing over, and unequal crossing over can result in one cell with extra information and the other with "deleted" information. This facilitates another process called gene duplication, which then leads to the evolution of gene families. Ok, I'll not go off on a tangent too much. You can ask me more about that if you like.

 

 

 

Another means of attaining genetic identity between organisms comes with genome duplication, which, not unlike the crossing over scenario, results in both copies of all chromosomes entering the one daughter cell. This process is called nondisjunction, and it can also lead to duplication of entire individual chromosomes. Some of these changes are biologically feasible, while others aren't. You can think of Down Syndrome as an example here - they have an extra copy of the 21st chromosome. Again, the reason for that is a failure of cell division to partition the chromosomes properly, i.e. nondisjunction.

 

 

 

Well, that deals with change, but something else I'm getting from your question is why aren't we more similar if we all came from a common origin. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your question, but I'll answer it anyway.

 

 

 

Warren essentially touched on this point in his post - at the fundamental level, all life is remarkably similar. Firstly, all life uses DNA as the genetic material (made of the same four nucleotides, no less), and its function in all organisms is the same - to direct the production of proteins via the genetic code. Speaking of the genetic code, it is very similar across all life on earth and identical across most species, hence why we can express human proteins in E. coli, for example (diabetics probably know what I'm talking about as they get their insulin through that technology). The next logical obervation here is that all life uses the same subset of 20 amino acids to make proteins. There are some exotic outliers like selenocysteine and pyrrolysine, but those fundamental 20 are the main ones by far.

 

 

 

The next point of similarity would be metabolism, where all organisms utilise glucose as their main metabolic fuel and shunt it through the glycolysis pathway to generate energy. The majority of organisms (save for some families of bacteria that rely only on glycolysis) then input the products of that process into the citric acid cycle, which provides energy to fuel another fundamental metabolic process - oxidative phosphorylation. Some bacteria get tricky and use sulphates, nitrates, hydrogen gas, etc, as final electron acceptors whereas we animals use oxygen gas for that purpose.

 

 

 

And as Warren said, all organisms use the same energy currency to drive our chemical reactions - ATP.

 

 

 

Some things I didn't understand, but I'm not a big fan of Biology, it's interesting, but for some reason I don't like.

 

 

 

First off, could you explain what selenocysteine and pyrrolysine is? I'm guessing Amino Acids?

 

 

 

And also, this paragraph points exactly to my link (Answers In Genesis) in that, it's a pressumption. When I see that, I think "well no duh, Adam and Eve had one set, and they had kids and so on." While you think of it as "it's just how the first strand was created, and it was never meant to differ."

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

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Some things I didn't understand, but I'm not a big fan of Biology, it's interesting, but for some reason I don't like.

 

 

 

First off, could you explain what selenocysteine and pyrrolysine is? I'm guessing Amino Acids?

 

 

 

And also, this paragraph points exactly to my link (Answers In Genesis) in that, it's a pressumption. When I see that, I think "well no duh, Adam and Eve had one set, and they had kids and so on." While you think of it as "it's just how the first strand was created, and it was never meant to differ."

 

 

 

Yes, selenocysteine and pyrrolysine are amino acids.

 

 

 

I don't exactly understand your other point. I wouldn't take Answers in Genesis seriously because they're motivated by their own religious beliefs, not an objective search for the truth.

 

 

 

I still don't think it makes sense. Call me a romantic, but I don't think that A) An organism (or even cell) just sprung up out of nothing, and B) That we humans just one day were drinking from a pond and actually saw ourselves. I think something else - I call Him God - had a hand in it.

 

 

 

Quite romantic. But why do you want to simplify these issues to the point of inaccuracy in the process? There's way more to abiogenesis than life coming from nothing.

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Did you read it? (No offence)

 

 

 

It didn't try to convince you in anyway, all it was saying is, we're all given the exact same facts, and some people will always look at them differently, based on their background and such.

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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Did you read it? (No offence)

 

 

 

It didn't try to convince you in anyway, all it was saying is, we're all given the exact same facts, and some people will always look at them differently, based on their background and such.

 

 

 

That makes sense, but it doesn't make the two equally rational positions. Not by a long shot.

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I really have no idea what I am here. I believe in God, and I'm Catholic, yet I['m pro choice and] support evolution.

 

Christianity and stupidity are not mutually inclusive.

[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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Did you read it? (No offence)

 

 

 

It didn't try to convince you in anyway, all it was saying is, we're all given the exact same facts, and some people will always look at them differently, based on their background and such.

 

 

 

That makes sense, but it doesn't make the two equally rational positions. Not by a long shot.

 

 

 

Not trying to be stubborn, but I'm not sure I follow, could you elucidate please?

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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Did you read it? (No offence)

 

 

 

It didn't try to convince you in anyway, all it was saying is, we're all given the exact same facts, and some people will always look at them differently, based on their background and such.

 

 

 

That makes sense, but it doesn't make the two equally rational positions. Not by a long shot.

 

 

 

Not trying to be stubborn, but I'm not sure I follow, could you elucidate please?

 

 

 

As you said, people will look at the facts differently and form their conclusions (although misinterpreting and misrepresenting is different from simply looking at). That doesn't mean that both conclusions are equally valid. For example, someone might say that the Holocaust happened while someone else might say it didn't. Those aren't equally valid conclusions based on the evidence we have.

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I see what you're saying now, thanks. But in my opinion, I don't think that would apply in this situation. After all, both have facts, while Evolution\Science tend to rely on quantitative, Religion tends to stray to qualitative.

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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It's funny how Saruman suddenly turns so non-aggressive when warri0r's around :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

And as the both of you said, there's no way we can have two equal pisitions just because neither one can disprove the other because of the various ways of viewing this. Saruman, maybe I overlooked a post, but what specific religion are you? Just wonderin'.

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tip it would pay me $500.00 to keep my clothes ON :( :lol:
But then again, you fail to realize that 101% of the people in this universe hate you. Yes, humankind's hatred against you goes beyond mathematical possibilities.
That tears it. I'm starting an animal rebellion using my mind powers. Those PETA bastards will never see it coming until the porcupines are half way up their asses.
[/hide]

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Oh, I just think that Warri0r, though I disagree with all his views, can debate. So yea, I get less frustrated.

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm not sure, I used to be Presbyterian, then Baptist, then Non Demoniational, then Penecostal. Now I'm none, I'm a 'Christ Follower.' ( I got the term from the youtube vids. I find Christians as a whole, disgusting, I go to the youth group at my chuyrch, instead of seeeing nice faces, I see stoners making out, cussing out the youth group leader and listening to their iPods. And then they mock me for 'not reading the Bible enough.' My mom thinks I'm too cynical, but I don't like very many Christians. Most of my friends are Atheists, or Methodists.

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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I really have no idea what I am here. I believe in God, and I'm Catholic, yet I['m pro choice and] support evolution.

 

Christianity and stupidity are not mutually inclusive.

 

 

 

Did I provoke you in some way?

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Get back here so I can rub your butt.

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Did I attack you in some way?

[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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The word 'stupidity' generally does come up an attack, but I probably just misunderstood you.

 

 

 

P.S. Let's get this thread to 200 pages! (because I said this, it will die at 199 pages just one post short)

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it's kind of interesting, i've found that some people say that god is real and they can prove it, and other say he isn't and they can prove it, and it's not even about who's right and wrong any more. It's about pride, and who's smarter, and frankly i dont give a **** about any of that bull**** anymore. I don't think god is something you can 'prove' or 'rationalize', because one of the things that makes god god is that what he does is not possible. For me, it's like, i really like the idea that someone can know me, and not just the 'me' that everyone sees, but all the ****ed up parts of me that i don't tell anyone about because i desparately want them to like me. To think that someone could know that, and love me anyways, that is the great miracle.

 

 

 

And i think love is real and god is love, so wherever you see love, compassion, selflessness, you see god. and i don't think he really shows up in churches. I think he shows up in drunk guys on the bus at 2:30 in the morning, and recovering crackheads. In smoking cigars (yes i'm over 18) with friends while playing pool and laughing.

 

 

 

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion :)

xchariotx.png

 

"One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."-Martin Luther King

 

"The Kingdom of God is anarchy"-Nicolas Berdyaev

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Did you read it? (No offence)

 

 

 

It didn't try to convince you in anyway, all it was saying is, we're all given the exact same facts, and some people will always look at them differently, based on their background and such.

 

 

 

I Might have misinterpreted you here, but I wouldn't take religion as fact.

 

Oh and to the guy above me, there are actually (good) scientific theories about what love is.

 

 

 

One last thing, I don't see why evolution and creationism can't co-exist. God creates something, which evolves into something else and so on. I'm an atheist who believes in evolution, but still I can't see why evolution and creationism can't co-exist (I haven't read the bible so point out any reasons if you feel like it)

 

 

 

And to answer the question in the topic, no I don't believe in a god that preaches equality and love yet condemns homosexuality and approves of slavery

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it's kind of interesting, i've found that some people say that god is real and they can prove it, and other say he isn't and they can prove it, and it's not even about who's right and wrong any more. It's about pride, and who's smarter, and frankly i dont give a **** about any of that bull**** anymore. I don't think god is something you can 'prove' or 'rationalize', because one of the things that makes god god is that what he does is not possible. For me, it's like, i really like the idea that someone can know me, and not just the 'me' that everyone sees, but all the ****ed up parts of me that i don't tell anyone about because i desparately want them to like me. To think that someone could know that, and love me anyways, that is the great miracle.

 

 

 

And i think love is real and god is love, so wherever you see love, compassion, selflessness, you see god. and i don't think he really shows up in churches. I think he shows up in drunk guys on the bus at 2:30 in the morning, and recovering crackheads. In smoking cigars (yes i'm over 18) with friends while playing pool and laughing.

 

 

 

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion :)

 

 

 

That was beautiful. Honestly, probably the best description of God I've ever heard. I'm saving this.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all.

there are no stupid questions

just way too many inquisitive idiots

balance is scary to people who like things easy for them

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it's kind of interesting, i've found that some people say that god is real and they can prove it, and other say he isn't and they can prove it, and it's not even about who's right and wrong any more. It's about pride, and who's smarter, and frankly i dont give a **** about any of that bull**** anymore. I don't think god is something you can 'prove' or 'rationalize', because one of the things that makes god god is that what he does is not possible. For me, it's like, i really like the idea that someone can know me, and not just the 'me' that everyone sees, but all the ****ed up parts of me that i don't tell anyone about because i desparately want them to like me. To think that someone could know that, and love me anyways, that is the great miracle.

 

 

 

And i think love is real and god is love, so wherever you see love, compassion, selflessness, you see god. and i don't think he really shows up in churches. I think he shows up in drunk guys on the bus at 2:30 in the morning, and recovering crackheads. In smoking cigars (yes i'm over 18) with friends while playing pool and laughing.

 

 

 

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion :)

 

 

 

That was beautiful. Honestly, probably the best description of God I've ever heard. I'm saving this.

 

 

 

Huh? It was a very typical post generalizing creationists and atheists into just two groups. Just because the thought of a God makes you comfortable and happy should not be the basis of belief.

noobs crowding hill giants? not on my watch

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I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all.

 

 

 

If parts or even large chunks of the Bible "should not be taken literally" why should any of it be taken seriously at all?

 

 

 

Sorry, should've edited this into last post.

noobs crowding hill giants? not on my watch

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I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all.

 

 

 

If parts or even large chunks of the Bible "should not be taken literally" why should any of it be taken seriously at all?

 

 

 

Sorry, should've edited this into last post.

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think it should, others would disagree. The conclusion was back on page 75 or so though, that you can not take the entire of the bible literally.

there are no stupid questions

just way too many inquisitive idiots

balance is scary to people who like things easy for them

Utopianflame.png

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it's kind of interesting, i've found that some people say that god is real and they can prove it, and other say he isn't and they can prove it, and it's not even about who's right and wrong any more. It's about pride, and who's smarter, and frankly i dont give a **** about any of that bull**** anymore. I don't think god is something you can 'prove' or 'rationalize', because one of the things that makes god god is that what he does is not possible. For me, it's like, i really like the idea that someone can know me, and not just the 'me' that everyone sees, but all the ****ed up parts of me that i don't tell anyone about because i desparately want them to like me. To think that someone could know that, and love me anyways, that is the great miracle.

 

 

 

And i think love is real and god is love, so wherever you see love, compassion, selflessness, you see god. and i don't think he really shows up in churches. I think he shows up in drunk guys on the bus at 2:30 in the morning, and recovering crackheads. In smoking cigars (yes i'm over 18) with friends while playing pool and laughing.

 

 

 

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion :)

 

 

 

That was beautiful. Honestly, probably the best description of God I've ever heard. I'm saving this.

 

 

 

Huh? It was a very typical post generalizing creationists and atheists into just two groups. Just because the thought of a God makes you comfortable and happy should not be the basis of belief.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, I do not believe in God. Furthermore, one's basis for belief in God can be whatever they choose. If I want to believe in God because I feel that he gave us delicious bacon to eat, then so be it.

 

 

 

And that's a damn good reason.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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