Is God real post your thoughts!

[J a m e s]

it's kind of interesting, i've found that some people say that god is real and they can prove it, and other say he isn't and they can prove it, and it's not even about who's right and wrong any more. It's about pride, and who's smarter, and frankly i dont give a **** about any of that bull**** anymore. I don't think god is something you can 'prove' or 'rationalize', because one of the things that makes god god is that what he does is not possible. For me, it's like, i really like the idea that someone can know me, and not just the 'me' that everyone sees, but all the ****ed up parts of me that i don't tell anyone about because i desparately want them to like me. To think that someone could know that, and love me anyways, that is the great miracle.

 

 

 

And i think love is real and god is love, so wherever you see love, compassion, selflessness, you see god. and i don't think he really shows up in churches. I think he shows up in drunk guys on the bus at 2:30 in the morning, and recovering crackheads. In smoking cigars (yes i'm over 18) with friends while playing pool and laughing.

 

 

 

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion :)

 

 

 

That was beautiful. Honestly, probably the best description of God I've ever heard. I'm saving this.

 

 

 

Huh? It was a very typical post generalizing creationists and atheists into just two groups. Just because the thought of a God makes you comfortable and happy should not be the basis of belief.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, I do not believe in God. Furthermore, one's basis for belief in God can be whatever they choose. If I want to believe in God because I feel that he gave us delicious bacon to eat, then so be it.

 

 

 

And that's a damn good reason.

 

 

 

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

 

 

 

- Carl Sagan

 

 

 

If you can't see why this is I cannot help you.

[Saru Inc]

I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all.

 

 

 

 

 

No, we didn't conclude that. Just because you say something over and over concludes nothing.

[tryto]

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

God is Omnimax, according to the bible. He knows everything that will ever happen and has happened, and can do absolutely anything. Despite this, he created humanity, KNOWING that they would be seduced by a serpent. He created the serpent, KNOWING that it would seduce Eve. He created the tree of knowledge, KNOWING that it would be eaten despite his telling man not to(This is still ridiculous, as since humanity at this time has no knowledge of good or evil, and thus doesn't know that eating the apple is bad. "God told them so" is not a good reason). So, I come to the conclusion, that should he exist, he deliberately inflicted these "scars" upon you, on purpose, in full knowledge. That is, of course, if he existed, which based on this is not logical.

 

 

 

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able? Then he is not omnipotent, directly contradicting the bible.

 

If he is able, but not willing? Then he is evil, as he allows evil to happen even though he could easily stop it, as well as CREATING that evil, in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it would be evil.

 

If he is able and willing? Then evil should not exist.

 

If he isn't able or willing? Then he's not God.

 

 

 

~Epicurus.

 

 

 

Just as an aside, there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan. Not at all.

[J a m e s]

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

God is Omnimax, according to the bible. He knows everything that will ever happen and has happened, and can do absolutely anything. Despite this, he created humanity, KNOWING that they would be seduced by a serpent. He created the serpent, KNOWING that it would seduce Eve. He created the tree of knowledge, KNOWING that it would be eaten despite his telling man not to(This is still ridiculous, as since humanity at this time has no knowledge of good or evil, and thus doesn't know that eating the apple is bad. "God told them so" is not a good reason). So, I come to the conclusion, that should he exist, he deliberately inflicted these "scars" upon you, on purpose, in full knowledge. That is, of course, if he existed, which based on this is not logical.

 

 

 

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able? Then he is not omnipotent, directly contradicting the bible.

 

If he is able, but not willing? Then he is evil, as he allows evil to happen even though he could easily stop it, as well as CREATING that evil, in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it would be evil.

 

If he is able and willing? Then evil should not exist.

 

If he isn't able or willing? Then he's not God.

 

 

 

~Epicurus.

 

 

 

Just as an aside, there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan. Not at all.

 

 

 

I've seen this quote a million times and there is still is no possible way to dispute it. Good luck to anyone who attempts.

[BlueLancer]

there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan

 

 

 

That's not really true at all, as far as I recall.. In the book of Revelations, Satan is said to be a "crooked/twisted/old serpent" just like Leviathan (who is described to be a serpent and monster). I looked it up and the exact verse is 12:9

 

 

 

12:9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

 

 

The passage really can't be any more clear on the issue..

 

 

 

The riddle of Epicurus has been debated for centuries though, and it exposes the flaws of the Old/New testament God's supposed qualities. The correct riddle is:

 

 

 

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to

 

Then He is not omnipotent.

 

 

 

If He is able, but not willing

 

Then He is malevolent.

 

 

 

If He is both able and willing

 

Then whence cometh evil?

 

 

 

If He is neither able nor willing

 

Then why call Him God?

 

 

 

It's impossible to dismantle by logic. I think some parts of the Bible work against itself by assigning almost every possible attribute to God and making him logically implausible.

[Perakp]

The Bible also states that Pi is three.

 

Where is this? :o

 

 

 

e: thanks :D

[Utopianflame]

The Bible also states that Pi is three.

 

Where is this? :o

 

 

 

 

 

Its in Kings 7:23

[Flyingjj]

As to why god lets evil happen, god gave people the right to choose (free will), and we still bear the scars from that broken choice. Everytime i ask god why these things happens, why we experience the broken quality of life, i feel a soft whisper saying 'you tell me why these things happen. you are my body, my hands, my feet. What are you doing to love a world that has broken itself?'

 

 

 

God is Omnimax, according to the bible. He knows everything that will ever happen and has happened, and can do absolutely anything. Despite this, he created humanity, KNOWING that they would be seduced by a serpent. He created the serpent, KNOWING that it would seduce Eve. He created the tree of knowledge, KNOWING that it would be eaten despite his telling man not to(This is still ridiculous, as since humanity at this time has no knowledge of good or evil, and thus doesn't know that eating the apple is bad. "God told them so" is not a good reason). So, I come to the conclusion, that should he exist, he deliberately inflicted these "scars" upon you, on purpose, in full knowledge. That is, of course, if he existed, which based on this is not logical.

 

 

 

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able? Then he is not omnipotent, directly contradicting the bible.

 

If he is able, but not willing? Then he is evil, as he allows evil to happen even though he could easily stop it, as well as CREATING that evil, in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it would be evil.

 

If he is able and willing? Then evil should not exist.

 

If he isn't able or willing? Then he's not God.

 

 

 

~Epicurus.

 

 

 

Just as an aside, there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan. Not at all.

 

I doubt the able, but not willing point. God is able. However, he is not willing because of free will. This aligns with omniscience if you think of him knowing all that ever will be but still having faith that humanity will make the correct choices. Also, you could say that God knows all that ever could be. Besides, if there were no evil there would be no way of judging what is good. Also, you learn a lot from evil/bad events. They have taught me more about life than almost anything else.

[warren211]

I concur MorningRise, that was a much better description then I could ever give.

 

 

 

As to BloodStain its the kind of thing, where it makes perfect sense, but not true. It makes perfect sense of how they can co exist, but there's stuff in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible also states that Pi is three. We also came to the conclusion that the bible should not be taken literally - Genesis least of all.

 

 

 

If parts or even large chunks of the Bible "should not be taken literally" why should any of it be taken seriously at all?

 

 

 

Sorry, should've edited this into last post.

 

 

 

There's a difference between taking it literally and taking it seriously. The Bible was not one author, it was many of them. So while Genesis and Revelations might be 90% symbolism, some of the gospels may be mainly fact. And just because we don't follow some symbolic stories word for word, it doesn't mean we're not taking it seriously. Genesis is just as important in living as God wants you to as the other books in the Bible dispite their different literary styles.

[tryto]

there is no mention in the bible whatsoever of the serpent being Satan

 

 

 

That's not really true at all, as far as I recall.. In the book of Revelations, Satan is said to be a "crooked/twisted/old serpent" just like Leviathan (who is described to be a serpent and monster). I looked it up and the exact verse is 12:9

 

 

 

12:9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

 

 

The passage really can't be any more clear on the issue..

 

 

 

The riddle of Epicurus has been debated for centuries though, and it exposes the flaws of the Old/New testament God's supposed qualities. The correct riddle is:

 

 

 

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to

 

Then He is not omnipotent.

 

 

 

If He is able, but not willing

 

Then He is malevolent.

 

 

 

If He is both able and willing

 

Then whence cometh evil?

 

 

 

If He is neither able nor willing

 

Then why call Him God?

 

 

 

It's impossible to dismantle by logic. I think some parts of the Bible work against itself by assigning almost every possible attribute to God and making him logically implausible.

 

 

 

I'd still disagree; it makes no reference at all to the Garden, to a fall of man, to knowledge, to a tree, to anything at all. Satan may be a serpent, but was he that serpent? Remember, this is a very important topic, and if he was responsible for the fall of man, surely Paul would have mentioned it? To be honest, you can really construe the bible to mean pretty much anything you want, especially Revelations. I never said that he wasn't a serpent; I wouldn't be surprised if people of that age saw snakes as evil cunning tricksters, regardless of mythology. I'd agree with your last point.

 

 

 

I doubt the able, but not willing point. God is able. However, he is not willing because of free will. This aligns with omniscience if you think of him knowing all that ever will be but still having faith that humanity will make the correct choices. Also, you could say that God knows all that ever could be. Besides, if there were no evil there would be no way of judging what is good. Also, you learn a lot from evil/bad events. They have taught me more about life than almost anything else.

 

 

 

So. You believe that God does know everything that will happen. You're forgetting the creation part. God creates atheists, knowing that they will be atheists, and then decides to throw them in hellfire. God creates diseases, war, and murder, on purpose, to hurt you. God is a mentally challenged eight year old, playing with bugs and then punishing them for doing what he sentenced them to do perfectly conscious of what they would do.

 

 

 

Humanity made the correct choices? Let's take the bible. God created the Isrealites knowing that they would follow idolatrous gods, then punished them for doing that. God created adam and eve, knowing that they would eat the "evil" apple and he would have to punish them for it. God created Job, knowing that he would punish him and his family for no reason other than a petty disagreement with Satan, and created Satan knowing that he would cause the fall of man, if you believe he was the serpent.

 

 

 

Face it. With an omniscient, omnipotent god, there can be no free will. He knows everything that will happen. Everything is preordained.

[Flyingjj]

 

I doubt the able, but not willing point. God is able. However, he is not willing because of free will. This aligns with omniscience if you think of him knowing all that ever will be but still having faith that humanity will make the correct choices. Also, you could say that God knows all that ever could be. Besides, if there were no evil there would be no way of judging what is good. Also, you learn a lot from evil/bad events. They have taught me more about life than almost anything else.

 

 

 

So. You believe that God does know everything that will happen. You're forgetting the creation part. God creates atheists, knowing that they will be atheists, and then decides to throw them in hellfire. God creates diseases, war, and murder, on purpose, to hurt you. God is a mentally challenged eight year old, playing with bugs and then punishing them for doing what he sentenced them to do perfectly conscious of what they would do.

 

 

 

Humanity made the correct choices? Let's take the bible. God created the Isrealites knowing that they would follow idolatrous gods, then punished them for doing that. God created adam and eve, knowing that they would eat the "evil" apple and he would have to punish them for it. God created Job, knowing that he would punish him and his family for no reason other than a petty disagreement with Satan, and created Satan knowing that he would cause the fall of man, if you believe he was the serpent.

 

 

 

Face it. With an omniscient, omnipotent god, there can be no free will. He knows everything that will happen. Everything is preordained.

 

I never mentioned the creation part on purpose. It does not apply. Once God originally created everything, the possibilities were open. He saw and sees all those possibilities, but leaves humans to make choices that affect which ones actually occur. He may have a hand in everyone's creation, but that doesn't mean he forces them down a certain path, even if he has a path he wishes they would take. I never said humanity made the correct choices, I only said that God had faith they would make them. They didn't, hence the punishment. God does not make Atheists, they choose to become them. To be omniscient, you don't have to know everything that will happen, only everything that can happen (which is far more impressive).

 

 

 

To be certain, God can interfere if and when he wants to, as with Job, but that's the point now, isn't it?

[tryto]

 

I doubt the able, but not willing point. God is able. However, he is not willing because of free will. This aligns with omniscience if you think of him knowing all that ever will be but still having faith that humanity will make the correct choices. Also, you could say that God knows all that ever could be. Besides, if there were no evil there would be no way of judging what is good. Also, you learn a lot from evil/bad events. They have taught me more about life than almost anything else.

 

 

 

So. You believe that God does know everything that will happen. You're forgetting the creation part. God creates atheists, knowing that they will be atheists, and then decides to throw them in hellfire. God creates diseases, war, and murder, on purpose, to hurt you. God is a mentally challenged eight year old, playing with bugs and then punishing them for doing what he sentenced them to do perfectly conscious of what they would do.

 

 

 

Humanity made the correct choices? Let's take the bible. God created the Isrealites knowing that they would follow idolatrous gods, then punished them for doing that. God created adam and eve, knowing that they would eat the "evil" apple and he would have to punish them for it. God created Job, knowing that he would punish him and his family for no reason other than a petty disagreement with Satan, and created Satan knowing that he would cause the fall of man, if you believe he was the serpent.

 

 

 

Face it. With an omniscient, omnipotent god, there can be no free will. He knows everything that will happen. Everything is preordained.

 

I never mentioned the creation part on purpose. It does not apply. Once God originally created everything, the possibilities were open. He saw and sees all those possibilities, but leaves humans to make choices that affect which ones actually occur. He may have a hand in everyone's creation, but that doesn't mean he forces them down a certain path, even if he has a path he wishes they would take. I never said humanity made the correct choices, I only said that God had faith they would make them. They didn't, hence the punishment. God does not make Atheists, they choose to become them. To be omniscient, you don't have to know everything that will happen, only everything that can happen (which is far more impressive).

 

 

 

To be certain, God can interfere if and when he wants to, as with Job, but that's the point now, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Main Entry

 

Pronunciation

 

Function:

 

adjective

 

Etymology:

 

New Latin omniscient, omnisciens, back formation from Medieval Latin omniscientia

 

Date:

 

circa 1604

 

 

 

1 having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight 2 possessed of universal or complete knowledge

 

omnisciently adverb

 

 

 

 

INFINITE awareness. You just stated that god is not omniscient; he doesn't know what will happen. You just contradicted your bible.

 

 

 

The definition of omnimax, which is what god is represented as in the bible, is as an omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient being.

 

 

 

The definition of omniscience and omnipotent, is that he knows everything that will happen. God knows that an atheist will choose to be one, and that he will then punish them for it. He doesn't interfere in that, so you say. If you saw a man lying hurt in the street, you would probably help him, right? God has the power to help him, but he doesn't. In fact, because of his omnimax abilities, he put that person in that situation. Dealing with free will and this type of god is an exercise in contradictions. God creates people, knowing what they will be, has "faith" that they will change, but knowing ahead of time when creating them that some will and some won't, and then proceeds to punish the ones who don't. It's all futility.

 

 

 

You say that God gave us free will. It's like giving someone tools, and then when they use them, punishing them for it. It's exactly what he's doing. Giving us the tool of free will, then punishing those who actually use them, instead of merely blinding following an ancient text that contradicts itself.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: May I ask what made you choose the Christian God above all others?(I'm assuming) What reasoning do you have that it is preferable another kind of god.

[Howlin0001]

To be certain, God can interfere if and when he wants to, as with Job, but that's the point now, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

(Small thing and kinda off topic a bit) Who said god is a he? Maybe god is a she or a heshe.

[tryto]

To be certain, God can interfere if and when he wants to, as with Job, but that's the point now, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

(Small thing and kinda off topic a bit) Who said god is a he? Maybe god is a she or a heshe.

 

 

 

That's why I assumed he was a Christian, or at least Judeo-Christian. The Bible refers to god in the male sense, while many others believe it was a female(They do, after all, bring human life into the world) The female worshipers are mainly native americans, I believe, but there are others.

[Flyingjj]

 

EDIT: May I ask what made you choose the Christian God above all others?(I'm assuming) What reasoning do you have that it is preferable another kind of god.

 

I will not fully address argument, since it is obvious we will continue to disagree on the point. It does, however, seem to come down to the definition of omniscient. The problem with definitions is that they can be different for various and have slightly different meanings. Also, omniscient is an English (or Latin) word, meaning it could and probably does have a slightly different meaning than the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Old and New (respectively) Testaments were originally written. So, it comes down to me taking a slightly different turn with omniscient than you. Or I could go deeper into my own faith and say that although God does know what everyone will do, he still has hope and faith that that is not what they will do(I know that doesn't make sense, don't waste your time on that one). Or, how do you know that the future is something that is knowledge. After all, it hasn't happened yet, and therefore does not exist. Before you bring up the easy way out on that one (prophecy), God can act to make prophecies happen in specific ways.

 

 

 

As for the man lying in the street, if the two (you finding him and God helping him) are not mutually exclusive, then perhaps God manipulated certain events in your life(perhaps sending a thought to you that delays you just enough to miss the bus and have to walk home) to ensure that you find the man and help him.

 

 

 

Ignore the following comment completely, it's more of an off hand remark than an argument of any sort: Perhaps it is all an exercise in futility. Noone knows the meaning of life and, as far as I know, none is given in the Bible, except that God wanted to "play God" and have fun, in which case we are all like army men in his little war to entertain himself.

 

 

 

Anyway, as for my own faith, I became Christian because I was raised Christian, but I stayed Christian through an extensive faith journey started when I doubted my faith in God when I was around ten and continues until this day, the details of which are extremely personal and I do not wish to share over the internet.

[J a m e s]

 

I doubt the able, but not willing point. God is able. However, he is not willing because of free will. This aligns with omniscience if you think of him knowing all that ever will be but still having faith that humanity will make the correct choices. Also, you could say that God knows all that ever could be. Besides, if there were no evil there would be no way of judging what is good. Also, you learn a lot from evil/bad events. They have taught me more about life than almost anything else.

 

 

 

So. You believe that God does know everything that will happen. You're forgetting the creation part. God creates atheists, knowing that they will be atheists, and then decides to throw them in hellfire. God creates diseases, war, and murder, on purpose, to hurt you. God is a mentally challenged eight year old, playing with bugs and then punishing them for doing what he sentenced them to do perfectly conscious of what they would do.

 

 

 

Humanity made the correct choices? Let's take the bible. God created the Isrealites knowing that they would follow idolatrous gods, then punished them for doing that. God created adam and eve, knowing that they would eat the "evil" apple and he would have to punish them for it. God created Job, knowing that he would punish him and his family for no reason other than a petty disagreement with Satan, and created Satan knowing that he would cause the fall of man, if you believe he was the serpent.

 

 

 

Face it. With an omniscient, omnipotent god, there can be no free will. He knows everything that will happen. Everything is preordained.

 

I never mentioned the creation part on purpose. It does not apply. Once God originally created everything, the possibilities were open. He saw and sees all those possibilities, but leaves humans to make choices that affect which ones actually occur. He may have a hand in everyone's creation, but that doesn't mean he forces them down a certain path, even if he has a path he wishes they would take. I never said humanity made the correct choices, I only said that God had faith they would make them. They didn't, hence the punishment. God does not make Atheists, they choose to become them. To be omniscient, you don't have to know everything that will happen, only everything that can happen (which is far more impressive).

 

 

 

To be certain, God can interfere if and when he wants to, as with Job, but that's the point now, isn't it?

 

 

 

Couple things --

 

 

 

1) All humans are born atheist. They only become Christians because of fellow humans. You would never have become a Christian if the word of human beings hadn't told you there was a God. In other words, God never told you he exists. Humans did.

 

 

 

2) God is all-knowing. He can't not know what people will choose. The way you describe it makes God something that sees all possible futures yet is surprised that one of those futures is chosen by humans instead of another one. That is not God.

[Flyingjj]

Couple things --

 

 

 

1) All humans are born atheist. They only become Christians because of fellow humans. You would never have become a Christian if the word of human beings hadn't told you there was a God. In other words, God never told you he exists. Humans did.

 

 

 

2) God is all-knowing. He can't not know what people will choose. The way you describe it makes God something that sees all possible futures yet is surprised that one of those futures is chosen by humans instead of another one. That is not God.

 

1) I'll concede the point - almost. Atheist implies that you have made a conscious decision to believe there is no God or religious entities at all. You are not born believing this fact, making you more... agnostic, perhaps? Atheism is a belief in and of itself. The second part is debatable, but lies solely on the religious basis that the Bible is the Word of God.

 

 

 

2) See my last post. Basically, he can not know what people will choose because they haven't chosen yet, or something to that effect. Surprised? No. Disappointed? Maybe. If you knew everything would you be surprised by anything? Things can, however, turn out differently than you would have liked.

[Zierro]

2) See my last post. Basically, he can not know what people will choose because they haven't chosen yet, or something to that effect. Surprised? No. Disappointed? Maybe. If you knew everything would you be surprised by anything? Things can, however, turn out differently than you would have liked.

 

 

 

When it comes to almighty omniscience, I think predicting the future would be a piece of cake.

[Flyingjj]

2) See my last post. Basically, he can not know what people will choose because they haven't chosen yet, or something to that effect. Surprised? No. Disappointed? Maybe. If you knew everything would you be surprised by anything? Things can, however, turn out differently than you would have liked.

 

 

 

When it comes to almighty omniscience, I think predicting the future would be a piece of cake.

 

Well, I don't. See, difference in opinions. Since the future has not happened, it doesn't exist, and I therefore think that it is not something that is known, knowable, or even something to begin with.

[Zierro]

Well, I don't. See, difference in opinions. Since the future has not happened, it doesn't exist, and I therefore think that it is not something that is known, knowable, or even something to begin with.

 

 

 

Omniscience means knowing everything infinitely. Since when doesn't the future constitute as part of everything?

[Obtaurian]

 

 

 

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

 

 

 

- Carl Sagan

 

 

 

If you can't see why this is I cannot help you.

 

 

 

I can see it. I understand it. If that's how you feel, then good for you. You win an internet or two. As for me? I feel the same way. We're on the same side of the table, only I understand that everyone chooses their own table.

[Zierro]

 

 

 

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

 

 

 

- Carl Sagan

 

 

 

If you can't see why this is I cannot help you.

 

 

 

I can see it. I understand it. If that's how you feel, then good for you. You win an internet or two. As for me? I feel the same way. We're on the same side of the table, only I understand that everyone chooses their own table.

 

 

 

I agree on that. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Who is to say which one is really "better"? It's a basic human necessity to aim to feel satisfied and reassured, and religion does fulfill that purpose. It just depends on what you think is more important in your life - being happy or being right.

[J a m e s]

 

 

 

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

 

 

 

- Carl Sagan

 

 

 

If you can't see why this is I cannot help you.

 

 

 

I can see it. I understand it. If that's how you feel, then good for you. You win an internet or two. As for me? I feel the same way. We're on the same side of the table, only I understand that everyone chooses their own table.

 

 

 

I agree on that. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Who is to say which one is really "better"? It's a basic human necessity to aim to feel satisfied and reassured, and religion does fulfill that purpose. It just depends on what you think is more important in your life - being happy or being right.

 

 

 

I don't care if someone is religious. If it only made them happy, that would be fine. It really doesn't effect the advancement of society as a whole (unless you count the amount of time people waste every Sunday).

 

 

 

The problem is when someone's religion effects everyone else in society. Religion is almost always the main reason why people are against same-sex marriage and abortion. When these issues are only issues mostly because of religion, we've got a problem.

[Zierro]

Very true. That is also the only problem I have with religion. If you want to go to church, worship, read, sing, and believe then that is your business. But when you take religion and try to force it on others or do questionable things in the name of your religion then there is a problem.

[Obtaurian]

Very true. That is also the only problem I have with religion. If you want to go to church, worship, read, sing, and believe then that is your business. But when you take religion and try to force it on others or do questionable things in the name of your religion then there is a problem.

 

 

 

Agreed. I live in California, and I'm still in shock that prop 8 actually passed. I'm not one to bash religion, but prop 8 went way too far. Encroaching on the basic rights of others is wrong, no matter which way you look at it. It makes me giggle that so many religious people actually thought they were fulfilling their God's will. Does God not teach us to hate the sin, not the sinner?