Marijuana, Is It Actually Bad?

[Necromagus]

(My comments in bold)

Great post necro. :)

 

 

 

I have a few questions if you don't mind...

 

- How are the prices? And do they tax it?

 

On average, a prerolled joint is ÃÆââââ¬Ã¡Ãâì3. When you combine the prices of the pot and tobacco buying just the weed generally comes down to about two thirds of that price, mostly depending on the price of the weed.

 

- Do regular citizens ever buy directly from the black market (dealers) or do they mostly use coffee shops?

 

Depends on your definition of dealer. People will occasionally buy from friends, but the shady guy in the dark alley after midnight is rarely used (for pot anyway).

 

- Has commercialism (brand names, logos, added ingredients/chemicals, whatever) badly affected the marijuana, or is it still good?

 

A few years ago there was a discussion in parliament about the concentration of THC in Dutch weed becoming too high, so I'd say open competition has led to improved quality. Snoop Dogg seems to think we've got it figured out, and I'd say he probably knows what he's talking about. Brand names and logos aren't used much (there's no chains or franchises of coffeeshops), but some shops do have their logo printed on the bags and tubes, or use papers with the name of the type of weed it's rolled with for their prerolled joints. Very few coffeeshops sell joints with added ingredients/chemicals.

 

- If your government legalized marijuana to the point that coffee shops needn't buy from the black market, would it help or hinder the situation?

 

If the supplies for coffeeshops could be grown more openly, it wouldn't be nearly as profitable a venue for organized crime as it is now. If police no longer had to deal with casual home growers, they could deal with problems like international smuggling, electricity theft (some growers tap their neighbour's electricity because of the cost of running heat lamps 24/7) and drug-related violence more efficiently.

 

- Can you still find a variety of strains (white widow, etc) or do you just get mystery bud?

 

Like I said, every coffeeshop has a menu, usually with at least five different varieties being offered in some form or other.

 

 

 

I'm hoping to travel to the Netherlands this summer. :)

[Evadek]

im actually quite surprised, 3 euros is just slightly cheaper than what I'd pay for a typical joint at the moment (that's from a dealer, obviously taking into account it's bought in a bag).

[Necromagus]

I guess it's mostly because of the cost of running what's basically a bar (with a slightly different menu). Rent, electricity, heating, etc., they're still businesses after all.

[Evadek]

I guess it's mostly because of the cost of running what's basically a bar (with a slightly different menu). Rent, electricity, heating, etc., they're still businesses after all.

 

 

 

I suppose it's the same with alcohol in that case, I wonder how much it would cost if it was sold in Supermarkets :-k

[Necrobean]

The thing with people saying that Weed screwed their friend up, or family member up is crazy. There must be more to the story. There's a reason why it's called "the gateway drug". After people have tried pot, they might want to try lacing it, or try harder drugs, then you will be messed up.

 

 

 

Yeah my brother switched to Ketamine and Speed shortly after, shame on him. In jail, altough that isn't stopping me, I'm trying weed someday anyway.

[no_way2go]

The thing with people saying that Weed screwed their friend up, or family member up is crazy. There must be more to the story. There's a reason why it's called "the gateway drug". After people have tried pot, they might want to try lacing it, or try harder drugs, then you will be messed up.

 

 

 

It isn't more a gateway drug then alcohol or sigarettes... this rumour started with a misleading study that showed most heroin addicts ever tried marijuana but they evenly tried alcohol or sigarettes. :-k

 

 

 

 

As for why it is illegal - the main party responsible is the lobby of cotton farmers, who realized that hemp, as a far superior source of natural fibers, could potentially ruin them. To give you an example: In response to the growing pressure on resources due to World War 2, Henry Ford designed and built a car made out of resin-stiffened hemp fibres that could run on ethanol extracted from hemp.

 

 

 

That's right, got a great documentary about it here somewhere, hemp is one of the cheapest materials to grow with a wide variety of uses: cloths (substitute for cotton), ropes (what do you think columbus used on his ships?), oil, ...

 

 

 

Now, Open your eyes!

 

The first real scientific study based on facts on the (long-term) effects of different drugs.

 

 

 

A new UK study suggests that the current UK drug classification system of A, B, and C of the Misuse of Drugs Act is flawed and should be replaced by an evidence-based system of potential harm that would place alcohol and tobacco higher than cannabis and ecstasy.

 

 

 

The study is published in The Lancet.

 

 

 

Professor David Nutt from the University of Bristol, Professor Colin Blakemore, Chief Executive of the Medical Research Council, and two colleagues developed a new drug ranking system that would class socially acceptable tobacco and alcohol as more harmful than cannabis, and considerably more dangerous than Class A drugs such as ecstasy and LSD.

 

 

 

They say the current classification system used in the UK is flawed and should be scrapped.

 

 

 

Their proposed system of classification asesses harm in an "evidence-based fashion". They use three main factors to determine the potential harm that a substance causes:

 

 

 

(1) Physical harm to the user,

 

(2) Tendency to induce dependence in the user, and

 

(3) The effect of its use on families, communities and society in general.

 

 

 

Within each factor there are three sub-categories which altogether made up a nine-category "matrix of harm". Each category attracts a score of between 0 and 3, with 3 representing the most harm. An overall mean harm score of between 0 and 3 is then calculated for each drug.

 

 

 

They asked two independent expert panels to score 20 different substances using this new system. The 20 drugs included five legal potentially misused substances (alcohol, khat, solvents, alkyl nitrites, and tobacco) and one recently classified one (ketamine) so that the league table showed some familiar "benchmarks".

 

 

 

The two panels found the method easy to use and came up with very similar harm scores for each drug.

 

 

 

In order of overall harm, the 20 drugs were given the following ranking (the most harmful, heroin at number 1 scored nearly 3, while the least harmful khat at number 20 scored less than 1):

 

 

 

(1) Heroin (most harmful).

 

(2) Cocaine.

 

(3) Barbiturates.

 

(4) Street Methodone.

 

(5) Alcohol.

 

 

 

(6) Ketamine.

 

(7) Benzodiazepines.

 

(8) Amphetamine.

 

(9) Tobacco.

 

(10) Buprenorphine.

 

 

 

(11) Cannabis.

 

(12) Solvents.

 

(13) 4-MTA (para-methylthioamphetamine).

 

(14) LSD.

 

(15) Methylphenidate (ritalin).

 

 

 

(16) Anabolic steroids.

 

(17) GHB (gamma hydroxybutyric acid).

 

(18) Ecstasy.

 

(19) Alkyl nitrites.

 

(20) Khat (least harmful).

 

 

 

Prof Nutt who led the study said, "Drug misuse and abuse are major health problems. Our methodology offers a systematic framework and process that could be used by national and international regulatory bodies to assess the harm of current and future drugs of abuse".

 

 

 

Prof Blackmore said that while drug policy is aimed at reducing harm to users, their families and society as a whole, the present system was not a "Rational, evidence-based method for assessing the harm of drugs". He said the system they have devised, on the other hand, is.

 

 

 

"We hope that policy makers will take note of the fact that the resulting ranking of drugs differs substantially from their classification in the Misuse of Drugs Act and that alcohol and tobacco are judged more harmful than many illegal substances," he added.

 

 

 

Under the current system in the UK, which is regulated by the Misuse of Drugs Act, drugs are classified in three groups, A, B and C. The heaviest conviction penalties are applied for possession of Class A drugs (up to 7 years in prison or unlimited fine or both), while Class C drugs are liable to the lowest penalties (up to two years in prison, unlimited fine or both).

 

 

 

Class A drugs include: Ecstasy, LSD, heroin, cocaine, crack, magic mushrooms (if prepared for use) amphetamines (if prepared for injection).

 

 

 

Class B drugs include: Amphetamines, Methylphenidate, Pholcodine.

 

 

 

Class C drugs include: Cannabis, tranquillisers, some painkillers, GHB, ketamine.

 

 

 

(Crystal meth is pending classification as a Class A drug.)

 

 

 

Profs Nutt, Blackmore and colleagues criticized the current Class A, B, C system saying it was too arbitrary, put too much emphasis on unusual reactions that affect very few users, and did not specify the relative risks of a drug.

 

 

 

In their conclusions they comment on what they see as its most glaring deficiencies:

 

 

 

"The fact that the two most widely used legal drugs lie in the upper half of the ranking of harm is surely important information that should be taken into account in public debate on illegal drug use. Discussions based on a formal assessment of harm rather than on prejudice and assumptions might help society to engage in a more rational debate about the relative risks and harms of drugs".

 

 

 

 

Don't you find it odd that tobacco, a drug that has millions and millions of users, is more harmfull then than drugs like LSD and ectasy wich are portraited as 'evil' and 'extremly dangerous' in the mainstream media...

 

Or that alcohol is more harmfull than Amphetamine (speed) and Ketamine... yet it is used by most adults :ohnoes:

 

 

 

Too bad the UK government alone recieves than 100 pounds a second on taxes from alcholic products.

 

Damn capitalistic world we live in, earning money with people's misery

[Evadek]

How the hell in that table can Cannabis score higher than ecstasy? have you ever heard of someone overdosing on Cannabis? I sure haven't!

[no_way2go]

How the hell in that table can Cannabis score higher than ecstasy? have you ever heard of someone overdosing on Cannabis? I sure haven't!

 

 

 

It also counts the following factors:

 

(1) Physical harm to the user,

 

(2) Tendency to induce dependence in the user, and

 

(3) The effect of its use on families, communities and society in general.

 

 

 

Don't forget smoking cannabis can also cause lung cancer and from my experience it has more effect on your social life than ectasy.

 

 

 

To bad I didn't find the actual number rating (from 1 to 3) in that article, it gives a better view on the matter.

[Necromagus]

A large risk for ecstasy users is also the pills containing something other than MDMA, although over here you can buy testing kits to see if a pill is clean or not.

[IGoddessI]

Exactly there is more to the story other than 'cannabis screwed up my friend'.

 

 

 

Why did they want to continuously escape their problems in the first place?

 

 

 

What caused those problems in the first place?

 

 

 

Who caused those problems in the first place?

 

 

 

Why did those problems occur?

 

 

 

When of age did they occur?

 

 

 

I've spoken to many drug users, reasons range from peer pressure, wanting to fit in, low self esteem, loss of control over their life, a lot of women use them for mood stabilisers, to get rid of the anxiety, have had a bad childhood, have addictive personalities, engage in risky activities, compulsive behaviour...

 

 

 

There is always usually an underlying problem.

 

 

 

I'm honest enough to say mine is due to risk taking behaviour and compulsive personality. IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m also very shy and it reduces social anxiety in small doses. I also like to think and analyse everything and some of the most philosophical and creative masterpieces, ideas IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ve created have been on small dosages of lsd, cannabis and mdma

[Necromagus]

You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ rrreal *bleep*ing high on drugs. The Beatles were so *bleep*ing high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.

[venomai]

Ecstasy (MDMA) can be surprisingly physically safe, especially if taken responsibly. One of the biggest problems with it is high body temperature, usually from drinking excess water and/or alcohol along with taking MDMA.

 

 

 

Here's some more info...

 

The UK figures suggest seven ecstasy-related deaths per million users. This compares to 625 alcohol-related deaths per million drinkers. In fact, more people in the UK die from choking on peanuts than from taking ecstasy.

 

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ecstasy/index.htm

 

 

 

I consider MDMA to be risky simply because of the circumstances it's used in.

[thargor01]

ok, quick question, well debate, I've got some kill and some white widow, which one is better? (and yess this is just a lil test...) ohh and coffee shops ftw!

[Bo4345]

meh ask towelie from south park if it's bad

[knives669]

How the hell in that table can Cannabis score higher than ecstasy? have you ever heard of someone overdosing on Cannabis? I sure haven't!

 

 

 

I've never heard of anyone overdosing on cannabis. And I know people who smoke A LOT of weed. :P

[NeCroLoGiCa]

ok, quick question, well debate, I've got some kill and some white widow, which one is better? (and yess this is just a lil test...) ohh and coffee shops ftw!

 

 

 

white widow believe me :wink:

[Futurama]

Ecstasy (MDMA) can be surprisingly physically safe, especially if taken responsibly. One of the biggest problems with it is high body temperature, usually from drinking excess water and/or alcohol along with taking MDMA.

 

 

 

Here's some more info...

 

The UK figures suggest seven ecstasy-related deaths per million users. This compares to 625 alcohol-related deaths per million drinkers. In fact, more people in the UK die from choking on peanuts than from taking ecstasy.

 

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ecstasy/index.htm

 

 

 

I consider MDMA to be risky simply because of the circumstances it's used in.

 

 

 

The majority of people who die from MDMA do so because either their parents find out they've been taking it and make them drink more water than they're meant to (or make them throw up, which isn't good when you're using it either) or because they are complete pillocks. It's another one of those situations where people will blame anything but themselves, and a little education goes a LONG way. I know some people who take E and they're fine because they know what they're doing and enjoy the drug responsibly.

[DaN]

Why are people saying you CANT overdose on cannabis?

 

 

 

Ive seen people smoke themselfs into mindless zombies to the point they cant even talk.

 

 

 

Thats excess consumption and ALL drugs can be taken in excess. At the end of the day a name is just a name regardless of whether you call it an overdose or excess.

[BlueLancer]

Why are people saying you CANT overdose on cannabis?

 

 

 

Ive seen people smoke themselfs into mindless zombies to the point they cant even talk.

 

 

 

Thats excess consumption and ALL drugs can be taken in excess. At the end of the day a name is just a name regardless of whether you call it an overdose or excess.

 

 

 

OD pretty much either means you get seriously hospitalized, or more often, die from it. People don't die from cannabis, it's even used as a medical herb in some countries.

 

 

 

I've seen far more people turn into untalkative zombies under the influence of alcohol, or their speech after too much drinking sounds like gibberish.

 

 

 

You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ rrreal *bleep*ing high on drugs. The Beatles were so *bleep*ing high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.

 

 

 

Haha, that's so true. My parents are very anti-drugs (I don't like them either, but I don't condemn people who use them, especially the lighter ones), yet nearly every piece of CD music they have has been produced by people they know were under heavy influence of heroin, cocaine and other hard drugs. Some of those artists even died of drug OD.

[warri0r45]

Why are people saying you CANT overdose on cannabis?

 

 

 

Ive seen people smoke themselfs into mindless zombies to the point they cant even talk.

 

 

 

Thats excess consumption and ALL drugs can be taken in excess. At the end of the day a name is just a name regardless of whether you call it an overdose or excess.

 

 

 

Basically because overdose usually means chance of death. There's no such chance with cannabis.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_overdose

 

 

 

Of course, all drugs can be taken in excess, but I think people realise that doing so for any drug is bad for you. Hence why some people come in on this topic urging that a moderate use of pot is pretty safe, given you're doing it for the right reasons, with the right attitude and with no medical conditions that it may flare up.

 

 

 

The same really goes for any drug or human vice. If you don't do it for the right reasons, with the right attitude and considering consequences on your body and mental state, you're at a risk of getting adverse effects.

 

 

 

It's interesting that alcohol, a completely legal drug, can kill you, does kill people every year and is often abused with little regard for consequences (to the point where binge drinking is actually socially accepted in a country like Aus), yet non-lethal pot use is considered worse and anyone who breaks the law in smoking it is considered a social pariah. I'd also speculate that not nearly as many families or lives are ruined from pot compared to alcohol.

[Dragontotem]

of course its not bad :lol:

[RichieMcD]

Well first of all anything you smoke is bad for your lungs so yes it is bad.

 

 

 

I smoke it sometimes, Especially during the summer months when the suns out \ . I couldnt care really about it being against the law, in ireland its considered a class 3 drug so if your caught first time you get a 25 euro fine lmao.

 

 

 

It also depends on the situation if i take it or not. Say if its a hot summers day i might have some with my friends in our gardens and just enjoy being high while if i go to a party i would drink instead as i find alcohol a better party drug.

 

 

 

I also dont care for what smoking dos to me at all, i go to the gym 3 times a week and eat healthily so i kind of look after my body. You only have 1 life so enjoy it while you can.

 

 

 

There isnt really enough in depth reports yet to show the full effects of it so you can never be sure of how dangerous it is.

[Evadek]

Why are people saying you CANT overdose on cannabis?

 

 

 

Ive seen people smoke themselfs into mindless zombies to the point they cant even talk.

 

 

 

Thats excess consumption and ALL drugs can be taken in excess. At the end of the day a name is just a name regardless of whether you call it an overdose or excess.

 

 

 

Do you even know what Cannabis does?

[thargor01]

ok, quick question, well debate, I've got some kill and some white widow, which one is better? (and yess this is just a lil test...) ohh and coffee shops ftw!

 

 

 

white widow believe me :wink:

Trust me, I know, I was just hoping some1 else did, besides it's hard to get white widow around where I live, whats the one, it's blueberry sumthing or another? any1 know?

[venomai]

Blueberry yum yums. :P