16 January 2008 - Summoning balancing

[Y2g2003]

I'm glad they listened and pretty much did exactly the right thing... What leaves me a bit uneasy is the horrible attempt to justify the price of shards.

 

 

 

If the price wouldn't be a problem, there wouldn't be a reason to make a change. For them to justify the price, but then make the change anyways really contradicts themselves in a way.

 

 

 

Maybe at high levels you'll break even, but I doubt that and there really wont be much physical proof of that for awhile. And there would be varying results anyways. Fact is, at the low levels, I lost at least 40k... which is probably chump change to what others have lost. So for them to say that you break even is really just an assumption on their parts.

 

 

 

I'll be looking forward to the change. Until then, I'll just stick with my origional plan and make as much GP as I can, until the change happens. Might even wait until Tears is applied to this skill and jump up a few free levels, so that I can maybe do some Granite Crabs.

[Ravenkana]

Omg Jagex actually listened to players for once :shock:

 

 

 

Wow, I actually think you've said that 3 or 4 times lately, maybe I'm mistaken, but nice post none the less.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If people had been intelligent enough to actually use the pouches instead of powerleveling then this wouldn't even have been a problem. Everyone has been saying "It will cost like 500million gp to reach level 99."

 

 

 

You still don't get exp for actually using the pouches (at least, I don't think that you do). The only way to actually gain a non-negligible amount of experience is by making pouches, and that hasn't changed.

 

 

 

This is an improvement, but I personally would have preferred keeping the shard price, but allowing you to get a significant amount of exp (even if only 1 exp per damage point) for the damage that your familiar deals. Meh.

 

 

 

Actually I think you get experience from each scroll special that you do while the creature is summoned. You can train with some of them if you just use them by your side for long enough.

How? The scroll special gives you a FRACTION of an experience point. Experience gained for fighting them has, so far, seemed to equal that of HP exp for a random event. Also, the refresh argument doesn't work very well... Why? What skiller is going to leave his post for 15+ minutes just to refresh his summoning points? And what use have the Granite Crab and Rock Lobster for fisherpersons? Why not just cook up a huge mess of fish/admiral pies?

[wioneo]

Hate and slight irritation gathered in my mind as i read the "shard prices will be halved" part, yet it dissipated once I noticed the "gold and/or shards will be reimbursed part"

 

 

 

Jagex is getting a bit better at preventing riots I see... Also, preventing a whole bunch of cheapos like me from refusing to the level the skill until the discount.

 

 

 

Oh and by the way...

 

 

 

WOOT 1920 practice SAT woot!

 

(If that's actually bad and I didn't know it, don't say anything, and just go away...)

[la la la]

Perhaps Jagex decided to reduce the price long before the skill came out. Think about it-- if we started out with shards at 25 ea, people would still whine about the price. Now, though, Jagex gets to be the kind game company who HALVES their prices to make people happy. Good marketing there, Jagex :-s .

[Veryhyper]

It feels like they just made the change to appease whiners but whatever I'll just go with the flow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOOT 1920 practice SAT woot!

 

(If that's actually bad and I didn't know it, don't say anything, and just go away...)

 

 

 

I got 1930 on the real one on the first attempt, and 1600 or so is the national average.

[Ravenkana]

Perhaps Jagex decided to reduce the price long before the skill came out. Think about it-- if we started out with shards at 25 ea, people would still whine about the price. Now, though, Jagex gets to be the kind game company who HALVES their prices to make people happy. Good marketing there, Jagex :-s .

Hmm... Yeees... Makes since... It seems as though they may want to make players happy after January 3rd... Although this STILL ignores the lack of logic involved in the way this skill is trained...

[stan18]

Hold on a second - i dont get this. How would we profit from pouches? Why buy pouches when you can make your own? Where would the market for pouches be? The only people buying are the people who have the level to summon the familiars, which is the same level anyways, and since it takes so many pouches to level, wouldn't they have the pouches anyways?

 

 

 

 

 

The only market for pouches would probably be with pouches that people dont level up with, and thats usually because those pouches are so difficult/expensive/inefficient to make, in which case the people who need them can also just make them on their own

 

 

 

 

 

Please tell me if im missing something...

[Blizaga57]

Really what they need to do is make it so that you can buy and use any summoning pouch from any level regardless of your level and poof it becomes a good skill to level.

[Star_Fox]

i can suggest a new minigame for charms, exchanging tickets for a reasonable amount. although PC might fit into this. ;|

[magekillr]

sounds exactly the same as when they "fixed whips and mauls" and the more recent "black marks removal":

 

 

 

they're unable to admit they were wrong, they have to blame it on us saying we miscalculated (just like they blamed whips/mauls on a SIX MONTH bug), and explaining how it's "profitable"

 

 

 

not to mention...if it was so profitable to begin with, why the need to HALVE the price of shards...not just reduce...HALVE THEM!

 

 

 

tad bit like an infomercial "oh wait..don't quit yet...there's more...please just wait"

 

 

 

not to mention their logic is totally flawed...looking @ something being profitable in this manner is like saying "smithing is profitable too...just smith your own bolts and then go kill monsters with them"

[Kazuma]

they're unable to admit they were wrong, they have to blame it on us saying we miscalculated

 

 

 

Well obviously we are to stupid and ignorant to push our mouse cursor on start -> run and type "calc" in. Over the vastly superior, all knowing and mighty jagex!

[Ravenkana]

they're unable to admit they were wrong, they have to blame it on us saying we miscalculated

 

 

 

Well obviously we are to stupid and ignorant to push our mouse cursor on start -> run and type "calc" in. Over the vastly superior, all knowing and mighty jagex!

Indeed!!! And the almighty Gods of Supply and Demand as well as Inflation have been successfully staved off due to the benevolence of the mighty Jagex! All bow before it's might!!!

[Nukearcher]

really hard to make profit on pouches when jagex control the prices

[diib]

This means free shards for me, good update, I also love it how they made charms untradeable now people will have to work for their skills instead of just buying them.

 

 

 

What's wrong with buying skills? It's not like their money appeared out of thin air

 

+1

 

Well, to some people, it did. (party hats and such).

 

 

 

 

 

And heed my words, in a few weeks/months, there will be player-made guides on forums like this, pointing out plenty of effective uses of summonning. The complainers just haven't found these uses yet (and neither have I, I hasten to add).

 

 

 

And remember, it appears the point is to use the pouches, not to sell them.

[Xx_Flare_xX]

Finally, to make sure that reducing the cost of shards isn't unfair on early levelling, we will make sure that people who have already purchased shards will automatically either get some gold back, or receive extra shards so they have effectively paid the new price.

 

---

 

does that include those we've payed and used up? cos i brought 100k's worth and used 50ks worth already :P

[Happysniff]

Finally, to make sure that reducing the cost of shards isn't unfair on early levelling, we will make sure that people who have already purchased shards will automatically either get some gold back, or receive extra shards so they have effectively paid the new price.

 

---

 

does that include those we've payed and used up? cos i brought 100k's worth and used 50ks worth already :P

 

 

 

then either you will wake up to find 500 extra shards in your bank, or an extra 25k :

[kemikalkadet]

Hold on a second - i dont get this. How would we profit from pouches? Why buy pouches when you can make your own? Where would the market for pouches be? The only people buying are the people who have the level to summon the familiars, which is the same level anyways, and since it takes so many pouches to level, wouldn't they have the pouches anyways?

 

 

 

 

 

The only market for pouches would probably be with pouches that people dont level up with, and thats usually because those pouches are so difficult/expensive/inefficient to make, in which case the people who need them can also just make them on their own

 

 

 

 

 

Please tell me if im missing something...

 

 

 

Yeah that's the thing i don't understand. I assume that to use a pouch, you need the summoning level to make that pouch? If so, then why on earth would you buy it for way more than the cost of materials and recieve no exp for making the pouch? Surely in a skill where it's so hard o get exp, you want to be doing things that get you the most possible, for the least cost.. co why are jagex expecting us to pay over the odds for it on ge with no exp? :S

 

 

 

1k posts \

[Rosanante1]

 

 

 

/-not to mention...if it was so profitable to begin with, why the need to HALVE the price of shards...not just reduce...HALVE THEM!

 

 

 

tad bit like an infomercial "oh wait..don't quit yet...there's more...please just wait"

 

 

 

not to mention their logic is totally flawed...looking @ something being profitable in this manner is like saying "smithing is profitable too...just smith your own bolts and then go kill monsters with them"

 

 

 

I've read through most of the posts on the general discussion and all of the posts on this thread. I could have quoted two or three people but I choose this one as the most succinct.

 

 

 

1. I cannot believe that Jagex spent months and months perfecting this skill only to half the price of one of its ingredients within the first 24 hours. Surely they saw that one coming.

 

 

 

2. To attempt to justify the change by a nonsensical break-even argument is, well just insulting.

 

 

 

3. Charms!? what's all that about? These items must be the only untradeable monster drops. (Care to contradict?)

 

 

 

Missed opportunity

 

 

 

For some reason Jagex has turned a capitalist economy into a communist one. With this new skill everybody is equal and the theory is that nobody should be able to 'buy' the skill.

 

 

 

Well, excuse me, this is still gonna cost megabucks and with no obvious immediate return on the captial invested.

 

 

 

Here's the rub: why not make charms tradeable? this is how a progressive economy functions. Supply and demand. Those who have invested time and effort to make money can now reap the rewards. It also allows those of us who are looking for profitable returns to sell off our hard gotten gains for a tidy profit if we're smart enough to sniff out where those opportunities lie.

 

 

 

Another option would have been to introduce Life Runes to summon your familiar - too late.

 

 

 

Easy Money

 

 

 

If you ever read the old forum threads it was littered with newbies asking the same question. "how can I make money quickly?" Even in the game people would come up to me and ask how I made enough for a Dragon Chain. Well the simple answer was, there was no easy way, just smart training. In my case herblore. Buy herbs collect seconds sell pots, invest profit back into more herbs etc etc.

 

 

 

TBH the only easy money was RWT but who took that route. Certainly not me!

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

 

 

In summary then, this could have been the opportunity for Jagex to make up for the loss of profitable trade which the other skills once offered. All trade is now dead, all profit is now impossible. Grind out Mith Drags comrade?

[gypsyeater]

i can suggest a new minigame for charms, exchanging tickets for a reasonable amount. although PC might fit into this. ;|

 

does barrows give you charms? As that would be a mini game that produces them.

[teatonev]

Even at lvl 10 you can make a profit from this. First get two gold charms, two spider carcasses and 14 shards (cost=700, soon to be 350). Make 1 spider pouch and ten scrolls. Summon spider, use special ten times. You will now have at least ten red spider eggs (~300 ea). Profit over 2k. I know this sounds kind of nooby, but this is a level 10 ability! See these low levels from the POV of people new to the game who are level 10 in everything.

[Rosanante1]

Even at lvl 10 you can make a profit from this. First get two gold charms, two spider carcasses and 14 shards (cost=700, soon to be 350). Make 1 spider pouch and ten scrolls. Summon spider, use special ten times. You will now have at least ten red spider eggs (~300 ea). Profit over 2k. I know this sounds kind of nooby, but this is a level 10 ability! See these low levels from the POV of people new to the game who are level 10 in everything.

 

 

 

Noted. TY.

[Flobberdude]

Even at lvl 10 you can make a profit from this. First get two gold charms, two spider carcasses and 14 shards (cost=700, soon to be 350). Make 1 spider pouch and ten scrolls. Summon spider, use special ten times. You will now have at least ten red spider eggs (~300 ea). Profit over 2k. I know this sounds kind of nooby, but this is a level 10 ability! See these low levels from the POV of people new to the game who are level 10 in everything.

 

 

 

For higher levels, I think there's a higher profit with beavers, level 33. Two green charms, two willow logs, and about 150 shards (can't access the main website right now, at school), soon to cost 4k total. Get a beaver and ten scrolls, and head to the mage training arena. Unleash your special 5 times, for 15 magic logs. Run to the duel arena bank, and bank the logs. Go back, unleash 5 more times, for 15 more logs. Bank. 30 magic logs * 750 gp each (I imagine the prices will fall as this becomes widespread) = 22500 gp. Profit over 15k. Best part: you don't even need 75 woodcutting.

 

 

 

1) This only works if the special gives you magic logs from magic trees. I think it does, but I'm not sure.

 

2) Sorry for harping on about beavers, but I need to ask about 1 until I'm sure, at which point I'll level my summoning and write a guide.

[Chumley]

Even at lvl 10 you can make a profit from this. First get two gold charms, two spider carcasses and 14 shards (cost=700, soon to be 350). Make 1 spider pouch and ten scrolls. Summon spider, use special ten times. You will now have at least ten red spider eggs (~300 ea). Profit over 2k. I know this sounds kind of nooby, but this is a level 10 ability! See these low levels from the POV of people new to the game who are level 10 in everything.

 

 

 

For higher levels, I think there's a higher profit with beavers, level 33. Two green charms, two willow logs, and about 150 shards (can't access the main website right now, at school), soon to cost 4k total. Get a beaver and ten scrolls, and head to the mage training arena. Unleash your special 5 times, for 15 magic logs. Run to the duel arena bank, and bank the logs. Go back, unleash 5 more times, for 15 more logs. Bank. 30 magic logs * 750 gp each (I imagine the prices will fall as this becomes widespread) = 22500 gp. Profit over 15k. Best part: you don't even need 75 woodcutting.

 

 

 

1) This only works if the special gives you magic logs from magic trees. I think it does, but I'm not sure.

 

2) Sorry for harping on about beavers, but I need to ask about 1 until I'm sure, at which point I'll level my summoning and write a guide.

 

 

 

Don't forget everytime you use the spec it reduces the spec bar, so you won't be able to do that so many times in a row. But I agree with the priciple of your thread, once people start to understand the benefits the familiars bring the skill will seem a lot better.

[Stephleref]

At lv66 too you have the Barker Toad who can be charged with Cannonball just like a Cannon.

[Ravenkana]

Even at lvl 10 you can make a profit from this. First get two gold charms, two spider carcasses and 14 shards (cost=700, soon to be 350). Make 1 spider pouch and ten scrolls. Summon spider, use special ten times. You will now have at least ten red spider eggs (~300 ea). Profit over 2k. I know this sounds kind of nooby, but this is a level 10 ability! See these low levels from the POV of people new to the game who are level 10 in everything.

 

 

 

For higher levels, I think there's a higher profit with beavers, level 33. Two green charms, two willow logs, and about 150 shards (can't access the main website right now, at school), soon to cost 4k total. Get a beaver and ten scrolls, and head to the mage training arena. Unleash your special 5 times, for 15 magic logs. Run to the duel arena bank, and bank the logs. Go back, unleash 5 more times, for 15 more logs. Bank. 30 magic logs * 750 gp each (I imagine the prices will fall as this becomes widespread) = 22500 gp. Profit over 15k. Best part: you don't even need 75 woodcutting.

 

 

 

1) This only works if the special gives you magic logs from magic trees. I think it does, but I'm not sure.

 

2) Sorry for harping on about beavers, but I need to ask about 1 until I'm sure, at which point I'll level my summoning and write a guide.

 

 

 

Don't forget everytime you use the spec it reduces the spec bar, so you won't be able to do that so many times in a row. But I agree with the priciple of your thread, once people start to understand the benefits the familiars bring the skill will seem a lot better.

I think you require the wc level still... But the three fishing based familiars seem pointless... The rock lobster works as a harpoon for sharks only; why not simply buy a wieldable harpoon from another player? The Granite Crab works as a big net... most people only big net fish for seaweed... And the fishing level bonuses are equal to that of a fish or admiral pie.