Pokemon Thread

[Zierro]

Thanks, that's what I needed to hear. I was stuck in a rut of being the world's greatest Pokemon trainer and was hoping someone would be kind enough to free me. Now what exactly needs improvement?

 

PS: Crobat's name is Probat to give you an idea of my skill level.

[Buzzcut3]

Thanks, that's what I needed to hear. I was stuck in a rut of being the world's greatest Pokemon trainer and was hoping someone would be kind enough to free me. Now what exactly needs improvement?

 

PS: Crobat's name is Probat to give you an idea of my skill level.

 

A Poke can have a maximum of 510 EV's (hidden number) overall. A stat can have a max of 255 EV's. 4 EV's gives a stat a +1 at level 100, so doing math, the max EV's you should put in a Poke in any given stat is 252. A standard 252/252/4 with 2 leftover EV's usually suffices.

 

For movesets: you want your Poke to have a purpose. Looking at Torterra, the first two attacks mean it should be a sweeper (fast and hard hitting), but the last 2 suggest it should stall (slow and can take hits).

 

So a better moveset for Torterra would be: 252 attack, 252 speed, 4 HP with a Jolly nature and Wood Hammer, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and Rock Polish or

252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def with an Impish nature and Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, Roar, and another attacking move.

 

Give each Poke a purpose and know what works well competitively. Hone Claws is worse than Dragon Dance, Hail is worse than the ability Snow Warning, Swallow is worse than just about any other move, Fly is worse than Roost, and I've honestly tried making Umbreon not suck and it just isn't possible in standard play.

 

Hope that's somewhat helpful.

[Zierro]

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. Now this is where I was going with them:

 

Gengar is a fantastic sweeper, just as Forretress is a fantastic tank. So fantastic in fact that they are an extremely common choice amongst many trainers. So extremely common in fact that they are expected. The purpose for some of my Pokemon is solely to throw off opponents who prioritize an all-out-offensive approach or tank sapping.

 

As for Torterra, he is bulky, strong, but lacks speed. I accept that Torterra will always go last, since even training those 252 EV's in Speed won't be enough to catch up to the vast majority of Pokemon out there. But his offensive and defensive power are both very well-rounded for a starter. As I stated before, pure sweeps and pure tanks are so common nowadays that the only viable option of succeeding over organized opponents like that is to evolve your strategies for that specific occasion. If I use Leech Seed, my opponent will think Torterra is a tank with no real stopping power. If I use Wood Hammer, my opponent will think Torterra is a sweeper that can't take a hit. Sure, I am opening up another new weakness, but also employing the element of surprise at the same time. And in the Pokeconomy full of anticipated sweeps and tanks, the odds are in my favor. In the last competitive battle I've done (the only rule we abide is that only one legendary is allowed), I used a team of tricksters to take down an IV-hacked Tyrannitar, Gengar, and Rayquaza. The key I learned was not to use the same move sets people are used to seeing 75% of the time because their team is usually prepped up to counter them.

 

Of course you can't have an entire team full of reverse psychologists. Salamence's purpose is a pure physical sweeper. In that case, the speed boost of Dragon Dance compared to the accuracy boost of Hone Claws is a better idea, because I don't see Rock Slide being used as often as his Dragon and Fire moves. Swallow was an "ehh" choice for me, but Drifblim's purpose is to survive long enough to get a lucky Ominous Wind to Baton Pass the hell out of there. He's already pretty durable though, so Swallow might not be necessary. As for Probat (I already trained this one), Fly works great for him. It's strong and it keeps him away from battle for a turn which is helpful for someone with a Poison move. Roost might be a better option than Haze though because Probat can take some hits. As for Umbreon, we'll see about that in a couple weeks. :-D Judging by his stats, he seems to be one of those hit or miss Pokemon like Cloyster.

 

But all in all, this is the exact thing I love about Pokemon. So many strategies that there can never be one universally perfect team out there. Again, thanks for your reply and feel free to give more constructive criticism.

[Zaaps1]

@My previous post, when I said sturdy taunter, I sorta meant something that could take a hit, not necessarily with the ability Sturdy.

 

@Crusty, trying to outsmart your opponent via doing the unorthodox is extremely, read, extremely tricky and generally speaking, it doesn't get you very far. It's true that inventing or using an extremely underused set will catch your opponent by surprise, and yes it could earn you a few games, but in the end, it's really not worth it. I know that using your favorite Pokemon or Pokemon/sets that are simply unconventional is fun and exciting, but if you really want to be competitive, there is very little room to effectively place such tactics.

 

Instead of focusing on reverse-psychology sets to give you an edge, you'll instead want to focus on teambuilding and team synergy. Yes, Gengar is expected in a battle, but that's besides the point. The point isn't how your OPPONENT deals with Gengar, it's how YOU deal with Gengar. How does it help your team? How does your team help it? Does it effectively do its job even though it is a standard?

 

Because of this, you can't just give us a list of Pokemon and say, "how can I make them better?" Truth is, we don't know. We can only judge your Pokemon and help you if you say that your Pokemon are a team. I know you said your 6 aren't really a strict team, but I'm going to analyze it under the assumption that it is, because otherwise, I couldn't give you any advice at all.

 

Reposting:

 

Torterra: Wood Hammer, Stone Edge, Leech Seed, Synthesis (EV: Hp & Att, NAT: Sp.D or Att)

Salamence: Dragon Claw, Rock Slide, Fire Fang, Hone Claws (EV: HP & Def & Spe, NAT: Spe)

Vanilluxe: Ice Beam, Hail, Acid Armor, Mirror Coat (EV: HP & Sp.D & Spe, NAT: Spe)

Drifblim: Stockpile, Swallow, Ominous Wind, Baton Pass (EV: HP & Def & Sp.D, NAT: Sp.D)

Crobat: Fly, Poison Fang, U-Turn, Haze (EV: HP & Att & Spe, NAT: Att)

Umbreon: Work Up, Moonlight, Psychic, Payback (EV: HP & Def & Sp.D, NAT: Def)

 

First thing that hits me is this, you have 2 Pokemon that extremely benefit from Sun, yet you do not have Ninetales on your team. You have 2 options, work Ninetales in and add more sun-abuse, or de-emphasize the sun-reliance. I'll mention this later when relevant.

 

Ok next thing that hits me is no entry-hazards. You can't really get any spikes up, but you can work with Stealth Rock. My advice is to give Stealth Rock to Torterra. Here's my recommended Tort set:

 

Torterra@Leftovers (Lead)

Adamant Nature (+Atk -Spatk)

252atk/252hp/4speed EVs

~Wood Hammer

~Earthquake

~Stealth Rock

~Synthesis/Leech Seed

 

To be frank, Torterra is not the most fantastic tank, nor is it really be best way to get rocks up, but it CAN get rocks up and deal some very useful damage along the way. Grass/Ground gives better coverage than Grass/Rock, and besides Earthquake gets STAB and doesn't have stupid accuracy. The only problem is that you'd have to switch against Flying types, but against most of the popular ones, this makes no difference. You can either work with Wood Hammer (Gyarados), wouldn't be able to really do anything anyway (Skarmory), or would've been outspeed and OHKO'd anyway (Salamence, Thunderus, Zapdos). Most levitaters do not resist grass, and in fact the only real problem one I can think of at the moment is Bronzong, which is rarely seen.

 

The choice between Synthesis and Leech Seed is based on your own perferance, although to be honest I'd go with Leech Seed without second guessing. It's more reliable and gives better team support.

 

Moving to Salamence, you seem to be going towards the FatMence set, but you don't have Roost, which is a big problem. Salamence's defenses aren't great, so you really need Roost if you're trying to make it tank anything at all. You can either throw in Roost over Hone Claws and use Earthquake over Rock Slide (again a coverage thing), or just make it a full-on attacker. I recommend:

 

Salamence@Life Orb

252spd/56atk/200spatk

Naive Nature (+Spd -SpDef)

Intimidate

~Outrage

~Earthquake

~Draco Meteor

~Fire Blast

 

This thing is EXTREMELY easy to use and is very powerful. Yeah it's the standard MixMence set, but honestly it's Salamence's best set unless you want to Dragon Dance (which I'm not really a fan of, given how short of a lifespan Salamence has on the field). Switch in and Draco Meteor something (unless you can score a SE hit with FB or EQ). Look at what happens after. Most likely, a Steel type will switch in (or a revenge killer if you just KO'd something). If it's a steel type, either FB or EQ will KO (in fact against Bug/Steel types, Fire Blast will KO even at -2 special attack). If you fear for your life, switch. If not, Outrage away, you have nothing to worry about. If your opponent had an immediate answer to Salamence, it's either dead or not there, so you should not be afraid to just use Outrage.

 

Ok now I'm moving on to Crobat, which takes the role of a speedy attacker and scout. Very well, it really isn't the best at this job since it is Stealth-Rock weak. Landorus, Scizor and Flygon do it better. I strongly recommend you use Landorus, actually. It's slower, but if scarfed it becomes very fast and it's ability grants it more or less a free Life Orb in sand (which is so popular it's worth taking into account). It also resists Fighting, just like Crobat, and because of stealth rock and better stats it'll probably do a better job at absorbing Fighting attacks. If you do keep Crobat, I'd give it a Choice Band and use Roost over Haze, Cross-Poison over Poison Fang, and Brave Bird over Fly.

 

Landorus@Choice Scarf/Choice Band

252spd/252atk/4hp

Adamant/Jolly nature (Jolly is +spd -Spatk)

~Earthquake

~Stone Edge

~U-Turn

~Hammer Arm

 

Landorus is pretty damn fast already, so you do have the option of using a Choice Band instead of a Scarf. This will let you use brute force to beat more or less anything that doesn't have a 4x resist or immunity to whatever attack you're using, and makes U-Turn hit much harder. Use Adamant nature with Band, but feel free to mix and match. In fact I'd say all the combinations other than Jolly/Scarf are viable. Hammer Arm might seem counter-intuitive given the focus on Landorus' speed, but since you're fighting pretty much hit-and-run, it's better to just throw it in, especially if you are using a Band.

 

Ok Vanniluxe. I see absolutely no point in this guy. Unlike Crobat, who maybe could've been viable, this ice cream cone really isn't. If you want a fast special attacker, I would like to strongly recommend Jolteon. Up until this point I've tried to keep your choice of Pokemon intact as well as overall role of the Pokemon, but at this point some bigger changes may need to be made. (A list of problems Vannila has? Only 1 attack, using Hail, not bulky enough to use Mirror Coat, Acid Armor being pointless. It's trying to be a special attacker that can take a hit, but really it's not going to be taking very many hits, and its sweeping abilities aren't fantastic.)

 

Jolteon@Choice Specs

252spatk/252spd/4hp

Timid Nature

Volt Absorb

~Thunderbolt

~Volt Change

~Hidden Power [ice]

~Baton Pass

 

The idea is extremely simple. Baton Pass the first time you switch in to scout for Ground types. The next time you're in, either predict the switch in and use HP Ice, or use Volt Change if you don't think you'll see that Ground type (it's dead or you are out-predicting your opponent). Once all resists are gone or weakened, Thunderbolt your way to a brute force victory. Thunderbolt Specs Jolteon hits like a TRUCK and very little will be able to truly stop it without taking severe damage.

 

I see absolutely no point in Driftblim either. As a Baton Passer, you only have a 10% chance of doing your job right, even less than that if you factor in the chance that the pass won't be successful. As far as tanking goes, it's not going an amazing job either. As a tank AND baton passer, Gliscor is a better option. For pure baton pass, you have many many options (although frankly speaking nothing in your team will really benefit enough to make a dedicated baton passer worth it). Your team rather lacks a Pokemon that can tank and have staying power, and adding Gliscor gives you a nasty half-your-team-is-4x-weak-to-ice, I find now to be the perfect time to introduce a bulky water into your team.

 

Now you have many choices, Slowbro is a great one and isn't really used a ton. Suicune is very impressive but lacks reliable recovery. Here's one that I think will work in perfectly in your team, Vaporeon. Not only will you be able to tank hits well, you'll also be able to heal yourself AND teammates. Landorus and Salamence would REALLY appreciate that, and Jolteon doesn't mind it all to much either (especially if you manage to switch it in on an electric attack aimed at Vaporeon. Then you heal 75% of your HP in one turn, ignoring entry hazards).

 

Vaporeon@Leftovers

252hp, split the remaining 256 between Special Defense, Defense, and Special Attack. It's largely user preference, I've found. Personally for your team, I'd recommend 252hp/100spdef/152spatk, or something similar, although feel free to try your own stuff out.

Calm nature

Water Absorb

~Surf/Scald

~Wish

~Protect

~Ice Beam/Toxic

 

If you can't get Hidden Power Ice on Jolteon, I recommend you use Ice Beam on Vaporeon and use Shadow Ball instead of HP Ice on Jolteon. This way, when you Baton Pass away from a Ground/Dragon/Grass type, you can go to Vaporeon and either Surf or Ice Beam (depending on your knowledge of the opposing team). Vaporeon should be able to survive most grass attacks anyway.

 

Pretty simple stuff. Use Scald if you think the burn chance will help your team (Vaporeon certainly appreciates it!). If you want healing, use Wish and then Protect on the next turn (or switch on the next turn to the Pokemon you want to heal). Ice Beam will solve your problems with Grass types, whereas Toxic will do the same to Water Types. You can also use Hidden Power Electric instead of Toxic to deal with Water types, but I've found that Toxic is overall the better option. Toxic, however, maybe shouldn't be mixed with Scald, as you might not want to burn something that you should poison instead when entering a stall war with a Pokemon that has a recovery move.

 

Finally we get to Umbreon. I see what you're trying to do with the bulky, yet hard hitting, idea. However any steel type will really counter it, and with the popularity of weather Moonlight really isn't very reliable for recovery. You could put Suicune here, or Tyranitar (who will also help out Landorus' damage output!). Let's take a look at your team so far.

 

Torterra

Salamence

Landorus/Crobat

Jolteon

Vaporeon

 

There really aren't very many immediate weaknesses that I can see. Although something that resists Dragon would be appreciated before a Dragon Dancer sweeps your team with Outrage, so that means you'll want a steel type. The bonus here is that you'd have another resist to Ice, just in case Volteon went down. I'd recommend Skarmory with Whirlwind, but then there's little point for Torterra to exist and I'm not sure you want to rearrange your team THAT much. You definitely want a Steel type, though. Scizor is a solid choice. I suppose you'd better choose the Swords Dance variant, as there's little point for the Choice Banding U-Turner when you got Jolteon and Landorus. Heatran's another option. It can take hits pretty well and synergizes well with your team. I'm not entirely sure what the best steel type heavy-hitting tank would be for this spot, as even something like Bisharp would work atm. Maybe try a few of these out for yourself and see, or better yet maybe someone else here will have a fantastic idea for something to fill this slot.

 

My ideas:

 

Sword Dance Scizor

Bisharp

Scarf/Balloon Heatran

Jirachi

Metagross

Empoleon

Escavlier

Ferrothorn (although no ice-resist, it works very well with Vaporeon)

[Zierro]

@Crusty, trying to outsmart your opponent via doing the unorthodox is extremely, read, extremely tricky and generally speaking, it doesn't get you very far. It's true that inventing or using an extremely underused set will catch your opponent by surprise, and yes it could earn you a few games, but in the end, it's really not worth it. I know that using your favorite Pokemon or Pokemon/sets that are simply unconventional is fun and exciting, but if you really want to be competitive, there is very little room to effectively place such tactics.

 

Well see that's the exact thing. I'm the type of gamer who likes to balance fun with effective strategy. Of course getting a team of Gengars would ensure a higher win ratio, but I'm also looking to do battles that are interesting. I used to be the kind of trainer who found out what the top Pokemon are and then sweep everything with them, but I got bored of that. After the release of Black and White, I saw this as a great opportunity to be more liberal about training methods and mix things up a bit since there are so many Pokemon to choose from.

 

But that being said, after skimming through some of your post, you seem to be very knowledgeable in this field and I'll definitely consider your competitive advice when building my teams up. I'll have to read the rest later on though because I have to go right now.

[Zaaps1]

@Crusty, trying to outsmart your opponent via doing the unorthodox is extremely, read, extremely tricky and generally speaking, it doesn't get you very far. It's true that inventing or using an extremely underused set will catch your opponent by surprise, and yes it could earn you a few games, but in the end, it's really not worth it. I know that using your favorite Pokemon or Pokemon/sets that are simply unconventional is fun and exciting, but if you really want to be competitive, there is very little room to effectively place such tactics.

 

Well see that's the exact thing. I'm the type of gamer who likes to balance fun with effective strategy. Of course getting a team of Gengars would ensure a higher win ratio, but I'm also looking to do battles that are interesting. I used to be the kind of trainer who found out what the top Pokemon are and then sweep everything with them, but I got bored of that. After the release of Black and White, I saw this as a great opportunity to be more liberal about training methods and mix things up a bit since there are so many Pokemon to choose from.

 

But that being said, after skimming through some of your post, you seem to be very knowledgeable in this field and I'll definitely consider your competitive advice when building my teams up. I'll have to read the rest later on though because I have to go right now.

 

Oh I understand completely. Nor am I saying that you should take the best sweepers in the metagame and throw them together (actually, that gets you a very crappy team anyways!). I'm saying that it's ok to experiment and use unconventional sets, as long as you stay true to one core aspect, and that's teambuilding. It just so happens that all the unconventional sets are, well, just that. Unconventional, and that's why they are. Read through my post, you'll get what I mean. It's the simple fact that there's something out there that can do the job better. Unorthodox sets aren't underrated, they just have a tendency to be outclassed. While there's nothing wrong with trying something new, on a competitive level, it becomes a problem when it's holding your team back.

 

So certainly break from the standards and try something new, but you must, must, must, must, must ensure that it will work seamlessly into your team. That's the biggest thing here, and the reason why the standards are so good is because they fit in so well.

[Buzzcut3]

What you CAN do is take either our advice or borrow a team posted here previously and use that for a while to understand how that particular team works/how others will respond to your team. You can learn about problematic Pokemon in the metagame or to your team and adjust accordingly until you feel comfortable with the metagame to the point where you can make a team that's unconventional yet effective. Rain stall (post Manaphy) is about the funnest type of unconventional team I've used in Gen 5.

 

In Gen 4 I told myself not to use anything that was in the top 20 of usage and it was a blast. Lanturn was kicking ass and Sub Punch Dragonite was taking taking names, so I do know what you mean.

[Miner_Guy]

Anyone got ss or hg because i need a houndour, larvitar and magmar.

P.S its a great game i played white then it and it really didnt seem that bad compared to white, the pokeathlon is very good

[Demoli]

Woo, I got a regenarator Tangela from DW.. but it's a male.... and naughty.

 

Dangit.

[Demoli]

So, I finally got a female Tangela from DW and I'm now breeding Tangelas with Leech Seed, and awesomly enough I found out my male cotonnee has 31 Def IV's, so if anyone here want a regenarator Tangela with leech seed and 31 Def IV feel free to ask here.

 

That being said, I'm really looking for a Cacnea/cacturne, does anyone here have one? I need it really badly to get a decent Ferrothorn. That or a stealth rocks Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra for leech seed/SR.

[Alg]

That being said, I'm really looking for a Cacnea/cacturne, does anyone here have one? I need it really badly to get a decent Ferrothorn. That or a stealth rocks Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra for leech seed/SR.

I can give you a male Ferroseed with those moves. I'm working on breeding them and will have quite a few left over :razz:

[Demoli]

Well, I already have a careful ferro with spikes and leech seed, but if you have one with sr I'll gladly trade with you.

[PoorLepRecon]

What are some mixed sweepers in 5th gen? Also, are there any decent mixed walls, like balanced spc def and def?

[Alg]

What are some mixed sweepers in 5th gen? Also, are there any decent mixed walls, like balanced spc def and def?

Hydreigon, Kyurem, and the Kamis are apparently good mixed. Ferro is the only mixed wall that springs to mind

[Demoli]

Carefull max HP max SpD ferrothorn can tank unholy ammounts of pokemon, specially those lacking Fire or fighting attacks. If onlt it had instant recovery isntead of leech seed..

 

Speaking of whom, I already have my carefull ferrothorn with LS and spikes fully trained and evolved. Really tedious to defeat frillish's and stunfisks with only energy ball, leech seed and metal claw as attacks. Hopefully trining a Slowbro or a tangrowth won't be as painfull.

[Orpheus]

What are some mixed sweepers in 5th gen? Also, are there any decent mixed walls, like balanced spc def and def?

Hydreigon, Kyurem, and the Kamis are apparently good mixed. Ferro is the only mixed wall that springs to mind

 

Hydreigon really loves to stay more Special unless you use Work Up. 383 SpA Draco Meteors/Fire Blast is really damn hard to pass up. Never used Kyurem, and the Kamis usually stay pure physical or special, although they can go mixed to good results.

[PoorLepRecon]

What are the Kamis? I can't figure it out...

[Alg]

What are the Kamis? I can't figure it out...

Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus.

[Crazykid1321]

Is there going to be a tournament starting soon? If so, would it be too much if I asked to join? I'm kinda new to this world of competitive pokes.

[PoorLepRecon]

If there's interest in a tournament, I'll consider it. It's just people tend to forget about the tournament after a few rounds and it just slows everything down.

[Furah]

If I can be [bleep]ed to make a team I'll join.

[Zaaps1]

A tournament is a good idea. I say we start one.

 

On the issue of participation, maybe we could add all participants to something like a Skype chat? This way we could get people outside of TIF (like friends or such) to play too if they wanted, and also gives us another way of contacting each other that's less spammy and more personal than this thread or TIF PM.

[Zierro]

Because of this, you can't just give us a list of Pokemon and say, "how can I make them better?" Truth is, we don't know. We can only judge your Pokemon and help you if you say that your Pokemon are a team. I know you said your 6 aren't really a strict team, but I'm going to analyze it under the assumption that it is, because otherwise, I couldn't give you any advice at all.

 

Yeah, I noticed the lack of synergy has been the biggest thing holding me back. My brother and I kinda just trained Pokemon we liked individually and then tried putting them together. That will work better when we have like 50 to choose from, but for now I'll work on building up a team that's meant to be together.

 

One more thing I'd like to add is I'm playing on Black and training everything legit. I don't have access to a lot of the Egg Moves and held items you're referencing, so I understand that my Pokemon will be gimped to a degree, but that's not stopping me from putting out the best team available to me.

 

I looked through your suggestions, saw some of the holes in my strategies, saw some of the things I'd prefer to keep, and basically came to the conclusion that I should use the newly gained Poke-knowledge to start my first actual team up. So I will post again in a few days. :mrgreen:

[Vezon Dash]

Does anyone know a good pokemon to give Evolite to? I have an Evolite Dusclops, Murkrow, and Ponyta (don't hate on dat Ponyta). People use Evolite Chansey, but I personally still think its trash.

[PoorLepRecon]

Eviolite chansey has stronger stats than bliss, just no lefties recovery. I've seen people use eviolite porygon2 and tangela in pokemon online, though my only experience with eviolite has been with dusclops.