No, you're missing the point and if I'm being slightly cynical, I think you're missing it on purpose. It doesn't matter how emotionally mature you are. Stuff happens. People hurt. People close to people who are hurting, also hurt. You can't accept that polyamorous relationships are inherently hurtful, and cover that with 'emotional maturity'.

 

Being emotionally mature is accepting that it does hurt, and responding to it responsibly. It's not blindly refusing to accept that that fact matters.

 

Haha no worries, when I was read your post, I was asking myself, "Yeah, I agree with this, and...? What's he trying to say?" lol. With that said, I apologize in advance if I'm still missing your point :P Reading comprehension isn't my forte.

 

Ok, when it comes to emotional maturity and getting hurt, sometimes getting hurt is inevitable. But there's nothing wrong with getting hurt. It's only wrong when you make stupid decisions based on that pain.

 

I see this as existing on three levels:

Level 1: getting hurt; acting on that hurt and doing stupid things

Level 2: getting hurt; behaving rationally despite current emotional state

Level 3: not getting hurt at all

 

Knowledge and understanding can help you jump from level 1 to level 2, but you can't really jump from level 2 to level 3 until you've had enough personal experience to become "immune" to the emotional pain. In other words, your logical brain might "understand" that there's no logical reason for feeling hurt, however your emotional brain will still make you feel hurt. It isn't until you've demonstrated to your emotional brain time and time again that the pain isn't the end of the world, that it will make the pain go away. But you won't be able to make that demonstration if you're constantly reinforcing pain with more pain by doing stupid things based off the pain. Hope that makes sense, let me know if I need to articulate it better.

 

So let's look at that within the context of my relationships.

 

I consider myself a pretty emotional guy-- sometimes far more emotional than I'd like to be, lol. If I see someone in pain, I'll automatically feel sorry for them. Even if they just did something awful and "deserve" to be in pain; I'll still feel sorry for them. In other words, seeing them in pain puts me in pain. The difference, however, is I'll still treat them the way they "deserve" to be treated in a rational manner. I'll feel sorry for them, but I won't allow my feelings to change my behavior towards them in a way that I/they would later come to regret.

 

There's always a point where a girl's Disney fantasy of me and her getting married and living happily ever after comes crashing down. That's inevitable because I'm not monogamous and never will be. Therefore, she'll get upset when she has this realization. And guess what happens to me? I get upset too because I hate seeing the people I love in anguish. So when this happens, I could simply get exclusive with her to make her feel happy, and therefore make me feel happy too. The problem here is, as I'm sure you all know by now, I don't believe that monogamy can last. Therefore, this would just be a short-lived happiness which gradually stagnates over time.

 

So instead, I just accept the pain and acknowledge that it's irrational and temporary. If the girl chooses to leave me for another guy who will get exclusive with her, she'll get sick of him later on and come back to me. Temporary pain in exchange for happiness down the road in my case. Temporary happiness in exchange for more pain down the road in her case until she returns.

 

As this process occurs more and more with different women who keep returning, and I keep seeing them happier with me overall in the long run, the pain becomes less and less severe because I know I'm doing the right thing: I'm experiencing short-term pain in exchange for long-term happiness.

 

 

Sorry again if that has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. It's not that you couldn't articulate your point clearly, it's just that my reading comprehension skills aren't very good :P

You're an interesting guy, Muggi.

 

Please continue with this debate, it's fascinating!

God, with that thing, AGAIN!

Sorry for my rambling, but I was a "bit" drunk.

And now, [bleep] it.

Edited October 18, 201213 yr by SaqPrets

Don't do 2 that's weird as hell dude

[hide=reminds me of you guys][/hide]

You're an interesting guy, Muggi.

 

Please continue with this debate, it's fascinating!

 

AND HERE WE HAVE IT FOLKS

 

proof that Muggiw's controversial views actually are "attractive" to people on a larger scale than gender.

 

@Saq

Sober up and reread that post bud. While it may seem "cool" there is nothing about your 2nd move that benefits you unless you don't have any interest in the girl

Saq's drunken plan was quite amusing, in my opinion.

I was going to wait for him to sober up and ask him if he still thought his plan was a good idea, but Saq appears to have made that decision already.

Muggi, the cornerstone of your argument is that you don't believe monogamy can last and still bring happiness. Everyone feels this is a shaky argument, I think. You're going to have to go deeper than that if you're going to convince any of us... if that's not true happiness, then what is? How can you claim someone's unhappy when they personally feel happy?

How about we do something different for once. I want you guys to tell me why you think monogamy will make you happy, and what you imagine your monogamous life to look like, what you expect, etc. Also be sure to include WHY you choose monogamy, as opposed to celibacy or polyamory.

Why? The issue is not that either of us choose what we choose. It's whether or not they're being a jerk about their choices, to put it bluntly.

It's an issue of how realistic your intentions are.

It's an issue of how realistic your intentions are.

 

Completely irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make and yet again another needless shot. This is sort of exactly what I've talked about.

 

I give up. This is almost as bad as the "Is there a god" subdiscussion.

I tried.

How about we do something different for once. I want you guys to tell me why you think monogamy will make you happy, and what you imagine your monogamous life to look like, what you expect, etc. Also be sure to include WHY you choose monogamy, as opposed to celibacy or polyamory.

I know, in the past, it has made me happy. And when people have cheated on me, I know that didn't make me happy. As far as personal reflection goes, it's almost as simple as it gets:

 

Situation - I was in a relationship.

Significance - I liked being in a relationship.

Alternative - Would I have liked to be a relationship with another person at that same time, or to have had a third person enter the relationship?

Conclusion - No. The relationship was a unique and healthy connection between me the one person I shared it with, and I'd like to preserve that. I do not feel that could have been attained had someone else entered the relationship. When people have cheated on me, it harmed the emotional connection I had with that person (even if we only adolescents, the principles aren't too dissimilar for comparison).

Reflection - In the future, I want to keep relationships of which I am a part of monogamous.

 

Now, please drop it. I've chosen my way, Kim's chosen hers, you've chosen yours. The methods we've taken are largely irrelevant, not least since you're dealing with a topic where a lot of people seldom act with rational thought which is accountable to a logical model of reasoning.

Now, please drop it. I've chosen my way, Kim's chosen hers, you've chosen yours. The methods we've taken are largely irrelevant, not least since you're dealing with a topic where a lot of people seldom act with rational thought which is accountable to a logical model of reasoning.

 

And now the big question is: do you consider yourself, Kimberly, and all the other posters in this thread to be included in that group of irrational people?

I can only speak for myself. But yeah, I can be irrational. Everyone's irrational on some level.

Damn, come to think of it, I still think it might have a bit of something to it, that plan.

Anyways, met with that girl at a b'day party wednesday evening, but I didn't do anything besides chat with her for a few moments... I was drunk and she was completely sober and tired from a day of practices. Thought it wouldn't be the right thing to do something in this situation.

Thing is, I haven't known her for a long time, maybe a week. I suggested going to the movies for this Friday, but she is broke and couldn't accept me paying for the ticket so that thing turned off. She said she'll invite me over for a movie night if she has a free house, though.

Things are looking hopeful, at least.

I can only speak for myself. But yeah, I can be irrational. Everyone's irrational on some level.

 

Thank you for admitting that. I rest my case.

 

I'm always happy to debate this with you guys, as long as you make rational arguments. But when you resort to name calling; or dismiss my claims on the grounds of me being "full of himself" or "condescending"; or asking me to quit posting because I'm threatening your ego; you can't honestly expect me to take your views seriously.

Its hard to provide rational thoughts on such a subjective matter.

 

As I said before, some people like being a special someone to someone else and vice versa. Others don't. I don't see how polygamy or monogamy is better or worse. :\

Beliefs are subjective, yes. I know why you guys want to get exclusive with someone and live happily ever after. I'm asking you guys to logically defend how you're going to "make it work." Or are you guys just basing your future on emotional whims without any rational planning?

 

I've spent the past year on here explaining how I do it, and I'm extremely happy. Nobody ever talks about how they do it, or plan to do it, and then they get angry at me when I tell them that they can't do it.

Muggi, they kind of have a point. I asked what people thought of cheating and you managed to bring polygamy into the discussion despite the fact that it has nothing to do with it...

I brought it up because cheating wouldn't even be an issue you'd have to worry about in the first place if you didn't insist on being monogamous... and you're faulting me for that?

 

Similarly, if you were enjoying the cheating discussion so much, then why didn't you guys simply ignore my post(s) and carry on?

 

This would be less of an issue if the scope of all relationship-related discussions wasn't limited to a single forum topic, as opposed to an entire forum. Oh well.

Damn, come to think of it, I still think it might have a bit of something to it, that plan.

Anyways, met with that girl at a b'day party wednesday evening, but I didn't do anything besides chat with her for a few moments... I was drunk and she was completely sober and tired from a day of practices. Thought it wouldn't be the right thing to do something in this situation.

Thing is, I haven't known her for a long time, maybe a week. I suggested going to the movies for this Friday, but she is broke and couldn't accept me paying for the ticket so that thing turned off. She said she'll invite me over for a movie night if she has a free house, though.

Things are looking hopeful, at least.

 

For someone who has had a lot of recent drunk interactions/plans, you seem to be doing quite well for yourself. Good on you. :P

Regarding time and place, you must understand that regardless of the circumstances, my beliefs are going to inevitably piss some people off at some point or another, regardless of how gingerly I articulate it, and regardless of when I choose to express it. They can choose to ignore my posts, debate them, or agree with them. But attacking them irrationally or complaining is not a fair option.

 

Similarly, I've never rubbed my views in people's faces with the intent of hurting them or kicking them while they're down. Rather, my posts are usually along the lines of, "What you're doing or thinking of doing or talking about doing makes no sense. Here's why I think it makes no sense and/or here's what I would do and why it makes sense. Please try to convince me as to why your stance makes sense and/or mine doesn't make sense." And depending on how emotionally invested people are in their stances, when I question them, they sometimes react very angrily. You could argue that it's my fault for disturbing the peace, but it takes two to tango.

I don't mean to blame you, just saying I asked you whether you thought it was a dick move, which, as you pointed out, assumes monogamy, you wedged polygamy in there, everyone got distracted and I gave up on the question. You're right though, this is only one thread, neither the "cheating" thread nor the "poly" thread; it doesn't help.