"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[RpgGamer]

d'aww thanks Lang ;)

 

I really want to relapse back into her - as is my pattern, but she isn't exactly the same as my ex. (shit how are we going to decipher which crazy ex I'll be referring to in the future?). Ring, you don't know the history of my relationships, your nativity made me smile a bit. I already blocked her from my feed but haven't deleted her entirely. I think I want to relapse, but it's sounding dumber and dumber as I'm typing that. There really wasn't much spark left between us, and I'm fairly certain her ex entered the picture at some point in the past couple days because she was always on the phone and her facebook status's would suggest so. So yeah, best thing for me to do would go full lock down and cut her out. Put it all behind me.

 

I just have such trouble letting go, especially when I cared so much. (granted all the guys in her life pull that nonesense, so to really set myself apart, a solid cut off would at the very least set me apart from the scuzz bags she's usually around).

 

Perhaps I could take advantage...

 

bah. I don't even want to think about it anymore. I want to focus on school and drinking. Perhaps what I wanted most was a set summer fling, as I'll be done school in 4 weeks. And now she's only going to be hindering that desire.

[TTanT]

So, an update:

 

Remember that girl who I crushed on ages ago? Well I'd pretty much given up on that (I was just focusing on improving my general interpersonal skills), but a while ago a class we had together was cancelled but neither of us got the memo, so that yielded a super-easy excuse for a conversation. Since then we've chatted every time we ran into each other, and I've gotten her name.

 

Of course I also just realized that the semester is ending in like 3 weeks, which means I need to get her phone number pronto if I don't want to completely lose contact over summer break (she's a different major as well, so in a Freshman class of 6000 it's likely I won't run into her by accident again). This probably shouldn't be an issue: She's started several conversations with me and seems to be showing interest (although my ability to accurately detect interest sucks, she at the very least likes talking to me), so asking for her number shouldn't be an issue. Especially if I invite her out for coffee or lunch or something after a class.

 

Unfortunately, while I can handle conversation and such fine, I'm having issues getting over my nervousness to ask her out for coffee or something. It's pretty dumb, I know, but any tips on lowering that stress?

[Kalphite]

So, an update:

 

Remember that girl who I crushed on ages ago? Well I'd pretty much given up on that (I was just focusing on improving my general interpersonal skills), but a while ago a class we had together was cancelled but neither of us got the memo, so that yielded a super-easy excuse for a conversation. Since then we've chatted every time we ran into each other, and I've gotten her name.

 

Of course I also just realized that the semester is ending in like 3 weeks, which means I need to get her phone number pronto if I don't want to completely lose contact over summer break (she's a different major as well, so in a Freshman class of 6000 it's likely I won't run into her by accident again). This probably shouldn't be an issue: She's started several conversations with me and seems to be showing interest (although my ability to accurately detect interest sucks, she at the very least likes talking to me), so asking for her number shouldn't be an issue. Especially if I invite her out for coffee or lunch or something after a class.

 

Unfortunately, while I can handle conversation and such fine, I'm having issues getting over my nervousness to ask her out for coffee or something. It's pretty dumb, I know, but any tips on lowering that stress?

 

Just don't think about it so much. 3 second rule brah. If she likes talking to you like you say, she'll probably say yes; coffee isn't exactly a high commitment thing lol

[Omar]

Ask in a way which diminishes the importance of her presence. I'm going to X, feel free to drop by/let me know if you want to meet, etc. If I understand correctly, the idea is that you won't be too worried if she says no, and it doesn't look like you're pursuing her too hard.

[TTanT]

^Yeah that's why I'm asking her to coffee. I still barely know her so I figure something casual that can hopefully get me her number or something is my best next step (and if that doesn't go disastrously/ she doesn't turn out to be a serial killer then I can move towards asking her out to a more date-y situation).

 

I guess I'll try the three-second rule, which is probably something I should get good at anyways to counter my bad habit of overthinking things.

[Omar]

I wouldn't make this a one-on-one thing. Invite her to an event you're going to with friends, where you know you're going to have a blast regardless, and don't focus all your attention on her.

[Kalphite]

I wouldn't make this a one-on-one thing. Invite her to an event you're going to with friends, where you know you're going to have a blast regardless, and don't focus all your attention on her.

 

Yeah I'd second this actually.

[TTanT]

The issue with that is that I

1: Don't have any events of that sort currently planned. (Like the current fun events on my horizon are a book club [which is very inclusive and would not welcome newcomers], and a sparring tournament that's a six hour drive away.)

2: I've got to act soon because the semester ends soon, and then I might as well kiss my chances goodbye because I won't be seeing her again unless we're already in contact.

 

And I feel like organizing an event just as excuse to see her is putting WAY too much effort into it.

[muggiwhplar]

Just say you're going to go grab coffee on your way home or something then and shes welcome to join if she wants.

[RpgGamer]

I'm going to step in and disagree out right. Chicks dig confidence right? Don't [kitty] foot around her available presence and straight up ask her if she'd like to come with you to get coffee. I'm going out on a limb and assuming she does have some interest in you. if you can talk to her in passing consistently, you shouldn't have a huge issue talking to her about whatever over a cup of coffee or whatever it is you're into (and for the love of god, if you've never gone to a coffee place before don't ask her to join you for a cup of coffee - PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS). Asking a girl to hang out and talk shouldn't be any more difficult than it is asking one of your dude friend's to come hang out. Asking a girl on a real date takes a little more chutzpah, but as I said - with confidence it isn't so hard. Most girls are dying to be asked out in a legitimate manly manner. The coffee cup scenario is your chance to guage how into you she is. If things are looking good (she's smiling, playing with her hair, giving you googly eyes, she's touching you back) than ask her out on a real date. And don't wuss it. "How would you like to see X movie next weekend, we could put all the other couples to shame". Alpha as [bleep].

[muggiwhplar]

I'm going to step in and disagree out right. Chicks dig confidence right? Don't [kitty] foot around her available presence and straight up ask her if she'd like to come with you to get coffee. I'm going out on a limb and assuming she does have some interest in you. if you can talk to her in passing consistently, you shouldn't have a huge issue talking to her about whatever over a cup of coffee or whatever it is you're into (and for the love of god, if you've never gone to a coffee place before don't ask her to join you for a cup of coffee - PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS). Asking a girl to hang out and talk shouldn't be any more difficult than it is asking one of your dude friend's to come hang out. Asking a girl on a real date takes a little more chutzpah, but as I said - with confidence it isn't so hard. Most girls are dying to be asked out in a legitimate manly manner. The coffee cup scenario is your chance to guage how into you she is. If things are looking good (she's smiling, playing with her hair, giving you googly eyes, she's touching you back) than ask her out on a real date. And don't wuss it. "How would you like to see X movie next weekend, we could put all the other couples to shame". Alpha as [bleep].

 

You're touching on a heated topic over in the other big PUA forum. Basically the debate of chasing women vs. not chasing women (letting them chase you). Both have their pros and cons. I do agree with your post, though, minus the movies-as-a-date part :P Being direct and confident ("come get dessert with me.") is just as "alpha" as being aloof and non-needy ("feel free to join me.") They're two sides of the same coin.

 

If you don't drink coffee, just ask her out for dessert or lunch instead. No fancy dinners that you pay for-- this isn't the 1950s. :P

 

 

Here's the debate I was referring to if you're interested: http://www.pua-zone....-vs-Non-Chasers

[RpgGamer]

Some girls hate chasing guys. Others love it. There's very little clue as to which is which, but it's not impossible to pick up on. The girl's I "chase" are usually the one's that hate chasing but find themselves doing it far too often. I come in with my Prince Charming routine and blow their minds. it's not even "game" really, it's just what comes natural. This unfortunately is a magnet to crazy apparently...so be warned.

 

As for the movie as first date material - we've had this debate a dozen times before muggiw. I'd just like to reiterate that it's not always a bad idea. It does depend on the bond between the couple, and what type of people they are. I've used movie as a first date (for girls I want to be in a relationship with) and my stats are good. Hell the last one we ended up fooling around instead of watching the film because Burt Wonderstone wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Before that I went to see 21&over which ended in just a hook up and later heavy sexting. It really depends on the people involved on the date.

[TTanT]

Technically I'll be drinking tea, but "Hey want to get coffee except actually I'll have tea" just doesn't have the same ring to it. Anyways our campus has tons of good coffee places, so I figure I'll ask her between classes.

I have absolutely no worries about once the date starts. Once I've started talking with someone I never have many issues with maintaining a conversation, and she's pretty talkative so there shouldn't be any issues there. Hence why I'm keeping it simple with coffee, because mainly I just want an excuse to talk with her and get her phone number/Facebook/something similar. That way I don't need to rely on catching her (or trying to maneuver myself so that she can easily catch me) after a class because that's a pain and can easily be disrupted.

 

My main issue was simply asking her, but I think I'll be fine now. I've just got to remember that I'm really overthinking things and have a tendency to get over-anxious about initiating things and avoid letting that stop me.

 

Another issue, though:

(I stuck a TL;DR at the end of this because I ended up rambling and talking myself through some things here, so feel free to skip this if you don't feel like bothering with a stream of consciousness.)

What are good ways to help slow yourself down when packing up? I tend to be the kind of person who packs up very efficiently after a class, so even when I slow myself as much as I possibly can (while still trying to seem natural) I tend to be out of the door several minutes before her. Due to this the only times I run into her after class are the days that she's unusually fast or I get detoured by something for the ideal amount of time, neither of which is terribly reliable.

Or should I just walk straight up to her when the class ends and ask her to coffee then? That'd be more difficult to me. (I can do an aloof attitude really easily because I've gotten in the habit of acting aloof to hide nervousness and the like, but acting straight-up confident is difficult when you're not feeling terribly confident.) And yeah working on flat out confident behavior is definitely another thing I need to work on. Maybe I should approach her that way just as an exercise to help me get used to approaching people? I mean if I screw it up at most I'll lose a potential friend/girlfriend which isn't much at a campus of 20000.

 

TL;DR:

Should I take:

• the "confident" approach that I'm fairly inexperienced with (which would of course help me gain experience with it and hopefully get a bit better) by approaching her directly after a class and asking her if she wants to go out for coffee
  

or

• the "aloof" approach (which I'm much better at because I'm naturally aloof when I feel uncomfortable) by attempting to "happen" to leave at about the same time as her (aka packing up slowly), which would put me more in my comfort zone but also be more likely to be screwed by chance (she leaves quickly, or she leaves too slowly for me to "cross paths" with her)
  

Which way I'll actually ask the question (aka RPG's or Muggi's way) will depend on which one flows naturally out of my mouth, though. The more I try to think out spoken lines the more awkward and clunky they get.

[muggiwhplar]

TBH I think the aloof approach would be "incongruent" since you don't seem genuinely aloof (otherwise you wouldn't be asking for help :P). "Acting" aloof (as opposed to just "being" aloof) in order to get something sorta defeats the purpose, doesn't it? :) Stick with the Rpg's approach. :thumbup:

 

With experience, comes confidence. With confidence, comes non-neediness.

 

To make things more complicated and partially contradict what I just said, there's also this, as said by the guy who pioneered the whole non-pursuer thing:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW8gtuTLZI

 

(I think that's the right video >_>)

 

Guys like Saqs especially should check out that vid btw.

[RpgGamer]

I encourage you to play to your strengths. Gain some confidence and make it your strength. Success is the best high in life. Better than drunk, weed, acid, coke and whatever other nonsense I can say first hand haha. You got this. Know that you got this. And you got this. Just OWN it.

[Omar]

I'm going to step in and disagree out right. Chicks dig confidence right? Don't [kitty] foot around her available presence and straight up ask her if she'd like to come with you to get coffee. I'm going out on a limb and assuming she does have some interest in you. if you can talk to her in passing consistently, you shouldn't have a huge issue talking to her about whatever over a cup of coffee or whatever it is you're into (and for the love of god, if you've never gone to a coffee place before don't ask her to join you for a cup of coffee - PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS). Asking a girl to hang out and talk shouldn't be any more difficult than it is asking one of your dude friend's to come hang out. Asking a girl on a real date takes a little more chutzpah, but as I said - with confidence it isn't so hard. Most girls are dying to be asked out in a legitimate manly manner. The coffee cup scenario is your chance to guage how into you she is. If things are looking good (she's smiling, playing with her hair, giving you googly eyes, she's touching you back) than ask her out on a real date. And don't wuss it. "How would you like to see X movie next weekend, we could put all the other couples to shame". Alpha as [bleep].

 

From what I understand, chicks also dig people who are not needy. Acting with the goal of getting a date implies that you care about the end result. You can still show you're confident without being super upfront with her.

 

 

I think it's plausible, maybe even likely, that Brent's method works, but it's self-contradictory. You can't be indifferent and still want sex. Literally, indifferent means neither outcome is better to you. It's deeply unscientific and it needs a good dose of logic, but it works, so that doesn't actually matter that much. So I think to a degree you have to act it out, at least at the beginning; it is about tricking yourself. You have to have the discipline to pretend to care about every cute girl you meet as much as the dudes you meet. You should exude confidence in your interactions with people at, say, a bar (sitting in a corner doesn't do the trick, or it might but it's more complicated). That gives a girl all the signs that you're what she wants (non-needy and confident), which is why she will pursue at that point.

[muggiwhplar]

I think it's plausible, maybe even likely, that Brent's method works, but it's self-contradictory. You can't be indifferent and still want sex. Literally, indifferent means neither outcome is better to you. It's deeply unscientific and it needs a good dose of logic, but it works, so that doesn't actually matter that much. So I think to a degree you have to act it out, at least at the beginning; it is about tricking yourself.

 

Pretty much. But what he's teaching operates within the realm of subjective reality-- where anecdotal evidence and empiricism are king. Which, interestingly, is the direction that science itself is moving towards these days.

 

People reporting their findings w/ Brent's method: http://www.pua-zone....riment-who-s-in

 

Keep in mind that Brent advises not to actually seek sex, though. Because in doing so, it's impossible to be carefree. Instead of caring about the outcome, one should care about the process instead and enjoy it, regardless of how it results.

[RpgGamer]

I'm going to step in and disagree out right. Chicks dig confidence right? Don't [kitty] foot around her available presence and straight up ask her if she'd like to come with you to get coffee. I'm going out on a limb and assuming she does have some interest in you. if you can talk to her in passing consistently, you shouldn't have a huge issue talking to her about whatever over a cup of coffee or whatever it is you're into (and for the love of god, if you've never gone to a coffee place before don't ask her to join you for a cup of coffee - PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS). Asking a girl to hang out and talk shouldn't be any more difficult than it is asking one of your dude friend's to come hang out. Asking a girl on a real date takes a little more chutzpah, but as I said - with confidence it isn't so hard. Most girls are dying to be asked out in a legitimate manly manner. The coffee cup scenario is your chance to guage how into you she is. If things are looking good (she's smiling, playing with her hair, giving you googly eyes, she's touching you back) than ask her out on a real date. And don't wuss it. "How would you like to see X movie next weekend, we could put all the other couples to shame". Alpha as [bleep].

From what I understand, chicks also dig people who are not needy. Acting with the goal of getting a date implies that you care about the end result. You can still show you're confident without being super upfront with her.

 

 

I think it's plausible, maybe even likely, that Brent's method works, but it's self-contradictory. You can't be indifferent and still want sex. Literally, indifferent means neither outcome is better to you. It's deeply unscientific and it needs a good dose of logic, but it works, so that doesn't actually matter that much. So I think to a degree you have to act it out, at least at the beginning; it is about tricking yourself.

 

I'm not sure I followed your commentary.

 

Acting confident -> ask direct -> get date? (given you can fake confidence and girl is interested)

Actual confident -> ask direct -> get date. (given girl has interest)

Acting aloof (actual confident) -> ask indirect -> get date? (girl may be unappeased by falsehood of act)

Acting aloof (faking confident) -> ask indirect -> get date? (same)

 

did I get it right?

[muggiwhplar]

"Being" vs. "acting" doesn't necessarily affect the end-result. It just affects your personal scope of the situation, and therefore your happiness and future "success."

 

Take yourself as an example, Rpg. You could pretend to be non-needy about that one girl and it might get you what you want from her at first, but at the end of the day you'd still be needy (and therefore unhappy) at your core.

[Omar]

If you ask directly, you've made it clear you care. Whether that makes you needy or not, I'm not sure, but you're starting on the wrong foot if it does.

 

Brent's method as I understand it goes like this: act/be aloof, confident, be "the mayor" (basically talk everyone and sort of get them involved in your whirlwind of party), girls will ask you for your number. When they text you to hook up, you say "come to my place for drinks at 8 on Thursday", leave it at that and go for it when she shows up. No dates.

 

I don't know how Brent's method fits in with the polyamory idea. Maybe it doesn't, but it seems pretty clear to me that there's nothing other than sex going. That being said, if I need to discuss the epistemology of economics, I can do that with my friends... I can't think of much I can't do with a really good friend, but can with a girlfriend, other than sexual relationships.

 

@muggi: seems to the only way to get over that neediness is to fake it long enough that you have the chance to gain the experience to make it become true though...

[muggiwhplar]

If you ask directly, you've made it clear you care. Whether that makes you needy or not, I'm not sure, but you're starting on the wrong foot if it does.

 

Brent's method as I understand it goes like this: act/be aloof, confident, be "the mayor" (basically talk everyone and sort of get them involved in your whirlwind of party), girls will ask you for your number. When they text you to hook up, you say "come to my place for drinks at 8 on Thursday", leave it at that and go for it when she shows up.

 

More or less, yeah. I don't think it's necessarily bad to start following his advice because you do care about the end-results, though. Because generally the ends will justify the means, such that as you progress you'll care less and less and become happier overall.

 

Brent also has a tendency to exaggerate on how much girls dislike neediness and pursuing though. With online dating, for example, you pretty much have to be a pursuer until you're banging. Then you can stop pursuing and all that. Brent of course advises against that, though.

 

Like I said, try it out to whichever degree you feel comfortable and see how it works for you. I generally believe that the only two things required for long-term happiness are a well-matured sense of gratitude and carefreeness. Everything else is just icing on the cake which makes those two qualities easier to develop, which then leads to happiness.

[Omar]

Yeah, so that jives with what I wrote when I edited my post. His method for becoming indifferent--yelling in the shower that you're indifferent, amongst other things--makes sense in that light; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Edit] I stopped trying with online dating, because it seemed pretty clear to me that without making it work IRL, the internet wasn't going to help me at all.

[muggiwhplar]

Correct.

 

I've said this before-- I'd highly recommend just listening to ALL of his videos as much as possible whenever you've got time. It'll begin to "internalize" if you watch enough of it. It's an easy way to get happier and better with women really fast. My friends in RL whom I've shared that with have reported similar results. :thumbup:

[Omar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEffig_rHZs

 

This guy has a kind of synthesis between pursuing and not pursuing going on (I haven't read anything other than the OP):

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?2569-quot-Planting-a-seed-quot-in-order-to-get-girls-to-chase-you

[RpgGamer]

I like this Brent fella. Kinda. He's interesting.

 

I made another bad decision and now I'm talking to my original ex about my new ex to compare and contrast notes on the crazy. All is peaceful though, I think we're both finally at a level of sanity where we can be civilized and normal. I just don't ever want to meet her fiance.

 

EDIT:

 

ended up talking to her til 3am. Things got a little uncivil, and I may have told her some things I shouldn't have. So now she's mad at me. Which is good. Because it'll throw her back in the arms of her fiance, which prevents me from relapsing into her. But we were getting along good for a while. She gets me better than most. I told her I made her hate me to help me get over her (truth). So we'll see where that lands me in a few months when she comes up to visit her friends (who happen to be my friends as well).

 

But I've gained some perspective. The bane of my existence and behavior seems to be to make sure I don't relapse back into my ex. I want to experience everything in life and be happy which is all fine and dandy, but it occurred to me that it's all a big distraction from even attempting to figure out how I feel about her. When I was on better terms with my 'latest crazy' it all got brushed to the side and nothing else mattered. She(new) was the experience I wanted. But now she's not. So I'll drink up with my friend's and party and smoke and do more crap that my ex(old) hates that makes me happy. But now I'm beginning to wonder...does it actually make me happy, or does assuring myself I won't relapse back to my ex make me happy? Is it possible it's both?