Gun Control

[zdavenz]

FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE

 

 

 

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

 

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

 

3. Colt: The original point and click interface.

 

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

 

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

 

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

 

7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

 

8. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

 

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

 

10. The United States Constitution ©1791. All Rights Reserved.

 

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

 

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the

 

others.

 

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

 

14. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.

 

15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

 

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

 

17. 911: Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

 

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

 

19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

 

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

 

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

 

 

 

22. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.

 

23. Enforce the gun control laws we ALREADY have; don't make more.

 

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

 

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control

 

__________________

 

If there's nothing worth dying for, there's nothing worth living for.

 

 

 

Anyone Agree?

[mervinator_9]

First things first, Wtf? Debate club is for runescape is it not?

 

 

 

Secondly this just seems to ooze that american patriotic feeling so "Woot" and "USA rocks" seems to be in order,

 

 

 

Finally +1, I fully support anyone who wants to Bear arms or arm bears or anything in between really :thumbsup:

[haggisoflife]

Finally +1, I fully support anyone who wants to Bear arms or arm bears or anything in between really :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Do i have the right to Bear arms? I think they would look really cool plus girls dig claws and fur.

[Lenticular_J]

Now now, don't steal my jokes kiddos.

 

 

 

Arming bears, eh? Interesting.

[Range_This11]

Although I don't mind people owning guns for hunting purposes, there is no reason to have a handgun besides to shoot another human being. I have plenty of friends that hunt (I live in a town of 2,000 people). Hunting is their life. Bow or gun, these kids and their parents love hunting. Not one of them uses a handgun to shoot a deer, turkey, duck, coyote, or pheasant. There isn't a way we could ever make all guns illegal, nor is it a just thing to do. Our country was founded on hunting for your food. Honestly, just play Oregon Trail and you'll understand. But I think this article of the Constitution should be amended to fit more modern needs of our society. You have no reason to carry a gun on you. This was instated almost 250 years ago when there was threat from another country's military, not some street thugs. It needs to be amended.

 

 

 

Own rifles for hunting purposes kept in your own home? Absolutely. Own a handgun and conceal and carry it? Absolutely not.

[jackattack]

^^ 2 million times a year guns are used in self defense.

[dragoonson]

^^ 2 million times a year guns are used in self defense.

 

 

 

Where'd you get that from?

 

 

 

We don't have guns,and our crime rate is relatively low compared to say,you...

 

 

 

By the way,we should stop abbreviating the United States...You [wagon] :roll:

[jackattack]

Some professor at Florida state did a study. And comparing murder rates of countries doesn't really work. It's about areas. Compare Montana to The Manchester. Compare Denmark to Chicago or L.A. In America places with lax gun laws aren't usually that bad. In D.C. the total ban on handguns didn't work out too well.

[issy2]

I know there's quite a bit wrong with this but here goes.

 

 

 

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

 

Yes, correct, if you believe that strength and power are more important things than anything else. For anyone with a remote sense of community spirit or morals that statement is crap. A good citizen is not someone who needs to use force to get what they want. An unarmed man is more likely to be someone who believes in peace... ironically someone who will contribute far more to their society than a criminal.

 

 

 

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

 

Again, in my opinion, wrong. Police sort things out properly, through law, an essential part of democracy. You may want a gun for self defence, but we can basically disregard that as the great majority of gun crime in America is not self defence. America is a diplomatic, democratic country and without the police to hold it together, it would be finished.

 

 

 

3. Colt: The original point and click interface.

 

I don't even know what that means. Explain pl0x?

 

 

 

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

 

I know I have no solid facts or arguments to back this up but its so barbaric and stupid!

 

 

 

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

 

No they would be illegal too ... :?

 

 

 

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

 

An absolutely ridiculous thing to say if you're actually serious! (Which I doubt) If so there is so much wrong with it I barely know where to start! Ok, firstly, crime and misspelt words and totally different things. Crime is, in most cases, morally wrong and has a bad effect on society. Misspelt words, on the other hand, are not morally wrong, do not cause misery, death or robbery, and do not have a particularly bad effect on our society. Yeah, ok, some people are weird about misspelt words, but dont try and retaliate with some stupid argument.

 

Anyway, people are not going to be 'scared' by the potential of misspelling words. People are, however, going to be scared about guns.

 

 

 

7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

 

Well I think this kinda is in my arguments favour? Unless I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

8. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

 

If you're talking about the 'right' to bear arms, that's rubbish.

 

 

 

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

 

I don't get that either, could someone explain?

 

 

 

10. The United States Constitution ©1791. All Rights Reserved.

 

" A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

I'm assuming it's this that you're referring to. Well I'm already doing that

 

 

 

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

 

It's fine to make laws, it's another thing for them to be morally right. I could say "The rights of white and heterosexual people to have priorities over blacks and homosexuals shall not be infringed." So, that argument doesn't really make sense.

 

 

 

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the

 

others.

 

They wont.

 

 

 

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

 

Lol! Thats so stupid. Tomorrow, I'll say, "Yesterday, no-one died in London due to gun and knife crime, so I can safely say there is no problem". As we know that's rubbish. A single day is not enough to come to a judgement on a country's problems.

 

 

 

14. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.

 

Sorry What?

 

 

 

15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

 

I'm sorry but I dont think carrying a killing machine in your pocket makes you a peaceful person.

 

 

 

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

 

Oh, really? Well could you explain why every year over 5000 American children are killed by firearms? Why every two years more Americans are killed due to firearms than the number of American casualties during the Vietnam War? Why firearms cause thirty six million deaths every year? Or why Americans kill 19x more than any of the other 25 richest countries in the world? Yes, of course, clearly Americans are only using guns for self-defence!

 

 

 

17. 911: Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

 

Don't know what that is/how it is related.

 

 

 

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

 

I think again this is in guncontrols favour?

 

 

 

19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

 

No, because as far as I'm concerned only a criminal would carry a gun. Guilty conscience, moving in the wrong circles. If police can ban guns just because it's a gun, the problem is stopped at the source. If guns are legal police aren't going to know who shouldn't own them until it's too late, until they've killed someone or gone on a shooting spree.

 

 

 

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

 

Arson is a far, far less common crime compared to murder, and kills alot less people. Matches are needed for every life - guns are not.

 

 

 

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

 

American citizens are killing each other. If I was an American citizen in this situation, I would want the government to control my country's problems, not encourage them.

 

 

 

22. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.

 

Sorry What?

 

 

 

23. Enforce the gun control laws we ALREADY have; don't make more.

 

Good idea.

 

 

 

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

 

Absolute rubbish. "The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since."

 

 

 

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control

 

That was two hundred years ago...

[ember3579]

True, handguns really are almost exclusively used for anti-human artillery. However, I believe that this doesn't mean they should be outlawed. If I remember correctly, a good majority of the firearms used to commit crime are obtained illegally. Also, as the second point the OP states, a gun in the hand is worth more than a cop on the phone. It takes time in order for a cop to make it to your house. You could be dead by then. Also, handguns are perfect for self defense because they can be kept in almost any place you can think of, and they don't need a whole lot of room to swing around. If you remove the normal person's ability to defend themselves from the criminals, then they gain a new title: cattle. We need to actually enforce our current laws before we implement any new ones.

[jackattack]

^^ And police are not obligated to protect you.

 

 

 

http://crl.nmsu.edu/~eli/rtkba/police.html

[Flodder450]

I have another fact:There are more gun stores in the USA than McDonalds'

 

seriously,why do we need to carry a gun nowadays?

 

To kills former bullys?

 

To kill that guy who took the girl you had a crush on? :?

[jackattack]

To protect yourself maybe?

[issy2]

To protect yourself maybe?

 

 

 

Protect yourself from what? Crime? Gun carriers cause crime. As I said in my first post, every year 5000 American children, and more Americans than American casualties during the Vietnam War are killed by firearms. Americans kill 19 times more than any of the other 25 richest countries in the world. If you want to protect other people, you will not carry a gun.

[jackattack]

No if I want to protect myself I will carry a gun. Murder rates have almost nothing to do with guns. Look at areas that have the toughest gun control in America. Those are the areas where citizens need legal guns the most. Look at the rural areas where there is very little crime. A city where everyone has guns in Montana is 10 times as safe as Chicago where there is a total gun ban.

 

 

 

EDIT: http://www.gunowners.org/sk0702.htm

[issy2]

No if I want to protect myself I will carry a gun. Murder rates have almost nothing to do with guns. Look at areas that have the toughest gun control in America. Those are the areas where citizens need legal guns the most. Look at the rural areas where there is very little crime. A city where everyone has guns in Montana is 10 times as safe as Chicago where there is a total gun ban.

 

 

 

I am really not saying I don't believe you, but do you have a source?

[jackattack]

http://qrc.depaul.edu/djabon/Articles/C ... 030101.htm

 

 

 

Theres the Chicago murder rate. I know Montana is in the bottom six. I'm pretty sure the murder rate is around 3 or so. So Chicago is about 7 times higher even with a total handgun ban.

[Flodder450]

get over it.......

[Giordano]

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

 

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

 

These two are the best ones out of the list. It doesn't matter that the revolution happened 250 years ago, the parties are still present: the power-hungry government and the people. When the government screws the majority over, what do you think the majority should do? Stay and do nothing? Let the government do as it pleases? Any government isn't as trustworthy no matter where, or when you are. Especially when a certian government has the largest military in the world and one of the richest.

 

 

 

Issy, you shouldn't take those statements literatly...think before you post a little.

 

 

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

 

I know I have no solid facts or arguments to back this up but its so barbaric and stupid!

 

Refer to my post up above. Without guns the people won't have a resistance against the country's military.

 

 

 

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

 

No they would be illegal too ... :?

 

He means that people would look onto other things to use, such as knives, bats, and stuff. Between you and me, I perfer to be killed through a quick shot in the heart than being beat to death.

 

 

 

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

 

An absolutely ridiculous thing to say if you're actually serious! (Which I doubt) If so there is so much wrong with it I barely know where to start! Ok, firstly, crime and misspelt words and totally different things. Crime is, in most cases, morally wrong and has a bad effect on society. Misspelt words, on the other hand, are not morally wrong, do not cause misery, death or robbery, and do not have a particularly bad effect on our society. Yeah, ok, some people are weird about misspelt words, but dont try and retaliate with some stupid argument.

 

Anyway, people are not going to be 'scared' by the potential of misspelling words. People are, however, going to be scared about guns.

 

Again, stop thinking literatlly...the reason why people misspell words is because they are not educated. So if we educate the people about guns, there will be less gun crime; just like if we educate the students there will be less misspelt words.

 

 

 

 

 

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

 

It's fine to make laws, it's another thing for them to be morally right. I could say "The rights of white and heterosexual people to have priorities over blacks and homosexuals shall not be infringed." So, that argument doesn't really make sense.

 

Erm...what? There is no such thing as that law in the consitution and thus, it can infringed. We're talking about the consitution that created the country and current politicans trying to change all of that. Not hypotheical law making.

 

 

 

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the

 

others.

 

They wont.

 

Again, how can you know for sure? History proves people in power are mostly power-hungry and money-hungry. The US government is no execption.

 

 

 

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

 

Lol! Thats so stupid. Tomorrow, I'll say, "Yesterday, no-one died in London due to gun and knife crime, so I can safely say there is no problem". As we know that's rubbish. A single day is not enough to come to a judgement on a country's problems.

 

Ratio between Number of gun-related deaths : Number of gun owners. Pretty small number concidering how many people have guns.

 

 

 

 

 

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

 

Oh, really? Well could you explain why every year over 5000 American children are killed by firearms? Why every two years more Americans are killed due to firearms than the number of American casualties during the Vietnam War? Why firearms cause thirty six million deaths every year? Or why Americans kill 19x more than any of the other 25 richest countries in the world? Yes, of course, clearly Americans are only using guns for self-defence!

 

The good citizens are using it in self-defense, not the criminals. It is the police's job to crack down crime, not the government and their degrading of our rights.

 

 

 

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

 

I think again this is in guncontrols favour?

 

You think all gun-owners are serial killers. Lets say I give you a gun. Would you shoot me on the spot? I think not. You wouldn't really use the gun much until someone tried to rob you probably. Not to worry, that's what I'm like too. And I'm not blood thirsty nor anti-gun!

 

 

 

19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

 

No, because as far as I'm concerned only a criminal would carry a gun.

 

Ended in your first sentence. If a criminal robs a store with a gun and the law-obeying shopkeep can't defend back, the criminal is safe and has the money. Hell, the criminal might even kill the poor ol' shopkeep. Died thanks to the government. How typical.

[Range_This11]

No if I want to protect myself I will carry a gun. Murder rates have almost nothing to do with guns. Look at areas that have the toughest gun control in America. Those are the areas where citizens need legal guns the most. Look at the rural areas where there is very little crime. A city where everyone has guns in Montana is 10 times as safe as Chicago where there is a total gun ban.

 

 

Are you really that insecure that you assume that everyone wants to kill you? I really don't understand the incessant need to carry a gun around for "protection". Even in some of the worst neighborhoods I've been in, I've never felt that carrying a gun would have actually helped me. I've stayed in one of Milwaukee's lower end neighborhoods (my cousins live there) and I saw people holding guns on the street outside the house, but I never would have even thought to carry a weapon to "protect myself". These stupid caveman-esque pro-gun control statements are starting to sound like nails on a chalkboard to me. Hand guns serve no purpose but to injure or kill another human being. The perfect reason why they should be completely banned.

[Lionheart_0]

I have never seen a life threatening crime (Someone being robbed, beaten, ect..). I don't own a gun. Why should I carry a gun when there is no actual danger? You are nothing but being paranoid. There is so much murder and other crimes reported in the news, that it feels like you live in a dangerous time. In reality you are much more safe then you think.

[Giordano]

Wait a minute...are you guys talking about taking guns outside? Taking them where ever you go? Because if thats the case, its quite foolish to do so. You're only looking for trouble. Keeping a gun in your house or under your shops' counter is the thing I'm talking about. Most likely that place of wealth is going to be assaulted than yourself outside.

[issy2]

[hide=]

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

 

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

 

These two are the best ones out of the list. It doesn't matter that the revolution happened 250 years ago, the parties are still present: the power-hungry government and the people. When the government screws the majority over, what do you think the majority should do? Stay and do nothing? Let the government do as it pleases? Any government isn't as trustworthy no matter where, or when you are. Especially when a certian government has the largest military in the world and one of the richest.

 

 

 

Issy, you shouldn't take those statements literatly...think before you post a little.

 

 

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

 

I know I have no solid facts or arguments to back this up but its so barbaric and stupid!

 

Refer to my post up above. Without guns the people won't have a resistance against the country's military.

 

 

 

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

 

No they would be illegal too ... :?

 

He means that people would look onto other things to use, such as knives, bats, and stuff. Between you and me, I perfer to be killed through a quick shot in the heart than being beat to death.

 

 

 

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

 

An absolutely ridiculous thing to say if you're actually serious! (Which I doubt) If so there is so much wrong with it I barely know where to start! Ok, firstly, crime and misspelt words and totally different things. Crime is, in most cases, morally wrong and has a bad effect on society. Misspelt words, on the other hand, are not morally wrong, do not cause misery, death or robbery, and do not have a particularly bad effect on our society. Yeah, ok, some people are weird about misspelt words, but dont try and retaliate with some stupid argument.

 

Anyway, people are not going to be 'scared' by the potential of misspelling words. People are, however, going to be scared about guns.

 

Again, stop thinking literatlly...the reason why people misspell words is because they are not educated. So if we educate the people about guns, there will be less gun crime; just like if we educate the students there will be less misspelt words.

 

 

 

 

 

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

 

It's fine to make laws, it's another thing for them to be morally right. I could say "The rights of white and heterosexual people to have priorities over blacks and homosexuals shall not be infringed." So, that argument doesn't really make sense.

 

Erm...what? There is no such thing as that law in the consitution and thus, it can infringed. We're talking about the consitution that created the country and current politicans trying to change all of that. Not hypotheical law making.

 

 

 

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the

 

others.

 

They wont.

 

Again, how can you know for sure? History proves people in power are mostly power-hungry and money-hungry. The US government is no execption.

 

 

 

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

 

Lol! Thats so stupid. Tomorrow, I'll say, "Yesterday, no-one died in London due to gun and knife crime, so I can safely say there is no problem". As we know that's rubbish. A single day is not enough to come to a judgement on a country's problems.

 

Ratio between Number of gun-related deaths : Number of gun owners. Pretty small number concidering how many people have guns.

 

 

 

 

 

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

 

Oh, really? Well could you explain why every year over 5000 American children are killed by firearms? Why every two years more Americans are killed due to firearms than the number of American casualties during the Vietnam War? Why firearms cause thirty six million deaths every year? Or why Americans kill 19x more than any of the other 25 richest countries in the world? Yes, of course, clearly Americans are only using guns for self-defence!

 

The good citizens are using it in self-defense, not the criminals. It is the police's job to crack down crime, not the government and their degrading of our rights.

 

 

 

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

 

I think again this is in guncontrols favour?

 

You think all gun-owners are serial killers. Lets say I give you a gun. Would you shoot me on the spot? I think not. You wouldn't really use the gun much until someone tried to rob you probably. Not to worry, that's what I'm like too. And I'm not blood thirsty nor anti-gun!

 

 

 

19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

 

No, because as far as I'm concerned only a criminal would carry a gun.

 

Ended in your first sentence. If a criminal robs a store with a gun and the law-obeying shopkeep can't defend back, the criminal is safe and has the money. Hell, the criminal might even kill the poor ol' shopkeep. Died thanks to the government. How typical.

[/hide]

 

 

 

For the sake of this argument and the reasons you have put forward - It looks like I'm wrong, but I just don't see the need to carry a gun - it seems at though gun owners are overreacting to the danger. Still, (and I'm sorry for being 'narrow minded') however much you prove me wrong on paper, I'm afraid I'm not going to change my mind on this topic.

 

 

 

Hand guns serve no purpose but to injure or kill another human being. The perfect reason why they should be completely banned.

 

 

 

Well said.

[Lionheart_0]

Wait a minute...are you guys talking about taking guns outside? Taking them where ever you go? Because if thats the case, its quite foolish to do so. You're only looking for trouble. Keeping a gun in your house or under your shops' counter is the thing I'm talking about. Most likely that place of wealth is going to be assaulted than yourself outside.

 

 

 

Even then, having a gun is useless. Why not just have something like a bat or some other melee weapon to use? None lethal, and you can still protect yourself, while having protection if you get close. In most cases you can escape with your life by simply giving a robber what they want. And why wouldn't you? What kind of person would value their possessions so much that they rather attempt to stop the robber and loose their own life rather then living another day and maybe loosing out on some money?

[magekillr]

Wait a minute...are you guys talking about taking guns outside? Taking them where ever you go? Because if thats the case, its quite foolish to do so. You're only looking for trouble. Keeping a gun in your house or under your shops' counter is the thing I'm talking about. Most likely that place of wealth is going to be assaulted than yourself outside.

 

 

 

Even then, having a gun is useless. Why not just have something like a bat or some other melee weapon to use? None lethal, and you can still protect yourself, while having protection if you get close. In most cases you can escape with your life by simply giving a robber what they want. And why wouldn't you? What kind of person would value their possessions so much that they rather attempt to stop the robber and loose their own life rather then living another day and maybe loosing out on some money?

 

 

 

People who allow their possessions to take hold of them. The possession possess them, as it were, rather than the other way around.

 

 

 

There are also ways of being robbed in which you can still feel compassion for your perpetrator, and no one needs to be hurt.

 

 

 

I have been robbed at gun point, both in my house, and in Richmond, Virginia. Maybe I was lucky, but having a gun in either situation would not have helped me. It's not like I could have used the gun even if I owned one, I do not possess the "guts" to shoot another human or take their life. Even if I did, the gun would still have been no use, even if it was on me.