Are 5%/10% Prayers Overlooked?

[999134]

prayer flashing piety is better really :

[Hammertime]

im sure that if you use your calculations you'll see that the 15% prayers drain at 9.99 or 10 points per minute. This being said, the 5% prayer will give the same ammount of stat boosting time as the 15% prayer will while using the same ammount of prayer points. its all preference really, to have the same xp in a shorter time with a faster drain rate, or the same xp over a more stretched out period, without having to check on your prayer as often.

 

 

 

Also, I'm pretty sure jagex made sure not to give any one prayer an advantage over another.

[xpx]

math is messed up, 2 more to your max hit does not mean you train 5% faster.

 

maybe accuracy might affect how fast you train, but not by much at all.

 

 

 

edit: xpx has it figured out before me.

 

 

 

the xp you gain is basically directly proportional to the damage you deal.

 

So if you do 5% more damage you gain approximately 5% more xp.

 

Therefore you gain 5% more xp every hour.

 

 

 

It is safe to assume that:

 

1 - (100 / 105) ~= 5%

 

 

 

So a 5% increase in xp is roughly the same as a 5% increase in speed. Not exactly the same, but you can reasonably assume so.

 

I'm not quite sure what game you are playing, but in a game called "Runescape", which we ought to be talking about, attack/def/str prayers effect the corresponding level directly and maximum damage, frequency of damage dealt to you/by you indirectly.

 

 

 

Where was i thinking a 6-year old could figure this out...

[TheAncient]

math is messed up, 2 more to your max hit does not mean you train 5% faster.

 

maybe accuracy might affect how fast you train, but not by much at all.

 

 

 

edit: xpx has it figured out before me.

 

 

 

the xp you gain is basically directly proportional to the damage you deal.

 

So if you do 5% more damage you gain approximately 5% more xp.

 

Therefore you gain 5% more xp every hour.

 

 

 

It is safe to assume that:

 

1 - (100 / 105) ~= 5%

 

 

 

So a 5% increase in xp is roughly the same as a 5% increase in speed. Not exactly the same, but you can reasonably assume so.

 

I'm not quite sure what game you are playing, but in a game called "Runescape", which we ought to be talking about, attack/def/str prayers effect the corresponding level directly and maximum damage, frequency of damage dealt to you/by you indirectly.

 

 

 

Where was i thinking a 6-year old could figure this out...

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Lol. Use a max hit calculator and see how a 5% strength prayer affects your max hit. I was surprised at this too, but for 5% and 10% prayers it raises your max roughly ~4.5% - 5% and ~9% - 10% respectively. (WITH the assumption you have 99 strength... I'm not sure if this assumption works with lower levels)

[jessy87]

i thought this was well known method ever since dharok's armor was "fixed"

[xpx]

[hide=]

math is messed up, 2 more to your max hit does not mean you train 5% faster.

 

maybe accuracy might affect how fast you train, but not by much at all.

 

 

 

edit: xpx has it figured out before me.

 

 

 

the xp you gain is basically directly proportional to the damage you deal.

 

So if you do 5% more damage you gain approximately 5% more xp.

 

Therefore you gain 5% more xp every hour.

 

 

 

It is safe to assume that:

 

1 - (100 / 105) ~= 5%

 

 

 

So a 5% increase in xp is roughly the same as a 5% increase in speed. Not exactly the same, but you can reasonably assume so.

 

I'm not quite sure what game you are playing, but in a game called "Runescape", which we ought to be talking about, attack/def/str prayers effect the corresponding level directly and maximum damage, frequency of damage dealt to you/by you indirectly.

 

 

 

Where was i thinking a 6-year old could figure this out...

[/hide]

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Lol. Use a max hit calculator and see how a 5% strength prayer affects your max hit. I was surprised at this too, but for 5% and 10% prayers it raises your max roughly ~4.5% - 5% and ~9% - 10% respectively. (WITH the assumption you have 99 strength... I'm not sure if this assumption works with lower levels)

 

You still assume way too much and have nothing to prove those facts. Also if you are right, +10% strength IS +10% max hit IS 10% experience. But then +10% attack should be +10% experience as well which would add up to +21% experience(or even +50% with piety). The maths for these prayers really aren't as simple as you might think they were, and it isn't useful just to assume things. Focusing on only maxed out players really doesn't help either.

[muggiwhplar]

I always use the 10%s for slayer tasks and 5% for everything else - I don't think many people use them

[999134]

I always use the 10%s for slayer tasks and 5% for everything else - I don't think many people use them

 

mm in your guide it says to use the 5% prayer for monkeys but it is more efficient to prayer switch piety even if your horrible at prayer flashing

[totalpwnage]

Prayers really help a lot. I've recently been flashing piety prayer on 90% of my assignments. And sometimes just straight out praying piety too. I get usually 19-20 pray bonus, depending on if I'm using verac's skirt or proselyte legs.

 

 

 

I did 10% prayer all the way to 83 slayer, and I must say -- it was worth it. Though, cannoning every assignment that I could wasn't really worth it in my opinion, lol. And I did the 10% prayer on about 12 prayer bonus, most of the time.

 

 

 

I think its worth it. A lot of people tend to overlook it though.

 

 

 

And calculations on piety increases are hard to do. They vary from monster to monster because some monsters have higher defence than others. In Mithril Dragons versus something like Dust Devils, piety helps a lot more at mithril dragons because normally you will hit a lot of 0s, so the attack bonus helps a lot more there. Dust Devils, the attack bonus doesn't help as much because they're a lot lower defence, so the amount of 0s you hit is not reduced by as much as it would at mithril dragons.

 

 

 

Someone did mention Zarfot's guide on Slayer, and I recommend you look that up on the RS official forums (Search Mega Slayer Guide). It is really helpful.

 

 

 

And the money you use in order to 10% prayer isn't that much still. Thats why 5% is neglected in my opinion.

[warren211]

If you plan on fighting for a long time, 10% seems more point efficient. However, in wars, prayer conservation is the least of your worries. You won't last very long when being ambushed by 5 people, and you'll need all the defence savings you can get. I'm f2p and I always use 15% every time I fight a very strong player or a bunch of players at once. When I was a member I'd use piety. If I was going to fight players one-on-1, like single combat clan wars, then 10% might be more useful. But if the player or group of players is a huge threat, I won't care if I use an extra few prayer per hour. I'm looking for help now.

[Golvellius]

I never use them.

 

If I wanted to pray, I would use the best prayers.

 

I don't see the point in pray in training unless your near an altar (i.e. the new quest's dungeon) or doing some horrific task like metal dragons.

 

If you do it all the time, then all your doing is wasting prayer pots for a few extra damage points.

 

Waste of gp to be honest, and getting gp takes time, so you wouldn't really save any time.

[muggiwhplar]

I always use the 10%s for slayer tasks and 5% for everything else - I don't think many people use them

 

mm in your guide it says to use the 5% prayer for monkeys but it is more efficient to prayer switch piety even if your horrible at prayer flashing

 

 

 

piety is terrible lol

[TheAncient]

[hide=]

math is messed up, 2 more to your max hit does not mean you train 5% faster.

 

maybe accuracy might affect how fast you train, but not by much at all.

 

 

 

edit: xpx has it figured out before me.

 

 

 

the xp you gain is basically directly proportional to the damage you deal.

 

So if you do 5% more damage you gain approximately 5% more xp.

 

Therefore you gain 5% more xp every hour.

 

 

 

It is safe to assume that:

 

1 - (100 / 105) ~= 5%

 

 

 

So a 5% increase in xp is roughly the same as a 5% increase in speed. Not exactly the same, but you can reasonably assume so.

 

I'm not quite sure what game you are playing, but in a game called "Runescape", which we ought to be talking about, attack/def/str prayers effect the corresponding level directly and maximum damage, frequency of damage dealt to you/by you indirectly.

 

 

 

Where was i thinking a 6-year old could figure this out...

[/hide]

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Lol. Use a max hit calculator and see how a 5% strength prayer affects your max hit. I was surprised at this too, but for 5% and 10% prayers it raises your max roughly ~4.5% - 5% and ~9% - 10% respectively. (WITH the assumption you have 99 strength... I'm not sure if this assumption works with lower levels)

 

You still assume way too much and have nothing to prove those facts. Also if you are right, +10% strength IS +10% max hit IS 10% experience. But then +10% attack should be +10% experience as well which would add up to +21% experience(or even +50% with piety). The maths for these prayers really aren't as simple as you might think they were, and it isn't useful just to assume things. Focusing on only maxed out players really doesn't help either.

 

 

 

Proof = Rhq prayer drain rate calc + Rhq max hit calc

 

Why can't I make assumptions...? Otherwise it would be too hard to make any meaningful conclusions.

 

10% attack is not 10% additional damage. If you're slaying or fighting low level monsters youre hitting close to 100% of the time, so 10% accuracy increase does not make a difference.

 

 

 

Even with all of my assumptions just based off of bare intuition one can tell it's far more beneficial to be dealing 5% or 10% more damage than spending 10K or so on a prayer potion

 

 

 

I never use them.

 

If I wanted to pray, I would use the best prayers.

 

I don't see the point in pray in training unless your near an altar (i.e. the new quest's dungeon) or doing some horrific task like metal dragons.

 

If you do it all the time, then all your doing is wasting prayer pots for a few extra damage points.

 

Waste of gp to be honest, and getting gp takes time, so you wouldn't really save any time.

 

Time and gp are essentially interchangeable (see "opportunity cost"); if you can save a lot of time for only a few gp it's well worth it. This is one of those cases. Closing your mind to only a few options makes you inefficient and insistent on extremes.

[BBC3]

[hide=]

math is messed up, 2 more to your max hit does not mean you train 5% faster.

 

maybe accuracy might affect how fast you train, but not by much at all.

 

 

 

edit: xpx has it figured out before me.

 

 

 

the xp you gain is basically directly proportional to the damage you deal.

 

So if you do 5% more damage you gain approximately 5% more xp.

 

Therefore you gain 5% more xp every hour.

 

 

 

It is safe to assume that:

 

1 - (100 / 105) ~= 5%

 

 

 

So a 5% increase in xp is roughly the same as a 5% increase in speed. Not exactly the same, but you can reasonably assume so.

 

I'm not quite sure what game you are playing, but in a game called "Runescape", which we ought to be talking about, attack/def/str prayers effect the corresponding level directly and maximum damage, frequency of damage dealt to you/by you indirectly.

 

 

 

Where was i thinking a 6-year old could figure this out...

[/hide]

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Lol. Use a max hit calculator and see how a 5% strength prayer affects your max hit. I was surprised at this too, but for 5% and 10% prayers it raises your max roughly ~4.5% - 5% and ~9% - 10% respectively. (WITH the assumption you have 99 strength... I'm not sure if this assumption works with lower levels)

 

You still assume way too much and have nothing to prove those facts. Also if you are right, +10% strength IS +10% max hit IS 10% experience. But then +10% attack should be +10% experience as well which would add up to +21% experience(or even +50% with piety). The maths for these prayers really aren't as simple as you might think they were, and it isn't useful just to assume things. Focusing on only maxed out players really doesn't help either.

 

 

 

Proof = Rhq prayer drain rate calc + Rhq max hit calc

 

Why can't I make assumptions...? Otherwise it would be too hard to make any meaningful conclusions.

 

10% attack is not 10% additional damage. If you're slaying or fighting low level monsters youre hitting close to 100% of the time, so 10% accuracy increase does not make a difference.

 

 

 

Even with all of my assumptions just based off of bare intuition one can tell it's far more beneficial to be dealing 5% or 10% more damage than spending 10K or so on a prayer potion

 

 

 

I never use them.

 

If I wanted to pray, I would use the best prayers.

 

I don't see the point in pray in training unless your near an altar (i.e. the new quest's dungeon) or doing some horrific task like metal dragons.

 

If you do it all the time, then all your doing is wasting prayer pots for a few extra damage points.

 

Waste of gp to be honest, and getting gp takes time, so you wouldn't really save any time.

 

Time and gp are essentially interchangeable (see "opportunity cost"); if you can save a lot of time for only a few gp it's well worth it. This is one of those cases. Closing your mind to only a few options makes you inefficient and insistent on extremes.

 

 

 

wow, you can really see who failed maths in school.

 

 

 

xpx is 100% correct get over it, your math is an abomination.

[TheAncient]

 

wow, you can really see who failed maths in school.

 

 

 

xpx is 100% correct get over it, your math is an abomination.

 

 

 

Loving the flaming cause Im in differential equations. Took BC calculus 3 years ago and got a 5 on the AP.. lol.

 

 

 

By the way I believe it's "math" not "

".

[BBC3]

 

wow, you can really see who failed maths in school.

 

 

 

xpx is 100% correct get over it, your math is an abomination.

 

 

 

Loving the flaming cause Im in differential equations. Took BC calculus 3 years ago and got a 5 on the AP.. lol.

 

 

 

By the way I believe it's "math" not "

".

 

 

 

way to be on topic, but youve proved you fail at maths.

[davidium]

don't think you need to know much about differential equations to make sense of the prayers...what anyone will need to do so is common sense not differentiation/integration skills unless you are able to form an equation relating the 2 variables together

 

 

 

accuracy boosting prayers boost how often you hit which will definitely increase the amount of exp you gain since hitting more often = gaining exp more often. Likewise for strength boosting prayer, hitting higher more often = gaining greater amounts of exp more often

 

 

 

however it will be difficult to say if 10% increase in attack/str equals to a 10% increase in exp...take for example someone with level 2 attack compared to another person with level 1 attack...can you say that the guy with level 2 attack is getting twice the amount of exp as the guy with level 1 attack?

 

 

 

just because a player's attack level is double that of another player does not necessarily mean he gets double the amount of exp...this probably applies for the prayers too since these prayers boost your attack and strength but take your BASE attack/strength level to figure out how many points to boost your stats by.

 

 

 

oh by the way, by assuming that 15% boost in attack/strength = 15% boost in exp you are assuming that if you plot the graph between the 2 variables (attack/strength and exp) you will get a linear equation which is probably not the case as explained earlier (using the 2 players with 1 and 2 attack/strength)

 

 

 

one way to test this out is to use the 5%, 10%, 15% as well as piety boost and calculate how much exp you gain in about an hour. then using these statistics you can calculate the linear correlation coefficient...if the figure is close to 1 (which it probably isn't) then you can say that a 15% boost in pray for attack/strength = 15% boost in exp. Although i admit that 4 points are too little for such a test it is the best we can get for prayer boosts and mathematically the result will be valid as long as we do not extrapolate beyond piety boost or below 5%

 

 

 

on topic, any sane person with half a brain should be using up their prayers when training no matter what unless you need it in an emergency later on because it you are wise enough like me, you will make it a point to always recharge your prayer points before/after setting out for each training session. i usually use home tele and recharge at the lumby alter before banking at the lumby bank and setting off for my next slayer task. that way you DON'T waste any money on pray pots while allowing you to gain great exp, drops and save time as well...most of the time i wait until my task is about to end to be sure i won't need anymore prayer points in case of emergencies and then use the 10% prayer as well as piety whenever i spec

[TheAncient]

don't think you need to know much about differential equations to make sense of the prayers...what anyone will need to do so is common sense not differentiation/integration skills unless you are able to form an equation relating the 2 variables together

 

 

 

accuracy boosting prayers boost how often you hit which will definitely increase the amount of exp you gain since hitting more often = gaining exp more often. Likewise for strength boosting prayer, hitting higher more often = gaining greater amounts of exp more often

 

 

 

however it will be difficult to say if 10% increase in attack/str equals to a 10% increase in exp...take for example someone with level 2 attack compared to another person with level 1 attack...can you say that the guy with level 2 attack is getting twice the amount of exp as the guy with level 1 attack?

 

 

 

just because a player's attack level is double that of another player does not necessarily mean he gets double the amount of exp...this probably applies for the prayers too since these prayers boost your attack and strength but take your BASE attack/strength level to figure out how many points to boost your stats by.

 

 

 

oh by the way, by assuming that 15% boost in attack/strength = 15% boost in exp you are assuming that if you plot the graph between the 2 variables (attack/strength and exp) you will get a linear equation which is probably not the case as explained earlier (using the 2 players with 1 and 2 attack/strength)

 

 

 

 

Again, my calculations are with the assumption that you're fighting a low level monster, so you can assume ~100% accuracy (and therefore attack prayers don't really have any purpose; attack is irrelevant in the proposed scenario). Also helpful from assuming 100% accuracy means that a x% increase in average hit yields an x% increase in damage dealt.

 

 

 

Either way, regardless of the calculations (they were just one specific case), let's not lose sight of the main point: 5% and 10% prayers are cheap to use and yield a significant increase in efficiency.

[pulli23]

 

wow, you can really see who failed maths in school.

 

 

 

xpx is 100% correct get over it, your math is an abomination.

 

 

 

Loving the flaming cause Im in differential equations. Took BC calculus 3 years ago and got a 5 on the AP.. lol.

 

 

 

By the way I believe it's "math" not "

".

 

 

 

way to be on topic, but youve proved you fail at maths.

 

 

 

Can you just shut up? - He's almost right!

 

 

 

Attack is a bit difficult to translate towards xp/hour - simply because (at least I) don't know how the attack level scales with defense and the chance to hit..

 

However strength pray is much more easy: if you hit it WILL give 10% hit increase, meaning 10% extra xp. IF YOU HIT.

 

 

 

Now let's asume you hit 50% of the time, the xp gain with a 10% strength prayer would then be:0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%. Similar if you hit 100% of the time the xp gain is 10% (and if you don't hit, you of course don't get an xp increase).

 

So it's actually the weaker the monster the better the strength prayer is. However we forgot to include 1 important thing: max hp/hit. Near the end of killing a monster you can't hit your max anymore: so this needs to be taken into it too! I might give some probability analyse about this too: but it's a bit more difficult and from what I see here you simply don't want to understand it. (So I'm not going to waste my time..)

[TheAncient]

 

 

 

Can you just shut up? - He's almost right!

 

 

 

Attack is a bit difficult to translate towards xp/hour - simply because (at least I) don't know how the attack level scales with defense and the chance to hit..

 

However strength pray is much more easy: if you hit it WILL give 10% hit increase, meaning 10% extra xp. IF YOU HIT.

 

 

 

Now let's asume you hit 50% of the time, the xp gain with a 10% strength prayer would then be:0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%. Similar if you hit 100% of the time the xp gain is 10% (and if you don't hit, you of course don't get an xp increase).

 

So it's actually the weaker the monster the better the strength prayer is. However we forgot to include 1 important thing: max hp/hit. Near the end of killing a monster you can't hit your max anymore: so this needs to be taken into it too! I might give some probability analyse about this too: but it's a bit more difficult and from what I see here you simply don't want to understand it. (So I'm not going to waste my time..)

 

 

 

:wall:

 

 

 

It wasn't me who claimed attack pray gives you more xp... if you scroll through these posts you'll see I've been saying "strength pray" this entire time

 

HP of the monster does make a difference, but I'm not sure if it's very significant or not. Either way I don't see the monster's HP being a deal breaker simply due to the fact that Bandits (with 50 HP) yield one of the highest xp rates in the game (but that's also due to some other factors)

[totalpwnage]

The problem behind all this math and calculations is that there are so many variables that its almost impossible to really write a formula for this. And we also don't know how some of the things work either.

 

 

 

And the reason its gone off topic is because it's gone into a discussion about piety and attack prayers and all. The attack prayer works differently than the strength prayer does. The strength prayer makes you hit higher, and the attack prayer makes you hit less 0s. The problem is how often you hit is affected by the gear and the monster you are fighting and your levels and all. Strength prayers, it seems, just gives a 10% damage increase pretty much.

 

 

 

And it is so much harder to test attack prayers because the hit rate is never constant. When you do a strength prayer, it makes it so that non-zero hits have a 10% higher max hit. The hit rate is not affected by that, because the chance of hitting a 0 is determined by your attack versus your opponents defence. A range of non-zero hits will go from 1-37 to 1-41. The average hit would go from 19 to 21, which is probably a 10% increase (10.53 shown on calculator, rounding to the hundredths), considering we can't see the decimals behind it. But thats assuming a 100% hit rate, or basically that we're never going to hit a 0. But even if you have a 50% chance of hitting a zero, that lowers the averages by half... but its still a 10% difference between the averages. So its still a 10% increase in experience.

 

 

 

However, my averages aren't accurate even assuming 100% hit rate -- using those averages, and assuming you are always hitting with no pauses with whip, thats only 45600 exp per hour with no prayer and 50400 exp per hour with prayer. And I know its more than that with 100% hit rate.

 

 

 

Hit rate is always 0% to 100% (though never exact, unless you talk magic or some monster thats designed in a way to never miss/hit with something), and we can never test it and get an exact answer, as it will vary from person to person, gear to gear, and monster to monster. There are too many variables to figure it out accurately. But its for sure that attack prayers do a LOT more if you're fighting a monster with higher defence than something else.

 

 

 

So its kinda hard to do all these calculations. We can't be sure how they work, but we CAN be sure that they have an effect. We just don't know how much effect it exactly has. We could all be doing it wrong (amidoinitrite?) for all we know. It could be some other system that we haven't thought about that Jagex only knows of.

[siim]

I like to see myself hitting hard and often and especially towards the end of tasks I really don't care about money or prayer points so I just turn piety on and destruction follows.

[linker009]

if you only save about 6 minutes per hour, then you might aswell just keep training for those six minutes and keep all that money for yourself?

[Mungo0]

Hm. I think they are, for me at least, I just melee away with my black mask and sup sets, but I've never considered the 10% Prayers. Hm, this could be useful.

[SwreeTak]

They are for sure overlooked! I know that there're very few people using them. Most times, I forget about them myself tbh. But when I'm in cw (Castle wars) or cw (Clan wars, lol, two cw, needed to explain) I usually try to use them while fighting an enemy who has almost the same level as me or higher.