Help put an end to junk trading

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I'm not gonna lie...this is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen and you guys are way overthinking this.

 

 

 

The solution is very, very simple...make the GE update prices based on OFFERS. Only offers to buy above market price and offers to sell below market price affect it - that way there is no easy manipulation with offering to sell above and buy below. On top of this, they should put in place an auto sell option on the ge that's 10-15% below the market price...

 

 

 

Edit - Discontinued items (possibly some of the extremely rare non-discontinued items too) are an exception when it comes to adjusting the price based on buying offers above market price.

 

With this implementation, item prices would rise artificially, since an item's selling price does not necessarily reflect its activity in the market. The only way to truly guarantee that players want a certain price is to update it based on completed trades, which it already does. The auto-sell would also cause higher class items to fall like rocks - consider the 100M partyhat again; when the GE updates, that price has fallen to a staggering 85M. Let it continue over a week and that item will be worth 32.05M, and the merchants will be pissed royal. I'm sure that the developers have thought about this.

 

 

 

Having a general store or some other specialty shop buy the junk from the GE (and reroute it to the black hole) would be a simpler solution, since even yours can't apply to every single item on the GE (namely the expensive items). The "black hole" ideology would also affect higher priced items, as people would be a little less apprehensive of trading on the GE, and would try to sell their goods there.

[spooferfish]

As much as I would love to stop it, I don't think we can.

 

 

 

I don't do it anyway, I don't have any junk :P

[craggyp]

why is junk trading so bad?

 

 

 

I'll admit, it puts the price of new, rare items out of reach. but whether it is the controlled market of the ge or the uncontrolled market of junk trades, eventually market saturation will drive prices in both markets to be the same.

 

 

 

when dclaws came out, they were the rarest of the rare. mostly because they were new! even d full helms had been out for months. but over the past and coming weeks, the black-market and ge prices will slowly approach each other. people without junk will sell for max on the ge (and get it!) and people with junk will earn a higher profit.

 

 

 

no one wants to be the guy to sell dclaws at 5m when street value is 50m. so people have no incentive to sell on the ge if they have the means to raise the price at no cost to themselves, ie, the junk they keep from leveling. maple longbows unstrung, pouches, scrolls, what-have-you. these things have NO use outside of junk trades. they are worthless rewards for hard work put into increasing a skill. some people see this as justice! finally, the hard work they put into gaining xp can pay off.

 

 

 

the thing about junk is this: if you have to pay for it, it doesn't help. if you could make 5m, or spend 5m to make 10m, there is no difference. buying junk is convoluted and not really worth it. making junk is skill-related and costs money. in the end, the time spent getting junk is either free (because it was honestly earned in search of xp) or costly (any profit is negated by the time it took to obtain the junk, which could have been used to gain xp).

 

 

 

I do not know of any methods to gain junk that result in huge profit, or even small profit with no waste of time. for those of us without junk, we can usually sell our valuable items on the ge for max (if we want to) or even just wait for others to do the same and drive up the price. for those of us with junk, we can meet the demands of those with the money to pay more than the ge demands, and the desire to do so. either way, out valuables can be sold for a profit. however, it is usually the person who devotes the time to create junk that profits in the end, and is that so bad?

[magzar]

why is junk trading so bad?

 

 

 

I'll admit, it puts the price of new, rare items out of reach. but whether it is the controlled market of the ge or the uncontrolled market of junk trades, eventually market saturation will drive prices in both markets to be the same.

 

 

 

when dclaws came out, they were the rarest of the rare. mostly because they were new! even d full helms had been out for months. but over the past and coming weeks, the black-market and ge prices will slowly approach each other. people without junk will sell for max on the ge (and get it!) and people with junk will earn a higher profit.

 

 

 

no one wants to be the guy to sell dclaws at 5m when street value is 50m. so people have no incentive to sell on the ge if they have the means to raise the price at no cost to themselves, ie, the junk they keep from leveling. maple longbows unstrung, pouches, scrolls, what-have-you. these things have NO use outside of junk trades. they are worthless rewards for hard work put into increasing a skill. some people see this as justice! finally, the hard work they put into gaining xp can pay off.

 

 

 

the thing about junk is this: if you have to pay for it, it doesn't help. if you could make 5m, or spend 5m to make 10m, there is no difference. buying junk is convoluted and not really worth it. making junk is skill-related and costs money. in the end, the time spent getting junk is either free (because it was honestly earned in search of xp) or costly (any profit is negated by the time it took to obtain the junk, which could have been used to gain xp).

 

 

 

I do not know of any methods to gain junk that result in huge profit, or even small profit with no waste of time. for those of us without junk, we can usually sell our valuable items on the ge for max (if we want to) or even just wait for others to do the same and drive up the price. for those of us with junk, we can meet the demands of those with the money to pay more than the ge demands, and the desire to do so. either way, out valuables can be sold for a profit. however, it is usually the person who devotes the time to create junk that profits in the end, and is that so bad?

 

 

 

ehh how about using items like fish for junk trades instead? it's something you spend time getting the same way you would unstrung bows or other junk items and actually has a real world use. I see this as being far preferable to junk that no one can use. In the end it comes down to the fact that the you're not increasing profits by selling your junk, you're just selling your junk. So overall it isn't a way to get money for your rares, it's a scam to get rid of your junk.

[Tijger2099]

The point of junk is, that is doesn't exist. People claim it does, but think about what 'junk' really is and how most junk was obtained, and you will find out it doesn't exist. It does not matter whether you sell your item for max price in the ge or for tripple the price to another player with "junk".

 

 

 

The only situation in which that would be beneficial is when you actually BOUGHT that junk on purpose, but that's a major mistake by everyone in the first place, cause it doesn't exist. When you are BUYING junk of someone else, then the junk isn't junk, but you just switched useful monetary money for useless items.

[Madmanpur3]

I'm not gonna lie...this is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen and you guys are way overthinking this.

 

 

 

The solution is very, very simple...make the GE update prices based on OFFERS. Only offers to buy above market price and offers to sell below market price affect it - that way there is no easy manipulation with offering to sell above and buy below. On top of this, they should put in place an auto sell option on the ge that's 10-15% below the market price...

 

 

 

Edit - Discontinued items (possibly some of the extremely rare non-discontinued items too) are an exception when it comes to adjusting the price based on buying offers above market price.

 

With this implementation, item prices would rise artificially, since an item's selling price does not necessarily reflect its activity in the market. The only way to truly guarantee that players want a certain price is to update it based on completed trades, which it already does. The auto-sell would also cause higher class items to fall like rocks - consider the 100M partyhat again; when the GE updates, that price has fallen to a staggering 85M. Let it continue over a week and that item will be worth 32.05M, and the merchants will be pissed royal. I'm sure that the developers have thought about this.

 

 

 

Having a general store or some other specialty shop buy the junk from the GE (and reroute it to the black hole) would be a simpler solution, since even yours can't apply to every single item on the GE (namely the expensive items). The "black hole" ideology would also affect higher priced items, as people would be a little less apprehensive of trading on the GE, and would try to sell their goods there.

 

Item prices would not rise artificially since they would eventually reach a price where players are both willing to sell and buy at - aka correct price. With the current situation, adjusting based off of completed transactions...that's exactly the reason many items get stuck.

 

 

 

The auto-sell would only cause higher class items to fall like rocks if they are way over priced as it is...which would be solving a problem, not creating one. If players let the price of a partyhat drop to 32m, that means they don't value it at more than 32m.

[Madmanpur3]

Oh, and I should also point out that with the current situation...junk trading is a perfectly reasonable thing. People who junk trade aren't scammers or manipulators, nor are they idiots for thinking they're getting more by junk trading than by just ge trading (which is why i think this thread is ridiculous).

[craggyp]

you could totally use cooked fish (or raw fish) as junk, no problem...

 

 

 

except those are items that are in demand anyhow, and would sell regardless. the point of junk is that no one will buy it. it's essentially useless, and yet with the ge and the trade restrictions, they have value.

 

 

 

it's not a scam, the people that buy your rare understand that they're getting useless items along with the one thing they want most. what this is doing is essentially turning useless items with real-world value into currency. they're a substitute for cash. and they depreciate in value as the value of rares comes closer to the stated value on the ge. people can use items that the ge claims have value, but no one will buy. is that so bad?

 

 

 

people without junk are gonna sell rares on the ge just to get immediate cash. as supply increases, demand drops, and so the price offered (in junk) will drop. eventually there will be no need to trade for certain items in junk. but until that happens, no one wants to take the profit loss incurred by selling an item at less than the value assigned to it by the free market.

 

 

 

if a man can sell an item at 5m, or sell it at 10m by using items with no value to him, but assigned value by the market, he will invariably choose to sell the item for the greatest profit. if junk had some value to the seller, it would never be used. if junk had no value to the market, it would never be used. however, things are not that way.

 

 

 

junk has monetary value, but no one will buy it for actual cash. however, the market declares that it is worth something. most people obtain junk through honest means. their work yields results that no one will buy, but has value nonetheless thanks to the ge. I cannot blame people for trying to use their effort to obtain greater profits, especially if the buyer is willing to purchase useless items in order to gain what they desire.

 

 

 

the buyers in these cases are not being swindled, they know full well that they are paying extra for stuff they cant use. I see no problem in junk trades...

[bedman]

I'm not gonna lie...this is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen and you guys are way overthinking this.

 

 

 

The solution is very, very simple...make the GE update prices based on OFFERS. Only offers to buy above market price and offers to sell below market price affect it - that way there is no easy manipulation with offering to sell above and buy below. On top of this, they should put in place an auto sell option on the ge that's 10-15% below the market price...

 

 

 

Edit - Discontinued items (possibly some of the extremely rare non-discontinued items too) are an exception when it comes to adjusting the price based on buying offers above market price.

 

With this implementation, item prices would rise artificially, since an item's selling price does not necessarily reflect its activity in the market. The only way to truly guarantee that players want a certain price is to update it based on completed trades, which it already does. The auto-sell would also cause higher class items to fall like rocks - consider the 100M partyhat again; when the GE updates, that price has fallen to a staggering 85M. Let it continue over a week and that item will be worth 32.05M, and the merchants will be pissed royal. I'm sure that the developers have thought about this.

 

 

 

Having a general store or some other specialty shop buy the junk from the GE (and reroute it to the black hole) would be a simpler solution, since even yours can't apply to every single item on the GE (namely the expensive items). The "black hole" ideology would also affect higher priced items, as people would be a little less apprehensive of trading on the GE, and would try to sell their goods there.

 

Item prices would not rise artificially since they would eventually reach a price where players are both willing to sell and buy at - aka correct price. With the current situation, adjusting based off of completed transactions...that's exactly the reason many items get stuck.

 

 

 

The auto-sell would only cause higher class items to fall like rocks if they are way over priced as it is...which would be solving a problem, not creating one. If players let the price of a partyhat drop to 32m, that means they don't value it at more than 32m.

 

 

 

This guy is 100% right (especially the last part. How idiotic to think auto sell would cause it to drop under its value. If it drops that low, that's what it's worth. Even if it does temporarily drop under it's "real" value (like what happens to a lot of medium priced items that crash) they will go up again).

[acenator]

ehh how about using items like fish for junk trades instead? it's something you spend time getting the same way you would unstrung bows or other junk items and actually has a real world use. I see this as being far preferable to junk that no one can use. In the end it comes down to the fact that the you're not increasing profits by selling your junk, you're just selling your junk. So overall it isn't a way to get money for your rares, it's a scam to get rid of your junk.

 

By definition, usefull items aren't junk. However, useless items that won't sell because of artificially inflated prices are. Also, the fact that those prices are inflated means that people, when they use said items as junk, are getting more than said items are worth (which is also known as profiting).

 

 

 

As for this argument over using uncompleted trades, how many times must I suggest that uncompleted trades be used ONLY when completed ones FAIL to update prices? Of course just adding in the use of uncompleted trades on every item all the time would lead to price manipulation. However, when there are no completed trades at the current price, chances are the price manipulators won't be able to overpower what the honest players' offers say and, even if they do, what do they stand to gain? The fact that items with artificially high prices aren't selling now means that prices pushed up artificially by merchants wouldn't sell either (unless they're being bought by more merchants, in which case those people are stupid to think they'll ever be able to resell the items for a gain).

[Obtaurian]

I do not feel inclined to fix something that I did not break.

[jessy87]

just remove player to player trading entirely. I would be entirely fine with that. make the GE the only way to trade and we would not have to deal with junk.

 

 

 

so many bounty hunter trades would be attempted, im sure the average person who considered the fact that BH trading exists would jump on an opportunity like that.

[RSBDavid]

What will probably happen is a bunch of people will complain about junk trading, jagex will stop trading for 1 year, and bring it back where you can only trade in certain worlds with a monthly gain/loss limit.

 

 

 

I don't support junk trading, but I am not against it either. I get more annoyed by the people who complain about it.

[BBC3]

im guessing this guy wanted dragon claws?

[Wisp]

rune javs alch for profit

 

 

 

 

 

and before you say junk trading isn't a scam, let me re-iterate; you are still selling the rare for g.e. price, you just force other players to buy your useless junk too

 

it's the equivalent of going to a restaurant, ordering a salad, and being told you also have to buy the bowl, silverware, napkin, table cloth, your chair, the table, and 50 bendy straws otherwise you can go elsewhere

 

this practice would NEVER fly in the real world and any business who tried it would quickly go out of business

 

 

No, it's the equivalent of going to a restaurant, them cooking you a dish worth 30$, but there's a law that makes it illegal to pay more than 15$ for a meal, and so to make it legal, they also throw in the table, bowl, etc. to make it worth 15$ more

[doomy]

Why can't Jagex just change the GE prices.. I mean if their true worth is with the junk..

[Tim]

 

a casual runescape player will never be able to afford third age, even though it isn't even good armor, and is nowhere near as rare as it used to be

 

 

 

what?

 

 

 

 

 

someone who plays runescape casually, just for fun, not to be rich will never be able to afford third age

 

even though it's easily surpassed by cheaper, better armor

 

and there is really no telling how many sets exist now

 

 

 

you didn't see what i made bolt,that's what im talking about.

 

 

 

3rd age is GOOD armour.

 

Yeah but torags is just as better, 1 million times less and higher bonus.

 

 

 

although I hate junk trading (as its screwed me over alot) theres not much we can do. Players who are filthy rich, skill alot or just have crap lying around in their banks will always junk trade. :|

[Zaaps1]

Or just let players decide the price of a new item, then average out all the prices after 2 weeks to create the GE price?

[walka92]

why is junk trading so bad?

 

 

 

I'll admit, it puts the price of new, rare items out of reach. but whether it is the controlled market of the ge or the uncontrolled market of junk trades, eventually market saturation will drive prices in both markets to be the same.

 

 

 

when dclaws came out, they were the rarest of the rare. mostly because they were new! even d full helms had been out for months. but over the past and coming weeks, the black-market and ge prices will slowly approach each other. people without junk will sell for max on the ge (and get it!) and people with junk will earn a higher profit.

 

 

 

no one wants to be the guy to sell dclaws at 5m when street value is 50m. so people have no incentive to sell on the ge if they have the means to raise the price at no cost to themselves, ie, the junk they keep from leveling. maple longbows unstrung, pouches, scrolls, what-have-you. these things have NO use outside of junk trades. they are worthless rewards for hard work put into increasing a skill. some people see this as justice! finally, the hard work they put into gaining xp can pay off.

 

 

 

the thing about junk is this: if you have to pay for it, it doesn't help. if you could make 5m, or spend 5m to make 10m, there is no difference. buying junk is convoluted and not really worth it. making junk is skill-related and costs money. in the end, the time spent getting junk is either free (because it was honestly earned in search of xp) or costly (any profit is negated by the time it took to obtain the junk, which could have been used to gain xp).

 

 

 

I do not know of any methods to gain junk that result in huge profit, or even small profit with no waste of time. for those of us without junk, we can usually sell our valuable items on the ge for max (if we want to) or even just wait for others to do the same and drive up the price. for those of us with junk, we can meet the demands of those with the money to pay more than the ge demands, and the desire to do so. either way, out valuables can be sold for a profit. however, it is usually the person who devotes the time to create junk that profits in the end, and is that so bad?

 

 

 

ehh how about using items like fish for junk trades instead? it's something you spend time getting the same way you would unstrung bows or other junk items and actually has a real world use. I see this as being far preferable to junk that no one can use. In the end it comes down to the fact that the you're not increasing profits by selling your junk, you're just selling your junk. So overall it isn't a way to get money for your rares, it's a scam to get rid of your junk.

its not a scam to get rid of your jun,. the only people who think that are the ones hwo dont understand junking. its simply to make the useless items you get from drops, skills and such, have a use. such items are unsellable because noeone will use them, so they use them to make a good item sellable for its real price. yes, the person buying gets the junk aswell and can then use the junk they got to sell the item again later

 

 

 

i have a scenario for you.

 

you do a treasure trail and get a 3rd age robe top. people are willing to pay alot more for it than you can sell it for on the ge. it just happens that you have been to zam. godwars alot recently and have gotten hilts etc and made money, but you also got alot of addy arrows p++, and maple bows (u) you cant get rid of. jst enough, infact, that if you added them to the mage top, its the same value as people are willing to pay.

 

now, OP, i ask you. are you REALLY gonna leave all that junk in your bank and sell the top for ge price, and lose alot of money? or sell the top with junk and make millions?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

its not a scam to get rid of your jun,. the only people who think that are the ones hwo dont understand junking. its simply to make the useless items you get from drops, skills and such, have a use. such items are unsellable because noeone will use them, so they use them to make a good item sellable for its real price. yes, the person buying gets the junk aswell and can then use the junk they got to sell the item again later

 

 

 

i have a scenario for you.

 

you do a treasure trail and get a 3rd age robe top. people are willing to pay alot more for it than you can sell it for on the ge. it just happens that you have been to zam. godwars alot recently and have gotten hilts etc and made money, but you also got alot of addy arrows p++, and maple bows (u) you cant get rid of. jst enough, infact, that if you added them to the mage top, its the same value as people are willing to pay.

 

now, OP, i ask you. are you REALLY gonna leave all that junk in your bank and sell the top for ge price, and lose alot of money? or sell the top with junk and make millions?

 

 

 

Let's flip the script. Let's say, a month and a half ago, you were interested in a Dragon Platebody. You know its value, and you know its potential value, and a quick check of the GE reveals that it's trading at 14m. You bring that much to a trader, and he offers the plate and some 6M worth of absolute junk that you know you'll never use in your life. Is that fair? Or is this just a false sense of freedom in this market?

[walka92]

its not a scam to get rid of your jun,. the only people who think that are the ones hwo dont understand junking. its simply to make the useless items you get from drops, skills and such, have a use. such items are unsellable because noeone will use them, so they use them to make a good item sellable for its real price. yes, the person buying gets the junk aswell and can then use the junk they got to sell the item again later

 

 

 

i have a scenario for you.

 

you do a treasure trail and get a 3rd age robe top. people are willing to pay alot more for it than you can sell it for on the ge. it just happens that you have been to zam. godwars alot recently and have gotten hilts etc and made money, but you also got alot of addy arrows p++, and maple bows (u) you cant get rid of. jst enough, infact, that if you added them to the mage top, its the same value as people are willing to pay.

 

now, OP, i ask you. are you REALLY gonna leave all that junk in your bank and sell the top for ge price, and lose alot of money? or sell the top with junk and make millions?

 

 

 

Let's flip the script. Let's say, a month and a half ago, you were interested in a Dragon Platebody. You know its value, and you know its potential value, and a quick check of the GE reveals that it's trading at 14m. You bring that much to a trader, and he offers the plate and some 6M worth of absolute junk that you know you'll never use in your life. Is that fair? Or is this just a false sense of freedom in this market?

he can charge as much as he wants; if i dont like his price i simply wont pay it. or i buy the plate and use the junk the same way every one does, to boost trade. but instead of selling thing, i use the junk to lend my claws [which i got as a drop] for maybe a day, 100k an hour [2.4m] while doing other things. i dont use my claws much so its no detriment to me to use them to unload some junk and get the money its valued at. realistically, doing no work except lending my claws, i get the dragon plate for the supposed 14m.

 

 

 

even though i would never buy a dragon plate, and people dont junk them anyway. [not that ive seen, atleast]

[Madmanpur3]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

[Madmanpur3]

oops meant to edit previous post, not quote.

[walka92]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer.

 

that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more

[Madmanpur3]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer.

 

that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.