Help put an end to junk trading

[walka92]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer.

 

that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.

 

fair enough

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

And now, part B to the story.

 

 

 

Let's say that you had tried the GE for about ten hours prior to this, and absolutely no one was selling the plate at max value. You notice on the forums that the only place people are selling it are on world 2, and you also have to buy their junk. If you really wanted the plate, then you really didn't have a say in whether or not you were getting someone else's unwanted rubbish.

 

 

 

Charge as much as he wants? Yeah, that's fundamentally true, but if they don't charge the right price, then they won't get the trade.

 

 

 

Oh, and I have no desire in getting a rare for cheap. I think that discontinued items should be expensive. I just don't like the idea of using rubbish to get there. It doesn't mean that you can charge as much as you like for an item, it simply means that you're fixing a "broken" system with even more problems.

 

 

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.

 

 

 

1) How is our logic flawed if we're against junk trading?

 

2) A lot of people thought that bots weren't ruining the game in any way, too (dropping resource prices, etc), and that turned out to be wrong.

[walka92]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

And now, part B to the story.

 

 

 

Let's say that you had tried the GE for about ten hours prior to this, and absolutely no one was selling the plate at max value. You notice on the forums that the only place people are selling it are on world 2, and you also have to buy their junk. If you really wanted the plate, then you really didn't have a say in whether or not you were getting someone else's unwanted rubbish.

 

 

 

Charge as much as he wants? Yeah, that's fundamentally true, but if they don't charge the right price, then they won't get the trade.

 

 

 

Oh, and I have no desire in getting a rare for cheap. I think that discontinued items should be expensive. I just don't like the idea of using rubbish to get there. It doesn't mean that you can charge as much as you like for an item, it simply means that you're fixing a "broken" system with even more problems.

 

 

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.

 

 

 

1) How is our logic flawed if we're against junk trading?

 

2) A lot of people thought that bots weren't ruining the game in any way, too (dropping resource prices, etc), and that turned out to be wrong.

 

your logic is flawed because junk trading is helping to allow free trade [to a degree] which is a good thing. and bots ere ruining the game because they were swarming resources and making it impossible for skillers to get the items they wanted at a good speed

 

 

 

and as for part b of the story. if i couldnt get the plate, id take the roundabout way. buy the dragon lump/shard/slice off ge, which are almost alwayts there because no1 wants to make d-plates coz they are so bad, buy the pieces and make a plate via assist system.

 

if you wish to make an argument for this, use an item without so many loopholes :P or you cant hope to win. dragon plate is just a plain bad example

[Soma2035]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

And now, part B to the story.

 

 

 

Let's say that you had tried the GE for about ten hours prior to this, and absolutely no one was selling the plate at max value. You notice on the forums that the only place people are selling it are on world 2, and you also have to buy their junk. If you really wanted the plate, then you really didn't have a say in whether or not you were getting someone else's unwanted rubbish.

 

 

 

Charge as much as he wants? Yeah, that's fundamentally true, but if they don't charge the right price, then they won't get the trade.

 

 

 

Oh, and I have no desire in getting a rare for cheap. I think that discontinued items should be expensive. I just don't like the idea of using rubbish to get there. It doesn't mean that you can charge as much as you like for an item, it simply means that you're fixing a "broken" system with even more problems.

 

 

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.

 

 

 

1) How is our logic flawed if we're against junk trading?

 

2) A lot of people thought that bots weren't ruining the game in any way, too (dropping resource prices, etc), and that turned out to be wrong.

 

 

 

Let me offer you a choice,

 

 

 

A. Get your own Dragon Platebody.

 

B. Live without it.

 

 

 

The equivalent situation to yours is going into Falador W2 and asking to buy an Abyssal Whip for 500K pre-trade limitations.

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of junk-trading myself, but it doesn't change the fact that the prices are WRONG. The current prices do not reflect the value of an item. If the prices are being set by a higher authority, then unless players are coerced to sell, or the higher authorities are selling the items themselves, then you can not expect to be able to buy / sell an item at the set price.

 

 

 

If you won't pay the current, REAL price (a reasonable choice, seeing as it is circumventing limitations you support), then don't gripe about it after. But above all, understand that it is not a junk trader's fault for wanting to be able to trade goods at the proper prices.

[Silver_Corner]

It almost seems like people are under the impression that in junk trades, the player ending up with the junk has no say in it...which as we all know is completely silly. Both parties involved in junk trades know exactly what's going on and fully accept that. As such, there is absolutely no reason that anyone should be against junk trading.

 

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer.

 

that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more

 

I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way.

 

 

 

The OP is trying to say the G.E. system is broken because in order for it to work properly, people need to be using G.E. And as long as people are "junk" trading the G.E. wont ever work properly.

 

 

 

Its not just about prices being wrong, its about the fact prices CANT change, which is indeed a byproduct of junk trading.

 

 

 

Now "junk trading" alone isn't "bad" like you said, but as long as it exists, prices will be wrong in the G.E, which is bad. The point the OP is trying to make is that if Jagex fixes a way to remove junk trading, either by making the junk useful or introducing a way to usefully liquidate the junk out of the game AND making more price adjustment mechanics to the G.E. to make it change more often, then it would remove alot of the junk in the game and make prices adjust correctly on G.E. They cant do 1 or the other, they have to do both.

 

 

 

Its not just about removing "junk" in trades, its about setting G.E. to the right prices and making it function correctly in the future. That leads to easier trades and more correct prices.

 

 

 

I don't want your party hat for a cheap price like you said, I want it to be the correct price on G.E. where the player demand says it should be. And the only way to do that is to make it so people will be willing to use the G.E. to make it change. And the only way to do that is to make it so junk trades are no longer needed. Once G.E. is fixed, junk wont exist. Its about fixing G.E. prices to work properly.

[magzar]

ok to address multiple posts:

 

No I do not want dragon claws. If i happen to come across a pair that's fine, but i don't pvp so i really don't need them.

 

Next the scam is in the fact that you can't buy rares without having to buy people's junk, so whether you want to or not, if you really want that rare you're forced to buy the junk.

 

Yes i would put third age in the g.e. and be happy with the price it gave me. I'm not looking to be super rich, just to make a living. And i wouldn't pick up maple (u) or addy arrows if i knew i couldn't sell them.

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right, but because i believe Junk trading prevents it from working the way it is intended to.

 

As for the person who said something about the overpriced junk making you a profit, how is it a profit? you didn't spend the correct price to get it, you likely bought it for that overpriced amount, and sell it to someone else with a rare for that exact same overpriced amount. It doesn't matter if you think it should cost less, the trading system lists it at what it is, and therefore you're doomed to pay it either way. People are allowing the Rare market in the G.E. to remain stagnant while using a system that does not function as people seem to think it does.

 

 

 

let's compare it to fish

 

 

 

i'm going to make this up completely so bear with me

 

 

 

maple chicken-foot bow (u) has a street value of 200gp and a G.E. price of 300gp

 

you amass 10m worth of them and add them to junk thinking "yay 3.3m profit"

 

Wrong!

 

you gathered 10m worth and sold it for 10m

 

the items value in your bank matches the price you get for it, so although you have now converted it to coins you have not made a profit (unless of course you somehow bought that junk for the 6.6m street price which is impossible due to trade limits)

 

 

 

now, a polka-dotted sturgeon has a g.e. and street price of 600

 

you get 10m worth of them and you sell them for a flat 10m

 

you still haven't made a profit you just exchanged for coins, even though these fish aren't junk it still follows the same concept.

 

 

 

Unless you buy your junk for a very low price in small increments (say 500 every 15 minutes at the absolute minimum with max quest points or something similar) you will be unable to make a profit on them due to the fact that the trade limit still applies limiting the maximum difference every 15 minutes to around 60k. if you bought all your junk together in a player to player trade at the bare minimum and sell it all with a rare at the absolute maximum, then congratulations you've made a profit of 120k. now take the same rare and assume it's worth 10m g.e. price, say you bought it at minimum that would be 9.5m, and then sold it at maximum being 10.5m (assuming no change of price between buying and selling) congratulations you have just made a 1m profit as opposed to 120k

 

 

 

now please tell me why anyone would rather junk for a 120k profit when they can use the g.e. for a 1m profit?

[canu44]

if you havent noticed JAgex has been trying to kill junk trading

 

 

 

LOOK at GE Prices

 

 

 

All the pvp items have dropped 5% today and dragon claws itself rose 15%

[magzar]

if you havent noticed JAgex has been trying to kill junk trading

 

 

 

LOOK at GE Prices

 

 

 

All the pvp items have dropped 5% today and dragon claws itself rose 15%

 

 

 

It's because people are doing tormented demons a lot with coinshare on, there are tons of max offers in and every one that get's cs'd and tossed into the g.e. is getting sold for max price raising its value. Exactly how the G.E. is supposed to work

 

it actually works really well for rare items that are monster drops from monsters that can be killed using coinshare

[walka92]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

[Foxtrot17]

As long as Greed exists; stuff like this will still happen.

[walka92]

As long as Greed exists; stuff like this will still happen.

 

its not so much of greed, as people not wanting to get cheated out of getting full pay for a good item. if/when jagex fixes the prices on ge for all these items they will [90% likely] be traded on ge once again.

[magzar]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i underlined

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 1m every 4 hours in 40 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

40 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

 

 

 

 

also before trade restrictions i would have sold it for whatever i could get, but that would have been pure profit

 

 

 

Edit: if anyone can successfully, and through logic prove me wrong economically i will drop this topic altogether

 

 

 

edited for math [developmentally delayed]ation

[walka92]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i bolded

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things

 

anyway

 

 

 

your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them

 

 

 

and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep]nig [bleep]ing stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour.

 

or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash

 

 

 

but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

[Erk02]

[hide=]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i underlined

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

 

 

 

 

also before trade restrictions i would have sold it for whatever i could get, but that would have been pure profit

 

 

 

Edit: if anyone can successfully, and through logic prove me wrong economically i will drop this topic altogether

Your examples suck, sorry. The point of junk is that you get it through trades made in the past. No-one selling an item tries to get tons of junk so that they sell their items for higher prices. The sellers already have junk because they're merchants, and they buy junk with items. Also, your method of making 10m profit every 76 hours is incredibly impossible. As you said, super rare items don't sell at max (or mind every hour. Try putting an offer at max for Dragon Claws in 2 minutes after the GE updates. You won't have a pair of Claws without some serious luck. And of course, since you bought it for max, you're not making any money if you sell it to people.

[magzar]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i bolded

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things

 

anyway

 

 

 

your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them

 

 

 

and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour.

 

or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash

 

 

 

but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

 

 

 

walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth

 

selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk

 

you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value

 

in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading

 

 

 

and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly

 

 

 

the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit

 

 

 

take an economics course

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

 

 

I don't think it is.

 

 

 

The GE only updates prices on items that are traded within it. Rares, 3A and junk are just not traded in the GE, hence the price will never update. This is because that players feel that they can get a better value if they traded their rare and 3A with junk instead, thus compounding the problem. Briante is right when (s)he says that junk trades wreck this even further. If the price can't be updated, then the prices will remain wrong, and people will still use junk trades, further compounding the problem.

 

 

 

It's not that we don't understand that the GE is off on the high end items. It's just that you don't understand what else it's affecting.

[jettrider]

QFC: 74-75-999-58210249

 

 

 

Wait for Jagex to fix it the right way.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

QFC: 74-75-999-58210249

 

 

 

Wait for Jagex to fix it the right way.

 

The prices in that thread are so off horribly wrong that it's embarrassing to even mention it. 640M for a Godsword? Reducing the price of Dragon Claws to 2M? You kidding me?

[walka92]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i bolded

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things

 

anyway

 

 

 

your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them

 

 

 

and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour.

 

or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash

 

 

 

but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

 

 

 

walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth

 

selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk

 

you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value

 

in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading

 

 

 

and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly

 

 

 

the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit

 

 

 

take an economics course

 

except the gaining of junk in the first place, isnt a profit? i would have thought gaining something= profit.

 

and if you are fully aware the situation would never run smoothly,THEN WHY DO IT. it is simply stupid

 

 

 

if you get a dragon claw drops [still using this example because 1, i did get one, and 2, this is our main example], and already have 30m in junk from say, fletching or monster drops, and automatically sell the claws+junk for 40m, you pretty much already made 40m because the junk has no real value but the claws do.

 

junk has no value, hence the title junk.

 

 

 

IN AN IDEAL WORLD there would be no need for junk because the ge would be at the right price. you can either accept that, or shut the hell up about it, let people junk trade and simply stay to items you can afford and dont require junk, or try to get them all as drops yourself. people have a right to charge what ever they want for their own items, because its their. why do you even care about whether those people use some junk left over from activities to get a good price for the item they worked hard for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

[magzar]

[hide=]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i underlined

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

 

 

 

 

also before trade restrictions i would have sold it for whatever i could get, but that would have been pure profit

 

 

 

Edit: if anyone can successfully, and through logic prove me wrong economically i will drop this topic altogether

Your examples suck, sorry. The point of junk is that you get it through trades made in the past. No-one selling an item tries to get tons of junk so that they sell their items for higher prices. The sellers already have junk because they're merchants, and they buy junk with items. Also, your method of making 10m profit every 76 hours is incredibly impossible. As you said, super rare items don't sell at max (or mind every hour. Try putting an offer at max for Dragon Claws in 2 minutes after the GE updates. You won't have a pair of Claws without some serious luck. And of course, since you bought it for max, you're not making any money if you sell it to people.

 

 

 

*facepalm* erk with the exception of items that alch for more than their ge value it is impossible to make a "NET GAIN" of more than 60k in a player to player trade

 

 

 

trading junk for it's equivalent value in gold = "0 NET GAIN"!!!!! or in layman's terms 0 profit

 

you only profit if the money you get is higher than the net value of what you sell thereby increasing your net worth

 

 

 

here

 

 

 

you have a pile of broken shovels

 

they're worth $5 in scrap metal each and you have 100 of them

 

you also have a lump of pure silver worth $50 on the market but you believe it should be worth $100

 

you sell them together for $550

 

profit = $0

 

 

 

you have a lump of silver worth $50

 

you sell it at 5% inflation ($2.50)

 

which comes out to $52.50

 

profit = $2.50

 

 

 

no matter how far off the G.E. is you still make more profit using it than ever would be possible by junking

 

seriously go to an economics teacher and talk to them about this

 

they'll tell you exactly what i am

[magzar]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i bolded

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things

 

anyway

 

 

 

your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them

 

 

 

and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour.

 

or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash

 

 

 

but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

 

 

 

walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth

 

selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk

 

you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value

 

in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading

 

 

 

and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly

 

 

 

the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit

 

 

 

take an economics course

 

except the gaining of junk in the first place, isnt a profit? i would have thought gaining something= profit.

 

and if you are fully aware the situation would never run smoothly,THEN WHY DO IT. it is simply stupid

 

 

 

if you get a dragon claw drops [still using this example because 1, i did get one, and 2, this is our main example], and already have 30m in junk from say, fletching or monster drops, and automatically sell the claws+junk for 40m, you pretty much already made 40m because the junk has no real value but the claws do.

 

junk has no value, hence the title junk.

 

 

 

IN AN IDEAL WORLD there would be no need for junk because the ge would be at the right price. you can either accept that, or shut the hell up about it, let people junk trade and simply stay to items you can afford and dont require junk, or try to get them all as drops yourself. people have a right to charge what ever they want for their own items, because its their. why do you even care about whether those people use some junk left over from activities to get a good price for the item they worked hard for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

 

 

 

 

 

yes walka the inital picking up of the junk is profit, you hit that on the head, however the practice of trading it in for coins isn't profit it's like trading in pennies for dollar bills, you're getting something more useful, but you're not making a profit

 

so are you going to pick up every penny you see so that you can sell your xbox for $1000 along with $800 worth of pennies?

 

 

 

and it would run smoothly if people used the GE merchants do it constantly with items that are traded on the GE

 

 

 

and wrong the junk is still worth 30m just because something is useless doesn't mean it has no value

 

 

 

there is NO NEED FOR JUNK!!!! period

 

it does not make a profit in any sense

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

@mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

 

 

 

That's true. But adjusting prices is only half the battle. Consider if the items that are considered "junk" could be converted to gold, and the player sought to buy a rare on the GE. That trade becomes possible, and the item starts to move.

 

 

 

The way I see it, adjusting prices is honestly like fighting fire with a cup of coffee. Not so bad for a small hotspot; horrible if you've got a forest fire.

[magzar]

@mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

 

 

 

That's true. But adjusting prices is only half the battle. Consider if the items that are considered "junk" could be converted to gold, and the player sought to buy a rare on the GE. That trade becomes possible, and the item starts to move.

 

 

 

The way I see it, adjusting prices is honestly like fighting fire with a cup of coffee. Not so bad for a small hotspot; horrible if you've got a forest fire.

 

 

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

even with prices far below street price the g.e, has the potential for profit

 

i really wish jagex would bring in an economist to explain this to the players

 

 

 

picking up and amassing junk = profit due to increase in total net worth

 

selling it with a rare for its median price = no profit due to neutral turnover rate

 

 

 

the moral of this story is don't take economics advice from 13 year olds on runescape

 

 

 

real world value =/= monetary value

 

and monetary value is what matters when trading

[canu44]

how come every pvp item has dropped? the chart shows every item to drop about 5%

 

 

 

no one buys pvp items and all the pvp items together is around 60mil, , i have a feeling tommrow that more pvp items will drop

[walka92]

[hide=]

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity.

 

you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough.

 

my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2

 

 

 

 

 

The reason i'm against it isn't because i believe the G.E. is right

 

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW.

 

 

 

 

 

as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money

 

 

 

the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant

 

 

 

if you really want the rare you're forced to buy the junk

yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking.

 

 

 

let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

 

 

 

 

 

walka please read the word i bolded

 

i said i don't believe the G.E. is right

 

 

 

and onward

 

 

 

profit

 

Definition

 

The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss.

 

 

 

selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit

 

for instance

 

say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each

 

your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money

 

in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each

 

you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them

 

thereby gaining you a profit of $2500

 

due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit

 

 

 

now back to the example from earlier

 

 

 

say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it

 

you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k

 

you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit

 

say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth

 

 

 

76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better?

 

on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things

 

anyway

 

 

 

your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them

 

 

 

and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour.

 

or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash

 

 

 

but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

 

 

 

walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth

 

selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk

 

you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value

 

in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading

 

 

 

and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly

 

 

 

the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit

 

 

 

take an economics course

 

except the gaining of junk in the first place, isnt a profit? i would have thought gaining something= profit.

 

and if you are fully aware the situation would never run smoothly,THEN WHY DO IT. it is simply stupid

 

 

 

if you get a dragon claw drops [still using this example because 1, i did get one, and 2, this is our main example], and already have 30m in junk from say, fletching or monster drops, and automatically sell the claws+junk for 40m, you pretty much already made 40m because the junk has no real value but the claws do.

 

junk has no value, hence the title junk.

 

 

 

IN AN IDEAL WORLD there would be no need for junk because the ge would be at the right price. you can either accept that, or shut the hell up about it, let people junk trade and simply stay to items you can afford and dont require junk, or try to get them all as drops yourself. people have a right to charge what ever they want for their own items, because its their. why do you even care about whether those people use some junk left over from activities to get a good price for the item they worked hard for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

 

 

 

 

 

yes walka the inital picking up of the junk is profit, you hit that on the head, however the practice of trading it in for coins isn't profit it's like trading in pennies for dollar bills, you're getting something more useful, but you're not making a profit

 

so are you going to pick up every penny you see so that you can sell your xbox for $1000 along with $800 worth of pennies?

 

 

 

and it would run smoothly if people used the GE merchants do it constantly with items that are traded on the GE

 

 

 

and wrong the junk is still worth 30m just because something is useless doesn't mean it has no value

 

 

 

there is NO NEED FOR JUNK!!!! period

 

it does not make a profit in any sense

[/hide]

 

your analagy of penies for dollar bills is flawed; they are both a part of the same currency system and pennies can be changed for dollars at banks pretty damn easily. the xbox example is also a failure. it may be less stupid if the real world had the same trading limits as runescape, and the pennies for that example were something else such as other old toys. in runescape, people dont use coins as junk, which is what your example was doing.

 

 

 

yes. merchants do use the ge for items vtraded on the ge. but once again, you failed becaues junk affects the items people wont trade on ge, not the ones they will.

 

 

 

junk is worth nothing. the ge thinks otherwise, but it somply had a price set in for items noone uses, while peole have no demand for it. everyone knows that prices change due to supply and demand

 

 

 

junk: there may be supply,. but no demand.without demand it has basically no value. the only demand is as junk. except due to its nature, the item itself has no demand. people wont sell something based on what is junk, unless the person with junk was stupid enough to add a very sellable item for junk [example, whips].

 

 

 

 

 

there is a need for junk in the sence that it prevents you from making a huge loss of potential money. i am using my above explanation in this.

 

i have dragon claws. 11m on ge or so. 40-50m on street. if i sold on ge i get 11m. if i wait a few weeks i might be able to sell them for 30m. another few weeks and i may get 40 or 50

 

but if i sell now and get 11m, i lose upro 39m of potential.

 

 

 

and if i chose to sell them for 50m with junk

 

junk items generally have no use. they have no demand for what they can do, so they have no value.

 

i can sell the claws ge and get 11m and amd stuck with my junk i can drop but then i have lost money by losing my junk, but not having the 50m i could have had

 

or i can use junk to sell them for 50m straight away, get rid of junk i otherwise couldnt use, have sold my claws and have 50m to play around with

 

 

 

 

 

if you do not understand this then your iq is lower than the room temperature here. we use celcius and the air con is on, if you catch my drift

 

 

 

you arguments are invalid and foolish. better luck next time