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Holiday Musings and a permanent solution to rares


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#1
Jard_Y_Dooku
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'Ello, here's a little thing I'd like to discuss. It's about Holidays. Since the beginning of time RuneScape, holidays have been a special event in RuneScape. You got items, and more recently, music and events.



Years ago, before the music update, you couldn't get music back. Due to Jagex's reconsideration of the situation, they realized that players should be able to get the music back, and did so. Now, no matter when a player joins, he has the same opportunity as everyone else, to get a full bank of songs, and hopefully display that achievement in the future with a Music Cape of Achievement.



My memory's a bit old, and I don't remember if there was ever a point where we couldn't get old emotes if we didn't attend the original events, but I do know that the problem was remedied very quickly. Now, no matter when a player joins, he has the same opportunity as everyone else, to get all the emotes and have fun dancing around, turning into a chicken, or melting if he does the necessary event... in ANY year.



But there's one thing left. The items. Why can't everyone get these? Why can't Joe Newb ever get a scythe? He just turned 13, and thus was of age to start playing RuneScape. It's not his fault that he didn't join 8 years ago. It's like blaming someone for being a particular race. He or she can't choose it, and should be given the same opportunity as a person from another race. With items, the situation is a bit more complex. There are untradeable items which can be remedied easily, but there are also rare, tradeable items which are a bit more complex to handle the transition. However, I've come up with a mostly foolproof way to solve it. This method WILL upset some people, but you know what? I'm going to make this VERY clear. DO NOT reply to this topic unless you've read the following sentence.



THE WILDERNESS WAS REMOVED. THAT UPSET A LOT OF PEOPLE BUT THEY DID IT ANYWAYS FOR THE GREATER GOOD. AND WE GOT OVER IT.



Type "nachalo" at the top of your post to assure me you've actually read it. And please don't reply unless you have a GOOD argument against my idea. Now, here it is.



[*:165asekc]Give every player access to the holiday items from all past events whenever they play a holiday event (e.g. you play a Christmas 2009 event, you get all the music, emotes and items from all previous Christmases). Diango can offer all the previous items the same way as he does the newer ones.



[*:165asekc]Give every player that owns partyhat(s) or other tradeable rares an amount of coins equal to the current market value of the items and delete the items. This ensures the economy will remain in relatively the same state due to the fact no money is put into the economy, or taken out.



[*:165asekc]Make partyhats and other tradeable rares untradeable and let Diango offer them to anyone.


I'll go item-by-item:



Year 2001



Pumpkin



Add a pumpkin patch and allow people to pick them. As stated earlier, all current pumpkins would be deleted and replaced with their current market value in coins. Their market value would then be reduced to something more reasonable like 300 gp, as they can be freely picked by anyone from the pumpkin patch. Attempting to get a lot of money for them could be considered scamming.



Also, as they heal 14 HP, allowing them to be as freely picked as cabbages could hurt the market for fish, among other food items, so perhaps a particular farming level could be required to 'harvest' them, and/or an angry farmer that will yell at you and kick you out of the patch if you try to obtain more than a certain number of pumpkins per day.



Christmas cracker



Diango can give these out for fun. As stated earlier, all current Christmas crackers would be deleted and replaced with their current market value in coins. They would then be made untradeable.



Partyhat



Same situation as Christmas crackers.



Year 2002



Easter egg



Allow players to make these using the Cooking skill. [One of] the rewards for every future Easter event can be the knowledge to make them, if the player doesn't have it already.



Hallowe'en masks



Same situation as Christmas crackers.



Santa hat



Similar situation as Christmas crackers, except instead of having Diango give them out, combine them with the Christmas 2008 reward so they actually become PART of that Santa suit. It should also be renamed "Santa costume hat" to match the rest. It's very stupid to have 3/4 of a suit given for free on a holiday event, but the last 1/4 is a rare item that costs almost 20 million coins.



IN 2003, JAGEX SMARTENED UP.



I shall quote Tip.It's holiday items guide:



In 2003, new holiday drop items were created to be untradeable. This was because the makers of the game did not like to see players hoarding old drops and selling them for huge profits. Jagex said that all future holiday drops would not be tradeable, because these items were not meant to be worth millions of gp, they were meant to be for fun.




Jagex agrees with me. Look at the bold part! The problem still exists! Jagex never fixed it, and it needs to be fixed.



Year 2003 onward



Give the holiday items from each event, at every subsequent event of the same type. E.G. Christmas 2009 unlocks items from 2004-2009, Christmas 2010 unlocks items from 2004-2010. Much more fair system.



Other items



Half full wine jug



Simple solution. Bring them back into the game, or just delete them all entirely and replace them with coins. That should have been done IN THE FIRST PLACE. In my opinion they should be brought back. You'd likely choke drinking an ENTIRE jug of wine all at once. And don't mention sharks. I'm just making a point that if people don't want to see an item gone forever, there's a simple way and reason we can re-introduce it.



Disk of returning



Come on... Thurdor's black hole was COOL! Bring it back, OR delete the disk entirely and replace it with coins. Additionally, for those nostalgic people, let Diango give them out free (untradeable) to satisfy you. Or if the first option is chosen, let Thurdor give them out for free.



---



Now everyone's happy, except for grumpy people who will whine that noobs can get partyhats. Well, you know what? THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL IDEA. It was because of players' greed that partyhats were abused and raised to their ridiculous price. They are USELESS items that do absolutely nothing.



And, remember what I mentioned earlier about the wilderness? That upset MANY people, probably MORE than would be upset by my suggested holiday event changes. The wilderness changes probably upset just about every single player in the entire game. I was never a PKer and never will be, and even I didn't like it too much. But it was for the greater good. It had to be done, and everyone got over it and continued with their RuneScape lives. I can tell you right now, the only people that will probably be upset by this change is high levels. But wait... I'm level 136 and I'm the one suggesting it!



A purple partyhat is 9m more than my Armadyl godsword. No wait, let's use a better example. The abyssal whip is widely regarded as the best weapon ever introduced into the game, and it has never been surpassed since its release in 2005. Four years it's held its rank. And it costs only 1.5m. The most expensive partyhat is 220 times more expensive, yet far more than 220 times more useless. Imagine selling toy paper hats for millions of rubles/dollars/yen/whatever. It would be stupid. Toilet paper is far more useful, and that's cheap. You can... well, you know the primary use, you can use it as a tissue, you can wipe up stuff with it... such a useful item. But the paper hat... uhh, let's see. Walk around town and look silly? That's all I can think of.



If I had my way, players wouldn't even get ANYTHING for their rares. I'd delete them and not give them any coins, because they shouldn't have had that value in the first place. But it would probably cause a lot of economic damage due to their high value and demand, so giving players coins back is unfortunately looking like the best possible solution.



Undoubtedly, economic damage will STILL be caused by my solution due to the complete removal of demand for rare items since they will be available for free. I'm not an economist, but I don't think it can really harm THAT much. If a poster here knows a good deal about the economy, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the economic effect the removal of rares would have. Would people work less hard and not bring certain items into the economy because they have no desire for rares and don't care to make money anymore? Or is the amount of people with that mentality so small it won't make a difference?



I will repeat this again: the removal of the wilderness, the removal of free trade and especially the removal of goldfarmers caused great economic damage/alteration and we got through it OK. It was for the greater good, as this is. If nothing is done, rares will continue to influence the economy with their fluctuating prices, and continue to maintain imbalance.



Also, MMORPGs are games where you can be anyone; no one player should have less "opportunity" than another because they joined the game at a later date. And again, if you actually read my post, add "konets" to the end of your reply. Thanks.
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#2
compfreak847
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nachalo



PROBLEM: Huge, huge, huge influx of gee pee into the economy. Vast inflation would insure. These items are unbelievably valuable - players have billions of GP worth. That much GP being thrown into the economy, with no new items to back it up, would be very similar to the US stimulus package. I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with the 'delete them' idea - or better yet, simply make them untradable. No 30 day warning window, just a shift from tradable to non tradable like every other holiday item.



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#3
ilya
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Privet russkij!

Nachalo & Privet!



I totally agree with you on that, but with more and more gp rushing into the economy and GE, rares are due to rise one day, after everyone bought their special armor/weapons.

#4
SirHartlar
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.

#5
Trojann2
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nachalo

Yes, Very good post Jard. I always believed that Rares were stupid for the overinflated prices they held. It's paper, Do all of this Jagex.





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#6
compfreak847
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.


Untrue. Party hats don't symbolize how long you've played - I could buy one right now for a few hundred mill, and I wasn't around when they were dropped. What they DO do is give whoever was around then a HUGE advantage over someone who just joined today - a newb could have picked a few off the ground (I've seen a screenshot of 51 blues when they were dropped) and be set for life because of it.
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#7
sarg1010
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nachalo



That was a good read, should be nominated for a tip.it times article :twss: I agree with most everything there, but if we add Thurdor, won't people ask for him to switch legs and skirts? (unless it was the other guy who I can't remember the name of...) I once made a post on RSOF (I know, crazy right?) about having old holiday items like scythe's etc. be buyable from diango.



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#8
3hitm4g3u
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Pretty dumb idea tbh. Also contradicts itself at several points.



And not letting people get items from a past year on a computer game is nothing like being discriminated against because of your race :lol: .



Yes I read it all.
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#9
SirHartlar
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.


Untrue. Party hats don't symbolize how long you've played - I could buy one right now for a few hundred mill, and I wasn't around when they were dropped. What they DO do is give whoever was around then a HUGE advantage over someone who just joined today - a newb could have picked a few off the ground (I've seen a screenshot of 51 blues when they were dropped) and be set for life because of it.




I meant the party hats are status symbols and the untradeables show how long you've been playing.

#10
Jard_Y_Dooku
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nachalo



PROBLEM: Huge, huge, huge influx of gee pee into the economy. Vast inflation would insure. These items are unbelievably valuable - players have billions of GP worth. That much GP being thrown into the economy, with no new items to back it up, would be very similar to the US stimulus package. I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with the 'delete them' idea - or better yet, simply make them untradable. No 30 day warning window, just a shift from tradable to non tradable like every other holiday item.




You have a point, and I did mention that all the items could be made untradeable/deleted with no GP return, but that would make pretty much every rare owner EXTREMELY upset, and a fair number would probably quit the game. But I'll say this again: it really would be for the greater good, and not a lot of people have rares, so perhaps you're right, the 'delete item' idea would be even better.



nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.




That's the thing. They were NEVER meant to be status symbols. My Armadyl godsword is much more of a status symbol than a partyhat. How long you've been playing really doesn't impress me at all. When I see someone with a scythe I don't think "wow ur so kewl cuz u bin play since liek 2003 omfg". I think "wow, you're a noob, you're only level 50".



nachalo

Yes, Very good post Jard. I always believed that Rares were stupid for the overinflated prices they held. It's paper, Do all of this Jagex.





konets




Thank you for your support, Trojann. You're also high level, so it's good to see support from someone like you. Also, thank you for reading the post ALL THE WAY to the end.



nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.


Untrue. Party hats don't symbolize how long you've played - I could buy one right now for a few hundred mill, and I wasn't around when they were dropped. What they DO do is give whoever was around then a HUGE advantage over someone who just joined today - a newb could have picked a few off the ground (I've seen a screenshot of 51 blues when they were dropped) and be set for life because of it.




Exactly. That's the problem with them, something Jagex never fixed. If they'd done it earlier, it would have saved us the extreme trouble of solving it now, which can cause a lot more economic damage then it would have if they'd fixed it ASAP.



nachalo



That was a good read, should be nominated for a tip.it times article :twss: I agree with most everything there, but if we add Thurdor, won't people ask for him to switch legs and skirts? (unless it was the other guy who I can't remember the name of...) I once made a post on RSOF (I know, crazy right?) about having old holiday items like scythe's etc. be buyable from diango.




Thanks for your support. And you're thinking of Thrandor BTW. ;)



Pretty dumb idea tbh. Also contradicts itself at several points.



And not letting people get items from a past year on a computer game is nothing like being discriminated against because of your race :lol: .



Yes I read it all.




How is it dumb, and where does it contradict itself? Also I'll admit it's nothing like being discriminated against due to race, but I'm making a point of "equal opportunity for all".
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#11
SirHartlar
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.




That's the thing. They were NEVER meant to be status symbols. My Armadyl godsword is much more of a status symbol than a partyhat. How long you've been playing really doesn't impress me at all. When I see someone with a scythe I don't think "wow ur so kewl cuz u bin play since liek 2003 omfg". I think "wow, you're a noob, you're only level 50".




Partyhats cost an upwards of 80M on the GE currently, that amount of money contained in one item is a hell of a lot whatever way you look at it. Jagex never intended for them to rise to such levels, but they have and making them untradeable is unneccessary.



Also, who said anything about the scythes and bunny ears being worn to impress? It is an irrelevant point to bring in, that is like me saying that we should remove cooking skill capes because they don't impress me.

#12
Jard_Y_Dooku
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.




That's the thing. They were NEVER meant to be status symbols. My Armadyl godsword is much more of a status symbol than a partyhat. How long you've been playing really doesn't impress me at all. When I see someone with a scythe I don't think "wow ur so kewl cuz u bin play since liek 2003 omfg". I think "wow, you're a noob, you're only level 50".




Partyhats cost an upwards of 80M on the GE currently, that amount of money contained in one item is a hell of a lot whatever way you look at it. Jagex never intended for them to rise to such levels, but they have and making them untradeable is unneccessary.



Also, who said anything about the scythes and bunny ears being worn to impress? It is an irrelevant point to bring in, that is like me saying that we should remove cooking skill capes because they don't impress me.




We don't need items to show how long we've been playing. All Jagex needs to do is put a field on the highscores "Member since:". Just like on the Tip.It forums member profiles. Problem solved. Give Joe Newb his scythe and bunny ears.
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#13
obfuscator
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nachalo



The idea is interesting, but I will use the saying "don't fix what isn't broken". Certainly this solution is interesting, but not worth it in my opinion.



konets

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#14
SirHartlar
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nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.




That's the thing. They were NEVER meant to be status symbols. My Armadyl godsword is much more of a status symbol than a partyhat. How long you've been playing really doesn't impress me at all. When I see someone with a scythe I don't think "wow ur so kewl cuz u bin play since liek 2003 omfg". I think "wow, you're a noob, you're only level 50".




Partyhats cost an upwards of 80M on the GE currently, that amount of money contained in one item is a hell of a lot whatever way you look at it. Jagex never intended for them to rise to such levels, but they have and making them untradeable is unneccessary.



Also, who said anything about the scythes and bunny ears being worn to impress? It is an irrelevant point to bring in, that is like me saying that we should remove cooking skill capes because they don't impress me.




We don't need items to show how long we've been playing. All Jagex needs to do is put a field on the highscores "Member since:". Just like on the Tip.It forums member profiles. Problem solved. Give Joe Newb his scythe and bunny ears.




If Jagex were capable of implementing this feature and making it easily viewable ingame for everybody to see then I would support your idea, although I still think it would need careful consideration so the market doesn't go haywire. ;)

#15
Jard_Y_Dooku
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nachalo



The idea is interesting, but I will use the saying "don't fix what isn't broken". Certainly this solution is interesting, but not worth it in my opinion.



konets




Ah, but it is broken, which is why I'm suggesting it be fixed. As I mentioned, what has happened with rares was never meant to, thus it is broken.






nachalo



The items are meant for fun, yes, but they also show how long you've been playing in comparison to other players. Untradeable scythes and bunny ears are a good thing imo, if you happened to miss the event that is too bad. Party hats are status symbols, such a radical change would be silly.




That's the thing. They were NEVER meant to be status symbols. My Armadyl godsword is much more of a status symbol than a partyhat. How long you've been playing really doesn't impress me at all. When I see someone with a scythe I don't think "wow ur so kewl cuz u bin play since liek 2003 omfg". I think "wow, you're a noob, you're only level 50".




Partyhats cost an upwards of 80M on the GE currently, that amount of money contained in one item is a hell of a lot whatever way you look at it. Jagex never intended for them to rise to such levels, but they have and making them untradeable is unneccessary.



Also, who said anything about the scythes and bunny ears being worn to impress? It is an irrelevant point to bring in, that is like me saying that we should remove cooking skill capes because they don't impress me.




We don't need items to show how long we've been playing. All Jagex needs to do is put a field on the highscores "Member since:". Just like on the Tip.It forums member profiles. Problem solved. Give Joe Newb his scythe and bunny ears.




If Jagex were capable of implementing this feature and making it easily viewable ingame for everybody to see then I would support your idea, although I still think it would need careful consideration so the market doesn't go haywire. ;)




I'm a software engineer and I can tell you that implementing that feature is a 5-minute task. Jagex has our account creation dates stored in our character profiles, all that's needed is a few extra lines of code to read and display that value, along with the other 300.
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#16
Atom Smash40
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nochalo



its a good idea, but tbh, i love having a rubber chicken. sure u said in the post above that we dont need items to show how long we've been playing. but we actually do. i dont want a lvl 3 who just started having a rubber chicken because he beat an easter 2009 event. the chicken (and bunny ears and yoyo and etc.) are special to that person because it shows how long theyve been around the game. its the symbolic value of the item and the time that the person who owns it has been playing. would u want a lvl 3 to have bunny ears when they just started a week ago and u have bunny ears from wayyyyy back? no, not really, so no to the "unlock all previous items" idea. my earliest item is a rubber chicken, and i dont mind not having a yoyo. my good friend in the game has a yoyo, and i respect that because he has been playing longer than i have and that item shows it. too bad if you didnt make your acc at the right time. just too bad.



i like the partyhat idea and money, but yes, the economy would still be a little messed up because now all these people with unsellables have money to buy anything they want. its not really fair, they pay money for an item that is nearly impossible to sell and then they get money for it.

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#17
The Dark Lord
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The Dark Lord

    Dragon Slayer

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Nochalo.



I would sort of agree with the untradable holiday items, but they are often seen as a way to prove how long someone has played. If there was some sort of feature in-game that allowed players to see how long the other player has played, then I'd be all for untradable holiday items being given to everyone.



As far as party hats, crackers, santa hats, masks, etc., I personally do not think that they are really thought of as holiday items, but more as ways to store excess money. Some players do a lot of GWD (or some other cash cow) and make well over the money cap. It would be very unfair to suddenly make them lose most of their money (cash disappears if you try to add it to a capped cash pile), especially without warning. Granted, one could argue that god swords or other extremely high-value items could be used in place of rares being used to store excess money. However, if a player wants to use their party hats, why not allow them? Besides, you do NOT know the effects of liquidating thousands of rares and flooding the market with coins would have on the overall RS economy. You would be pissing off more than a few people; you would be pissing off dedicated players that have quite possibly played since the beginning of the game and have given more money to Jagex. They are the backbone of the game.
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#18
Kimberly
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Kimberly

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Nachalo, konets, and whatever inane crap that satisfies you.



But I'll say this again: it really would be for the greater good, and not a lot of people have rares, so perhaps you're right, the 'delete item' idea would be even better.




How is it for the greater good? How do we all as a community benefit from it? Because you're tired of seeing level 50's walking around with phats because, god forbid, they're a long time playing low-leveled skiller, or they're very rich?



How is this detrimental to the community?



You cite two irrelevant issues: music and events. Why? There are still music and items you can't get if you're not a member. I could make the same argument that these things should be completely removed from the game because it's unfair to the free players who missed them! (Do you see the problems with that? I hope so.)



Jagex agrees with me. Look at the bold part! The problem still exists! Jagex never fixed it, and it needs to be fixed.




It's YOUR opinion, which leads me to the next quote:



And please don't reply unless you have a GOOD argument against my idea.




Now, isn't that a neat little bit of hypocrisy? We have to accept your premise that rares are "broken" but you won't accept our argument that they shouldn't be changed because it's not "good".



Personally, the only thing "broken" about rares is the price of a Party Hat--which could be fixed with better management of the GE. The rares themselves are fine, otherwise. If their existence offends you...don't buy one! <.<

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#19
mario_sunny
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mario_sunny

    Black Knight Trainer

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nochalo



Honestly this is such a good idea and I think it would really mend the terrible problem of rares that has plagued runescape for so long.



A solution to fix the inflation problem: Jagex could introduce a skill, expand a skill (perhaps construction), or do something else to erase the the gp equal to the amount they they would have to pay players.



Also there is another problem, what about the people with multiple phats? Isn't the maximum amount of coins you can have in the game something like 1.2B? That means with people with 10 blue phats would not get their full amount of coins for their holiday items... it would stop at 1.2B.
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#20
Kimberly
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Kimberly

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nochalo



Honestly this is such a good idea and I think it would really mend the terrible problem of rares that has plagued runescape for so long.



A solution to fix the inflation problem: Jagex could introduce a skill, expand a skill (perhaps construction), or do something else to erase the the gp equal to the amount they they would have to pay players.



Also there is another problem, what about the people with multiple phats? Isn't the maximum amount of coins you can have in the game something like 1.2B? That means with people with 10 blue phats would not get their full amount of coins for their holiday items... it would stop at 1.2B.




What do rares have to do with inflation? Really now? They were not the cause of inflation. The cause of inflation was autoers being removed from the game, removing a LARGE supply of materials from the game in a matter of months. Added onto the fact that the GE initially had a lot of incorrect prices for items which still haven't been corrected, and there you go.

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