Why are people against Communism? (EDITED)

[Intermagma]

This is one thing I don't get. Why are people so discriminatory against communists? I constantly hear people saying "Go [insert word here] yourself you dirty commie!" and "Go burn you commie." The thing is, most people don't even know what communism is. Most people thing that Communism is the same thing as Dictatorship. It is nothing of the sort. If fact, Communists hate dictators. So why do people hate communism? Do you even know what Communism is?

 

 

 

According to wikipedia, "Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general." Pretty much its when 1 party chooses the laws of the country and how the country should be run. In communism, everyone gets a fair share of the countries profits in the form of clothing, nourishment, and housing. So pretty much, in a communist environment you are fully protected by the government at all costs. Is that so bad?

 

 

 

I recently read a text called "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx. As the first few pages caught my attention, I continued reading the text until I finished the whole thing. This text explains what communism is, and its not what most people think. It's exactly when I mentioned above.

 

 

 

The only flaw of a Communist society is that in the end, the leader wishes to gain control of an empire which leads to the downfall of the country (Soviet Union for example). Other than that everything is fair.

 

 

 

So why are people so discriminatory against Communists? This is what I don't get. Is it because there have been almost no examples of a working Communist society? Look at China. The economic market of China is enhancing itself as we speak. China might even have more money than the United States one day.

 

 

 

I will end the discussion from here and leave it open for discussion.

 

 

 

EDIT: Trust me, if Communism hadn't altered at all from what was stated in the Communist Manifesto, Capitalism would not be the main source of income for the world right now.

[hiimben]

Most people are against pure communism because it does not work in practise. There needs to be some sort of figurehead, as you can not let people organize themselves without any sort of pecking order.

 

 

 

I'm no political buff so I'll leave it at that. However I will say I myself dislike most communists I know because most, (Yes, Most, not all of you, don't get all defensive) are 13-15 year old [bleep]s who want to play the minority card and are against the government because they're being super rebellious. They are a shame upon communists who make an effort who do try and see both sides of an argument.

[magekillr]

Uneducated, fear, Stalin, etc.

 

 

 

Anyway, you very well should be against communism in the real world sense of the word. I'd really rather not have a totalitarian government in place, which is more or less the result of implementing an economic policy like communism.

 

 

 

On the flip side, laissez faire capitalism isn't any picnic, either.

 

 

 

If I may quote Noam Chomsky:

 

I should say that when people talk about capitalism it's a bit of a joke. There's no such thing. No country, no business class, has ever been willing to subject itself to the free market, free market discipline. Free markets are for others. Like, the Third World is the Third World because they had free markets rammed down their throat. Meanwhile, the enlightened states, England, the United States, others, resorted to massive state intervention to protect private power, and still do. That's right up to the present. I mean, the Reagan administration for example was the most protectionist in post-war American history. Virtually the entire dynamic economy in the United States is based crucially on state initiative and intervention: computers, the internet, telecommunication, automation, pharmaceutical, you just name it. Run through it, and you find massive ripoffs of the public, meaning, a system in which under one guise or another the public pays the costs and takes the risks, and profit is privatized. That's very remote from a free market. Free market is like what India had to suffer for a couple hundred years, and most of the rest of the Third World.

 

 

 

The best system is easily a capitalist market, with a social safety net for its citizens. The government provides health care, controls the energy industry until we're all off of oil (I'm tired of oil driving foreign policy), education, welfare, etc. The free market provides for other industries, and allows for the richer aspect of society to enjoy higher education, faster access to health care, etc.

 

 

 

Free market with strict oversight and regulation. Also, stop letting the banks get out of control.

 

 

 

Take this test:

 

 

 

http://www.mises.org/quiz.aspx?QuizID=4

 

 

 

Despite coming from Austrian, it's a decent test. The socialist answers are quite comical and that annoys me slightly, but for the most part it's a decent test. I scored a 34. I believe the proper market should land between a 30 and a 40, a 50 being the highest. Anything higher than 50 is not enough regulation, and anything below 20 is too socialist.

[warri0r45]

The people who call you a commie are probably uneducated and ignorant of what exactly communism is. I suppose that kind overtly anti-communism attitude is also because any change from capitalism is seen as radical.

 

 

 

Me, I'm against communism because I think it would be unfair to go through years of education only to end up earning as much as someone who only needs to make a job application and do a few weeks of training. Capitalism won't be perfectly "fair" either because there's always going to be a lower class, but if people want to apply themselves then they can work for a better life. Put in the effort, get the reward.

 

 

 

The furthest I'd go down the road to communism is some socialism.

[MC_Kejml]

Yep, this has been here a lot of times. Communism is bad, kids.

 

 

 

And what do we have now...? A economical crysis? Oh well... kthxbai

 

 

 

 

Author doesn't care about communism or capitalism at all

[Intermagma]

Author doesn't care about communism or capitalism at all

 

 

 

I much prefer Communism over a Capitalistic society

 

 

 

Ahem...USA...

[Sly_Wizard]

Simple answer: Because it doesn't work.

 

 

 

Slightly longer answer: Because people don't like forced charity.

[dsavi]

Boom shackalacka

[i_love_burritos]

I had the same discussion with one of my Teachers a while back.

 

You see Communism and the Theology of Communism are very different things, if you read Animal Farm by George Orwell, you will know. Although it sounds good, rather very good in theory, it cannont function, unless in a penned utopian society.

 

 

 

Human nature, ethics, morals and how we treat our fellow man are Communism's fallacys. Trotsky is proof of this. Greed, ambition, power are all things Marx failed to take into account. The current economic system of Communism, known as planned economys or command economys are finally realizing this. You see China becoming more and more centered. Also I don't know if you know this, but during WWII Britain actually shifted its socio-economic stance, became much more "Communist". Ofcourse the nations that actually pursue Communism, have traditionally, in the past have been despotic, and agriculture oriented systems, with several high authorotative figures up at the top of the pyramid. This is especially relevant for Russia, formely USSR.

 

 

 

To answer the second part of your question, why a Communist is a deragatory term, you must think realisticly. Think of the Cold War, that was a time of political and idealogical upheaval where everyone was either left or right. Many politcal campaigns were also fuelled by fear, mostly in the 1960's when the Cold Wat took place. Politicans used the fear of the "Red Tide" or advancement of Communism to keep themselves in office. It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to identify why "Commies" are "Red".

 

 

 

[cabbage], in the time I took to write this, two people have already posted.

[mmmcannibalism]

Since the economic basis has already been addressed I will add 2 things

 

 

 

1. no pure system will work except maybe socialism(definition of pure socialism is a little fluid)

 

 

 

here is why communism is a bad idea though

 

 

 

How do you feel about your government right now? Multiply that by 10 and you have your feeling about your communist government assuming it doesnt go dictator.

[Lenticular_J]

Well, the reasons people've posted. But also the same reason people turn against Islam, Christianity, capitalism, America, England, France, Mars ...

 

 

 

PROPAGANDA

[JIM]

The West isn't even a fully capitalist society...

 

 

 

Part of where all this "down with the Commies" rubbish comes from is government propaganda purposes during the Cold War. Create a demon for society to focus its hatred on and they'll also be less likely to sort out any problems they have at home.

 

 

 

"Radical Islam" currently occupies the seat once held by Communism. It's just another shill, used by the government propaganda machine to keep us all in a state of fear and ignorance.

[JIM]

Something else I'd like to add (it won't let me edit my last post) is that somehow, through the public education system and the media, Communism has been linked with Facism on an almost subconscious level.

 

 

 

People seem to find it very hard to distinguish between the two or tend to think they go hand in hand... Which of course they don't!

[Barihawk]

You've read Marx? Then you will note that the implementation of socialism has never EVER gone the way he said it. Marx was speaking to German workers 150 years ago with a set plan and agenda. Not to a ragtag bunch of Russians who had a poorly educated and trained peasant base. Or Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese people of whom the "bourgeois" consisted of most of the nation and relied on illiterate peasantry to form it's backbone (the proletariat was created AFTER the revolution?!!)

 

 

 

In all real-world implementations of Communism, there has been mass death of anyone who doesn't conform to the agenda, or who are labelled as not conforming to the agenda (such as the great purges in the Soviet Union by Stalin).

 

 

 

There are no checks in real world Communism's power. No people to answer to, no force to balance anything done by the government. It is essentially a dictatorship, even if one person doesn't have the power (although in almost all cases, they do).

 

 

 

Marx was a philosopher describing a utopian view of the future. His followers over the years have never taken into account that a push to socialism (WHAT MARX WAS ACTUALLY PROPOSING) requires a utopian society in it's own regard. Not to mention a distinct process had to be followed that was SKIPPED in almost all nations who adopted the Communist model (most of the time this step was an Industrial Revolution, which Russia had to fake it's way through, and China is just going through NOW). Hell, Russia found itself without a bourgeois after the Revolution (everyone had skipped out or fled the cities) so they ended up having to create one just to have a bourgeois to oppose!

 

 

 

Now, those people calling you a Commie might be idiots. But so are you if you think what Marx was proposing was Communism. He wanted Socialism, where the government controlled most, but not all. Not Communism in it's modern sense, which was created by Stalin and mirrored in other nations.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, there is no pure Capitalism in contrast with the pure Communism you propose. All "Capitalist" nations follow regulated Capitalism. The "invisible hand" so many armchair economists like to point out belongs to Smith's view of Laissez-Faire capitalism which died out in the Gilded Age about a hundred years ago. Describing things as Capitalist vs Communist is like using Conservative vs Liberal, only the extremes.

 

 

through the public education system and the media, Communism has been linked with Facism on an almost subconscious level.

 

 

 

People seem to find it very hard to distinguish between the two or tend to think they go hand in hand... Which of course they don't!

 

 

 

Stalin alone penned the deaths of thirty million people within a ten year period, the vast majority of which had never done anything wrong except be born into certain families or classes before the Revolution. Claiming your views are right and killing anyone who disagrees with you? And then legitimizing this power as an extension of the Revolution? That's fascism. It's not the ideology, it's the practice. Not to mention the fact they couldn't just wake Marx' zombie up and ask him if they were doing it right or not.

[Lateralus]

Collectivism almost always tends towards facism - It's not coincidental. The Road To Serfdom by Hayek is an excellent text on the subject.

[JIM]

Stalin alone penned the deaths of thirty million people within a ten year period, the vast majority of which had never done anything wrong except be born into certain families or classes before the Revolution. Claiming your views are right and killing anyone who disagrees with you? And then legitimizing this power as an extension of the Revolution? That's fascism. It's not the ideology, it's the practice. Not to mention the fact they couldn't just wake Marx' zombie up and ask him if they were doing it right or not.

 

 

 

I don't understand whether you're countering my point or offering an explanation... :)

 

 

 

Stalinism is a Communist-Marxist theory but there are also some non-Marxist forms of Communism. Someone claiming to be a Communist but whom doesn't act as a Communist, isn't a Communist.

[dragoonson]

Might have to do with tubes in the communist color of red?

 

 

 

Communism is the closest to my idealogy,so I have no hate for it,anyway.People are naturally distrustful of things that will stifle their greed,but once in place lazyness will take over.Human nature makes a perfect system flawed.

[Barihawk]

Stalin alone penned the deaths of thirty million people within a ten year period, the vast majority of which had never done anything wrong except be born into certain families or classes before the Revolution. Claiming your views are right and killing anyone who disagrees with you? And then legitimizing this power as an extension of the Revolution? That's fascism. It's not the ideology, it's the practice. Not to mention the fact they couldn't just wake Marx' zombie up and ask him if they were doing it right or not.

 

 

 

I don't understand whether you're countering my point or offering an explanation... :)

 

 

 

Stalinism is a Communist-Marxist theory but there are also some non-Marxist forms of Communism. Someone claiming to be a Communist but whom doesn't act as a Communist, isn't a Communist.

 

 

 

Then there is no such thing as Communism except for the name of Marx' book. Because all so-called Communist governments have used massive violence (Khmer Rouge made Stalin look like a boy scout) to secure their power, even when it was unnecessary.

 

 

 

Communist governments use violence to gain control, much in the way that fascists do the same. On most political-economic models, Communism and Fascism lie on the same coordinates (ironically). While Socialism is close to authoritarianism, regulated capitalism close to republicanism, and laissez-faire where democracy should lie.

 

 

 

Communism is an invention of Stalin, not Marx. Mark named his book that, but what he wanted was what we now call Socialism (which he also called it in his book). Socialism and Communism are about as different as regulated capitalism vs laissez-faire. Major differences, actually.

 

 

 

Anyone who preaches Marx really needs to use the term socialism, because the modern connotation of "communist" has been bastardized.

[hellbellz]

Human nature makes a perfect system flawed.

 

Ha, if the system is so perfect it should probably coincide with human nature.

[JIM]

 

the modern connotation of "communist" has been bastardized.

 

 

 

This was my original point. It seems you're arguing semantics.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

 

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you said in your previous post but I don't see the relevance to my previous comments. I don't need to be schooled on socio-economic theory, thanks. :)

 

 

 

I would put forward the notion that whilst the "Communist" governments you speak of do use violent coercion to gain power and control, in doing so they aren't following any of the basic tenets of communist theory and so can't be deemed as "Communists" in the purest sense, only in the media-induced bastardisation of the word. You admit yourself the word has been bastardised but use the fact that so-called "Communist" governments don't follow Communism as proof that Communism doesn't exist?

 

 

 

I'm debating the theory, not the word usage. Let's get past pedantic nitpicking and get to the good stuff please.

[Barihawk]

I'm not nitpicking you, there are some so-called "socialists" and even "communists" on these boards who really need the pedantic lecture.

 

 

 

And Communism as an ideology does exist. As a title of a book. I'm still saying that Marx intended in the Manifesto for a Socialist government. The word Communist as a political ideology was an invention of Stalin, almost purely. It was a bastardization of Marx, not a propaganda tool for the west. Lenin set out in the Revolution to create a socialist government, and Stalin changed that. He had his own unique view of socialism, which he called Communism because he felt it was the true method that Marx was pushing for.

 

 

 

If you claim to be "Communist" you automatically claim to hold Stalin's ideology regarding totalitarian control over industry and commerce. In other words, you skipped the Socialist mini-stage of Marx' plan and went straight to utopia without setting it up.

 

 

 

Socialism was the final stage in economic evolution, Marx would argue. Communism is the end result. You can't have Communism without a long period of socialism in order to set it up. Which is something that all Communist governments completely skipped. The change from capitalism to communism must be gradual or bad things will happen.

[JIM]

I'm not nitpicking you, there are some so-called "socialists" and even "communists" on these boards who really need the pedantic lecture.

 

 

 

And Communism as an ideology does exist. As a title of a book. I'm still saying that Marx intended in the Manifesto for a Socialist government. The word Communist as a political ideology was an invention of Stalin, almost purely. It was a bastardization of Marx, not a propaganda tool for the west. Lenin set out in the Revolution to create a socialist government, and Stalin changed that. He had his own unique view of socialism, which he called Communism because he felt it was the true method that Marx was pushing for.

 

 

 

If you claim to be "Communist" you automatically claim to hold Stalin's ideology regarding totalitarian control over industry and commerce. In other words, you skipped the Socialist mini-stage of Marx' plan and went straight to utopia without setting it up.

 

 

 

Socialism was the final stage in economic evolution, Marx would argue. Communism is the end result. You can't have Communism without a long period of socialism in order to set it up. Which is something that all Communist governments completely skipped. The change from capitalism to communism must be gradual or bad things will happen.

 

 

 

Dude, I know all of this.

 

 

 

The issue in point was "Why do people hate communism?" though, and I was trying to address the issue that "Communism" in the modern sense isn't what Communism was envisioned to be. The widely shared view of Communism is that of regimes such as Stalin, but this is only because dictators such as he took what they wanted from Marxist theory and, like you said, left out huge portions.

 

 

 

The point I was trying to construe is that when people say "Communism" nowadays, what they're really doing is using the term to describe the ideologies of a chosen few who used the theory as an excuse to control through force. Marx obviously didn't mean for anything he'd written to be used in the manner it was.

 

 

 

Do you have any links/references showing that Stalin invented Communism?

[indy500fan]

I don't like communism because it doesn't reward hard work or innovation, a lazy person working as a janitor in a factory will be making the same as someone who spends 16 hours a day trying to develop a more efficient automobile engine.

[Quoi_Tu]

Somewhat relevant to commmunism, centrally planned economies have typically shown poor economic growth rates. In some cases, they can provide high short term growth rates, but usually struggle to achieve sustained growth. One bonus they have been shown to have is quickly changing an economy from agricultural to industrial in a short period of time. One reason for the mess of a centrally planned economy is the resources which go into the bureaucracy to control the economy take away from resources that could be invested in business.

 

 

 

To the OP, people are likely to call you a commie if you arrogantly display your belief of communism by "explaining" the faults of capitalism. Unless of course, commie is becoming a new popular insult. In which case, I'm so going to start using it, you communist slug.

[JIM]

Somewhat relevant to commmunism, centrally planned economies have typically shown poor economic growth rates. In some cases, they can provide high short term growth rates, but usually struggle to achieve sustained growth. One bonus they have been shown to have is quickly changing an economy from agricultural to industrial in a short period of time. One reason for the mess of a centrally planned economy is the resources which go into the bureaucracy to control the economy take away from resources that could be invested in business.

 

 

 

To the OP, people are likely to call you a commie if you arrogantly display your belief of communism by "explaining" the faults of capitalism. Unless of course, commie is becoming a new popular insult. In which case, I'm so going to start using it, you communist slug.

 

 

 

Centrally planned economies such as the US/Englands? :)

 

 

 

We both have central banks that control interest rates, inflation etc... We're "Capitalist" tho, right? ;)