mmmcannibalism Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Why would you want better advantages when you have everything that you need and there's no complaints about it? Why not? If people lost all advantages to working hard there would be some drop in productivity, Im not going to go with the paranoia of everyone will stop working but unless you love your job the pay is a major motivator. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0l0lpur34 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Notice how the reason China has been/is booming so much is because of embracing the free market... communism never works, every real-world manifestation of it has being an opressive dictatorship... i've never really understood why communism is "acceptable" to support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 People hate Communism because history has proven that it usually leads to corruption and abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_am_Geed Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 People hate Communism because history has proven that it usually leads to corruption and abuse. Its basicly the utopia of society that never works. The fact that people are power mongers prevents any good of coming out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 People hate Communism because history has proven that it usually leads to corruption and abuse. Its basicly the utopia of society that never works. The fact that people are power mongers prevents any good of coming out of it. The fact that people need a leader, authority, prevents that, let alone how easily corruptible people are. I'm aware of the theory of communism (at a basic level, at least.) I also agree that it's vastly impractical on a large scale. There are communities that live together, share resources and money, and they prosper in simple ways that most people don't cherish as much (Mennonites? I'm not sure.). These communities are small and managable. Expand said community from 20 people to 200,000 people, and it's more chaotic and less practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 You guys hit it on the head. Communes really only world (and do, in real life) with a small number of people. I'm talking village, here. There's just no way to transmit it to a society without everyone spreading out into farming communes and only producing what they need. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoi_Tu Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 You guys hit it on the head. Communes really only world (and do, in real life) with a small number of people. I'm talking village, here. There's just no way to transmit it to a society without everyone spreading out into farming communes and only producing what they need. Yeah, small villages can replace the usual incentives to produce efficiently allowing people to continue to produce efficiently. It's kind of interesting how social norms can (in some cases) replace market norms. It's where the whole "the company is a big family" speech came from. Beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 People hate Communism because history has proven that it usually leads to corruption and abuse. Its basicly the utopia of society that never works. The fact that people are power mongers prevents any good of coming out of it. So then what should we really be hating? Communism, or the people that run it afoul? And Lateralus: yes. It is. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_love_burritos Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 For every quasi-intellectual thread out on OT I'm gonna' put: What Barihawk said. Or What Barihawk [will] say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushrock Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I suppose it depends on the type of freedom you mean. Free speech? To an extent. Speech restrictions that exist currently-slander, threats, and the like-would still be present, and such things as freedom of protest, peaceful or not, would be removed, and speech against the government would be restricted to a degree. A few grumblings about "man, I don't like [leader], he's kind of an [wagon]/I don't like particularly like his stance on [issue]" are fine, but any kind of speech that could lead to a drastic loss of public faith in the system or signs of dangerous activity would have action taken against them immediately. Religion? That's a little sketchy. I'd personally like the removal of the church from the state, as it is mostly now, but to the point where we aren't "founded in Christianity", period. But as for total eradication, I don't really know. I guess it depends on the active religions in the future and the religious violence present. Diversity is necessary to an extent. The previously mentioned stances are an example, but I also wouldn't go totally Trueman Doctrine on any nation unwilling to conform. And privacy, well, that's sort of out. Little other way to monitor the aforementioned revolutionary talk. Mostly electronic, though, and checking for keywords in certain patterns probably. I guess that's how they do e-mails and the like now. Are people allowed to leave? And what if your plans aren't accepted on a large scale (never mind if they don't work). And there's something wrong with a loss of public faith? If there is such a loss, then something is going wrong. If nothing is going wrong, and your system just needs time to get started (I believe that was mentioned here as a key componenet to Communism), then will the people be told that? And if some people believe that such speculations are wrong and that such and such will happen instead, they aren't allowed to voice that? Why is protesting bad? Also, if your society doesn't allow protest, then you should go ahead and remove that part about people being allowed to talk to their friends about the politics of the time and why they're bad. Where do you draw the line from okay to dangerous to the faith in the government? Can you even imagine a line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygimantas Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 But I want to have more land then the next guy, I want to make more money, I want to showoff. Being equal with everyone else is just not natural. But why do you want to make more money? Money shouldn't be an end, maybe a means, but never an end. So I can eat better food, drive a better car and spend more money on hobbies and such. I do not mean just making more money for doing nothing different from anyone else, I mean working harder then the next guy. I should be able to choose if i want to work 18 hrs a day, make more money and buy more land then my friend, even if there may be no point. Why would you want better advantages when you have everything that you need and there's no complaints about it? Because people always want more. 99 Hunter - November 1st, 200899 Cooking -July 22nd, 200999 Firemaking - July 29th, 201099 Fletching - December 30th, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 But I want to have more land then the next guy, I want to make more money, I want to showoff. Being equal with everyone else is just not natural. But why do you want to make more money? Money shouldn't be an end, maybe a means, but never an end. So I can eat better food, drive a better car and spend more money on hobbies and such. I do not mean just making more money for doing nothing different from anyone else, I mean working harder then the next guy. I should be able to choose if i want to work 18 hrs a day, make more money and buy more land then my friend, even if there may be no point. Why would you want better advantages when you have everything that you need and there's no complaints about it? Because people always want more. And they should goddamn stop at that place. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Are people allowed to leave? And what if your plans aren't accepted on a large scale (never mind if they don't work). And there's something wrong with a loss of public faith? If there is such a loss, then something is going wrong. If nothing is going wrong, and your system just needs time to get started (I believe that was mentioned here as a key componenet to Communism), then will the people be told that? And if some people believe that such speculations are wrong and that such and such will happen instead, they aren't allowed to voice that? Why is protesting bad? Also, if your society doesn't allow protest, then you should go ahead and remove that part about people being allowed to talk to their friends about the politics of the time and why they're bad. Where do you draw the line from okay to dangerous to the faith in the government? Can you even imagine a line? I've given it some thought. Can people leave? It's still tough to say. Ideally no, unless they can fly into space. But otherwise? Case-by-case, I would think. Studying abroad, or student visas for things like job training (People go to Cuba for med school aoften, right?), stuff like that would be allowed. Of course the people would need to know that it just needs time to get started. Not telling them that would have no benefit to anyone. And I never said they could discuss things; just that an offhand comment, per say, would have no repercussions. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushrock Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I actually meant leaving the country permanently, but that's also a good point. And my other point was the problem you have with protesting and the public having mixed opinions and all that. Protest and a diversity of ideas is healthy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0l0lpur34 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Lol at all the wannabe tinpot dictators on this thread. But I want to have more land then the next guy, I want to make more money, I want to showoff. Being equal with everyone else is just not natural. But why do you want to make more money? Money shouldn't be an end, maybe a means, but never an end. So I can eat better food, drive a better car and spend more money on hobbies and such. I do not mean just making more money for doing nothing different from anyone else, I mean working harder then the next guy. I should be able to choose if i want to work 18 hrs a day, make more money and buy more land then my friend, even if there may be no point. Why would you want better advantages when you have everything that you need and there's no complaints about it? Because people always want more. And they should goddamn stop at that place. If everyone had that attitude then the machine you used to type that message, wouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 If everyone had that attitude then the machine you used to type that message, wouldn't exist. Good point. Computers aren't and never were a necessity, but I think they are very beneficial machines. I like the "for the good of society" mentality rather than the "for the good of people" one. Of course there is the other part of me saying that there are those who have way more than necessary and those who have way less and I'd like to see these extremes balance out a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intermagma Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 If everyone had that attitude then the machine you used to type that message, wouldn't exist. Good point. Computers aren't and never were a necessity, but I think they are very beneficial machines. I like the "for the good of society" mentality rather than the "for the good of people" one. Of course there is the other part of me saying that there are those who have way more than necessary and those who have way less and I'd like to see these extremes balance out a little. No computers= no Tip.it which means this post would never exist =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren0gade Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 People dislike communism because of the fact it has a horrible history. The Communist economy performances compared to market economies are much worse off, and those countries do have problems usually with human rights. One example is east berlin. They walled people, and didn't allow outside influence or allow citizens to leave. Not to mention Stalin and his "great purge" were responsible for the deaths of millions of his countrymen. Masta Chef Drops-- Dragon: Medium(2),Spear(1),Legs(2),Skirt(1) Pharaoh's Scepter(1) Barrows items(10 total) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_love_burritos Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Dont forget Mr./Chairman/Highlord Mao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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