Is there any worth to anything ?

[i_love_burritos]

[hide=Long Post]Lately I've felt different about everything. I can't really explain it but I've been thinking. If you automatically assume I'm depressed, please reconsider.

 

 

 

On to my post.

 

 

 

Every breathing minute of every day people die of disease, poverty, and countless other things. The luxury of hope is destroyed and more oftenly denied to everyone. Why do things happen the way they do ? Does anyone really care past their own lives ? Past their insecurities and failures - or in some rare cases - their success ? What about the people who have recently, to politely put it, "lost someone", memory does not persist and those who are forgotten remain forgotten. Is there any intrinisic value in life ? To be gained or learned ? Or is it just to wait it out untill death ? Is it like this for every human ? Is this all there is ?

 

 

 

At maximum 10,000 years of "intelligent" human existence is this, as a race, all we have produced ? Great writers and thinkers that with such lucidty and profoundity expressed their ideas and only a few handful have comprehended them ?

 

 

 

Why do we have this lust for knowlegde ? What will it account for when it comes to weighing the scales ? Can anyone say anything honestly anymore ? Why do people do the things they do ? For the love of it ? Who remembers the most recent disaster ? Who at all cares for anyone else in this world ?

 

 

 

In the 14 billion years that "this" has been here, and the 4 that the Earth has been here, all it has done has churned out an unending array of stars and cosmic bodies - and such beauty is lost upon us who have neither the time nor the will to think or to love or to remember.

 

 

 

Does this pursuit for normality mean anything ? Death - unavoidable and fleeting, after I die and then you - will our loss mean anything to the others around us ?

 

 

 

For those who did not have a chance or were unwilling - for anything really, do you think it would have made a difference ? To end ignorance, suffering and listlessness ? Does anyone wonder what could be, might be or will be ?

 

 

 

Is there anything more ? Does anything matter ?

 

 

 

Please note : This was an open ended question and series of thoughts that I had been mulling over. No need for you to post if you dont want to. I just wanted to get this out and find some answers.[/hide]

 

TLDR :

 

Why does [cabbage] happen and is that [cabbage] all there is.

 

 

 

Note: Not trying to illicit a pseudointellectual response from you guys, just wanted to know your opinions.

[Zierro]

Lateralus by Tool sums it up pretty well. Life's a gift to live how you want. To discover your desires and to fulfill them. It's all up to you.

 

 

 

You can look at the world and call it a piece of [cabbage]. Hell, it is! Compare this piece of [cabbage] world to a realm of complete nothingness though. Which would you rather have? I'd always pay the price of misery just to have a few good laughs, accomplish my goals, love the ones who are close to me. Those experiences are worth anything. Life is beautiful.

 

 

 

Not trying to illicit a pseudointellectual response from you guys, just wanted to know your opinions.

 

 

 

Oops, should have warned me. You saw me online.

[i_love_burritos]

Lateralus by Tool ?

 

 

 

What's that ?

[MisterGreen]

People define their existence through suffering. If everything was perfect, how would anyone know it was perfect?

[Lateralus]

Life is as much an infliction as it is a gift.

 

 

 

I'm surprised at your posting this, given your understanding of Camus. I think absurdism ties up these loose ends quite nicely.

[Zierro]

Life is as much an infliction as it is a gift.

 

 

 

I'm surprised at your posting this, given your understanding of Camus. I think absurdism ties up these loose ends quite nicely.

 

 

 

Philosophy? Tying up loose ends? What?

[Lateralus]

It's subjective of course, but I think Camus slots nicely into most peoples' brains.

[i_love_burritos]

It's subjective of course, but I think Camus slots nicely into most peoples' brains.

 

 

 

I know. But I was just thinking.

 

 

 

To me life is not a gift. It is not simply given - it is earned. It is a privilege.

[ElkNight]

Lateralus by Tool ?

 

 

 

What's that ?

 

A song.

[i_love_burritos]

Lateralus by Tool ?

 

 

 

What's that ?

 

A song.

 

 

 

Thought so. I thought that Zierro was saying that the TIF Lateralus said - something.

[Range_This11]

Lateralus by Tool ?

 

 

 

What's that ?

 

A song.

 

Funny thing, I just took the last two weeks to master that song on drums. I might record/film me playing it at my old high school's auditorium and post it on here.

 

 

 

On topic, life is pretty meaningless in a basic way, but the fun of life is what you make it. For some, making it dull and cynical is their interpretation of life, but for others being joyful and finding happiness in every day accomplishments is what makes it worthwhile. It's really an open-ended question because of our freewill to interpret it as such

[Mirror]

Some great ideas and words came from this topic.

 

 

 

To answer your "Why does cabbage happen?" question, MisterGreen answered it how I would have. It's subjectively comparative. Imagine an apple in front of you. How would one describe an apple without knowing anything else about anything. They would see it and compare it with the nothingness around it. Now throw in an orange. Now you can see differences in shape, color, etc. Without having other things to compare to things, we would not be able to "enjoy" something to its full extent. Applying this to life, if only good things happened, all being perfect, we wouldn't know anything else. If only a smidgen of difference occurred, we would be upset and call it crap. Say I give one person $5 and another $4. Some would call that unfair, but did one deserve any money in the first place? No. That is why I take life as it is, no matter what is given to me.

 

 

 

To answer your "Is that cabbage all there is?" question, this answer is all dependent on the person you are talking to. I am approaching this from a 'if I die' stance. You could talk to some with religious beliefs (sorry guys, had to pull out the religion card) and they would say there is a better life after this life. Another would say reincarnation. Another would say no, there is nothing at all. I don't think there is any way to prove what there is after death, because well, we would be dead and not be able to tell everyone. And just so no one gets on my case, those brought back from the dead after x amount of time, I really can't take as hardcore truth. It could be true, but it's hard for me to believe because there have been different views as what one say, so I'm just avoiding this part in my answer.

 

 

 

So in conclusion, subjectively comparative to answer your first one and your second one is dependent on what one believes in. Thanks for the topic!

[Pinkbullet3]

You know what I've always thought?

 

 

 

Since we were all little, we've been taught to associate the words "blue," "green," and many other words with their respective colors. Of course, this smiley: :) is yellow to me and you.

 

 

 

But what if I looked through YOUR EYES, only to discover that what YOU perceive as a yellow smiley, looks blue to me? If I continued to look through your eyes, everything that I learned was yellow seemed blue through your eyes, but as you grew up, you learned that MY blue is YOUR yellow.

 

 

 

Is this possible? Perhaps if I looked through your eyes, everything might seem like a negative while all this time you think it's perfectly normal, as you've been seeing things this way your entire life?

[Housepig]

You know what I've always thought?

 

 

 

Since we were all little, we've been taught to associate the words "blue," "green," and many other words with their respective colors. Of course, this smiley: :) is yellow to me and you.

 

 

 

But what if I looked through YOUR EYES, only to discover that what YOU perceive as a yellow smiley, looks blue to me? If I continued to look through your eyes, everything that I learned was yellow seemed blue through your eyes, but as you grew up, you learned that MY blue is YOUR yellow.

 

 

 

Is this possible? Perhaps if I looked through your eyes, everything might seem like a negative while all this time you think it's perfectly normal, as you've been seeing things this way your entire life?

 

 

 

The idea you're getting at is that essentialy, everything is opinion. Things which are percieved to be true by enough people are called 'facts' for convinience's sake. For example, it is the opinion of the vast majority of human beings that 2+2=4, but that doesn't make it true. Those who are skepticaly inclined like to describe those who belive in the paranoramal or the spiritual world as deluded, without realizing it implies some objective measure of truth--which does not and cannot exist. It's very confusing and totally impracticle for consideration in decision-making, but I think it's something we should all have at the back of our minds.

 

 

 

To return to the question at hand, no, life does not have any worth. We are just a product of mathematics and have no purpose but that which we create for ourselves. With this worldview, I have come to the conclusion that the only universal desire for human beings is the desire to be happy--to be exposed to stimuli that produce internal chemical reactions we find enjoyable (I don't mean on a simple level but in terms of fulfillment, ectr.). So the rationale behind all action 'should' be something along the lines of "How will this effect the total happiness of all life?" But this doesn't mean happiness has any intrinsic value.

[Zygimantas]

To me Life and Death are the same thing

 

 

 

Life is nothing and everything

 

 

 

Same with death

 

 

 

 

 

There is no ultimate purpose

[redhaloguy]

 

To me life is not a gift. It is not simply given - it is earned. It is a privilege.

 

 

 

Sorry man, I can't agree with that. It's not earned. You can't help but be here, your parents felt like having you, by accident or not.

 

You could of ended it at any point, but due to morals of yourself and others around you, you don't. Truly you're forced to live a life. Unless you want knowing you hurt people by hurting yourself or not knowing what's ahead (Which gets to religion, which I'd rather not discuss).

[Orpheus]

Life isn't short, it's the longest thing you have.

[Nero]

Life isn't short, it's the longest thing you have.

 

 

 

Maybe the longest thing you have.

[Dexek]

Lateralus by Tool ?

 

 

 

What's that ?

 

 

 

Good song by a great band. :thumbsup:

[Rien]

You know what I've always thought? ...

 

The idea you're getting at is that essentialy, everything is opinion. Things which are percieved to be true by enough people are called 'facts' for convinience's sake. For example, it is the opinion of the vast majority of human beings that 2+2=4, but that doesn't make it true. Those who are skepticaly inclined like to describe those who belive in the paranoramal or the spiritual world as deluded, without realizing it implies some objective measure of truth--which does not and cannot exist. It's very confusing and totally impracticle for consideration in decision-making, but I think it's something we should all have at the back of our minds.

 

"There are no facts, only interpretations."

It's a brilliant quote; your conversation reminded me of it, and I think it applies well to that train of thought.

 

 

 

Anyway, I believe that each of us must create our own meaning in life; there is no purpose to be "found" in our existence. In truth, we are little more than miserable, lonely creatures of little consequence. We live for but a brief span of years and will leave no lasting mark on the universe upon death. Therefore, in knowing that our actions are ultimately accomplished in vain of any "greater purpose," we must make a choice: to accept as truth the philosophy of nihilism and quietly bow out of existence, or to acknowledge its verity and yet strive in opposition regardless--however futile and nonsensical the effort may be.

 

 

 

This actually brings me to two addition quotes, so I'll leave these in conclusion.

 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Do not go gentle into that good night,

 

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

 

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

 

 

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

 

Because their words had forked no lightning they

 

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

 

 

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

 

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

 

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

 

 

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

 

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

 

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

 

 

 

 

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

 

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

 

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

 

 

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

 

Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

 

Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[DUELMASTER30]

I've always thought about this, and honestly, I have no real answer. I tend to view the whole of humanity as one living being, slowly growing, getting older, larger, wiser, faster, smarter, and if you take this view, you realize we are so very alone. This is what makes me love looking at things in space. There is an infinitesimal chance that we are the only thing out here, and we must find 'them' to have any chance at happiness. To find differences, to learn from them, to have stories to tell, and to not be alone. Probably what makes me think this is not believing in God or an afterlife, so I think that we must do the most we can in this life.

 

 

 

Just something to think about..

[Qeauxraline]

"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity."

 

 

 

Yes. I did just quote the Bible, but it sums it up nicely there. Everything you work for is meaningless. For all the religious and non-religious people out there, you're going to die. You're going to rot. All your stuff is going to rot. And the Milky Way will slam right into Andromeda in a couple billion years, and BAM! All gone.

 

 

 

So in the end, is your life pretty meaningless? Yep! Sure is. Nothing you have or do will be worth crap in the long run. It'll just burn and get sucked into a nice old black hole. It's up to you to make something of yourself that won't burn, and that's where the religious debate comes into play.

[DUELMASTER30]

Sorry to be picky, but I have to say this, when the Milky Way hits the Andromeda galaxy, there is an extremely small chance the earth will be hit by ANYTHING, although we may get wrenched out of the sun's orbit or us and the sun thrown out into empty space.

[i_love_burritos]

 

To me life is not a gift. It is not simply given - it is earned. It is a privilege.

 

 

 

Sorry man, I can't agree with that. It's not earned. You can't help but be here, your parents felt like having you, by accident or not.

 

You could of ended it at any point, but due to morals of yourself and others around you, you don't. Truly you're forced to live a life. Unless you want knowing you hurt people by hurting yourself or not knowing what's ahead (Which gets to religion, which I'd rather not discuss).

 

 

 

To some extent that is true. We all came out of someone's vagina at one point. And at that time you have no control whatsoever - of anything really. In saying it is earned, I feel that people who waste their lives do not "deserve to live".

 

 

 

When you say you are forced to live life, that is what I dislike. Why can't we simply exist without purpose. Without attachment to anyone or anything ?

[whocares]

The purpose of life is to reproduce and in doing so continue life. Your post supports this purpose.