indy500fan Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Your body and brain get that energy from somewhere, and that is from food. Nope, atoms get energy from having mass. more info Individual atoms have a certain amount of energy because they are mass. Mass and energy can be substituted for each other. Your brain uses energy it gets from glucose stored in your body, and while it is only 2% of your body weight normally it uses around 25% of the total energy that your body uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild_goat_14 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 There is no such thing as "nothing at all" even a brick wall that once stood solid is still something when it is demolished. I'm not claiming there is life after death or reincarnation but I am claiming that once the physical self is dead, you will still be energy in the eye's of physics. Just in response to all those 'blind' at the very beginning. The question is, if energy never ceases to exist and everything is made of energy which continuously creates the universe, what part does your energy play? Even if the answer is nothing, you will always be something. When someone is braindead their ability to think is gone. They are not there, they see nothing, but don't know it. They don't remember anything, they don't know anything, they no longer exist. They are no longer there. Just like death. you are dead, and you body, just like that of any other animal, slowly decomposes after your death. You are no longer there, yet you are gone before you know you are gone. It is just the end. And yes, your body does still contain energy, which scavengers and decomposers feed off of. And you will be something. A corpse rotting 6 feet underground. It is sad to think of, but the only logical explanation. I shall take my flock underneath my own wing, and kick them right the [bleep] out of the tree. If they were meant to fly, they won't break their necks on the concrete.So, what is 1.111... equal to?10/9. Please don't continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Your body and brain get that energy from somewhere, and that is from food. Nope, atoms get energy from having mass. more info Individual atoms have a certain amount of energy because they are mass. Mass and energy can be substituted for each other. Your brain uses energy it gets from glucose stored in your body, and while it is only 2% of your body weight normally it uses around 25% of the total energy that your body uses. Comparing atomic energy to metabolized energy in the human body is like comparing zebras to the bible. Lets stay on topic here. [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Comparing atomic energy to metabolized energy in the human body is like comparing zebras to the bible. Lets stay on topic here. Yes, you were the one who brought up the atomic energy part. Consciousness exists as the brain and signals in the brain, all of which are dependent on metabolized energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Comparing atomic energy to metabolized energy in the human body is like comparing zebras to the bible. Lets stay on topic here. Yes, you were the one who brought up the atomic energy part. Consciousness exists as the brain and signals in the brain, all of which are dependent on metabolized energy. I didn't bring it up, it was (presumably) part of someones argument regarding the content of this thread. I already told you, we were not reffering to "energy" as metabolized energy in the human body, stop bringing it up. Eating food is no more important in this argument than knowing that the heart pumps blood. [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Consciousness is dependent on the brain's function, the brain's function is dependent on energy gained from metabolizing and that is the conservation of energy that everyone is bringing up, the energy that makes up your consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cha0sx Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think I remember an article I saw on the internet that said something abut a certain hallucinogen that is released in your brain when you die. This might cause you to see some scary/weird things in the moments before your complete death. Death is a process, not just an event/moment. Religious people might see some kind of process where they have 'gone to heaven' because of their personal beliefs in real life, even though it is not real. EDIT: The chemical is called Dimethyltryptamine(DMT), and it's only speculation that it causes some near-death experience visions and is a chemical involved in dream processes. P.S. I voted for nothingness because that's basically what happens after the process of death is over. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Consciousness is dependent on the brain's function, the brain's function is dependent on energy gained from metabolizing and that is the conservation of energy that everyone is bringing up, the energy that makes up your consciousness. What the heck, just because eating food maintains the consciousness doesn't mean it is any more important than blood pumping from your heart, which also maintains consciousness. No one is talking about metabolized energy. Just because we used the word "energy" you assumed we were, but we weren't. Stay on topic please, and this will be the last time I'm addressing the irrelevance of your posting in this thread. [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 L0rd and I are talking about much deeper things here besides food and eating off rotten flesh. As amusing as that sounds after a sudden hit of taurine.. :lol: So back to you L0rd... I believe that without a complete body, and thus without consciousness, you will be experiencing nothingness. For there to be something to experience after death, we would need to have some way of perceiving it. Separated atoms alone can't perceive in any way shape or form. If they could, and as I said earlier, we would be perceiving things all over the place, given the rapid pace that we molecules. So you're saying that we share the same energy ideology; however, you believe that particular mass has no consciousness, therefore will experience nothingness? I guess that is kind of like a box jellyfish, it has no brain yet it exists and has the capacity to kill. What I was talking about is the actual existence, in that concept, there is no such thing as nothingness. However, if we are talking about the existence experiencing nothingness, I am still researching as I don't think that one has actually been proven yet, it's still theoretical. Something I do find highly fascinating though is how the box jellyfish has 4 eyes and can process what it sees, yet has no consciousness. How can it process what it sees if it has no brain? Hmmmmm this is where it gets interesting. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 L0rd and I are talking about much deeper things here besides food and eating off rotten flesh. As amusing as that sounds after a sudden hit of taurine.. :lol: Much deeper things? Can you get a little more pretentious please? Your consciousness exists as the physical, which is your brain, and the electrical impulses which interact with different neurons in the brain. When you die your brain is no longer getting energy, therefore your consciousness no longer exists, so nothing happens after death. All of the atoms and energy that made up your consciousness will be conserved, so all parts would exist, but your consciousness doesn't exist. You won't be "experiencing" nothingness because you won't exist anymore, you will just be nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Psychological explanations are not enough to justify your argument. Statements generally aren't used when something hasn't been proven, opinions are. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 L0rd and I are talking about much deeper things here besides food and eating off rotten flesh. As amusing as that sounds after a sudden hit of taurine.. :lol: So back to you L0rd... I believe that without a complete body, and thus without consciousness, you will be experiencing nothingness. For there to be something to experience after death, we would need to have some way of perceiving it. Separated atoms alone can't perceive in any way shape or form. If they could, and as I said earlier, we would be perceiving things all over the place, given the rapid pace that we molecules. So you're saying that we share the same energy ideology; however, you believe that particular mass has no consciousness, therefore will experience nothingness? I guess that is kind of like a box jellyfish, it has no brain yet it exists and has the capacity to kill. What I was talking about is the actual existence, in that concept, there is no such thing as nothingness. However, if we are talking about the existence experiencing nothingness, I am still researching as I don't think that one has actually been proven yet, it's still theoretical. Something I do find highly fascinating though is how the box jellyfish has 4 eyes and can process what it sees, yet has no consciousness. How can it process what it sees if it has no brain? It's a mystery. Hmm interesting.. But who is the say that the brain is the only method a living creature must use to perceive the world around it. Think about single-celled organisms and bacteria. I believe these brainless living things still perceive the world, as does the box jellyfish. Much deeper things? Can you get a little more pretentious please? The very definition of the word "deeper" doesn't mean better. Wouldn't you agree that talking about the metabolization process in the human body is not as "deep" as talking about the impalpable root of human consciousness? Your consciousness exists as the physical, which is your brain, and the electrical impulses which interact with different neurons in the brain. When you die your brain is no longer getting energy, therefore your consciousness no longer exists, so nothing happens after death. All of the atoms and energy that made up your consciousness will be conserved, so all parts would exist, but your consciousness doesn't exist. Just because all the parts exist when dead from starvation as when alive and healthy, doesn't mean that these parts are the same. You must learn how the body actually takes in the food, makes it a part of the body, then absorbs its energy from there. Food is of no extra importance in this thread than any other bodily function, it is not a quintessential cause of anything. [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hmm interesting.. But who is the say that the brain is the only method a living creature must use to perceive the world around it. Think about single-celled organisms and bacteria. I believe these brainless living things still perceive the world, as does the box jellyfish Exactly! And that's what I'm so excited about. Who's to say energy doesn't perceive without consciousness if a living creature is capable of doing so? :thumbsup: I really hope there is more information around soon! The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hmm interesting.. But who is the say that the brain is the only method a living creature must use to perceive the world around it. Think about single-celled organisms and bacteria. I believe these brainless living things still perceive the world, as does the box jellyfish Exactly! And that's what I'm so excited about. Who's to say energy doesn't perceive without consciousness? :thumbsup: I really hope there is more information around soon! Haha, now reading my post I think you've actually changed my view on a couple things here. But I still don't think that after something has ceased to live, what used to make it up would still retain perception. It requires a complex structure to perceive. [hide=something I was thinking about earlier]Okay, so you know that movie A.I., where that young child robot is manufactured with a personality. After his adopted mother abandons him he searched for thousands of years, longing to get to see his mother again. In the movie he seemingly has a genuine consciousness and emotions. Who is to say that a conscious being has to be made by nature? What separates a robot with emotion and intelligent equivalent to that of a human? All the same pieces are there, why can't a "you" be formed?[/hide] [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Once upon a time the masses laughed at the possibilities of the world being anything other than flat. I am always open to possibilities :D Even the possibility that one day your theory could indeed be proven. A bit like the law of attraction, I don't care if science can't prove it but my bank account can. Why would I stop doing something that consistently brings me abundance? :lol: If keeping a piece of crystal on top of a $100.00 note kept bringing you money would you do it, despite the ridiculous looks people gave you? Hell, I'd stand on one leg and sing Brittney spears songs! I swear I heard somewhere that they can create emotions in robots now... or was I just dreaming? :? Hmm anyway this is getting really offtopic now... I swear you gave me some mental stimulation to remind me of why I liked coming here... what have you done! LOL The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I swear I heard somewhere that they can create emotions in robots now... or was I just dreaming? Hmm anyway this is getting really offtopic now... I swear you gave me some mental stimulation to remind me of why I liked coming here... what have you done! LOL I think what you are thinking about is the fact that they have made robots that have been trained to show some appropriate emotional responses to something like yelling at them. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hmm that may be it! Thanks matey I might have to read up on that some more later on. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 what have you done! LOL OH NOES, I have excited Godzilla Goddess! [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 what have you done! LOL OH NOES, I have excited Godzilla Goddess! You will pay... :lol: The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Once upon a time the masses laughed at the possibilities of the world being anything other than flat. I am always open to possibilities :D Even the possibility that one day your theory could indeed be proven. A bit like the law of attraction, I don't care if science can't prove it but my bank account can. Why would I stop doing something that consistently brings me abundance? :lol: If keeping a piece of crystal on top of a $100.00 note kept bringing you money would you do it, despite the ridiculous looks people gave you? Hell, I'd stand on one leg and sing Brittney spears songs! I swear I heard somewhere that they can create emotions in robots now... or was I just dreaming? :? Hmm anyway this is getting really offtopic now... I swear you gave me some mental stimulation to remind me of why I liked coming here... what have you done! LOL Wow, I see that your having quite the high here. Common courtesy dictates that I shouldn't speak my mind here, but... Christ. BLEH. Ya, we laughed at the idea that the world was flat. Back when we were barely founding civilization around 400 BC, when we also thought the magma coming out of mountains was caused by some guy named Vulcan drunk off some beer from some other guy named Bacchus. It's not exactly like the discovery of the roundness of the world was a theory that defied heavily backed scientific understanding, so mentioning it to back the possibility of something like the presence of a soul within a pile of carbon matter doesn't really mean much. Maybe mention another discovered truth that defied the scientific world in the past century or two, and then you'll have a point (that being, that the impossibly unlikely is not impossible). The law of the attraction is a pile of [cabbage] in scientific terms. Yes, desiring something with all your will will make it more likely to come to pass than if you don't give two [cabbage]s about it. That's nothing spiritual, that's basic logic. Yes, you're a human, and humans are built to instinctively notice patterns in their environment. But picking and choosing only those few correlations that satisfy your illogical fantasies is a weak-minded and sad way to justify them. That's why people might give you ridiculous looks. Oh, and no, it's impossible for a robot to truly experience emotions, just like they can't understand fuzzy logic. As far as science is concernced, anything to the contrary is merely an illusion. Srry 'bout that :|. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0rd Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Oh, and no, it's impossible for a robot to truly experience emotions, just like they can't understand fuzzy logic. As far as science is concernced, anything to the contrary is merely an illusion.. Okay, lets break this down. Emotion is a phenomenon that occurs when a perceiving mind reacts to the world around it. Emotion is obviously not restricted to the confine of human mind, as shown by many animals. Who is to say that if an android was programmed with human traits, reactions, and moods, that it would not feel emotion? How can you say that there is something that makes an animal emotion felt by animals, while saying that the soul doesn't exist? In that you are denying one esoteric thing, and accepting the presence of another(the presence of something "special" un-replicatable by technology)? [iNSERT "I R EATIN TEH SHIX ATM" BILL COSBY SIGNATURE GIF HERE, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Or maybe we just haven't learned how yet. If/Once we fully learn how the brain/consciousness works, chances are we'll learn how to replicate it. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But picking and choosing only those few correlations that satisfy your illogical fantasies is a weak-minded and sad way to justify them. That's why people might give you ridiculous looks. What if something is impossible to be scientifically proven? I'm not just talking about evidence which doesn't exist - I'm talking about evidence which can't exist. Perhaps her crystal method does work. How would you try to disprove that? You'll try replicating it of course, but then you have to take into account that there are an infinite amount of variables. You can't copy something like that precisely. Reb =/= Goddess, boy =/= girl, you are different ages, live in different areas, etc. Maybe the fact that you are skeptical causes it to not happen. Those are all shallow examples, but you get the idea - anything can be the cause of the success of her crystal method. We're not just talking about mixing two colors and finding out what new color they make, this is far more abstract. Unless you were to replicate her 100% (which is literally impossible) then your results won't be 100% accurate. If it works for her, it works for her. Simple as that. Science does give us a lot of answers and it helped us progress as a race immensely, but if you really think it can answer every single thing under the sun then you're just arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Wow, I see that your having quite the high here. Common courtesy dictates that I shouldn't speak my mind here, but... Christ. BLEH. Ya, we laughed at the idea that the world was flat. Back when we were barely founding civilization around 400 BC, when we also thought the magma coming out of mountains was caused by some guy named Vulcan drunk off some beer from some other guy named Bacchus. It's not exactly like the discovery of the roundness of the world was a theory that defied heavily backed scientific understanding, so mentioning it to back the possibility of something like the presence of a soul within a pile of carbon matter doesn't really mean much. Maybe mention another discovered truth that defied the scientific world in the past century or two, and then you'll have a point (that being, that the impossibly unlikely is not impossible). The law of the attraction is a pile of [cabbage] in scientific terms. Yes, desiring something with all your will will make it more likely to come to pass than if you don't give two [cabbage] about it. That's nothing spiritual, that's basic logic. Yes, you're a human, and humans are built to instinctively notice patterns in their environment. But picking and choosing only those few correlations that satisfy your illogical fantasies is a weak-minded and sad way to justify them. That's why people might give you ridiculous looks. Oh, and no, it's impossible for a robot to truly experience emotions, just like they can't understand fuzzy logic. As far as science is concernced, anything to the contrary is merely an illusion. Srry 'bout that . That particular post was addressed to l0rd stating that I believe in being open to possibilities. If you want to participate in the actual thread discussion, try reading back a few pages and commenting on those posts. Oh, and nice to see you too even if you are crabbier than usual 8-) The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Or maybe we just haven't learned how yet. If/Once we fully learn how the brain/consciousness works, chances are we'll learn how to replicate it. Which would likely lead to a type of cybernetic brain that would be a synthetic lifeform. Remember, our brains are just a collection of electric signal devices(albeit a giant collection) so there is no reason it wouldnt be possible to make a similair structure out of non biological components. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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