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Mining Sucks (round 2)


Makoto_the_Phoenix

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Yes, but for some people it may be fun to get a 99 skill, not all 99's are a "grind"

 

 

 

As an example I'm pretty sure pkndemon got 99 in strength and range without training at all, she just pked ALOT.

 

 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

 

 

I said it's ok if you have fun while doing it. Or just do it to "relax". Anyway, it's their own choice whether they want to grind or not.

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How could wasting your life away pursuing some stupid virtual number "99" be ENJOYABLE?

 

 

 

Maybe because its not exactly "wasting your life away"

 

 

 

And you get some nubs saying "nice cape" once your done.

 

 

 

You seem to keep thinking everything in runescape is useless, but if its fun, its not any more a waste of time than going to a party, or some other form of "fun"

 

I may be jumping into the debate late (you can blame/attribute that to college), but what part of Mining is fun?

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On a slightly less related topic, it seems that now the much coveted Dragon Pickaxe is now available in the game.

 

 

 

What does this do to revolutionize Mining? Well let's tally up the factors.

 

 

 

- Mining speed is increased slightly

 

- Rocks remain unchanged

 

 

 

Doesn't look like too much. We get a shiny new pickaxe for a skill that still desperately needs to be reworked.

 

 

 

I don't know why they bothered bringing in the pickaxe anyway. Oh well. All I can do now is demand that they change the way that Mining works.

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On a slightly less related topic, it seems that now the much coveted Dragon Pickaxe is now available in the game.

 

 

 

What does this do to revolutionize Mining? Well let's tally up the factors.

 

 

 

- Mining speed is increased slightly

 

- Rocks remain unchanged

 

 

 

Doesn't look like too much. We get a shiny new pickaxe for a skill that still desperately needs to be reworked.

 

 

 

I don't know why they bothered bringing in the pickaxe anyway. Oh well. All I can do now is demand that they change the way that Mining works.

 

 

 

You took the words out of my mouth. :lol:

 

 

 

A new item isn't going to help mining much. It still has to be reworked. All it does is increase mining speed slightly. Big deal.

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Wow, finally a topic with actual build-up comments instead of an idiot calling Jagex cabbage or bleeps... You have my compliments just for that.

 

 

 

The first should be self-explanatory one rock, one ore. This is how all resource gathering skills used to be, actually with Woodcutting, you only got one log per tree, and you only got one lobster/shark/tuna/what-have-you with Fishing, too. That was fine and dandy, but let's fast forward to, say, RS2? Now both Woodcutting and Fishing allow multiple resources per spot, and Mining still has the one rock, one ore policy! What gives?!

 

 

 

I view this as absolutely horrible because of the purpose of resource-gathering skills. With Fishing, you sure are going to use most every fish you catch; the option exists for you to power-train, but Monkfish are both good training and good food, so you bank them. Same with Woodcutting the option exists to power-train, but more times than not, if you're cutting Yew/Magic, you're cutting them to use the logs (sales, Fletching, Firemaking, and so forth). If you're mining Iron, I would fathom that the phrase 'banking' hasn't even crossed your mind, and rightfully so.

Actually a point I hadn't thought about. Personally I'm quite fond of mining (when done right), but I think getting as many ores from a rock as you would get from trees or fishing spots would make the skill a lote more boring/afk-able. Getting more ores from a rock would be an interesting thing to add, however, I think it shouldn't be more than 1-4 ores from lower level rocks, around 5 for coal, and 5-8 for mithril and up. That said, if they introduce this change, ores will be mined more and thus the offer will increase, causing the prices to fall.
Second, and this somewhat ties into the first the scarce amount of higher leveled ores on the map in convenient locations. I'm not talking about Runite the game would be A-OK with about twelve spots of that stuff but I'm talking about ores that would be useful to mine and smith, namely Mithril and Adamantite. Only problem? There are about 53 Adamantite ore rocks and about 78 Mithril ore rocks in the entire game (and the bulk of them are in places that make it thoroughly impractical to mine, such as the Haunted Mine). Again, what gives?!

 

 

 

This is just pathetic because of the demand of higher level ores in many Smithers' regiment. I'm level 92 Smithing; if I had the option, I would happily mine all the ore and coal myself to get 99 (sans Clay hammers), but I can't. The locations of the ore themselves make it just pointless to try to get it by yourself, or to make profit doing any Mining below 85, without resorting to Coal. Let's take, for instance, the Haunted Mine. This place in game has the largest repository of Mithril and Adamant in the game. Why don't we mine there? First, we have to have the special Mushroom light to actually see things down there, which is a pain in and of itself to acquire. Next, when we're actually done, we have to bank somewhere the closest such bank being Burgh de Rott, unless you feel like paying 100gp for every time you use the bank near Tarn's Lair.

 

 

 

That's painful. It shouldn't have to be that way.

If the first is introduced it'll be a partial solution to this problem, however I must say I am devided on this one.

 

On one side it would be nice if they added more higher level rocks, at places of better convenience, however, that would also cause an increase in offer and a fall in price. It would make the "rarer" ores more easily accessable and as a conclusion more people will also be mining, again increasing the offer.

 

 

 

I would also like to point out that there is a fair mithril mine in the wilderness, and if mining for smithing (as I have been doing for a long time a while back) you can just mine in the Mining Guild, mining the mithril as it comes availeble. There's also 3 adamantite ores just outside of the Mining Guild. I dare say that, if the oppertunity is there of course, you mine most of the mithril and adamantite as they are availeble, you can't even keep up obtaining sufficient coal to smith mentioned ores.

Third, and this is probably enough to make my Agent Orange act up power-mining! This is when a player simply mines ores for the experience, and not to benefit anything else albeit, they were forced into this corner by the Mining skill designer. I view power-mining as destroying the entire point of this skill, although I can't say I respect anyone with decent Mining any less; again, they were forced into it. I don't like the idea of making players who are serious about Mining have to sit at some god-forsaken mine for three months (*cough*GRANITE*cough*), leveling a skill to only be able to mine Runite ore, and never, ever gathering any higher level ores for the higher level Smith to use. What gives?!

 

 

 

I'll tell you again, it really wasn't the players' choice to power-mine, since the idea of mining to bank is both impractical and thoroughly tedious. I don't think that this should be. I really, really resent the idea of making me mine nothing but Granite (or any other ore in large abundance, perhaps Gold) just to get my level up. I want to be able to mine Adamant and Mithril with purpose, not to get some fancy-schmancy cape that serves NO function to Miners other than saying, 'Hey, I got 99 Mining! Woo!'

With this I also partially agree: Powermining is indeed a waste, it has no function. However, there are people that do the same with woodcutting and fishing, which also is a waste, defeating the purpose of said skills. You might want to acknowledge that in real life, ores also don't just hop by next to your most convenient building (your second point). Also, as I said, if you plan it properly, mining isn't so bad. For example, what I've done for a while was wield a form of fire staff, bring lots of nature runes and knock myself out at the Mining Guild, mining the mithril, then the coal to superheat it. Occaisionally also the adamantite, and it worked well. That said, this works better in p2p as you wouldn't have much competition there, but I dare say there's plenty to go around for 2 players doing that. Since most people focuss on mining a specific amount of one ore, this is hardly the case.

 

 

 

Maybe a strategy you'd like to explore? :D

Before I wrap up, I'm going to denounce the idea of making more higher leveled ores in the game. We'll still have the same situation we've got one ore per rock, probably buried somewhere super deep in Meiyerditch, and the only way to actually be able to mine it would be to have 94 mining and a Dragon pickaxe. Epic fail, man, just epic fail. For God's sake, we don't need higher leveled ores or a Dragon pickaxe until we fix the problem we have already, okay?
The mistake you make here is the illusion that things would remain the same (hence what I said earlier in this post). That said, I do believe a dragon pickaxe may be unnecessary, it is a nice item to include as there's also a dragon hatchet and armour.

 

 

 

That's how see it at the moment anyway..

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I TOTALLY agree with more higher-leveled rocks in better locations. The mining guild is only coal/mithril, it should have addy rocks, hell even a runite rock to work with. Mining in the hobogoblin's mine for high leveled ores equals revenants, and that equals no fun. :wall:

 

 

 

However, I TOTALLY disagree with multiple ores per rock. This is what makes mining unique from other skills. If you take this away, then it will just be like woodcutting, you keep afking for your ores. Instead, one ore per rock should be put there, so you can actually pay attention to what you are doing. This is why runecrafting is also unique - you need full attention so afkers won't try this skill much.

 

 

 

Also, runite is most certainly the best moneymaker in F2P, so banking your ores is definitely an option. Same with superheating while mining coal. You can buy your desired ores, bring a fire staff and nature runes, and then go to mining guild to mine coal. Superheat the ores into bars, bank at Falador, and repeat. So you don't have to ALWAYS not bank.

 

 

 

In addition, people drop their fish and logs in Fishing and Woodcutting. Just telling ya.

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sorta agree with everything here, but you can mine addy and mith in the desert mining camp (all the way at the end) and glory tele to al kharid to bank, then do it again. fairly easy/fast and hopping is simple there.

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On a slightly less related topic, it seems that now the much coveted Dragon Pickaxe is now available in the game.

 

 

 

What does this do to revolutionize Mining? Well let's tally up the factors.

 

 

 

- Mining speed is increased slightly

 

- Rocks remain unchanged

 

 

 

Doesn't look like too much. We get a shiny new pickaxe for a skill that still desperately needs to be reworked.

 

 

 

I don't know why they bothered bringing in the pickaxe anyway. Oh well. All I can do now is demand that they change the way that Mining works.

To be fair, they also released a new mining area with ten gold, eight Adamantite, and two Rune rocks. In this manner, you can pick up other, lesser, but still valuable, ores along with the Rune.
If the CORPORAL beast is this hard, imagine how hard a GENERAL or COLONEL beast would be. a corporal is not even an admirable rank in armies that use that ranking system.

 

Yeah, it is a pking minigame, so any arguments anybody makes will probably be biased.

The best way this will end :Everybody just says,"I'm not arguing with you anymore, goodbye."

The worst way this will end: I don't really know, psychological warfare? Worldwide thermonuclear war? Pie eating contest?

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I would like to see what you people think about my statements in my earlier post here..

 

 

 

By the way, I just went to the Heroes Guild to recharge my glories. I took a pickaxe just for the heck of it and brought nats and a lava staff. I noticed there's enough coal to be mining and superheating the Adamantite and Runite in there, with a little Mithril on the side.

 

 

 

That said, my comments on the Mining Guild still apply as the better spot when not in need of Runite.

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Peoples 3 biggest complaints about skills in runescape? Mining, Agility, Runecrafting. This is the year they said they were fixing things. They just did agility. Trust me im sure they will overhaul mining sometime. Just hold out on the skill for now.

 

quote]

 

 

 

 

 

They are yet to update it yet lol,

 

 

 

also i strongly agree with this thread.

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Some people like it, but I've never bothered to ask why. As such, I am just as confused as you as to what is fun about it.

 

 

 

I'm one of the ones who loves mining. As you can see below 99 mining is my main goal. I want it to be my first 99 followed by the other two in that order.

 

 

 

I power mined about 1 level with granite before I began banking them. I couldn't stand watching them go to waste like that. Right now I have two grinds planned. 100,000 gold ore and 65,000 Shilo Gems. Together they should get me to 99 mining. I doubt I'll be done before sometime late spring or summer of next year, but I just love mining and to a certain degree smithing.

 

 

 

For some reason there's just some charm that really grabs me. I like how my inventory fills up with pretty ores and then I love just banking them and all the colorful bars that come with them. [Did I mention I'm a pack rat to a fault?]

 

 

 

Before I sold them I had mined 2000 copper and 2000 tin ore just for the sake of having them.

 

 

 

Alright, so since I love mining so much, I've been thinking about the skill alot and wandering around from mine to mine trying out new things. So I've got some ideas here....

 

 

 

For some reason, I kind of 'like' the classical mining. The one rock one ore. But I do have a few ideas to throw out there.

 

 

 

 

 

1: Less competition. Letting rocks work like fishing spots. You don't compete with other people. Doesn't matter if the other person gets it right before you do, you can still get one of your own. As much I like to be a friendly player, I turn into a jerk whenever someone comes close to me when mining. Eeeet corrupts yuuuu and turns your heart dark. Anyway.... I can think of two ways of doing this...

 

 

 

1a: Keeping respawn times but have the rock respawn privately for each player. I think this might be a programming nightmare but I feel this is the best way to keep the classic feeling of mining in place. This will keep the number and location of rocks important as well.

 

 

 

1b: Unlimited ore per rock. I think this would make it too easy and cheapen the skill out. I wouldn't like to see this even if it were to make my grind easier. That and it would make all the good mines obsolete. I feel there is a reason why the Arzinian gold mine should be so good while other mines = not so good. If you have a single infinitely producing gold rock somewhere it kinda bites out the purpose of something cooler elsewhere, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

 

2: NPCS! I love the idea of the an NPC who's willing to help take your ore to the bank for a fee of course. Whether this be money, some of your load, or special currency like the trading sticks from the tribesman in the jungle, to the Kukkel (sp?) stuff that the lava men use. For example I wish the dwarf outside the Arzinian mine would also take tin. Or maybe any ore you dig period. If he took 6, or 3, or none that would be even better. Prices for each carrier can be related to different local quests. This shouldn't be too far fetched. I mean, not every mine needs to have any npc that's right next to the mine spot like each garden patch has a farmer and a leprechaun nearby.

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A few replies from around the horn...

 

 

 

If the first is introduced it'll be a partial solution to this problem, however I must say I am devided on this one.

 

On one side it would be nice if they added more higher level rocks, at places of better convenience, however, that would also cause an increase in offer and a fall in price. It would make the "rarer" ores more easily accessable and as a conclusion more people will also be mining, again increasing the offer.

 

 

 

I would also like to point out that there is a fair mithril mine in the wilderness, and if mining for smithing (as I have been doing for a long time a while back) you can just mine in the Mining Guild, mining the mithril as it comes availeble. There's also 3 adamantite ores just outside of the Mining Guild. I dare say that, if the oppertunity is there of course, you mine most of the mithril and adamantite as they are availeble, you can't even keep up obtaining sufficient coal to smith mentioned ores.

 

 

 

I should probably put somewhere in the main post that I have absolutely no concern for the economy or the prices of ores in this rant. If they fall that's fine. It means that they can finally get used in a more efficient manner again. It means that Smithing becomes profitable again. It also means that I as a level 92 Smith don't have to buy hundreds of thousands of iron bars (yes, iron bars) just to get levels. It would mean that I can finally put that high level Smithing to an actual use.

 

 

 

Mining in the Wilderness? What if Jagex were to move every Magic tree to the Corporeal Beast's lair? Every Shark spot inside of the Saradomin stronghold? I'm not going out to the Wilderness with those insane Revenants just to get some more Adamant for my Smithing goals. It's just not going to happen. Also, the Mining Guild's ores aren't sufficient enough to support more than one person, and they're not sufficient enough to meet the demands of any bulk miner - suppose I wanted to make 10,000 Adamant plates, for example - at 3 ores with a 10 minute respawn time, I'd be able to mine 18 of them an hour, and in about 2,778 hours (or 115.75 consecutive days), I'd be able to meet my goal. Not even realistic.

 

 

 

Lastly, not sure if it was mentioned before, but the point of mining Coal is both moot and has been made exponentially easier - both Miscellania and Coal Carts provide more coal than any one player knows what to do with.

 

 

 

With this I also partially agree: Powermining is indeed a waste, it has no function. However, there are people that do the same with woodcutting and fishing, which also is a waste, defeating the purpose of said skills. You might want to acknowledge that in real life, ores also don't just hop by next to your most convenient building (your second point). Also, as I said, if you plan it properly, mining isn't so bad. For example, what I've done for a while was wield a form of fire staff, bring lots of nature runes and knock myself out at the Mining Guild, mining the mithril, then the coal to superheat it. Occaisionally also the adamantite, and it worked well. That said, this works better in p2p as you wouldn't have much competition there, but I dare say there's plenty to go around for 2 players doing that. Since most people focuss on mining a specific amount of one ore, this is hardly the case.

 

 

 

Maybe a strategy you'd like to explore? :D

 

 

 

What I stated with respect to Woodcutting and Fishing was that the option to power-level exists with both skills. It's not a stark requirement, and in most every case, it's simple enough to train and bank your logs or fish. With Mining, the only real option you have is to power-level. The only mine that was close to a bank is Donkadan's mine (which was still pretty good even without the bank nearby), but Gold isn't the only ore we use to train with. What about Adamant and Mithril? What about Coal, which we so desperately need in bulk (and yes I know that Miscellania pretty much nerfed Coal mining)?

 

 

 

In regards to mining + superheating: No thank you. It adds more burden and effort, and creates more problems than it solves. For instance, suppose I either don't have the cash for the Natures, or I've earmarked their purpose for something else (high-alching all of those Adamant plates). Suppose a new update comes in that makes this form of Mining obsolete. Suppose that I set a goal to mine specific types of ores (example was 50,000 Adamant) and smelt them all subsequently at a later date. That strategy does not fit into the means of those kinds of players, which, as either a good thing or bad thing, is how most everyone skills - build up a stockpile of some item T and processes it when it is more convenient or economically viable to do so.

 

 

 

I've tried the mining + superheating option long ago in Classic, and I didn't like it even then (back when Mining could be considered simpler). My stance on that probably can't be changed on that anytime soon.

 

 

 

The mistake you make here is the illusion that things would remain the same (hence what I said earlier in this post). That said, I do believe a dragon pickaxe may be unnecessary, it is a nice item to include as there's also a dragon hatchet and armour.

 

 

 

That's how see it at the moment anyway..

 

 

 

I didn't assume that the Dragon Pickaxe wasn't coming out. In fact, I knew it was coming out since the dev diaries for the Dwarf quests were written. I simply stated that we have no need for such an item until the problems that exist are resolved. It's out now, and it sure as hell doesn't improve the situation - it just makes it more obvious.

 

 

 

...However, I TOTALLY disagree with multiple ores per rock. This is what makes mining unique from other skills. If you take this away, then it will just be like woodcutting, you keep afking for your ores. Instead, one ore per rock should be put there, so you can actually pay attention to what you are doing. This is why runecrafting is also unique - you need full attention so afkers won't try this skill much.

 

 

 

Also, runite is most certainly the best moneymaker in F2P, so banking your ores is definitely an option. Same with superheating while mining coal. You can buy your desired ores, bring a fire staff and nature runes, and then go to mining guild to mine coal. Superheat the ores into bars, bank at Falador, and repeat. So you don't have to ALWAYS not bank.

 

 

 

In addition, people drop their fish and logs in Fishing and Woodcutting. Just telling ya.

 

 

 

It's not about AFKing. It's not about paying attention. It is about giving Mining its purpose back. Have you actually tried to gather bulk Mithril or Adamant? The point of this skill is for us to gather ores for us to actually use in Smithing, not for us to sit out in the Desert to power-grind Granite for months on end. I'm fine with Mining being unique, so long as it's unique in a meaningful way.

 

 

 

I never did mention any changes to Runite, and I denounced the motion of mining + superheating earlier in this post.

 

 

 

To be fair, they also released a new mining area with ten gold, eight Adamantite, and two Rune rocks. In this manner, you can pick up other, lesser, but still valuable, ores along with the Rune.

 

 

 

That's true, but it doesn't change much. Although now that is the best spot in the game to mine Adamant, that doesn't mean it's not pointlessly slow.

 

 

 

@Pyrac: Not much to reply to in your post, but the key point I walked away with was improving the simplicity or ease of the skill. That's not what's intended with this rant. I said this much earlier:

 

 

 

I don't intend for the experience to increase, no; I intend for the rewards to increase. Give me ten Mithril ores from the same rock at the experience of six of them; I'm pacified. Besides, I was prepared to trade the faster ores for less experience in the first place, since it would balance itself out in the end anyway.

 

 

 

In layman's terms, increase the rewards of Mining for yourself, and not increase the ease of the skill overall.

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Now that I've had a night's sleep to think about it, you're right. I think the Varrock armor was a step in the right direction and maybe a dragon pickaxe should have a higher rate of bonus drop rate. Possibly 1-3, even up to runite ore. That would make me happy all by itself.

 

 

 

And I was sort of off topic with my post because people said they didn't understand how anyone could like mining. I wanted to try to explain why I like it.

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I should probably put somewhere in the main post that I have absolutely no concern for the economy or the prices of ores in this rant. If they fall that's fine. It means that they can finally get used in a more efficient manner again. It means that Smithing becomes profitable again. It also means that I as a level 92 Smith don't have to buy hundreds of thousands of iron bars (yes, iron bars) just to get levels. It would mean that I can finally put that high level Smithing to an actual use.

 

 

 

Mining in the Wilderness? What if Jagex were to move every Magic tree to the Corporeal Beast's lair? Every Shark spot inside of the Saradomin stronghold? I'm not going out to the Wilderness with those insane Revenants just to get some more Adamant for my Smithing goals. It's just not going to happen. Also, the Mining Guild's ores aren't sufficient enough to support more than one person, and they're not sufficient enough to meet the demands of any bulk miner - suppose I wanted to make 10,000 Adamant plates, for example - at 3 ores with a 10 minute respawn time, I'd be able to mine 18 of them an hour, and in about 2,778 hours (or 115.75 consecutive days), I'd be able to meet my goal. Not even realistic.

This strikes me a somewhat selfish. Obviously someone that doesn't buy bars or ores can't possibly have a smithing level higher than mining (especially not in F2p, mind you that this is a F2p skill we're talking about). To your example of 10,000 adamant platebodies, you would need 50,000 adamant bars for that, and a total of 350,000 ores. Would you get so many fishies or logs so much quicker? Still, what you said about the purpose of mining is true - one should have the ability to mine everything they require. Now ignoring manage thy kingdom and such, we have that (see my earlier post). What you said about the wilderness - unlike fishing and woodcutting, which are AFK skills, mining is actually possible in the wilderness.

 

 

 

Lastly, not sure if it was mentioned before, but the point of mining Coal is both moot and has been made exponentially easier - both Miscellania and Coal Carts provide more coal than any one player knows what to do with.
First, not all players have the ability to use/or use this method. Second, you can simply sell some of the coal and buy adamantite or runite. The scarcity of those ores makes people mine them for money, obviously.

 

 

 

What I stated with respect to Woodcutting and Fishing was that the option to power-level exists with both skills. It's not a stark requirement, and in most every case, it's simple enough to train and bank your logs or fish. With Mining, the only real option you have is to power-level.
My Mining level is 96, with 400k xp until 97. I have never, not ever, done powermining. That alone proves your statement (above) false, because by your logic that simply is impossible. In mining you do have the option to powertrain. You also have the option not to.

 

 

 

In regards to mining + superheating: No thank you. It adds more burden and effort, and creates more problems than it solves. For instance, suppose I either don't have the cash for the Natures, or I've earmarked their purpose for something else (high-alching all of those Adamant plates).
This strikes me as non-sense. I did it with mithril (bought most of the mithril ore too (extra costs). The up side of doing this that I could be mining in the mine longer, having the ability to mine some 100 coal before having to bank. Mind you I did all this in F2p, mined all the coal myself, superheating it in the mines, then alcing the platebodies I made. The result was profit, so this argument is false.

 

 

 

I didn't assume that the Dragon Pickaxe wasn't coming out. In fact, I knew it was coming out since the dev diaries for the Dwarf quests were written. I simply stated that we have no need for such an item until the problems that exist are resolved. It's out now, and it sure as hell doesn't improve the situation - it just makes it more obvious.
What you're saying is you don't need the item yet.. What's wrong with them adding it as they have it ready?

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Oww... harsh debate.

 

 

 

Anyway... I'm glad the dragon pickaxe came out. I've been waiting for one for awhile. Since before I quit 4 years ago. Well, it's out now. After reading this thread I agree that maybe it should have a little bonus to it like a chance of getting multiple ores up to and including runite.

 

 

 

Aside from that I don't think the core of mining should be changed. I know it doesn't follow the popular patterns that the other skills follow but that's fine for me because it's a different skill all of its own. Yeah, the grinds are a little bit harsh but I can survive them. Others do. I think that a lot of people don't like mining because its a stumbling block on their way to a bunch of 99's.

 

 

 

I don't think very many mining 99'ers actually enjoy it. They probably just wanted another 99 to show off, but there must be more people who enjoy mining then just me. I like it mostly as it is. I agree there are some shortcomings and some things that can definitely be improved but I disagree with the feeling that the entire skill sucks and needs to be completely redone.

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Before I reply to this, let me remind you of the scope of my rant.

 

 

 

My intent is not to say that the entire skill is a failure, and that it should be removed. My intent is, however, to scale the rewards of Mining such that they match the rewards of both Fishing and Woodcutting. I know you might think that this takes away the "uniqueness" of the skill, but try to keep an open mind.

 

 

 

This strikes me a somewhat selfish. Obviously someone that doesn't buy bars or ores can't possibly have a smithing level higher than mining (especially not in F2p, mind you that this is a F2p skill we're talking about). To your example of 10,000 adamant platebodies, you would need 50,000 adamant bars for that, and a total of 350,000 ores. Would you get so many fishies or logs so much quicker? Still, what you said about the purpose of mining is true - one should have the ability to mine everything they require. Now ignoring manage thy kingdom and such, we have that (see my earlier post). What you said about the wilderness - unlike fishing and woodcutting, which are AFK skills, mining is actually possible in the wilderness.

 

 

 

Fair point, not everyone really has access to MTK or the Coal Carts. But that doesn't mean that Coal Mining wasn't totally wrecked by MTK. Also, how is it selfish? If I don't want to buy anything I shouldn't have to. If I don't want to buy Iron bars I shouldn't have to. In stark reality it's probably not feasible for me to mine 300,000 ores, but should I choose to, then it shouldn't be so painful.

 

 

 

Again, I don't care that Fishing or Woodcutting are AFK skills. They're gathering skills. Their point is to gather resources. The only problem is that the resources which would benefit Smiths and Miners the most (Mith and Adamant) are so scarce, and respawn so slowly, that there's just little point to gathering them in the first place.

 

 

 

My Mining level is 96, with 400k xp until 97. I have never, not ever, done powermining. That alone proves your statement (above) false, because by your logic that simply is impossible. In mining you do have the option to powertrain. You also have the option not to.

 

 

 

You've reaped the rewards of Mining and banking every ore then? How long do you figure it's taken you from whenever you decided to start until now? Let's compare that to Woodcutting or Fishing - the former in which you already have a 99 in. Tell me - how much faster was it to get to that 99 while, at the same time, reaping all of the benefits of the skill?

 

 

 

I never did say that it was impossible to train in any other way than power-mining. What I said was it was the only real option - as in the only realistic option.

 

 

 

Please allow me to break that down for you.

 

 

 

Realistically speaking, if I want to get this skill to a high level, I have to spend my time in a god-forsaken quarry, grinding away.

 

Realistically speaking, if I want to get this skill to a high level, I have to forsake the rewards of any ore between my current level and 85.

 

Realistically speaking, if I want to get this skill to a high level, I have to spend several orders of magnitude* more time on the skill than any other.

 

 

 

See what I mean?

 

 

 

This strikes me as non-sense. I did it with mithril (bought most of the mithril ore too (extra costs). The up side of doing this that I could be mining in the mine longer, having the ability to mine some 100 coal before having to bank. Mind you I did all this in F2p, mined all the coal myself, superheating it in the mines, then alcing the platebodies I made. The result was profit, so this argument is false.

 

 

 

As I said earlier, that's a specific kind of skilling which I don't subscribe to. I prefer to gather everything in bulk, then process it in bulk. Your way may be more efficient, but that is not what this rant is about.

 

 

 

What you're saying is you don't need the item yet.. What's wrong with them adding it as they have it ready?

 

 

 

It gives Miners a false sense of hope that the skill has improved, or that this item will improve their Mining. Sorry, but I sure don't like being deceived when it comes to this.

 

 

 

*Order of Magnitude: Basically a multiple of 10^n; for instance, 3 orders of magnitude would mean 10^3, or 1,000.

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Again, I don't care that Fishing or Woodcutting are AFK skills. They're gathering skills. Their point is to gather resources. The only problem is that the resources which would benefit Smiths and Miners the most (Mith and Adamant) are so scarce, and respawn so slowly, that there's just little point to gathering them in the first place.
People gather them anyway, as said there are ways to obtain them in sufficient amounts, just not the way you would prefer. That said, I do agree with you that rocks containing mithril, adamantite and runite should contain more than one ore. This not being the case with lower level ores is a good thing if you ask me; I'd absolutely hate mining to become another AFK skill.

 

 

 

You've reaped the rewards of Mining and banking every ore then? How long do you figure it's taken you from whenever you decided to start until now? Let's compare that to Woodcutting or Fishing - the former in which you already have a 99 in. Tell me - how much faster was it to get to that 99 while, at the same time, reaping all of the benefits of the skill?
I feel I have, but I am one of those crazy people that enjoy mining. The point in training a skill isn't merely its function, but it should also be, to put it in crude simplicity, fun. :D

 

 

 

Comparing it with woodcutting or fishing, I do enjoy training mining for a longer period of time more than either woodcutting or fishing. That may sound strange since I mastered woodcutting and not mining (yet), but it's true. Sure mining takes longer, but you can say the same about skills like farming for example, which you could count among the gathering skills.

 

 

 

In all honesty, I trained woodcutting mostly while watching tv shows on my computer or when I had a full clanchat/friends to talk with or while busy on these forums, and I fish when I do homework (I'd need the computer anyways for math and such). Mining is a skill I can just set my mind to and go for. Nothing like a good old bit of mining to pass the time and gather some bars for smithing. This also is what makes mining an unique skill. :thumbsup: ...But that's just me I guess.. Call me crazy because of it. :lol:

 

 

 

As I said earlier, that's a specific kind of skilling which I don't subscribe to. I prefer to gather everything in bulk, then process it in bulk. Your way may be more efficient, but that is not what this rant is about.
I see what you mean, but that doesn't mean the skill is nerfed. It merely allows one to draw the conclusion that you don't agree with it. Though if I may give you a tip: you might want to buy the adamantite ore anyway, and obtain the coal through your chosen methods.

 

 

 

It gives Miners a false sense of hope that the skill has improved, or that this item will improve their Mining. Sorry, but I sure don't like being deceived when it comes to this.
I'm a miner and I can't find myself fitting this example. Personally I don't agree that it isn't an improvement. Sure, it's small, but at least they released it. If you ask me it should have been released along with the dragon hatchet. It's also unfair to assume Jagex released the dragon pickaxe to deceive you, or anyone else. -.- I'm sure they see it as an improvement too, and in this case I agree with that.

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angel2w.gif Tip.It Website Crew Leader

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I love it how Jafje comes outa nowhere and answers my questions

Hehe now we know what real life does...drugs, drugs, more drugs. Thank god we are addicted to something that won't kill us.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, now that we're back on a new forum, and I finally found the time to read and reply to some posts through the maze of Calculus and Prolog, I'm going to critique the latest Mining update, Living Rock Caverns.

 

Truth be told, this place is the best update to Mining in a long, long time. You can now click on a single rock, and receive more than one rock in return. This makes training the skill so much less of a drag, and it also means that more coal and gold can come into the game in a more effective manner. There is a balance, which is alright, I suppose - the rocks have these guardians which are, at times, difficult to avoid, and can pack a wallop if you're unprepared. Overall, this update is a step in the right direction for Mining. Implementing higher leveled concentrated ore would be definitely beneficial to the game.

 

--

 

Again, I don't care that Fishing or Woodcutting are AFK skills. They're gathering skills. Their point is to gather resources. The only problem is that the resources which would benefit Smiths and Miners the most (Mith and Adamant) are so scarce, and respawn so slowly, that there's just little point to gathering them in the first place.

 

People gather them anyway, as said there are ways to obtain them in sufficient amounts, just not the way you would prefer. That said, I do agree with you that rocks containing mithril, adamantite and runite should contain more than one ore. This not being the case with lower level ores is a good thing if you ask me; I'd absolutely hate mining to become another AFK skill.

 

Whether or not it became another AFK skill is irrelevant to the scope of the rant itself. All I want for Mining to do is to produce more ores, which in turn, means that Smithing is no longer an arcane thing for only those with PHats to do. Truthfully, changing Mining such that the rewards increased over the actual experience would tie in a lot better than just increasing the rewards - did you read the first page? I made a statement to the effect that if I were to receive 3/5ths more ore, I'd accept 3/5ths less experience. Perhaps that would appease the fear over an AFKable skill?

 

 

You've reaped the rewards of Mining and banking every ore then? How long do you figure it's taken you from whenever you decided to start until now? Let's compare that to Woodcutting or Fishing - the former in which you already have a 99 in. Tell me - how much faster was it to get to that 99 while, at the same time, reaping all of the benefits of the skill?

 

I feel I have, but I am one of those crazy people that enjoy mining. The point in training a skill isn't merely its function, but it should also be, to put it in crude simplicity, fun. :D

 

Comparing it with woodcutting or fishing, I do enjoy training mining for a longer period of time more than either woodcutting or fishing. That may sound strange since I mastered woodcutting and not mining (yet), but it's true. Sure mining takes longer, but you can say the same about skills like farming for example, which you could count among the gathering skills.

 

In all honesty, I trained woodcutting mostly while watching tv shows on my computer or when I had a full clanchat/friends to talk with or while busy on these forums, and I fish when I do homework (I'd need the computer anyways for math and such). Mining is a skill I can just set my mind to and go for. Nothing like a good old bit of mining to pass the time and gather some bars for smithing. This also is what makes mining an unique skill. :thumbsup: ...But that's just me I guess.. Call me crazy because of it. :lol:

 

Unique, yes. I will definitely agree that Mining is and will still remain to be unique. But, I still contend that the rewards from the skill could use a boost. You calling it fun is probably not a correct analogy, as I did the same thing in March when I found Smelting 26,000 Iron ores to be "fun" - but only after I had decided to join MMG's chat. The skill then was only fun when you made it fun. Wouldn't you say that all skills are like that, if you can find a glimmer of enjoyment not from skilling, but doing the stuff while skilling?

 

It gives Miners a false sense of hope that the skill has improved, or that this item will improve their Mining. Sorry, but I sure don't like being deceived when it comes to this.

 

I'm a miner and I can't find myself fitting this example. Personally I don't agree that it isn't an improvement. Sure, it's small, but at least they released it. If you ask me it should have been released along with the dragon hatchet. It's also unfair to assume Jagex released the dragon pickaxe to deceive you, or anyone else. -.- I'm sure they see it as an improvement too, and in this case I agree with that.

 

It's probably a bad idea to jump to the conclusion that I'm being misled. But I don't really see how I can really explain it; for those with only 61 Mining, there's really no difference between a Dragon Pick and a Rune Pick for their powermining. I haven't tested it with the new concentrated ores yet (but I did with Granite/Sandstone/Gold), but there's really not much of a speed boost between the two pickaxes. It exists now, but I just don't see why they couldn't have waited until Mining was at a point in which you could benefit from higher metal pickaxes.

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When I was F2P, me and a friend would run like a mining business; where I'd mine all the ores then give them to him, he'd then smelt them, and then sell them to a shop or other players and I got half the profit. This was about 6 months before December 2007 so there was no trade limits. Anyway it got me to about 60 mining and made me good profit for F2P. But the trade limit came which stopped that (it was about the only thing which I missed after the Free Trade and Wilderness removal).

 

Anyway, that's the only time mining or smithing was fun for me. It's now just a pain to train (lol). The only problem I can see with your idea is adamant bars, which would fall in price; making Aviansies less profitable, which would generate a lot of complaints from rangers. Either way great ideas.

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