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Your standing on religion


xAxelx

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I applaud that you've given some thought to the matter! Keep your eyes and mind open to all possibilities, because this type of question is not something you can just decide and then move onto the next question. It's a life-long question.

For it is the greyness of dusk that reigns.

The time when the living and the dead exist as one.

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My family is religious, especially my mom and I've been going to Catholic schools so I can't really deny my religion to anyone. Besides, I also usher for our church.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not as religious as my gf though and I sometimes call her 'church girl" just to get on her sometimes :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know why people don't want to go to church, I've seen so many hot women go there, if it's an incentive to some people of course :wink:

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Okay well if we can do this in a mature fashion...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I don't believe in a God. There may be a "higher power", but until I see him/her with my own eyes, I stick with my belief that there is no God. I'm an atheist, and I hate when preachy people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hate people who use their faith to become "better" than others. I hate people who use their religion to put other people down. I hate people who use it to try to govern how someone else should live. And I definitely hate people that try to combine religion and state (unless of course, 100% of the people they are governing believe in the same ideals).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But if you use your faith to enhance the lives of you and your family, then I don't mind. People should have the choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could talk on and on, but I won't do that. I've done it before and it's caused a lot of drama lol. :lol:

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I'm an atheist.

 

 

 

Stupidiest thing about christianity is how they say

 

 

 

"you're a bad person if you don't believe in god. and you go to hell!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. That's the main reason I'm not religious. I could go on and on about this, but I'll just get pissed off and probably start a flame war. Besides, most of the Christians I know don't really believe in hell anyway. And most of the ideas about compassion and forgiveness I really like, and I try to live that way anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm kinda agnostic, leaning towards not believing in God. I think religion's great for giving people hope and direction when they would otherwise be really lonely and helpless, but for me I don't see any reason why any religion is anything other than mythology. I still respect other people's beliefs though, so long as they respect mine; I fully appreciate I could be completely wrong in my ideas.

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Okay, we all know what happens as soon as we actually start discussing other people's opinions, I'll try my best not to have that happening (I'm quite sure it wouldn't be insane who'd reply in such a way, but of course we're not the only ones on this forum...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, "Christians" who do not follow this, pervert the belief, and pervert it for others, so that people who do not believe, see Christianity as the jerks that ruin it, and give it a bad name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's principle vs. application, I've said it a million times, but this is the first time I've said it before I have to - I'm saying it out of prevention of the "oh man, look at the crusades, religion sucks" - because I hate those illogical arguments, for they say nothing of the religion they are bashing, and everything of the losers who aren't following the religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, I agree with the unquoted part of your post :P. Which is that the concept of a loving and caring God is wonderful. While I also agree that the crusades or specific people (pope?) should not be seen as representatives of all Christians, I don't like the way you talk about them here. You basically say there is some kind of 'true' Christianity, and everyone who doesn't follow that gives the 'true' Christianity a bad name. As we've had these kinds of topics before, no matter how long ago, I guess you might remember my argument: you cannot know for sure what 'true' Christianity is. Assuming that nobody really knows God personally enough to consider how He meant everything to be, there is no way we could know what the 'right' way of doing things is. Ergo, I think you should refrain from saying 'person X is a pervert Christian, because he doesn't follow 'true' Christianity as I see it.'. Examples are:

 

 

 

A) I don't believe in the Holy Trinity. Does that mean I'm not a real Christian?

 

 

 

B) I don't believe that Jesus really multiplied 2 bread and 5 fish at the lake in Galilee. Does that mean I'm not a real Christian?

 

 

 

C) I think people should celebrate birthdays and be administered blood transfusions if need be. (red.: Jehovah's witnesses, for example, would disagree with this). Does that mean I'm not a 'real' Christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me, I think the distinguishing between 'real' or 'unreal' Christians is of little use. Personally, I believe that God will judge you on your actions, not on your association with a certain belief. As I voiced it when talking to a brother in Taiz̮̩̉̉ about this: It seems odd to me that a God of Love and Compassion would disallow 80% of the world population into His Kingdom and/or eternal life (whichever you believe in/want to call it) just because they didn't worship Him. Surely, amongst those 80% there are people who have been good people, maybe even better than some of the 20% who call themselves Christian? (See also Matthew 25:34 and onwards)

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heh, I think all these discussion with bible quotes and so are pretty dull, it always comes down to the same question which is answered by a certain belief.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe in God, and I pray, and I go to church with Christmas and Easter, but that's about it. I'm not really a serious follower (serious in the way of going to church every week and knowledge), and I can't see why God would like me on my knees every sundaymorning at 10:00. I believe in God, but I live my own life. :) And I think God is okay with that, otherwise he wouldn't have give me the possibility to think for my own.

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When it comes to religion I have a step by step line of reason as to why I believe what I believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step 1: I notice that there is life on earth(obviously).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step 2: If earth was once a gaseous cloud that was pulled together by gravity and solidified into a sphere, it at one time didn't have life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step 3: The conclusion that I draw from the previous two steps is that at some point, life started.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step 4: Now I must consider how that life may have begun. Due to the fact that science falls short(in my opinion) of convincing me that life started through abiogensis and has continued to evolve since, I conclude that some higher power influenced the development of life on this planet. There really arn't any other options, either life started without outside influence, or it did start with outside influence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step 5: Due to my conclusion that there is a higher power, I wish to learn of this higher power and study religion that seeks to explain various higher powers in hopes of one day understanding why I am here and what purpose if any my life has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To Hannibal,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I do agree with some of the points you made, I have to disagree with one thing you discussed. There may not be a text book definition of "true christians" but that doesn't mean that there can't be christians that don't do things correctly. Being christian is defined as "Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus." and since the bible is the only text we have that teaches of jesus it's rather hard to believe in Jesus and his teachings, but not in what the bible says when it's the only place we can learn about his teachings. Thus if you believe in Jesus to the point where you would consider yourself a christian you should also believe in the bible because Jesus taught from the scriptures. If then you don't follow what the bible says you arn't really following the teachings of jesus and couldn't consider yourself a "christian."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you said though God Judges on actions, not religious affiliation. The bible confirms this at Revelation 20: 12, 13 "And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it was the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha'des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds." So we agree here, christian or not, "true christian" or "false christian", according to the bible what matters is our deeds, not our title.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I also don't like when people try to force religion or beliefs on me. I personally feel that people should be able to practice whatever beliefs they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of other people. I don't force my opinions of religion on others and I generally expect the same respect from others. If people want to know my opinions, I give them, if they don't, I drop the subject.

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Okay, we all know what happens as soon as we actually start discussing other people's opinions, I'll try my best not to have that happening (I'm quite sure it wouldn't be insane who'd reply in such a way, but of course we're not the only ones on this forum...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, "Christians" who do not follow this, pervert the belief, and pervert it for others, so that people who do not believe, see Christianity as the jerks that ruin it, and give it a bad name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's principle vs. application, I've said it a million times, but this is the first time I've said it before I have to - I'm saying it out of prevention of the "oh man, look at the crusades, religion sucks" - because I hate those illogical arguments, for they say nothing of the religion they are bashing, and everything of the losers who aren't following the religion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, I agree with the unquoted part of your post :P. Which is that the concept of a loving and caring God is wonderful. While I also agree that the crusades or specific people (pope?) should not be seen as representatives of all Christians, I don't like the way you talk about them here. You basically say there is some kind of 'true' Christianity, and everyone who doesn't follow that gives the 'true' Christianity a bad name. As we've had these kinds of topics before, no matter how long ago, I guess you might remember my argument: you cannot know for sure what 'true' Christianity is. Assuming that nobody really knows God personally enough to consider how He meant everything to be, there is no way we could know what the 'right' way of doing things is. Ergo, I think you should refrain from saying 'person X is a pervert Christian, because he doesn't follow 'true' Christianity as I see it.'. Examples are:

 

 

 

A) I don't believe in the Holy Trinity. Does that mean I'm not a real Christian?

 

 

 

B) I don't believe that Jesus really multiplied 2 bread and 5 fish at the lake in Galilee. Does that mean I'm not a real Christian?

 

 

 

C) I think people should celebrate birthdays and be administered blood transfusions if need be. (red.: Jehovah's witnesses, for example, would disagree with this). Does that mean I'm not a 'real' Christian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me, I think the distinguishing between 'real' or 'unreal' Christians is of little use. Personally, I believe that God will judge you on your actions, not on your association with a certain belief. As I voiced it when talking to a brother in Taiz̮̩̉̉ about this: It seems odd to me that a God of Love and Compassion would disallow 80% of the world population into His Kingdom and/or eternal life (whichever you believe in/want to call it) just because they didn't worship Him. Surely, amongst those 80% there are people who have been good people, maybe even better than some of the 20% who call themselves Christian? (See also Matthew 25:34 and onwards)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, note how I gave the crusades as an example - like, murders, and using "God told me to" without proof, as justification. I was using extreme examples, and I think that's the only thing I was applying my point to. Obviously non-issues like 'sprinkling vs. submerging baptism' aren't going to matter at all. That's not what I was referring to - my apologies for not making it more clear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And about people who live good lives? The Bible makes it very clear, that we are to live life dependent on God for our salvation (read Romans 4, Abraham was justified by faith, not works). Of course faith produces "good lives", but first we must have faith in Christ. Of course the name "Jesus Christ" does not matter, it is the attitude of dependency on God, the attitude that we need Him for us to live our "good lives".

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And about people who live good lives? The Bible makes it very clear, that we are to live life dependent on God for our salvation (read Romans 4, Abraham was justified by faith, not works). Of course faith produces "good lives", but first we must have faith in Christ. Of course the name "Jesus Christ" does not matter, it is the attitude of dependency on God, the attitude that we need Him for us to live our "good lives".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since you mention the letter to the Romans, have you also read Romans 8? I had lectures about it for 1 week when I was in Taiz̮̩̉̉. It says that people live either in the Spirit of God and Jesus Christ, or in sinfulness (so quite the same as living with faith, and being forgiven, or living without and being sinful). It also says implicitly that the Spirit lives in everyone who does not knowingly reject God's mercy (we are all children of God, the Spirit lives in us because we are children of God). Hence, everyone who does not knowingly, willingly, renounces God's mercy will be saved. The brother who gave the lecture explicitly pointed out that one should not assume from this text that only people who explicitly believe in God have the Spirit - the Spirit lives in you regardless of everything else, as long as you do not renounce it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

xyrec: this is an example of what I just said: insane and I seem to disagree, though we both read the bible, we read it in different ways. It's impossible to specify one 'true' way to read it, even if not simply because of translating issues, then because of interpretational differences. Heck, Jehovah's witnesses read the bible. They conclude from it that blood contains a person's soul, and thus blood transfusions are transferring your soul - woah, we shouldn't have that!

 

 

 

In other words: it's not as simple as saying 'the bible is the only thing we need, and we will all believe the same', nor can one say 'there is only one way to read the bible, so everyone who does not read it exactly as I do is a fraud Christian' (I know you didn't say that, I'm just pointing things out :-) )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I should note that by any definition, I'm a very liberal Christian (if you still regard me as a Christian, anyway). I'm still annoyed that I missed the service my church held two weeks ago, with a Muslim imam doing the preach (ie the bible explanation). We also had one of our reverants doing that in a Mosque :). It's good to learn about eachothers religions like that, it kills off some prejudices we may have, and it's good to hear a fresh opinion in any case :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Incidentally... I've never really heard people on here speak out about Islam - are there any Muslims around on TIF? :) I'm curious about a few things. For example, some denominations in Christianity are used to praying to Christ or to saints - does Islam have similar things? Or do you only pray to God (Allah)? Furthermore, am I correct in saying you recognise Jesus as being sent by God? (Though, I think you consider him a prophet, and not the son of God, IIRC? What about Mohammed, do you regard him as being a son of God?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about other religions? I've always known there are Christians, Jews and lots of Atheists on this forum - are there any Hindi (sp?) or Buddhists? :)

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What about other religions? I've always known there are Christians, Jews and lots of Atheists on this forum - are there any Hindi (sp?) or Buddhists? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i studied a bit of buddhism in my thought group at school, but we never really went in depth into it. theres no "god" or anything, some people think that you are supposed to worship buddha, but you arent. buddha is just a person who achieved enlightment, so if you achieve enlightment you are a buddha. the buddha that everyone refers to is just the first one to achieve the buddha name, he was the first to achieve enlightment or nirvana, whatever you want to call it. he was also the main teacher of buddhism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thats about where my knowledge ends, i know a little more but not much. and i dont feel like typing it because im not even sure what i said was exactly right. anyways, wikipedia almost always has good info, and there buddha page is long, so it probably explains it better than i could.

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I'm not a Christian, I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a Jew, I'm not a Buddha and I'm not a Hindi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that doesn't mean I'm not religious. I'm not an athiest. I have beliefs to the meaning of this life and whatever lies upon it. I take certain things which are principally another religions belief and abide by it my own way.

 

 

 

I have my beliefs and keep them to myself. Why would I spread them when they could be totally innappropiate for you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, y'all are welcome to practice your own beliefs and religion and I have no problem with you, infact I'm happy you have something you wish to follow. So long as it doesn't oppress what I want to put my faith into, long may you continue. Naturally, I do the same for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But this papa won't preach because I don't need others to believe for me to be content. For knowing that I'm alive and living true to my heart is all the belief I'll ever need.

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Incidentally... I've never really heard people on here speak out about Islam - are there any Muslims around on TIF? Smile I'm curious about a few things. For example, some denominations in Christianity are used to praying to Christ or to saints - does Islam have similar things? Or do you only pray to God (Allah)? Furthermore, am I correct in saying you recognise Jesus as being sent by God? (Though, I think you consider him a prophet, and not the son of God, IIRC? What about Mohammed, do you regard him as being a son of God?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea there a few Muslims around here, me being one :) Not too many others though. In reply to your curiosities:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Monotheisim is one of the five pillars of our faith which affirms that there is one God who has absolute power and created everything. HE is the original cause at the start of the cause-effect chain but HE is the exception to having no cause, otherwise the chain would be endless. So we only worship HIM directly :) There are many figures whou would be regarding as saintly, and indeed the prophets and others are regarding as infallible - e.g. no mistakes - but they are not worshipped as they are human like everyone else, and ultimately, created by Allah HIMSELF.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- As for Jesus (peace be upon him), we recognise him as one of the prophets of Allah, of which there were 124,000 with Muhammad (p.b.u.h) being the very last. However, there are 5 prophets in particular who are given special status because they came with holy books of whom Jesus is one. And because of the earlier mentioned belief in montheism which is an important foundation of everything - he can have no children or dependants etc so Jesus is not the son of God, although his birth is a miracle of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- As for Prophet Muhammad (pb.u.h), as I said above, he is the final prophet who came with the message of God to the people. However, he is succeeded by 'Imams' (not in the usual understanding) who are divinely chosen just as the prophets were - so there is always a divine representative of God on the Earth until the world ends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good source for further research is http://www.al-islam.org :)

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well, before I say anything (i've yet to read all the replys to this thread, so this is my own thoughts) I'm going to quote something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As humans, we have set a rule that say's the above. This in it's self can confuse a lot of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If... matter couldn't be created, than how did the universe come about. And don't say the big bang, because where did the stuff for the big bang come about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But.. if you take it from the religious stand point and say "god created it all", how was god created? How was anything created in fact. It's all a very confusing deal if you keep that simple rule/law in mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

however, there must have been something around it. For me, I would have to say there is a god. However, I guess you could say my views on it are slightly different:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Evolution. Yes, it happened, we have plenty of proof. No, god didn't create the earth, but perhaps he created what caused the big bang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-The Bible. To me, it's just a good book with plenty of good moral stories in it. I truly don't think that 95% of that stuff actualy happened. Yeah, it's there to teach, not to be a history book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, i'm going to talk about something slightly different. As children we are taught to belive, or not to belive in god/ect. At an early age our parrents basicly control our beliefs. However, as we grow older , much like santa and the easter bunny, we start to make our own decisions about whats real and not real. Most children in the example I gave soon find out that the 2 are not real.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But what about god in general? Usualy the idea is pressed on into a child's head, that god exists or does not exist. Thus, it's not untill they grow up more, possibly in their middle teens i'd have to say, that they start realy making their own decisions. For most it's a matter of a few things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Events in your life. A lot of times a bad tragedy can bring people to religion. Religion in my idea is also a comfort, knowing that something else is waiting for you after you die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-How "strict" their parrents were. Basicly said, if you had a very loosly religious family, I.E maybe went to church each week or on holiday's then you might start to think of your own belifs. But if your family was realy religious, you might be completly against the whole thing (in spite) or for it (because they have been taught that way)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so basicly said, like Bubsa pointed out I wouldn't call my self any of the above. I have to say that I live my own life. Yes, as of now I am considered a Christian for I am still under legal custody of my parrents. I go to church on special ocasions, holidays and the likes, but that's about it. I prefer to belive what I wish based off of what I have observed.

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Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well i read somewhere that for all practical purposes that is true, but its not quite exactly true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when two electrons interact with each other, something really small (smaller than an electron), so small it is insignifigant to metion, pops out of nothing, acts from one electron to the next, then goes back to non existing, in such a small time frame that its insignifigant. actually i just remember that little bit, and there was a bit more to it. but i just looked on google and couldn't find anything on it, so i may have just made it up... :lol:

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Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well i read somewhere that for all practical purposes that is true, but its not quite exactly true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when two electrons interact with each other, something really small (smaller than an electron), so small it is insignifigant to metion, pops out of nothing, acts from one electron to the next, then goes back to non existing, in such a small time frame that its insignifigant. actually i just remember that little bit, and there was a bit more to it. but i just looked on google and couldn't find anything on it, so i may have just made it up... :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, actuly what you are talking about is anti mater. It comes into existance for no apperant reason sometimes, then just goes away. they found it a few times in labs. It had some connection with the big bang, but i forget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also teh thing you are refering to Nadril, is actuly to do with energy. energy cannot be created or dystroyed.

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Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It isn't matter, but ENERGY that cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be converted into another type of energy. :wink:

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Matter can not be created nor destroyed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It isn't matter, but ENERGY that cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be converted into another type of energy. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oops. Lol I thougth something sounded stupid... well there goes half my arugment :lol:

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Also teh thing you are refering to Nadril, is actuly to do with energy. energy cannot be created or dystroyed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It isn't matter, but ENERGY that cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be converted into another type of energy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

actually, no you are both wrong. matter IS energy. e=mc^2.

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