What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat Levels have always been a general representation. They are merely a guide for potential, not a completely balanced equation. It will still be a general guide to your combat potential.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat Levels have always been a general representation. They are merely a guide for potential, not a completely balanced equation. It will still be a general guide to your combat potential.

But if a combat level isn't correlated with herblore at ALL, it is not even attempting to represent ability.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat Levels have always been a general representation. They are merely a guide for potential, not a completely balanced equation. It will still be a general guide to your combat potential.

But if a combat level isn't correlated with herblore at ALL, it is not even attempting to represent ability.

 

So? Then you will have an advantage over people with the same combat level, which is good, because you put more effort into the game.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

You, sir, win this discussion.

 

You forgot about low level pures. Or at least, the alleged low leveled pures. Your combat ability as a pure is in no way reflective of your combat level; a level 37 pure could make mincemeat out of a level 37 non-pure. Same as a level 47 pure could with other non-pures around its level.

 

Potions have never represented combat ability before, and it's unlikely they ever will. While we use Super sets all the time, it doesn't mean that my combat capabilities are any higher than a 130. If I used the Extreme potions, the same would still be true. After all, the effects do wear off, whereas combat level is more permanent.

 

In layman's terms, don't take combat level as combat ability. Pures have used this false belief to thrive in PvP combat for almost a decade.

The lazy bastards are back -.-. I know PvP may have SEEMED to be unbalanced at the time, but seriously how many players have 80+ Herblore for these potions? Not many. And even if they did, I reckon they'd own you anyway (AGS, D Claws, you pick the weapon of choice over 40M).

 

Why, Jagex? WHY?

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat Levels have always been a general representation. They are merely a guide for potential, not a completely balanced equation. It will still be a general guide to your combat potential.

But if a combat level isn't correlated with herblore at ALL, it is not even attempting to represent ability.

 

So? Then you will have an advantage over people with the same combat level, which is good, because you put more effort into the game.

So? Would you be saying the same thing if magic wasn't counted to combat levels, and a level 10 could ice barrage you? Of course not. This used to be the case (not the ice barrage part), and Jagex revamped the combat formula with RS2 to include magic into the formula.

 

It is imperative that combat levels reflect combat ability. If these potions were to be allowed in dangerous PvP, herblore must be factored into combat level.

 

PS: I've also long supported defense being less influential in the combat formula.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat Levels have always been a general representation. They are merely a guide for potential, not a completely balanced equation. It will still be a general guide to your combat potential.

But if a combat level isn't correlated with herblore at ALL, it is not even attempting to represent ability.

 

So? Then you will have an advantage over people with the same combat level, which is good, because you put more effort into the game.

So? Would you be saying the same thing if magic wasn't counted to combat levels, and a level 10 could ice barrage you? Of course not. This used to be the case (not the ice barrage part), and Jagex revamped the combat formula with RS2 to include magic into the formula.

 

It is imperative that combat levels reflect combat ability. If these potions were to be allowed in dangerous PvP, herblore must be factored into combat level.

 

 

Well obviously you're recieving too much of an advantage for the Effort you put in. I believe that the Effort of gaining 90 Herblore and having an advantage over people of similar combat level but with a lack of Herblore is acceptable. The only part of the update that I concede may be too much of a reward would be the Magic Potion, which I fully support an incremental "Super Magic Potion" that gives a 15-20%.

 

 

PS: I've also long supported defense being less influential in the combat formula.

 

 

I'd far perfer to make Defense more representative of its current contribution to the Combat Formula instead. (In other words, make it more useful)

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

You, sir, win this discussion.

 

It has never really totally represented your combat ability. If you were hiding AGS it was never showed by your combat level, but it greatly effects your ability. If you had agility as stated before it never showed, but it gave you a very good advantage against someone else if you were planning on running. So really never represented their ability in combat from the first place. However, I see that post sides have valid arguments and they are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. It however is important that instead of making a decision because someone is crying about it that Jagex actually looks at the facts and makes a decision not based on majority but on what's right. I think that is what most of us that are against this change are after. I'd hate to see a trend to start that if I whine and spam hard enough that I will get what I want.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

 

Combat levels representing combat ability has been void ever since the first pure account was made.

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

You, sir, win this discussion.

 

It has never really totally represented your combat ability. If you were hiding AGS it was never showed by your combat level, but it greatly effects your ability. If you had agility as stated before it never showed, but it gave you a very good advantage against someone else if you were planning on running. So really never represented their ability in combat from the first place. However, I see that post sides have valid arguments and they are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. It however is important that instead of making a decision because someone is crying about it that Jagex actually looks at the facts and makes a decision not based on majority but on what's right. I think that is what most of us that are against this change are after. I'd hate to see a trend to start that if I whine and spam hard enough that I will get what I want.

 

First of all, thank you for phrasing my argument in a more cohesive manner.

 

The problem is that for a while Jagex had the opposite problem; they seemed to ignore what the players (Pkers?) wanted. Jagex cannot cave into peer pressure, but as you said, they need to begin a trend of educated, well-balanced updates, and should listen to suggestions from their community (and distingush between well-thought out feedback to ranting).

 

So, who here would like to see more skill-combat integration? Perhaps a Slash attack bonus (not damage, simply accuracy) from Woodcutting? Crush bonus from Mining? A boost in Fire magic from firemaking? New familars from Slayer? A chance of cutting two logs at once from Strength? A defense bonus from defense?

So combat level will be further devalued? Why don't we just remove combat level because somebody with lvl 3 combat and 99 in every other skill might be able to end up beating someone with lvl 60 combat the way the trend is going.

 

You realize that is what will happen if updates like this continue.

 

I mean if each skill gives a simple +6 bonus in attack/str/defense your looking at +90 to your stats even if you are at lvl 3 combat.

So combat level will be further devalued? Why don't we just remove combat level because somebody with lvl 3 combat and 99 in every other skill might be able to end up beating someone with lvl 60 combat the way the trend is going.

 

You realize that is what will happen if updates like this continue.

 

Extremes my friend, extremes. Combat will still be the primary role of... combat, but is it a terrible thing for other skills to be integrated into it? I'm not suggesting "ZOMG 99 WOODCUTTING 100% SLASH ATTACK ACCURACY", which you seem to believe I am. Because that (can anyone count how many times I've said this) would not be representative of the effort put into it etc. etc.

 

EDIT: In before Morningrise333 and Master_Smither post far more articulate versions of my argument.

If each skill gives a simple +6 like herblore now does then you get +90 in your stats.

If each skill gives a simple +6 like herblore now does then you get +90 in your stats.

 

There are other ways of boosting combat besides giving bonuses, and of course you assume that all of the skills give +6 in everything.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with the 40% magic boost from each skill. Only would give a 15500% bonus. It would certainly make Magic competitive with Melee and Range. :P

What is the point of a combat level if it no longer represents your combat ability?

You, sir, win this discussion.

 

It has never really totally represented your combat ability. If you were hiding AGS it was never showed by your combat level, but it greatly effects your ability. If you had agility as stated before it never showed, but it gave you a very good advantage against someone else if you were planning on running. So really never represented their ability in combat from the first place. However, I see that post sides have valid arguments and they are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. It however is important that instead of making a decision because someone is crying about it that Jagex actually looks at the facts and makes a decision not based on majority but on what's right. I think that is what most of us that are against this change are after. I'd hate to see a trend to start that if I whine and spam hard enough that I will get what I want.

 

First of all, thank you for phrasing my argument in a more cohesive manner.

 

The problem is that for a while Jagex had the opposite problem; they seemed to ignore what the players (Pkers?) wanted. Jagex cannot cave into peer pressure, but as you said, they need to begin a trend of educated, well-balanced updates, and should listen to suggestions from their community (and distingush between well-thought out feedback to ranting).

 

So, who here would like to see more skill-combat integration? Perhaps a Slash attack bonus (not damage, simply accuracy) from Woodcutting? Crush bonus from Mining? A boost in Fire magic from firemaking? New familars from Slayer? A chance of cutting two logs at once from Strength? A defense bonus from defense?

 

The thing the makes Runescape successful is it's diversity. By giving people who skill too many benefits in PVP Jagex will discourage plain combat training, which is not bad by any means. It's finding the balance between giving benefits to skillers and not leaving the pkers left in the dust if they don't skill. Things like the agility bonuses in PVP are subtle yet needed for many people to function properly. It's up to Jagex (they are the experts aren't they ;)) to decide really and I think they didn't do a very good job with this update at all. They caved in under pressure which is not the image they want to send they high level players who praised the herblore update?

 

The thing the makes Runescape successful is it's diversity. By giving people who skill too many benefits in PVP Jagex will discourage plain combat training, which is not bad by any means. It's finding the balance between giving benefits to skillers and not leaving the pkers left in the dust if they don't skill. Things like the agility bonuses in PVP are subtle yet needed for many people to function properly. It's up to Jagex (they are the experts aren't they ;)) to decide really and I think they didn't do a very good job with this update at all. They caved in under pressure which is not the image they want to send they high level players who praised the herblore update?

 

Which is what I find the problem with the 40% Magic Potion; it's too much of a benefit to magic users with 85 (or whatever) Herblore. The other potions have real but not game-breaking benefits; the Magic Potion basically determines whether you're successful with pure magic.

 

*Waits for fat_klutz to make his argument*

There is no argument left to be made. You think it is ok that combat level doesn't reflect how good you are at.... combat and I think that that is stupid.

There is no argument left to be made. You think it is ok that combat level doesn't reflect how good you are at.... combat and I think that that is stupid.

 

Because anybody who used extreme pots would be immortal?

There is no argument left to be made. You think it is ok that combat level doesn't reflect how good you are at.... combat and I think that that is stupid.

 

Your wrong there. How good you are at combat is not only based upon your levels, but knowing when to eat, knowing when to special, money, and of course luck. Last I checked I didn't get a cb level for money, or pvp skill at all. Your view of combat seemed so skewed as you think it's all represented in your level when in fact it is not at all. I could be a maxed 138 with the most money under the sun and still loss to someone who knows what they are doing in PvP.

*Tries to quote klutz but fails with new forum controls*

 

Extreme pots only give like 7 or 8ish more than a regular super pot. Yet you are paying mils for high herbalore

 

And all noncombat skills fit into combat in some way

 

Rc = makes runes for magic

Wc = Fletch my logs for arrows and bows

Fishing = I'm sure you of all people should know since you seem so revolved around pvp.

 

And Ect.

 

Why just complain about herbalore?

Complain about the other skills too <.<

Edited October 13, 200916 yr by howbadisbad

So combat level will be further devalued? Why don't we just remove combat level because somebody with lvl 3 combat and 99 in every other skill might be able to end up beating someone with lvl 60 combat the way the trend is going.

 

You realize that is what will happen if updates like this continue.

 

I mean if each skill gives a simple +6 bonus in attack/str/defense your looking at +90 to your stats even if you are at lvl 3 combat.

 

Think your hypothetical lvl 3 would have a real hard time winning using only bronze armor and 10hp.

 

Very disappointed in Jagex for changing it back especially in the cases of safe minigames where nothing is even lost if you die. These would be great in Castle Wars when someone is holding onto the flag to one hit kill them. If they feel so strongly against this why do we just go start making it so claws and AGS can't be using in PVP worlds because obviously it isn't fair to the players that don't have the cash to buy these weapons.

 

Also forgot to mention that with this update it actually made it seem like it might be worth starting to use spirit shield in PVP (Only item with damage reduction) to prevent being one-hit.

If I hear one more complaint about "invisible benefits" or "devalued combat levels", I will go mad.

Money, like herblore level, does not affect combat level. It does drastically affect combat ability.

A level 100 with an AGS could easily defeat a level 100 who can afford no better than a DDS. Even more unfair if the AGS person has antipoison.

The Combat Level system has been broken for years. The main problem is the combat level is based on linear increase, when it should be exponential. A pure with 4 million combat experience points (60 atk, 60 str, 85 rng, 85 mag) shows up as level 58. That's the same combat level as another player with 45 across the board.

 

The main problem is that it's every 10 combat levels (well, after 60 it's every 5) that players can wield progressively stronger weapons and armor. Magic is a whole other issue. Then of course are the portions of the game that affect what items you can access.

 

The herblore thing last week just brought these issues back in into the light.

 

One way to solve the problem is part is to let combat levels increase in an exponential manner. That way a person that has 85 in Mage, about 32 times the experience points of a player with 45 str and atk, reflects a higher combat level commensurate with all the effort he put in. Granted, that shoots pures in the foot cause they can't hide their experience like they have been doing.

 

Wasn't there a post by Jagex that they are revamping the Combat level system anyway?

One way to solve the problem is part is to let combat levels increase in an exponential manner. That way a person that has 85 in Mage, about 32 times the experience points of a player with 45 str and atk, reflects a higher combat level commensurate with all the effort he put in.

 

Bad idea imo.

One way to solve the problem is part is to let combat levels increase in an exponential manner. That way a person that has 85 in Mage, about 32 times the experience points of a player with 45 str and atk, reflects a higher combat level commensurate with all the effort he put in.

 

Bad idea imo.

Agree.