Hefty suggestion for the state of pvp

[elucin8er]

EDIT - Read the bottom of THIS post.

 

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness. Jagex's unseen mistake with pking, was RWT, as they have brought in other means to deal with alternative RWT methods ( the GE ). And it's no secret that Jagex would prefer that pking did not exist, if it meant all RWT problems accossiated with pking, stopped completly.

 

However, Jagex have kept pking in the game, as initially it was entirely what the game focused around. They have brought in strategies to "fix" it, however over time they have done more damage than anything. Being a HUGE pker, at first I blamed them, but I have to now accept the fact they have no incentive of bringing the old wilderness back, keeping RWT at bay is their highest prioritory.

 

All this has been an introduction so far, to soften the blow. As it's a HUGE suggestion which I don't even feel comfortable with so far. And this suggestion would stop inflation, without bringing back RWT methods. ( As my ideal wild, is the old wild ). The suggestion is to ... ready for it .... remove the loss of items on a pvp death. Dealing in much the same fashion as WoW, pking for FUN. You get your pretty items, go out, and beat people up. I know there is nearly more ingredients risked than potential wealth gain ( unless at huge eps ).

 

The ramifications would be insane, and because I haven't dealt with the wilderness in over 3 years, I've love to hear the mature community of tip it discuss it with me. Topics of interest are .... large. They are:

 

Point of pking if you can't obtain anything?

No loss of items such as whips and godswords ( massive price drop? )

Sense of fear, nervous-ness lost

Huge amount of ingredients spent for NO gain

No way to obtain money for pures created for the sole purpose of pking

 

This suggestion removes what Runescape was once all about. However with Jagex's latest updates, they've already done most of that.

 

Now please, give ideas, possible methods for obtaining a gain from pking without the creation of too much inflation. As I agree, most people initially will see no point in spending materials for pking without any potential gain besides the factor of fun. Such ideas include an individual rank you obtain by killing other players, an increased amount if you kill another player of high status or rank. In which the rank can be traded for xp / money (ouch inflation), and gives you a rankable pking status on highscores.

 

There are HUGE amount of downfalls that I hope this topic can fix. However there are some positives, in which players can comfortably pk in their best armor (although this can be countered by not having any "guts")

 

This post has done by head in, feedback time please.

 

EDIT -

 

What about upon death, your items are held safe by an NPC, which can be bought back for half price ( maybe even 1/4 the price ). This is where the GE comes into play with its first useful addition so far, as it could correctly price the items for the pker wanting to buy it back.

 

This suggestion would definetly give risk to pking, as well as draining money out of the game to combat the large inflation problem.

 

HOWEVER, such a potential loss would need to give a much better reward than what has so far been suggested. And I believe this reward has to be an item reward - based on rank or various other suggestions.

 

If you have any immediate problems with this suggestion, post it. I'd like to see some huge flaws with it before I run with it.

[Obtaurian]

I would definitely prefer a ranking or points reward system to what we have now. I think that if we didn't lose our stuff when we died, PVP would be a lot more interesting and diverse. Right now it's full rune + whip -> spec weapon. Perhaps the possibility of taking away the degrading aspect of PVP armor, and instead making it a reward to spend points on. Untradeable, of course.

 

EDIT: PVP has become such a huge mess. It's starting to take away the fun from other areas of the game. It needs a huge overhaul.

[zotto]

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

[Carl]

I agree with this suggestion, completely. You will here any old Pkers saying that "Pking is about fun", huge sums of money don't need to be there to have fun, you can do it without profiting. I think it'd be awesome, basicly, the same as Clan wars free-for-all? Except ones receives a specialty reward.

 

EDIT: Oh, and perhaps leave revenants on these worlds?

[Wachtwoord]

It's a decent idea, however it's probably best to discuss it with a community who actually pks. TIF isn't such a community.

 

OT: Personally, I pk very rarely, but when I do, the small odds of gaining quite a fortune is what makes it interesting in my eyes.

[Nukearcher]

If people wouldnt lose their items on death whole wilderness would turn to people running in bandos clawing everything that moves. Edgeville is already bad with people constantly clawing you if you turn your pray off. I would rather keep the high lvl wilderness as it is now where only people who have "guts" to take their best armors and weapons.

[elucin8er]

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

 

I'm refering to rsc.

[elucin8er]

If people wouldnt lose their items on death whole wilderness would turn to people running in bandos clawing everything that moves. Edgeville is already bad with people constantly clawing you if you turn your pray off. I would rather keep the high lvl wilderness as it is now where only people who have "guts" to take their best armors and weapons.

 

This is one of the biggest concerns i think

[Obtaurian]

If people wouldnt lose their items on death whole wilderness would turn to people running in bandos clawing everything that moves. Edgeville is already bad with people constantly clawing you if you turn your pray off. I would rather keep the high lvl wilderness as it is now where only people who have "guts" to take their best armors and weapons.

 

This is one of the biggest concerns i think

 

I don't think that this would be as much as a problem with ancient mages and hybrids running around. The current wilderness is tailor-made for warriors, meaning that the guys who sit around in full bandos with claws and Armadyl Godswords ARE the biggest threat. With a complete revamp, I think we'd see an influx of hybrids and SERIOUS player killers looking to gain "ranks" or "points." A guy in full bandos with claws would be no match for a competitive hybrid of the same level.

[NukeMarine]

There are large number of problems occuring with PvP. How to get targets (non PvP'rs) to play in PvP worlds, one-itemers, 76k'ing, max damage, inflation, combat triangle, etc.

 

Non PvP'rs into PvP worlds - Brawling gloves have become high insentives to go PvP. Getting drop potential has also helped (so one can get brawling gloves).

 

One-itemers - The auto-skull really helped here. The other part of the solution is in max damage portion

 

76k'ing - Auto-skull and the teleport penalty helped here (with gaining drop potential far too safely). I think there needs to be solution to encourage more players to kill people carrying 76k worth of items. Options can be (should you carry 76k in items)

1. You show up a different color on the radar for players that can kill you

2. If you have 25+ EP, players that kill you get 25k gp of items automatically.

In addition, you can make gaining EP more difficult by saying more people (that can kill you) need to be on your radar in order to gain EP.

 

Max Damage - The dreaded one-hit. Jagex needs to release armor that acts like pray does ie reduce damage from one or more attack types. Hard to one-hit a guy if the armor he wears reduces damage 10%, 20% or 30%. Imagine level 90 Melee armor when full that reduces range damage 50% and melee damage 25%, how much would you pay for that? People can still hurt you, but not one-hit you.

 

Inflation (due to 76k'ing)- Money sinks, pure and simple. Create weapons that feed off of cash. Use crafting and construction and smithing to create "Ornate" clothing that costs millions of gp to make (some tradeable, some not). There's nothing limited here but imagination.

 

Combat Triangle - way too complicated to fix, so it's band-aids all the way.

 

There's no one solution nor a few simple solutions. Even what I offered up has problems.

 

To the original suggestion: part of the draw with RS PvP has been the hard loss of items on death. To be a good killer you have to risk pricey gear (1 itemers being the exception). To not have risk of loss removes that. Safe deaths make PvP into a mini-game.

[elucin8er]

Safe deaths make PvP into a mini-game.

 

Big concern, why pvp when you can just do mini games, I agree. This is where we need to come up with an advantage, a ranking system is one GOOD suggestion, but I'm not sure if it's enough.

[Nukearcher]

If people wouldnt lose their items on death whole wilderness would turn to people running in bandos clawing everything that moves. Edgeville is already bad with people constantly clawing you if you turn your pray off. I would rather keep the high lvl wilderness as it is now where only people who have "guts" to take their best armors and weapons.

 

This is one of the biggest concerns i think

 

I don't think that this would be as much as a problem with ancient mages and hybrids running around. The current wilderness is tailor-made for warriors, meaning that the guys who sit around in full bandos with claws and Armadyl Godswords ARE the biggest threat. With a complete revamp, I think we'd see an influx of hybrids and SERIOUS player killers looking to gain "ranks" or "points." A guy in full bandos with claws would be no match for a competitive hybrid of the same level.

 

I hybrid pk 99% time and still my biggest threat is clawers since ahrims dont give great defense even with arcane (i have arcane) i dont have to deal with them since i pk in none protect worlds.

[brunokiller]

Something like the MA rewards, increasing as your rank increases.

 

 

But then you'd just get people killign each other, like 76king.

 

And Nukearcher, use a

 

 

On another note, safe pvp worlds without a reward system would be ideal. Be able to take your best gear and kill anyone(especially those pesky lvl 70s) that take your training spots. Just make people unable to return for like 30 minutes to prevent 'safe' boss killing, and close off corp.

[Shovelmeface]

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

 

Snap. I'll be playing for 9 years when Jan comes round, and the only PVP stuff Ive been interested in is Dueling, Castle Wars and Soul Wars. I had no interest in pk'n in the Original RS as I saw no point in it.

[Obtaurian]

Something like the MA rewards, increasing as your rank increases.

 

 

But then you'd just get people killign each other, like 76king.

 

And Nukearcher, use a

 

 

On another note, safe pvp worlds without a reward system would be ideal. Be able to take your best gear and kill anyone(especially those pesky lvl 70s) that take your training spots. Just make people unable to return for like 30 minutes to prevent 'safe' boss killing, and close off corp.

 

I was thinking of some ideas that would somewhat prevent that:

 

1) Killing a player more than once in a short period of time will result in no ranks gained. Pretty much exactly how the new 76k prevention system works.

 

2) In order to gain significant ranks, a player is required to have large "kill streaks" in which he/she kills multiple people without dying or leaving the Wilderness. There could be rewards for 10 kills in a row, 20, 30, 40, etc. The larger the streak, the more ranks gained. Killing two friends every few hours would not give ranks fast enough to warrant it has a tactic.

 

3) Introduce PVP only armors and weapons as rewards for gaining ranks in PVP worlds. Higher level equipment would require a certain kill streak achievement before being allowed to purchase it. IE: Level 90 armor and weapons requiring 40+ consecutive kills. :ohnoes:

 

4) Low level Wilderness would give minimal points or ranks. The idea is that you risk being killed by moving deeper into the Wilderness, but you gain ranks faster than if you were playing it safe in level 1.

 

Just a few ideas. This thread has really sparked my interest.

[hohto]

I personally don't like this idea.

 

For solo pkers it would basically be a hybrid of duel arena and clan wars: random 1 vs 1 without a proper reward. Also if there was no reward nor risk, it would just mean leeching ranks. In another words, pointless. If you want to kill people for the sake of it, just do it in soul wars where you coud actually get something helpful.

 

As for clans, this would just drive them into clan wars: why bother getting crashed as there wouldn't be anything to risk for? Last time when this kind of thing happened, the clans suffered really badly. I personally don' think this would be a good idea: it would affect negatively to thousands of active people and wouldn't encourage team work, which also seems to have a high priority at the list of Jagex.

 

As for items, it's hard to predict how would it affect to prises. Runite wouldn't change a lot, due the fact that there's high alchemy and the current prices are quite close to the high alch price in many items. For godswords and such, it's hard to say. Those aren't lossed in masses in pvp (as they're used mainly in +1 worlds or just rushes in really low lvl wildy) but the demand could be a bit random. At first they'd drop for sure, but leeching of ranks could later on make them more interesting.

 

As in total, I wouldn't give any support to ideas that owuld basically destroy pvp activity.

[Cantristenon]

This would mean that high value items would deflate close to their high alch prices quite quickly. Like they were doing when you got as drop what other had. No dangerous pvp = hardly no items vanish.

[Youmu]

Safe PvP... definitely.

 

I'm one of those people that are extremely afraid to lose their items. Also, like you said, PvP is for fun, not srs business.

[Lets_3ekout]

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

Me too. Topic starter totally exaggerated the importance of PvP, most of the RS community doesn't give a damn about it. Perhaps it was so in the days of RSC, but many things have changed. It's just a few loud players that would have you believe otherwise. Couldn't much be bothered reading the rest after reading about how incredibly important PvP is for RS. Several times.

[hohto]

I'm one of those people that are extremely afraid to lose their items. Also, like you said, PvP is for fun, not srs business.

 

Then go to duel arena, soul wars, castle wars, fist of guthix or stealing creation for example. You have plenty of alternatives, destroying the current pvp would just give you slightly different version of those. Also if you are too scared, just train up your skills, practice pvp activity and collect wealth: if you really wanted to do it, you would practice it.

 

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

Me too. Topic starter totally exaggerated the importance of PvP, most of the RS community doesn't give a damn about it. It's just the a few loud players that would have you believe otherwise. Couldn't much be bothered reading the rest after reading about how incredibly important PvP is for RS. Several times.

 

You don't seem to understand that there's literally tens of thousands of active pvpers. Same time the skillers benefit from the fact that pvpers keep up the demand of certain productions, such as food, potions an so on.

[Youmu]

I'm one of those people that are extremely afraid to lose their items. Also, like you said, PvP is for fun, not srs business.

 

Then go to duel arena, soul wars, castle wars, fist of guthix or stealing creation for example. You have plenty of alternatives, destroying the current pvp would just give you slightly different version of those. Also if you are too scared, just train up your skills, practice pvp activity and collect wealth: if you really wanted to do it, you would practice it.

I do play Fist of Guthix, Duel Arena, and Clan Wars. They just don't feel like "real" PvP.

 

I'm only going to go to the PvP worlds if I am higher-leveled and with more cash. Those are the reasons why I'm too scared to lose stuff now.

 

Hope they release PvP +1 worlds soon.

[brunokiller]

I'd absolutely love a +1 pvp world...still don't see the point of disabling prot items tbh. Another thing that I'd love to see would be differently themed pvp worlds, like disables prot item, enabled prot item, 'safe, without rewards(see my previous post), no overhead pray etc...You can just choose the one you like most.

 

And, the easiest one, some europian pk servers...they all have ~180 ping for me.

[hohto]

I do play Fist of Guthix, Duel Arena, and Clan Wars. They just don't feel like "real" PvP.

 

Then what gives the feeling of real pvp? If the current system was turned into a safe minigame, it wouldn't have any major differences to the other minigames, apart from the gameplay areas. If that's the case, then just hope for totally safe pvp worlds instead of trying to turn the existing ones into such.

 

I'm only going to go to the PvP worlds if I am higher-leveled and with more cash. Those are the reasons why I'm too scared to lose stuff now.

 

Yes, in other words you're working to do be able to do something there. The current system has given you a reason to work on your account. Is that a bad thing? Also if losing items is scary, just start a low level pure to practice things.

[Youmu]

I'd absolutely love a +1 pvp world...still don't see the point of disabling prot items tbh. Another thing that I'd love to see would be differently themed pvp worlds, like disables prot item, enabled prot item, 'safe, without rewards(see my previous post), no overhead pray etc...You can just choose the one you like most.

They disabled protect item pray because of the 1 itemers. Now they go to +1 worlds to enjoy their fun.

 

And yes, differently themed PvP worlds would be nice.

 

I do play Fist of Guthix, Duel Arena, and Clan Wars. They just don't feel like "real" PvP.

 

Then what gives the feeling of real pvp? If the current system was turned into a safe minigame, it wouldn't have any major differences to the other minigames, apart from the gameplay areas. If that's the case, then just hope for totally safe pvp worlds instead of trying to turn the existing ones into such. Hmm, yeah, that's a good idea for PvP worlds.

 

I'm only going to go to the PvP worlds if I am higher-leveled and with more cash. Those are the reasons why I'm too scared to lose stuff now.

 

Yes, in other words you're working to do be able to do something there. The current system has given you a reason to work on your account. Is that a bad thing? Also if losing items is scary, just start a low level pure to practice things. It's not the only reason though. I skill because I want levels. :P

[brunokiller]

While we're at it, make the magic attack prayers(like mystic might etc), give a magic damage boost.