Hefty suggestion for the state of pvp

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I'd prefer this to the current PvP, actually. But we already have this in various manifestations: clan wars, duel arena, et al.

 

The question then becomes, what can we do to differentiate it from those other forms of safe PvP. I think reward tokens on drop would be a nice idea.

[Bladewing]

If the reward tokens gave nontradable items, I'd be fine with it.

[Dragonkng198]

I just read this entire topic, and damn is it a long read :o

 

I personally like the idea, but I think that making it completely safe will just make it turn into another minigame.

 

I'm getting an idea while writing this, and its like a combo to take out the RWT aspect.

 

Mobilising Armys has the ability to trade in items for investment tokens, where the more tokens you stake, the more reward you will receive if you win

 

When pking, you speak to Mandrith in Edge (or the brother I have never seen in Lumbridge) and cash in investment credits/tokens like you can do in MA. These will affect your rewards in PVP. You can then go out looking for a fight. You find someone with investment credits and you fight each other. You are wearing 400k in armour, and they are wearing 4m in armour. You kill them, and they lose everything they were carrying for one hour, which is held by Mandrith or the other guy, which you can collect for free at the end of the hour time. This gives the element of risk in, as you will lose your armour and weapons if you die for a short time. Based on some kind of formula that takes into account the amount of investment credits you were risking that fight, and the total amount of the 'risk' your opponent was carrying, you receive reward tokens, which can be spent at Mandrith or the other guy for rewards.

 

Killing anyone more than 12 levels difference your combat level will NOT result in any loss of item, or gaining of reward tokens.

 

Say you made them lose 4m (for the hour), and you were risking 30k worth of credits in that fight, you could get an amount of something like... I don't know, 120 tokens?

 

Tokens could then be spent at Mandrith or the other guy to buy any of the ancient armour peices, and brawling gloves, for a very heavy price. These items would all be untradeable, and anyone with any peice of items at the time of this being updated (just an idea), would receive the maximum value of the item on the G.E.

 

This is just a random idea that popped into my head, and its probably got more than its share of problems, but anyone that reads this could give me an idea on how to improve it? :) I also do not know a formula or a price range for this, as I'm really ill irl atm, so I can't be bothered working out some big stuff :P

[Stewie_Griffen]

I agree with this completely. Give the true PKers something and tell the greedy ones to sit down. This would fix ridiculous prices/inflation, but I also believe that new (and expensive!) defensive items should be added to counteract everyone with Dragon Claws/Godswords running around killing everybody.

 

Hey, maybe they could bring the potions back too. :P

 

Also, hide EP. The whole 'sit around until you have 100' business isn't what PvP should be about.

[mario_sunny]

I just have to say, good job making this topic. We need more people like you in TIF who aren't afraid to post extremely controversial topics. It makes general discussion much more interesting when there are exciting topics like this.

 

Unfortunately I'm not a pker myself so I can't really voice my opinion as I don't really know much about pking or the history of pking. If I was ever in a PvP world it was making a few mil tricking.

 

Good luck with the topic though.

[Adam007]

The only real incentive/value that would exist if they took items out of the equation would be as you said, status. Which brings the question, if we bring the old wildy back, how do we make status a more important factor? They would have to code a way to determine that fights were held legitimately and reward players for killing another player, similar to the game room. It becomes completely based on status and you get the opportunity to BUY very expensive items from a store (untradable) that show off your abilities and wealth. Granted I haven't played in 3 years it's possible they've implemented some of these things already, but I think it could work if the current situation is that bad.

[Slayer_Jesse]

this is called Castle wars/ Fight pits.

[Ace6470]

Make the Wilderness Ditch as a boundary, once entered, cannot go back to banks/safe spots.

 

Players can only go back to a safe place if they die or have killed someone.

[hohto]

I also believe that new (and expensive!) defensive items should be added to counteract everyone with Dragon Claws/Godswords running around killing everybody.

 

I don't. People pk in order to kill the victim, not to avoid the death. If you go to a bh+1 world, you will see loads of expensive weapons but virtually no expensive armours. Godswords and claws are common there but sigil shields are quite rarely seen for a reason: they help you to defend but no to kill. The logic is that if you don't take a proper weapon, you don't stand a chance against someone who has one: you might own him but in most cases not kill. I'd also like to mention that there's 4 "main armour pieces" (helm, legs, plate, shield. I don't count in boots or gloves here), meaning you would actually need to risk at least 3 items to get everything out of the protectiong. Plus we already have certain really good armours, which, however aren't used often pvp due that thing.

 

Also, hide EP. The whole 'sit around until you have 100' business isn't what PvP should be about.

 

And what would that fix? People have clocks and timers to look at. Also even if the time caps were changed, testing out certain times wouldn't exactly be that hard. Also if there was anything similar to EP, people could just camp out in a hotzone for an hour or so, knowing they'd have enough EP to get something. You don't need a visible EP for that, you only need a clock and enough brain cells to realize that you don't have enough EP if your first kill is worth 10k.

 

It becomes completely based on status and you get the opportunity to BUY very expensive items from a store (untradable) that show off your abilities and wealth

 

Currently the "status" can be seen in BHR lists for example. I also disagree with the "buying". Setting up fights just to gain the currency (tokens, points, squirrel furs, you name) wouldn't really differ from current system; the only real differences would be in the fact that you could actually choose what to buy. In my eyes that would just mean easier ways to "abuse" the system as you would benefit from it in a way that pleases you. Not to mention that sounds awfully like FoG already: kill the enemy to get currency and buy an item from a limited range of special items.

 

I just -cut- big stuff :P

 

I don't like this idea:

- 1 hour without the items is nothing. That would just make it a 1itemer paradise trying to benefit from the fact that they don't really lose anything. Die with your gs. Ok no big deal, return with a whip and hope to have a bit more luck. Still not? DDS or d scim could do the trick. Died again? Wait for few more minutes and your gs is ready again. If you can't permanently lose anything, there's hardly any risk either. Not to mention rangers and mages would benefit a lot, seeing that their items are cheap to stock: 5 sets of mystic should be more than enough not to run out ever.

- As there's basically no risk and the formula can basically only count from item value, what would keep a rich person "duying" on a purpose for a loot worth of "billions"? I for example wouldn't mind about not being able to wear my party hat, gs or such for an hour if I was about to go to do some skilling or to sleep. Even if the time was longer than an hour, it wouldn't exactly change anything: too long timer would make sure that people wouldn't pk with any valuables, too short timer would let it to be abused easily and seeing how things must be valued in something, you could just die with some "junk" or junk, depending wether it counts in stuff such as notes.

- As it gives currency, there's the same flaw as in Adam's version: the ability to choose from rewards would kill the randomizing and make you get whatever you wanted to get. No bad loots, no unwanted items, only things that help you and affect to the gameplay on multiple levels: buyable brawlers for example would kill the markets of multiple items.

- Without the lose factory, clan pkin would be only about organization and outlasting: Who cares if you die 50 times in an f2p fight? With a timecap you'd only need a handful (I'm saying handful as many pkers have 1k+sets) of rune sets and that's it: just return via ancients in p2p, hop back to f2p and keep fighting. Takes you 2 minutes to return, you don't basically lose anything and that's it. Sorry, but I'd rather see fights ending after reasonable time too. I know that a clan will stop returning if they can't get organized and if they are only there losing countless runite sets. With this update they could just keep 10-20 people returning all night long without losing anything and making the fight last until the other clan gets bored.

- This would just increase the demand of expensive weapons and armours: you would benefit from them but you couldn't permanently lose them. I could easily see myself whipping out with an ags+claws combo hoping for ko's and "tokens" to help me with some of the skills: if I die, I'd just go to skill for a certain number of hours or return with magic, ranged or such. Then I'd have a reason to use those expensive items, unlike now, and they'd actually help me with non combat skills: this would mean that many skillers would invest in those as they'd make skilling faster and cheaper.

[Peregrine]

When pking, you speak to Mandrith in Edge (or the brother I have never seen in Lumbridge) and cash in investment credits/tokens like you can do in MA. These will affect your rewards in PVP.

 

Odd, I was just thinking of something quite similar.

 

If we were to implement the guidelines and rules the author of this topic has suggested, we run into a few problems.

 

One controversy frequently mentioned is that if PvP becomes risk-free, and you no longer lose items, what reward will be generated and by what system will it's value be determined? There are two types of methods for generating rewards Jagex could give to players for 'winning' in such a situation, and both of these algorithms are already in use in-game.

 

The first method rewards players with symbolical or non-monetary ranks or items.

Rushing upwards through the highscores to prove your better than other players seems a mediocre solution as to giving players a reason to participate in PvP, until you realize that because there is no risk, all it takes is a large cashpile and decent combat stats to rise through the ranks with no effort.

The next type of symbolical rewards that I mentioned are items that prove you completed a worthy achievement. Castle Wars armour and Chompy Bird Hunting hats are good examples of these kinds symbolical armour, and anyone who has obtained the highest-level styles of these armours is generally treated with respect. Yet the same problem lies within this solution - it is quite easy for some to breeze up to the top and obtain those dignified items, and there are no obstacles that can stand in the way of those players. The respect that is given to Castle Wars armour and the Chompy hats is because they are not easily obtained, and if there is no skill in obtaining an item, the only way left to make an item hard to obtain is by requiring the player to go through hours of constant grinding to achieve their goal.

 

The second method rewards players with items of monetary value.

This is where the PvP system currently stands, and from this point is where it is trying to find a solution.

The most obvious problem using this method of rewarding in the author's system is that nothing fiscal would be lost in PvP, and assuming we are giving players monetary rewards, there would be a huge influx of currency generated into the system due to tens of thousands of players profitting. Thusly we see that if PKers want to receive money without destroying the economy, they have to lose money. This is currently where our system is, except some players have decided they would like to profit without risk. If you take a look at the mass majority of PKers, the value of items lost should balance out with the value of items gained, providing Jagex set up their reward-generator as a non-profit/non-loss system. Yet when we throw in a few players who decide to 'trick' the system and gain monetary value without loss, this turns Jagex's balanced-generator into an inflation machine, ready to destroy the economy.

 

I believe we can find a solution while still retaining rewards of monetary value.

Our system right now is not random enough. By working together, players can determine profit for each other without a loss on anyone else's part. I suggest that Jagex encorporate a lottery-style PvP system. Every player would input a small amount of currency as a 'participation fee', and this sum would be accumulated into a large 'jackpot', or 'jackpots'. Depending on how close the battle was, how quickly an opponent was decimated, or skilled feats such as defeating someone of a higher combat level, or KO'ing the 'wrong' side of the combat triangle (A mage kills a ranger, for instance.), more of a chance that the jackpot could be rewarded to them would be taken into account. There are other 'lottery' style options you could include, such as 'Luck Tickets' (you pay more of an entry fee to get a higher chance of reward), 'Killing Sprees', and one idea that just faded out of my head, and existence aswell. When you die, you have to pay another entry fee to join back in. This also gives incentive to PvP: more players PKing means a bigger jackpot with a lesser chance. For instance, say everyone donated 10k minimum when signing into a Lottery World. That's a small price to pay to PvP with your full Bandos + AGS, right? And you have a chance at getting a reward, too! Now, let's put 2000 players onto this world. If we just have one jackpot, that gives us a 20,000,000 possible reward, which could be split into smaller, multiple jackpots aswell.

 

The best thing about this system is that it cannot produce more money than that which is put into it, the reward is obtainable by anyone, and the reward cannot be acquired by any more easily by a group trying to 'trick' the system.

 

Edit:You could also easily insert 'feel-good clothing/armour' in here as random drops to be symbolic tokens for reward. These equipables should not have any combat-boosting stats, and should only exist for status and eyecandy.

--

Other controversial PvP related updates I would like to see discussed are...

 

• 'Personalized Combat Rules' - essentially a Duel Arena-eque setting for PvP worlds.
  
• Special Defence Bar - You click it, and it nullifies your opponent's next attack. If your opponent used a Special Attack, the damage is reduced by ~50%-75%.
  
• Functional HP Levels - People are getting close to hitting 99, why not allow us to have more than 99 HP? For example, you have 95 HP. That number is inserted into a function which determines your actual HP. f(95)=150, f(96)=161, per se. This would also allow for higher-hitting bosses, and tougher monsters.
  

[Great_one]

As much as i hate to say it, safe pvp would ruin the economy. Food would cost nothing, and boss hunting would be near useless.

[Peregrine]

As much as i hate to say it, safe pvp would ruin the economy. Food would cost nothing, and boss hunting would be near useless.

 

I agree, on a condition. Safe PvP will ruin the economy if there is no incentive to last longer than your opponent.

 

If there is a reason you should last longer than your opponent, then potions and food will be consumed.

 

Also - you're right about boss hunting - as no one can lose their items, the demand is only equal to the number of players who don't have one, which will diminish greatly over time as more people add such weapons to their inventory. The only economic circulation generated from weapons will be caused by those with a small amount of gold pieces who must cycle weapons in order to achieve the most satisfactory results at different times.

[elucin8er]

As much as i hate to say it, safe pvp would ruin the economy. Food would cost nothing, and boss hunting would be near useless.

 

I agree, on a condition. Safe PvP will ruin the economy if there is no incentive to last longer than your opponent.

 

The if is the big part, and if Great read over the pages, he'd see several suggestions on giving incentive to pk if it were safe. Some I must say, are quite good.

 

Phew, many pages to read, tons of awesome ideas. Although it's hard to say any idea has really striked me as amazing or able to stand up to the old wilderness. Item loss for 24 hours is an interesting idea however :P

[elucin8er]

Ding!, just had an idea :mrgreen:

 

What about upon death, your items are held safe by an NPC, which can be bought back for half price ( maybe even 1/4 the price ). This is where the GE comes into play with its first useful addition so far, as it could correctly price the items for the pker wanting to buy it back.

 

This suggestion would definetly give risk to pking, as well as draining money out of the game to combat the large inflation problem.

 

HOWEVER, such a potential loss would need to give a much better reward than what has so far been suggested. And I believe this reward has to be an item reward - based on rank or various other suggestions.

 

If you have any immediate problems with this suggestion, post it. I'd like to see some huge flaws with it before I run with it.

[Peregrine]

One of the problems I see with your idea also occurs in my Lottery PvP idea aswell.

This problem stems from the fact once players cannot lose armour, the demand for armour will go down, and thus the price will drop considerably if the supply remains the same. The only incentive people will have for killing GWD bosses is for fun.

 

Thus, I would propose a simultaneous update - an update that requires use of hard-to obtain items in a risky situation as to take loads of them out of the game.

 

I believe a clan-styled boss somewhere in (probably a new level of ) the abyss (so that the players are skulled) that is weak to God-themed weapons and drops a unique, untradeable item would be a temporary solution to this. This item must be untradeable, or the same problem we have with godswords will reveal itself again. People will go here and die, people will go here and succeed. The lower the mission's chance of success is, the higher demand for godswords and good armour will be. Note I said this idea is only temporary - and it would be, providing that surviving the boss was based on skill rather than the hope you don't get OHKO'd.

It would be temporary because people through trial and error will find a good method that minimizes risk to gain the chance of reward.

 

An absolute loss situation would be more assuring. Using godswords as keys (that break consequencely) to access certain areas would no doubt be a good way to get rid of the supply and increase the demand - yet I believe this sort of idea is still in early stages of development, as no one would be willing to give up a ~60-100m object without the reward being drastically gamechanging. Perhaps this could be introduced a month after the PvP update - as godswords will have already dropped down to a decent price, perhaps this sort of update would keep them at a constant price.

[Mecakoto]

Point of pking if you can't obtain anything?

 

Fun. But with the current state of play that Runescape is in (If you don't get anything in the end, most Runescape players will just think, "there is no point and go on. Of course, most of them are the "MUST BE FAST! MUST BE EFFICIENT! BLARG!" type that are 12. I bet they don't even like Tetris because there is no pat on the back in the end. /tangent), this won't fly. It could also cause economic upheaval.

 

No loss of items such as whips and godswords ( massive price drop? )

 

It would cause a massive price drop. Most high-end areas, enemies' drops, and Slayer in general will become worthless (again).

 

Sense of fear, nervous-ness lost

 

Only if you fear being sent to your respawn point when you're heading to an area.

 

Huge amount of ingredients spent for NO gain

 

Rule of Fun. Cost < Fun. Look at World 31, the House Party world. Many Pots, Dragon Arrows, and Runes are used in them in on a daily basis. Making the wild like this would add to the fun considerably. Single-combat house party...

No way to obtain money for pures created for the sole purpose of pking

 

Pures are a self-imposed challenge and nothing more. Same goes with skillers or DIYers. Pures still have slayer/monster killing/boss hunting. They even have... GASP! Skills! Because sharks don't fish themselves.

 

 

From what I've gathered, a spend-points-for-untradable-mega-armor idea is one that would fit well. I like it. The super-shiny-diamond-encrusted-mega-ultra-championship-edition-armor would have to be banned from Pvp because, "Only 25k People can wield it *cry.*" - The cry of 4-year-olds converted from Herblore to Armor.

-----

 

I read all of page 1 and whatever was posted on top of page 4 at the time. That being said, I await what you have to say.

[Saunamajuri]

Since the start of Runescape, you played it to pk. Everything you did in the game and every lvl of a skill was to better prepare yourself for the wilderness.

 

I never had any interest in PKing and I played the game for several years.

 

This. I have never, ever pked on my whole RS career.

[Peregrine]

You should read my post on page 3, if you have not already, Meca.

 

Okay, I'll stop this shameless self-advertising.

 

Anyway, I'll run my Lottery Theory through the list of concerns taken note of in the first post, in a style that of Jagex answering questions about it if it was a future update. If there are any questions not covered here, please don't hesitate to ask me to answer them. Finding problems in a hypothesis is the best way to perfect it.

 

Point of pking if you can't obtain anything your opponent drops no loot?

With the new lottery-styled PvP system, players can now PK for fun at a small price, and if you happen to perform a kill requiring great talent, you may be able to reap the benefits of a 20,000,000 gold piece jackpot.

 

No loss of items such as whips and godswords ( massive price drop? )

Don't worry, we've taken this into account, and provided a way to make sure the demand for such items stays very high.

 

Sense of fear, nervous-ness lost

Even though you are not risking much, you must repay your "participation fee" as a contribution to the jackpot once you die. Plus, we feel that the sense of fun and enjoyment outweighs that of fear and nervousness - We're sure you will find lots of risk in a few deadly PvM situations we introduce later on this year...

 

Huge amount of ingredients spent for NO gain

We've decided that the Lottery-style system is great, because everyone can choose how much they want to spend, and there is potential for great rewards. Of course, in order to succeed you may need to bring in higher-level food, potions, arrows, or runes.

 

No way to obtain money for pures created for the sole purpose of pking

We feel there is no need for pures to restrict themselves away from skill-based moneymaking, and that there is no reason to provide methods distinctly for these pures to accumulate money via PKing. However, this lottery gives every account a fair chance of winning a reasonable amount of loot. PKing should not be viewed as the sole way to make money for a combat-themed character. Boss-hunting is just one of a number of good alternatives for money to be made.

 

--

Hopefully, for all those who don't constantly PK or do not enjoy PKing currently (Myself in the first category), this update would make an preferentially obselete feature functional and useful for everyone.

[la la la]

That's what the pvp minigames are for, such as castle wars and duel arena.

[hohto]

Point of pking if you can't obtain anything your opponent drops no loot?

With the new lottery-styled PvP system, players can now PK for fun at a small price, and if you happen to perform a kill requiring great talent, you may be able to reap the benefits of a 20,000,000 gold piece jackpot.

 

How would this differ from 76k or the current duel tournaments? You'd pk without a proper risk and yet have the chances to gain more than from the current system? How would the clans have to deal with this? In other words you'd want a system that produces more and more wealth to the community while the demand of many goods sink to the rock bottom.

 

No loss of items such as whips and godswords ( massive price drop? )

Don't worry, we've taken this into account, and provided a way to make sure the demand for such items stays very high.

 

Like you said, that would only be a temporary solution. In other words, after a certain period of time it would become like cooking guild: would get overthrown by new methods and abandoned. It would also make sure that the rich people (I wouldn't personally mind, but for the whole picture it wouldn't be great) would get even stronger: if the drops were worth getting, it would mean the ones being able to do that would just gain either massive amouns of gp (supreme weapons = easier boss hunting) or xp depending on the drops. If the drops weren't great, why would people bother? There's a reason why most 120+ people are doing gw instead of kq: if you have two alternatives, you go for the one that benefits you more. Not to mention I don't see that as a proper way to increase the demand of godswords: the ones who want to gain a lot of gp through monster hunting have their godswords, zammy spears and such. Add in lending, required stats and a team.

 

Sense of fear, nervous-ness lost

Even though you are not risking much, you must repay your "participation fee" as a contribution to the jackpot once you die. Plus, we feel that the sense of fun and enjoyment outweighs that of fear and nervousness - We're sure you will find lots of risk in a few deadly PvM situations we introduce later on this year...

 

Contribution to the jackpot? Have you ever heard of the duel tournament? Last time I checked, there was an entry fee (similar thing to your "participation fee") and a reward. Sense of fun and enjoyment outweighting the fear and nervousness? Sorry, but there's a reason why duel arena is currently rather empty compared to PvP worlds: if we wanted just to have fun and kill each other for laughs, we'd go to stealing creation, clan wars, castle wars, fist of guthix or even to soul wars. What NEW does your idea offer apart from combining risks of FoG to the rewards of 76k?

 

I'd also like to remind you that we don't kill people just for the fun. If this was the case, why do majority of the top 20 clan fights (over 10k people in total) happen in PvP/bh worlds instead of safe alternatives such as CW? The idea of sacrificing yourself, making others to stop returning and actually having to pay attention are the things that interest people, not just "the sense of fun and enjoyment".

 

Huge amount of ingredients spent for NO gain

We've decided that the Lottery-style system is great, because everyone can choose how much they want to spend, and there is potential for great rewards. Of course, in order to succeed you may need to bring in higher-level food, potions, arrows, or runes.

 

This just reminds me of bh+1 worlds, except in worse scale. You'd risk basically nothing, just hope for few lucky hits and a jackpot. If the system was like this, you could expect to see a huge drop in the demand of potions, fish and such. Who'd benefit? At least not the skillers.

 

No way to obtain money for pures created for the sole purpose of pking

We feel there is no need for pures to restrict themselves away from skill-based moneymaking, and that there is no reason to provide methods distinctly for these pures to accumulate money via PKing. However, this lottery gives every account a fair chance of winning a reasonable amount of loot. PKing should not be viewed as the sole way to make money for a combat-themed character. Boss-hunting is just one of a number of good alternatives for money to be made.

 

I don't understand it. You say that it gives a fair chance to win a reasonable amount of loot, it still shouldn't be a main method of making money and monster hunting is a good alternative? Did I understand this right: you're saying it is profitable but people should still do something else for money? Where's the logic? If my zerker pure for example could benefit from almost zero risk "pkin", why would I waste resources on monster hunting? Should I just hunt monsters because this is meant to be fun, despite of being profitable? I see no logic in here: we do what we like the most and I bet if people could for basically free get X gp, why would they waste money on resources and risk duying at the boss monsters?

 

Hopefully, for all those who don't constantly PK or do not enjoy PKing currently (Myself in the first category), this update would make an preferentially obselete feature functional and useful for everyone.

 

In my eyes this sums up the idea of this post. You want the benefits but not the risks and forget about things such as team work, clans and the difference between pkin and pvp related minigames. My advise is to actually try proper pkin in many different ways: f2p&p2p, high&low level, solo&team, etc. From your idea I got the feeling that you don't know what to change but you know what you personally want. Basically you're wanting a system that can give huge amounts of money, no real risk and that is still meant to be just fun. I see no reason whatsoever to get another pvp related minigame, we have plenty of alternatives. Even less I'd want to see a minigame that can be abused as easily as this, that would tweak the economy even more and that would basically destroy the idea of serious clan pkin.

 

Sorry, but I would rather support Putin for his 3rd term than this idea in its current form. I could somehow understand a lottery with a lot more reasonable pricing as a duel arena update but definitely not as a pvp replacement.

 

edit: If you want to "have fun" and have no risk, go to the Castle wars. Ring of dueling will help you to find it. If you want to gain money from killing people, go to pvp. If you want a mixture of both, go to FoG. The level of risk correlates with the level of benefits and in your idea the curve points totally to the wrong direction: no risk but high benefits.

[Fellfrosch6]

As someone who has played RuneScape since almost the beginning of RS2, I whole-heartedly agree.

 

PK'ing has really turned into a cowardly gong show, with players just trying to find cheap methods of fighting and gaining rewards. It should be about fun!

 

I do think that a PK'er ranking system and a points system to earn rewards (such as combat specific consumables, armour sets etc.) would be a welcome addition as well. It pretty much eliminates RWT possibilities and gives PK'ers something to work towards.

 

 

The one thing that I think will make this idea hard to implement in RuneScape, compared to other games like WOW, is that RuneScape's combat system is...well, Boring!

I do think that while tweaking the Pk'ing is essential, working on revamping the combat system to make the fights more dynamic is even more important for the game's longevity. Standing around and simply slashing away, or spamming one or two attacks doesn't make for an interesting system.

But that's another story! I won't hijack your thread! :wink:

 

I agree completely!

[Returnofmic]

I've read all the posts up to here, and I'm going to voice my opinion.

 

I've recently become quite bored of RuneScape, so I decided to start PK'ing. I'm not very good at it, but that doesn't bother me, because the feeling when I see someone drop to their knees; it's that feeling I PK for. I understand that some people PK for the loots, but as has been said a few times, PK'ing should be about fun. The PvP/BH worlds are basically an arena to show who is the best player (PK'ing wise), which in my opinions is good.

 

Now, as for how the loot system should be fixed, I don't really know a good solution. Like stated, the loot should somehow reflect the value carried, but while still staying fair, and most importantly, the system has to prevent RWT.

 

But yeah, great thread, it's been intersting to see everyone's suggestions.

[Peregrine]

Thank you, hohto, for taking the time to point out flaws and similarities to existing game content in my idea.

As I said, I do believe that careful observation and reconstruction is the way to perfect a hypothesis.

 

I actually agree with a lot of your points, the main one being that my idea would essentially be "Duel Tournament Worlds", and there is no point in adding such an addition unless there is a difference. I believe the difference is that Duel Tournaments are unevenly balanced, and you do not have the PKing feel of attacking whom you please or being attacked by anyone else (Within the level range, of course). You might be a level-70 pure paired up with a level-130, all of a sudden your chances of winning the tournament are almost negated.

 

Also, Lottery Worlds would be Duel Tournaments on a massive scale. Whereas not everyone who plays in an Official Duel Tournament World is actually participating in the tournament, everyone on the Lottery World is participating in the lottery, and thus the rewards generated from the Lottery World entry fees are from close to 2000 players, not 64 players. (The Duel Tournament's max reward is 64x1,000,000 = 64,000,000gp. Every participant pays 1,000,000gp to enter. In a full Lottery World, every player would have to pay an entry fee of 32,000gp to obtain the same 64m reward. That's more than a 31-fold decrease in risk. Note that the chance of obtaining the reward also increases 31-fold.)

 

The true difference between PvP Lottery Worlds and Duel Tournaments is that Lottery Worlds have less restrictions and bounds.

 

Edit: Waitasec - I remember hearing about a Duel Tourneys update recently. Apparently this was supposed to balance out Tourneys? Can anyone who has played in a tourney post-update confirm that tourneys have been balanced out?

 

Point of pking if you can't obtain anything your opponent drops no loot?

With the new lottery-styled PvP system, players can now PK for fun at a small price, and if you happen to perform a kill requiring great talent, you may be able to reap the benefits of a 20,000,000 gold piece jackpot.

 

How would this differ from 76k or the current duel tournaments? You'd pk without a proper risk and yet have the chances to gain more than from the current system? How would the clans have to deal with this? In other words you'd want a system that produces more and more wealth to the community while the demand of many goods sink to the rock bottom.

 

The thing here is that there is no way more cash can be exported from the system than the amount of cash entered in. In fact, this system would most likely provide deflation if it did not take into account the value lost from eating food, drinking potions, runes expended or arrows left on the ground. People would use food/potions/runes/arrows IF they need them to survive longer than their opponent. If their defence, hitpoints and prayer levels can nullify the threat generated by their opponent, you are correct, these consumables will definitely drop in demand and thusly in price, and skillers will most definitely be harmed. The incentive to use these items is this: if you last longer than your opponent, you have a chance of attaining a reward. If the reward is such that no one cares about obtaining it, consumables will not be consumed. These two situations must be satisfied in order for this theory to work.

 

No loss of items such as whips and godswords ( massive price drop? )

Don't worry, we've taken this into account, and provided a way to make sure the demand for such items stays very high.

 

Like you said, that would only be a temporary solution. In other words, after a certain period of time it would become like cooking guild: would get overthrown by new methods and abandoned. It would also make sure that the rich people (I wouldn't personally mind, but for the whole picture it wouldn't be great) would get even stronger: if the drops were worth getting, it would mean the ones being able to do that would just gain either massive amouns of gp (supreme weapons = easier boss hunting) or xp depending on the drops. If the drops weren't great, why would people bother? There's a reason why most 120+ people are doing gw instead of kq: if you have two alternatives, you go for the one that benefits you more. Not to mention I don't see that as a proper way to increase the demand of godswords: the ones who want to gain a lot of gp through monster hunting have their godswords, zammy spears and such. Add in lending, required stats and a team.

 

You are right, and I agree. The rich will get stronger, and as of such we must provide a way for the poor to enter the rich class. Perhaps not only "Level-range limits", but also "Gear-range limits" should be instituted - "Gear-range limits" would require players to fight others in similarly priced gear. Of course limits are no good, as they restrict freedom, but some limits must be implemented to provide a fair society for all.

 

Sense of fear, nervous-ness lost

Even though you are not risking much, you must repay your "participation fee" as a contribution to the jackpot once you die. Plus, we feel that the sense of fun and enjoyment outweighs that of fear and nervousness - We're sure you will find lots of risk in a few deadly PvM situations we introduce later on this year...

 

Contribution to the jackpot? Have you ever heard of the duel tournament? Last time I checked, there was an entry fee (similar thing to your "participation fee") and a reward. Sense of fun and enjoyment outweighting the fear and nervousness? Sorry, but there's a reason why duel arena is currently rather empty compared to PvP worlds: if we wanted just to have fun and kill each other for laughs, we'd go to stealing creation, clan wars, castle wars, fist of guthix or even to soul wars. What NEW does your idea offer apart from combining risks of FoG to the rewards of 76k?

 

I'd also like to remind you that we don't kill people just for the fun. If this was the case, why do majority of the top 20 clan fights (over 10k people in total) happen in PvP/bh worlds instead of safe alternatives such as CW? The idea of sacrificing yourself, making others to stop returning and actually having to pay attention are the things that interest people, not just "the sense of fun and enjoyment".

 

Thank you so much for mentioned the Duel Tournament. Yes, I have heard of it, but all notions of it exist in the fathoms of my mind, due to my longtime existance as a F2Per. You do provide valid reasons why Duel Tournaments are empty, but I would argue that many people do not know about the potential for profit from Duel Tournaments. A potential of 64,000,000 is quite rare, as many people do not feel safe spending 1m on something they consider safe, like the tourneys. Yet if people realized they could gain a 64-fold profit, I believe the tournament may increase in popularity.

 

Also, about clan wars. I don't believe clans 'declare' on other clans nowadays for profit. They are warring for purposes such as glory and valor. Profit may be an added bonus - but if your opponent drops an object worth 13m, is it honorable to run/teleport out of battle and bank this item and return later? (I ask this partially to prove a point, and partially because I want to know more about clan etiquette.) I believe the reason clans do not use the Clan Wars facilities is because of the limited amount of space and limited amount of warriors involved. You can only fit 100 clanmates in a war in Clan Wars at a time - are you kidding? Many clans have more than 100 members, and if they were given an opportunity to be able to use their true full force, don't you think they would?

 

I see what you mean about the risk/fear factor playing an important role in PvP, but I don't believe it is absolutely necessary to make PvP complete. Potential solutions for this idea could be allowing players to input a larger-than-normal 'entrance fee' to give them a higher shot at the prize. You could choose how much you risk, and thusly how nervous you will be about dying.

 

Also, I'm not necessarily trying to make a new feature, I'm more of trying to fix an old one. If we can fix an old feature by using methods already ingame, there is less programming/work to do on Jagex's part.

 

Huge amount of ingredients spent for NO gain

We've decided that the Lottery-style system is great, because everyone can choose how much they want to spend, and there is potential for great rewards. Of course, in order to succeed you may need to bring in higher-level food, potions, arrows, or runes.

 

This just reminds me of bh+1 worlds, except in worse scale. You'd risk basically nothing, just hope for few lucky hits and a jackpot. If the system was like this, you could expect to see a huge drop in the demand of potions, fish and such. Who'd benefit? At least not the skillers.

 

I personally believe the demand would remain stable, as you only gain profit when you have defeated another player (or alternately survived another player's attacks). Yes, there are manipulations around this. Two players could kill each other over and over to try and obtain the 'Jackpot'. The truth is, though, that there is 1/2000th of a chance of obtaining this jackpot, and there is no reason for Jagex not to lower that chance once the system detects that you are killing the same player(s) over and over.

 

No way to obtain money for pures created for the sole purpose of pking

We feel there is no need for pures to restrict themselves away from skill-based moneymaking, and that there is no reason to provide methods distinctly for these pures to accumulate money via PKing. However, this lottery gives every account a fair chance of winning a reasonable amount of loot. PKing should not be viewed as the sole way to make money for a combat-themed character. Boss-hunting is just one of a number of good alternatives for money to be made.

 

I don't understand it. You say that it gives a fair chance to win a reasonable amount of loot, it still shouldn't be a main method of making money and monster hunting is a good alternative? Did I understand this right: you're saying it is profitable but people should still do something else for money? Where's the logic? If my zerker pure for example could benefit from almost zero risk "pkin", why would I waste resources on monster hunting? Should I just hunt monsters because this is meant to be fun, despite of being profitable? I see no logic in here: we do what we like the most and I bet if people could for basically free get X gp, why would they waste money on resources and risk duying at the boss monsters?

 

PKing in the Lottery Worlds on your zerker pure to make money would work quite well providing you already had a decent amount of cash stored up. In order to succeed, you need armour, a weapon, and consumables, which are unobtainable on Lottery Worlds. There is still reason for training outside of Lottery Worlds and for Boss-Hunting; you need those skills to be raised, you need those higher-level armours, in order to successful get chances at attaining the 'Jackpot'. If you continued to fight other zerker pures whilst wearing low-level armour, but they have obtained better armour, the chances of you winning are worse than if you tried to obtain the best armour for your levels.

 

Hopefully, for all those who don't constantly PK or do not enjoy PKing currently (Myself in the first category), this update would make an preferentially obselete feature functional and useful for everyone.

-snip-

Even less I'd want to see a minigame that can be abused as easily as this, that would tweak the economy even more and that would basically destroy the idea of serious clan pkin.

 

edit: If you want to "have fun" and have no risk, go to the Castle wars. Ring of dueling will help you to find it. If you want to gain money from killing people, go to pvp. If you want a mixture of both, go to FoG. The level of risk correlates with the level of benefits and in your idea the curve points totally to the wrong direction: no risk but high benefits.

 

Wow, thanks for pointing clans out - as I created this idea, they never crossed my mind, and thus got the brunt end of this idea.

As I analyze how clans should fit in with Lottery Worlds, I realize that they shouldn't. In fact, clanning in a lottery would most likely be looked on as abuse, as the individual participants would have to either join a clan or be unable to succeed.

 

Clans should operate in Clan-themed Worlds (Feel free to suggest ideas for those), or in the Clan Wars Arena, which most definitely needs an update. Clans should be treated differently than individuals, and perhaps Clan Worlds could even relax up on the rules that have been enforced on individual PKing. Obviously, if this was implemented, individuals could not log into a Clan World without first specifying which clan they are joining, which would then forward a message to the clan to let them decide whether this player is allowed to join their clan.

 

I also like your analogy about my system being "No risk but high benefits", but I would argue that Jagex's current system is this way at the moment aswell. Three players can 76k (Which isn't that much for the average 76ker, and thus little risk) and reap massive benefits. The difference with my system is that the benefits are spread out quasi-randomly, and as of such is unable to be manipulated.

[hohto]

Also, Lottery Worlds would be Duel Tournaments on a massive scale. Whereas not everyone who plays in an Official Duel Tournament World is actually participating in the tournament, everyone on the Lottery World is participating in the lottery, and thus the rewards generated from the Lottery World entry fees are from close to 2000 players, not 64 players. (The Duel Tournament's max reward is 64x1,000,000 = 64,000,000gp. Every participant pays 1,000,000gp to enter. In a full Lottery World, every player would have to pay an entry fee of 32,000gp to obtain the same 64m reward. That's more than a 31-fold decrease in risk. Note that the chance of obtaining the reward also increases 31-fold.)

 

In your first sentence you stated that it would be unfair due the "70 vs 138" thing. Now you're calculating with 2k players. Would these 2k players (on notice: atm only +1 worlds have over 1k players on them) be separated somehow through combat and still play with the same money? Would this "level 70 pure" pay X amount of gp, "lvl 138" Y and together they'd go to pool Z? If so, how is it fair that low levels who obviously (especially in p2p) benefit from high level players have basically the same chances to win? How does the "risked" amount of gp correlate with the chances to win something big?

 

If the chances to win don't depend on risk, it's just helping people who haven't worked to get levels and expensive gear. If they do, this is just a slap to the face of pures. If the people fight in different categories (say, lvl 50 to 70 group, etc. A bit like the old BH crater) and from their own "loot poles", it just means that you won't get 2k people there to create this pool, it gets easier to abuse and so on.

 

I'd also like to ask how is this a lottery and how would it work in a world with 1k people (I see that as more realistic than 2k) for example? Would you need to be at "top *Add a number here* in order to be at the gambling section? If so, how would it be divided? What exactly is counted to the amount of "donated wealth"? If it's just pure gp donated to a box, why would people invest more than minimum if it doesn't increase the chances to win? Why would I for example invest 100m to a pool of 10m if I could only invest 100k for example and still have the same profit margin? If it does, how can this be fair (I believe you used the words "unevenly balanced") for people with less money? They wouldn't only suffer from not having the great weapons, but also from smaller chances to win the pot.

 

The true difference between PvP Lottery Worlds and Duel Tournaments is that Lottery Worlds have less restrictions and bounds.

 

Lets compare these. First of all this has higher bounds in gear when it comes to pvp: if you don't risk losing A LOT, you have less limitations on gear. Secondly, what else does it do to liberalize the pvp worlds? I'm drinking absinthe at the moment so that could affect to my thinking, but at least I can't give any real ways how it would have less restrictions or bounds and still be somewhat fair and work in reality.

 

The thing here is that there is no way more cash can be exported from the system than the amount of cash entered in. In fact, this system would most likely provide deflation if it did not take into account the value lost from eating food, drinking potions, runes expended or arrows left on the ground. People would use food/potions/runes/arrows IF they need them to survive longer than their opponent. If their defence, hitpoints and prayer levels can nullify the threat generated by their opponent, you are correct, these consumables will definitely drop in demand and thusly in price, and skillers will most definitely be harmed. The incentive to use these items is this: if you last longer than your opponent, you have a chance of attaining a reward. If the reward is such that no one cares about obtaining it, consumables will not be consumed. These two situations must be satisfied in order for this theory to work.

 

Without the risks and with a lottery system, I don't believe a lot of food, potions or such would be dragged out of the game. Why would a person with d claws for example waste a lot of gp on setting up inventories when their only motive is to get a quick ko? You can see this in the current bh+1 worlds: people use as minimal setup as possible (many even don't risk enough to get a loot with the current system) and pray for lucky hits. Or even better, why would people without claws or godswords use a proper inventory, when their chances to be at the very top are really slim?

 

You are right, and I agree. The rich will get stronger, and as of such we must provide a way for the poor to enter the rich class. Perhaps not only "Level-range limits", but also "Gear-range limits" should be instituted - "Gear-range limits" would require players to fight others in similarly priced gear. Of course limits are no good, as they restrict freedom, but some limits must be implemented to provide a fair society for all.

 

Just a while ago you said this would reduce boundaries and restrictions. Now you're suggesting to add in gear limits. I see two things that don't match: that actually is a bigger limitation than the current system, instead of breaking boundaries it would add in even more. Lets not concentrate on that flaw anyways, it isn't the point here.

 

The point is that if you try to divide people into gear groups and still let them benefit from the same price pool, you encourage people not to invest anything on expensive gear. Why would I for example buy an AGS, master wand and some sigil shield for this if it limits my chances to benefit from them: I'd be fighting people with similar gear and thus lose the point of my investment. I could aswell fight people in a category where the gear doesn't limit the money I could use for merchanting, buying skills or such. If the gear groups had different price pools, where would you get the real pots for expensive item groups, especially when the level limitations are there too?

 

The more you add in level and gear restrictions, the more biased it comes. It reduces the chances to benefit from your own doing (i.e. trained skills, wealth, etc) and causes problems with the price pools.

 

Thank you so much for mentioned the Duel Tournament. Yes, I have heard of it, but all notions of it exist in the fathoms of my mind, due to my longtime existance as a F2Per. You do provide valid reasons why Duel Tournaments are empty, but I would argue that many people do not know about the potential for profit from Duel Tournaments. A potential of 64,000,000 is quite rare, as many people do not feel safe spending 1m on something they consider safe, like the tourneys. Yet if people realized they could gain a 64-fold profit, I believe the tournament may increase in popularity.

 

The "not knowing" can't be the only reason, in my opinion not even the main reason. It has been there for a long time, it isn't hidden anyways and still it hasn't "leaked out". Meanwhile many "secrets" have been leaked out. It would make no sense at all if dueling was only looked down because it isn't known about. The fact is that there's not enough people to risk so much in it that it becomes worth it.

 

Also, about clan wars. I don't believe clans 'declare' on other clans nowadays for profit. They are warring for purposes such as glory and valor. Profit may be an added bonus - but if your opponent drops an object worth 13m, is it honorable to run/teleport out of battle and bank this item and return later? (I ask this partially to prove a point, and partially because I want to know more about clan etiquette.) I believe the reason clans do not use the Clan Wars facilities is because of the limited amount of space and limited amount of warriors involved. You can only fit 100 clanmates in a war in Clan Wars at a time - are you kidding? Many clans have more than 100 members, and if they were given an opportunity to be able to use their true full force, don't you think they would?

 

I just had a quick look at RSC, due the fact that Tip.IT clan section is more or less of a joke. I opened 10 newest posts and here's the summary:

* 1st fight = In wildy, nowhere close of getting 100 members together, yet alone to one clan.

* 2nd fight = Same

* 3rd fight = CWA, both totally unknown groups for me and I've been in the clan scene for years.

* 4th fight = Same as 3rd.

* 5th fight = Same as 1nd and 2nd.

* 6th fight = Same as above

* 7th fight = Same as 3rd

* 8-10th fight = Same as 1st

 

If you look at that list (my own experiences say the same), CWA is mainly used by clans that are "nothing", for practice or random "fun" events, same way as pk clans randomly go to fishing trawlers, castler wars or so. Clans don't boycot clan wars because it would limit their strenght: it infact doesn't in many cases, vast majority of the pk clans can't pull over 100 people. I also don't believe in the limited area: most pk clans even set rules to limit the CWA field on certain maps.

 

If we look at CWA from clans' point of view, it offers many benefits. Those fights won't be crashed. You can set the rules to limit combat styles based on rules. You can benefit from FoG items, RC staves, corrupted items or so in f2p, in p2p the advantages are even higher. Yet a vast majority of the serious clans don't use it: it doesn't offer same kind of excitment as wildy, the wins are decided on other things (examples. Matched opts fight = few inexperienced individuals cost the win. Full outs = get outpulled and you're done) than in wildy, generally seen as more unfair ways.

 

Lets take a look at wildy. First of all, it gives more reasons to stay loyal to your clan: you have to sacrifice something else too than just time. It opends more stratefies (proper sniping, outlasting, indimitation, etc) to win the fight. It has an interclan aspect in the form of anticrashers. It gives the chance to feel excitment through loot and gives you an actual reason to actually do the most damage to the piled person. It opens the doors for unexpected pk run ins, clusters and it doesn't require a long preparation to get a decent number of options.

 

I'm definitely not alone with my points. If you go to look at any seriously taken top list, every single top 15 clan does a huge majority of their fights in wildy, yet only a handful of these could pull over the limit of 100 people without at least a few day prep and fitting timezones.

 

I see what you mean about the risk/fear factor playing an important role in PvP, but I don't believe it is absolutely necessary to make PvP complete. Potential solutions for this idea could be allowing players to input a larger-than-normal 'entrance fee' to give them a higher shot at the prize. You could choose how much you risk, and thusly how nervous you will be about dying.

 

I already asked about this, somehow managed to miss the part. Anyways please refer a bit up to find my opinion on the case :P Anyways. If your own investment increases your chances to win the jackpot, what kind of purpose would wins have? How would I benefit from investing 100m to a 10m pool? If your investment increases the chances a lot, it kills the real point of player versus player combats: in a long run only the rich would benefit. If it had only minor chances, why would people invest more than minimum? If I only wanted to risk my money and get excitement, I could aswell invest my money in masses to random things through GE.

 

Also, I'm not necessarily trying to make a new feature, I'm more of trying to fix an old one. If we can fix an old feature by using methods already ingame, there is less programming/work to do on Jagex's part.

 

Lets make this clear. Which parts are you now trying to fix? Your writing reminds me of the duel arena but the topic itself is more concentrated on pvp&bh worlds.

 

If you try to fix duel arean, I'd personally agree that it could go through major chances. However I don't see how would this differ from it, seeing that this would just turn it into more limited (level&gear groups) version on certain aspects and increase the total capacity of a minigame (you were refering to 2k people) that by the looks of it would infact require a cut down in the capacity.

 

If it is pvp&bh, I don't agree with basically anything you've listed. My reasons for this can be found from the replies I've written, including this one.

 

I personally believe the demand would remain stable, as you only gain profit when you have defeated another player (or alternately survived another player's attacks). Yes, there are manipulations around this. Two players could kill each other over and over to try and obtain the 'Jackpot'. The truth is, though, that there is 1/2000th of a chance of obtaining this jackpot, and there is no reason for Jagex not to lower that chance once the system detects that you are killing the same player(s) over and over.

 

Lets take a realistic view. Even if you couldn't do anything else than this, you wouldn't get 2k people to play it at once a month after the update. However if that was somehow possible, your group and level limitations would cut down the number of "Victims". How about peak times? It would be more than easy to just go there on mornings (for Europeans) and find out a relatively empty "level&gear group". With a help of few people (like clan mates arranging fights if this wouldn't kill the clans) it would be more than easy to make sure that person X wins it: let him beat his fights against right people and knock down the "intruders", by brutal force: it's more than likely that if 4 guys have similar stats and gears, the winner is one of the 3 who have allied.

 

PKing in the Lottery Worlds on your zerker pure to make money would work quite well providing you already had a decent amount of cash stored up. In order to succeed, you need armour, a weapon, and consumables, which are unobtainable on Lottery Worlds. There is still reason for training outside of Lottery Worlds and for Boss-Hunting; you need those skills to be raised, you need those higher-level armours, in order to successful get chances at attaining the 'Jackpot'. If you continued to fight other zerker pures whilst wearing low-level armour, but they have obtained better armour, the chances of you winning are worse than if you tried to obtain the best armour for your levels.

 

Why would I need 138 combat and an ags on me if there was combat and gear limits? Why would I train an account to the top category if the more active ones are the ones where people have mid levels and "ok" gear? I could just wear similar gear to bh worlds, train the account to be at the very top of the skill range and that's it.

 

I also don't understand the line "If you continued to fight other zerker pures whilst wearing low-level armour, but they have obtained better armour, the chances of you winning are worse than if you tried to obtain the best armour for your levels." First of all, zerkers don't have too large variety of armours. Secondly, those can be gotten for almost no money at all: every single one who can refer to himself as a zerker should be able to afford at least runite. Thirdly, why would I want to invest on expensive gear if it only put me into a higher gear gategory?

 

Clans should operate in Clan-themed Worlds (Feel free to suggest ideas for those), or in the Clan Wars Arena, which most definitely needs an update.

 

I already explained why PVP>CWA for clans. If you wanted clans to support this, you should just abandon the idea of clan themed worlds. We have those already and they go under the labels of "PvP", "BH" and "BH+1" in the English version of RS. They could get small updates here and there but this major update would only destroy the clan world and cause the biggest "wildy update ever". It would be a bigger chance than from the veryfirst pk system to wildy, BH era, current system and I'd say even bigger than RSC -> RS2 jump.

 

I also like your analogy about my system being "No risk but high benefits", but I would argue that Jagex's current system is this way at the moment aswell. Three players can 76k (Which isn't that much for the average 76ker, and thus little risk) and reap massive benefits. The difference with my system is that the benefits are spread out quasi-randomly, and as of such is unable to be manipulated.

 

If you want to get rid of 76k, you don't remove the whole system. It could be made harder by:

* Removing statues and giving items instead. This would cut down the money created to the game as items would be bought only with money that already is there. If we look at vestas, morrigans and such for example, they don't exactly bring money to the game: a player gets an item, he uses it for a while and then it vanishes. There's temporary added value but no added money. If the player sells it, it means 2 things. 1) Money is transfered from player to player, seller gets the temporary added value of the weapon/armour/item. 2) Prices adjust to the demand and supply.

* Making EP slower to get, add in "forced walking" (=EP time counted from time AND moved steps) and turn upstairs of buildings into nonhotzones, just the way bottom floors are. This makes EP gaining harder and less interesting for people. It gets harder because you can't hide as easily as you can now and you have to spend more time around dangerous zones. This means that you have a higher risk to die as you can't hide as easily as now and you have to be there for a longer period of time.

* Remove the wilderness ditch and add in a longer timer to the "safezone running". This makes it easier to kill people who are in almost no gear at all and thus makes it more dangerous. If something has to be there as a marker, add in a bright barrier that can just be walked through when exiting wilderness and forces you to enter your bank pin when entering. This would force people to care about their security too as it would mean mandatory bank pins for a huge number of people.

 

edit: Bleh, before this edit I've already written over 4.5k words to this topic and with a quick look I hadn't used any smileys. Lets do it now.

:boohoo:

Actually I won't start using smileys too often, these ones are quite horrible.

[elucin8er]

I'm quite sure I just read over 7k words and am feeling exhausted. I'm going to re-read certain points before throwing in my 2 cents. Ow :oops: