Clan loyalty, less important these days?

[Gamerr]

I've been amused lately with the recent happenings, because I think the current clan situation is the consequence of the declining importance of clan loyalty in RuneScape. I'll explain what I mean.

 

These days the amount of clan members who have been in 1 clan only are very rare. Most clan members are loyal, but only for as long it goes well. I often compare those people with sheep. They follow the herd, if a clan is "hot" or "strong" they just join it and so on. True loyal clan people stick to their clan for as long they play RuneScape, for me the only reason to leave a clan is when your vision has become completely the opposite of the staffs ones, or even of your fellow clansmen. However, most RS players are a bit weak, they want succes now, they don't want to build up. I think the succes of clans like VR isn't that they have an exceptional history, that they have legendary leaders but just that they have the numbers. I admit, it's fun to be in a clan that goes out, cleans wild and then act victorious on helpsite forums. Nowadays there are few 'big' clans left, and more & more people are starting their own clan, or joining a clan without really taking the time to explore it. Back when I started to be involved in clans, around '05, people would really compare clans, hang out for a few days (even weeks) before intro-ing/applying & then after a lot of consideration join a clan. Nowadays, you leave your old clan and almost immediately join a new one. I couldn't do that, but a lot of people apperantely can.

 

Ofcourse the declining quality of some clans could be a reason there are less loyal clansmen, but I wonder if that's such an issue. It may sound far fetched, but in RS(2) everything has to go fast. Hardly no building up to something, hardly no patience which is reflected in the insanely fast training methods, the insanely high rewards from bosses and so on. I see that same trend in clans, if it all goes bad, why stay and wait until it becomes better? Let's join another clan which is better now. So I have 2 questions where I would like to see your answers on:

 

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days? 
2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

[Danny_TeamDan]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Important...Does it happen? Not all the time. I 'd says it's more important than older clan days because it's hard to keep a clan going.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

Some clans do a good job, I think in almost any top 10 clan if you want to be 'retired' you have to have been there for certain amount of time. Also you have to be in the clan for so long to gain rank. Other clans can't offer this or choose not too.

[DFWILL]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

 

~ Extremely important.. without loyal members most clans wouldnt survive. I love downfall's core base of members that joined within the first month of downfall.. most our core members are still with us and keep us rolling.

 

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

~ Probably... everyone in downfall knows and respects our older members.

[Uffan5]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Not very imporant, it astounds me how many people clan hop and join clans that are going good instead of sticking with a clan.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

Yes, as long as they are giving that same respect back to the clan.

[Beckingham]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Not that important, although it should be. These days a lot of people join a clan just because they have a friend or a couple friends in the clan, they don't really consider the clan as a whole when they make their deciscion. This leads to a lot of personal loyalty where groups of friends will stick together, but very little clan loyalty.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

In my experience yes, but all the clans I've been a part of have been fairly new so I can't really speak to that.

[zq50]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Extremely important because if you do not have loyal members than nobody will bring binds nobody will stay with pile and nobody will make friends because they will be inactive.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

No since I see people make fun of old school downfall members daily in cc and irc

[The Observer]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

It's important so that you don't have mass-leavings which can cripple a clan. Loyalty also involves constant binding, returning, spamming and activity which are the basics of any clan.

 

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

Most of the time, yes because if they last long enough, they will become ranked or at least well known in the clan community.

[Pan_Nx]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Still as important as it was back in the day. All clans strive from their memberbase. To get to the top, you have to go through slumps. To make it through slumps, you have to have loyal members.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

For the most part, yes.

[Nobody]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days? Not very in some clans.

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still receive the respect they deserve? In some clans yes, like emeritus or retired. :P

[True_Ownage]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Loyalty is just as important as it used to be. Infact it's probably more important as fights have evolved from full outs and matched to time caps and uncapped fights meaning people risk losing far more rune to see their clan succeed.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

Definitely. Not the greatest example here, but you saw it in Legendz, when the long lasting members split off you saw the clan almost disintergrate. This just goes to show that the long lasting members are usually important to the clan, and deserve to be respected just as much as leadership is, as the clan wouldn't be the same without them.

[thiesje]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Important, for some.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

Yes.

 

Personally I feel more like building up the clan you're in instead of joining a better one, I never left a clan for another.

[Pieter_00777]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

 

To be honest I think it's the most important that a clan can have, the more loyal and dedicated your members will be to the clan, the better the clan will be...

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

Yes but it's hard to keep in mind for new members, example; if you'd join a clan then it's not that you'll say "Welcome this is the list of 'die-hards', so respect them, you got that?", it's maybe a bit exaggerated but it's not like that really happens as far as I know... But to get on topic again, I think they should recieve the respect and they will from me...

[mrmyk]

The situation was the same in 2004-7. There are always those who join clans expecting success, and leave when their dreams aren't realised. It's a cruel reality, but it's nothing that we can verify.

 

It would be possible to say that clan loyalty is greater than ever, in fact. Who would return for ~12 hours back in 2005? I'm sure a few would, but a large amount of members in the largest clans would return for that length of time nowadays. It's insane.

[obfuscator]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

 

Unfortunately, not very. People seem to want everything, and don't want to work for it. The "rise and fall" of many clans unfortunately depends on the whims of hundreds of unreliable clanners - and certainly the "clan hopper" has become the new norm as far as top clans are concerned.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

I think its more on a case by case basis, for example there were several ranks in SE given out for time spent with the clan. I'd say the senior members were very respected, which is shown by how many we had, so I guess there was loyalty there.

[Kimberly]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

 

Loyalty in clans is always an immeasurable quantity in high demand. Clans need that core group of people who are willing to return a bit more than everyone else, who are willing to take some time out of their day to hang out with other members, who are willing to step up. Those core group of people are more influential than the leadership can be--they are generally the more active face of the clan that new members can identify. They'll set the tone of the community, and the attitude for success.

 

One clan had a stellar, mature community. They were close-knit and happy together, both retired members and active members. But as the ratio from retired:member skewed to the other end of the spectrum and those core members retired, no one started to shape that new feeling. The community became depressed and self-loathing, yet still in a few random individuals streaked with pride and a small, smouldering hope that things would come alive again...sadly those few were those who should've retired long ago, and simply couldn't be active enough to get the ball rolling. That core group was gone, and none of the newbies knew how to do it--how could they? Their role models were gone.

 

Apply that same mentality to what's happening now. Look at the trends. While it's not a perfect fit, which seldom happens anyway, the situations between the clan community and one insignificant clan are eerily similar.

 

Ask yourself, where has your role model gone? Who do you aspire to?

 

Are you just in your clan for the rune? Are you there because it's now become your habit? If so, you're no better than the w141 clan'ers out there. Clans are a place of community and self-improvement--or at least, once upon a time they were.

 

And while this isn't a fairy tale, I find myself wishing for that 'once upon a time' to return, and fast.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

It depends on the individual. Like stated before, there can be those long-lasting members in a clan who are no better than vegetables on life-support. While they might have legitimate reasons for not being more active, they also don't know when to call it quits. They always think, "Well this will change soon!" By my experience, this never really happens. Yet they've been in the clan for so long, it's almost taboo to confront them on it. It's almost like how you'd scold your ailing grandfather, and he'd start telling you about how he fought for your freedom in Vietnam.

 

There are some long-lasting members who withstood the test of time. Ghjff, for example. Yes, Damage Inc did close in the end; but all throughout that clan's history, he was there as a long lasting, semi-active member.

[Gamerr]

Who would return for ~12 hours back in 2005? I'm sure a few would, but a large amount of members in the largest clans would return for that length of time nowadays. It's insane.

 

I don't consider returning for 12 hours being loyal. I consider that having nothing better to do then sitting behind a PC for 12 (twelve!) hours to fight out some e-fight that doesn't even require any skill.

[Lukeeeeee]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days? depends on how "big" the clan is, in vr's case its not needed but in downfalls case we have the core members who have stuck through thick and thin and still go on (not just since the start but since the start of the year) :razz:

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve? yes and no

honestly it depends on how they treat others and if they respect others they will get it back but if not maybe they wont

[decebal]

Tbh, loyalty has been going down lately. I'm actually wondering how many clans yu guys have gone through...

[Dbzruler72]

My mindset in '05 was that most applicants would know a clan and its members before joining. That's the sensible route to take. Nowadays players join clans, find out they don't like them, and hop to another clan. Why waste your and the other clan's time? To be honest, I haven't even thought of loyalty in clans for the past two years. Shows how much things have changed.

 

As for veterans, the fact that they have lived through their clan's disappointments, slumps, and failures for so long garners my respect.

[Kimberly]

Nowadays players join clans, find out they don't like them, and hop to another clan. Why waste your and the other clan's time?

 

What's the bigger waste of time: joining a clan to try it out and then leaving once you decide you don't like it or staying in a clan as a half-assed, inactive member for some inane sense of 'honor'? I'd rather be labeled a 'clan hopper' than just another inactive face in the crowd.

 

I got a feel of a clan's community by idling in their IRC. I didn't really know anyone, but I liked what their community looked like on the outside. So I joined. A month later, I found out that it really wasn't the clan for me and I couldn't dedicate enough time to it, and I left. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I consider it a 'waste of time'. For the time I was in that clan, I gave 100%, loved it heart and soul, and posted as often as I could to get closer to the community. I didn't waste their time, and they didn't waste mine. It was a fair exchange.

 

I don't know if you had extreme amounts of luck when you were looking at a clan once upon a time, or maybe you've just been a leader for too long, but not a lot of clans are the same in public as they are within their community.

[Dbzruler72]

I don't know if you had extreme amounts of luck when you were looking at a clan once upon a time, or maybe you've just been a leader for too long, but not a lot of clans are the same in public as they are within their community.

I've never looked for another clan. Founding PKM was my start into the clan world. I understand the public appearance of a clan shouldn't be the reason for joining. Explanation:

Nowadays players join clans, find out they don't like them, and hop to another clan. Why waste your and the other clan's time?

What's the bigger waste of time: joining a clan to try it out and then leaving once you decide you don't like it or staying in a clan as a half-assed, inactive member for some inane sense of 'honor'? I'd rather be labeled a 'clan hopper' than just another inactive face in the crowd.

 

I got a feel of a clan's community by idling in their IRC. I didn't really know anyone, but I liked what their community looked like on the outside. So I joined. A month later, I found out that it really wasn't the clan for me and I couldn't dedicate enough time to it, and I left. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I consider it a 'waste of time'. For the time I was in that clan, I gave 100%, loved it heart and soul, and posted as often as I could to get closer to the community. I didn't waste their time, and they didn't waste mine. It was a fair exchange.

At first your story first confused me, but I then realized we're both basing our arguments on two different motives for leaving. In my post, my definition of getting to know a clan was idling in their IRC, watching their videos, and reading their topics--essentially everything community. But what I didn't consider was the reason you left: its inner workings--events, rules, and structure. You left because of the clan's fundamentals, not its community, therefore a revised version of my post should be "My mindset in '05 was that most applicants would know a clan's community before joining." In your case, because you got to know the clan beforehand and gave your full effort, I have to agree that you did not waste any time at all.

[Kimberly]

But what I'm trying to say is that getting to know a clan's community is either impossible due to their structure or misleading. I thought the clan's community was one thing, but then experience proved it to be something else. (Yes I partially couldn't be active enough for it too, but that wasn't my main factor for leaving.) So given this, why is it particularly necessary for a person to invest all that time when they could end up being horribly mislead? That would be a waste of time. And a person shouldn't be penalized for that or mislabeled just because of this.

[Dbzruler72]

That's what I'm saying too. I don't think we're on the same page :P

[armybuilder]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

Well personally i think its the loyal members that make the backbone of the clan. Without there commitment then youve get no where and new members that are loyal are hard to find. You could go through 2 ,3 ,4 recurits before youll find one who will stay

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

 

Umm sometimes. You earn respect. Just because youve been around for along time doesnt mean you deserve respect. You earn that. Yes they should be recgonised but you earn respect. However on my own part most people do recieve respect for the length of time but usualy there is something that goes along side that as well

[Mago]

1. How important is loyalty in clans these days?

A bit.

 

2. Do long lasting members in a clan still recieve the respect they deserve?

Yeah , always !