Whaling

[Jeffwilson99]

I'm not how many of you are aware of this story, but a few days ago Japanese whalers and memembers of the anti-whaling organisation Sea Shepherd clashed in the Antartic ocean. In this encounter a Japanese ship and a New Zealand registered ship collided, cutting the smaller protesting vessel in two at the bow.

 

 

The full story can be found here

 

Both sides are blaming each other for the incident, and it appears they are both at fault for the incident. All three videos of the incident can be viewed on this Youtube account.

 

 

Sea Shepherd have been critised by many, including the goverments of Australia and New Zealand for their behaviour, as it endangers lives at sea...

 

What is your opinion of the actions of both parties?

 

 

Personally I support the actions of Sea Shepherd, I think governments have been far too passive in their attempts to prevent whaling. For many years whales have been blatantly slaughtered under the guise of "scienctific research".

[Wongtong]

Ady Gil!! I actually met the owner of the ship last year.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on this issue. However, I dislike it when people are enraged about Japanese people eating whales - it is just like any other animal e.g pig, chicken, squirrel (??? I think this is weird but I guess some people eat it, and I accept that fact without getting racist or discriminatory). It is also part of their culture.

 

On the other hand, I believe killing whales under the guise of 'scientific research' is appauling, especially when the whales slaughtered generally end up cooked.

[i_love_burritos]

I agree with your last statement. Their "research" has been going on since 1985.

 

PM Rudd even threatened to take "international legal action" if, they kept whaling within the Antaractic Australian territory.

[Jeffwilson99]

Ady Gil!! I actually met the owner of the ship last year.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on this issue. However, I dislike it when people are enraged about Japanese people eating whales - it is just like any other animal e.g pig, chicken, squirrel (??? I think this is weird but I guess some people eat it, and I accept that fact without getting racist or discriminatory). It is also part of their culture.

 

On the other hand, I believe killing whales under the guise of 'scientific research' is appauling, especially when the whales slaughtered generally end up cooked.

 

 

It's not so much eating I disagree with, it the fact that whales are critically endangered, yet thousands are slaughtered as part of scientific research. Research which is "deemed" necessary in order to gain tissue samples in order to understand more about whale population. These tissue samples end up in Japanese fish markets...

 

It's pretty obvious that non-lethal research methods can be used, as both New Zealand and Australian studies have been under taken.

 

And I feel for Pete Bethune, he has put a lot into his boat, his house has been mortaged 3 times, and now his vessel lies on the bottom of the Antartic.

[Perakp]

Save the whales :thumbup:

 

I boycot Japan cos whales are hawt.

[Wizz]

Sea Shepherds methods are a bit...

Radical and Vigilante.

[Wongtong]

Ady Gil!! I actually met the owner of the ship last year.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on this issue. However, I dislike it when people are enraged about Japanese people eating whales - it is just like any other animal e.g pig, chicken, squirrel (??? I think this is weird but I guess some people eat it, and I accept that fact without getting racist or discriminatory). It is also part of their culture.

 

On the other hand, I believe killing whales under the guise of 'scientific research' is appauling, especially when the whales slaughtered generally end up cooked.

It's not so much eating I disagree with, it the fact that whales are critically endangered, yet thousands are slaughtered as part of scientific research. Research which is "deemed" necessary in order to gain tissue samples in order to understand more about whale population. These tissue samples end up in Japanese fish markets...

 

It's pretty obvious that non-lethal research methods can be used, as both New Zealand and Australian studies have been under taken.

 

And I feel for Pete Bethune, he has put a lot into his boat, his house has been mortaged 3 times, and now his vessel lies on the bottom of the Antartic.

Yeah, I just find it annoying when people drag the whole "EATING WHALE IS WEIRD BECAUSE I'VE NEVER EATEN A WHALE BEFORE" point into an argument like this :P (hopefully no one will in this thread..)

 

I think it will be almost impossible to stop people from whaling until whales are extinct.

 

 

Bethune is crazy, he used his own fat to make petrol. But yeah, I guess that's what happens when you pose a threat to Japanese whaler ships right?

[Saradomin_Mage]

Sounds like another environmental organisation trying to take a stab at a very long running tradition. Give the Asians a break, and go back to slaughtering your dodos, really.

Sea Shepherds are too radical a group for the likes of me.

[Jeffwilson99]

Sounds like another environmental organisation trying to take a stab at a very long running tradition. Give the Asians a break, and go back to slaughtering your dodos, really.

Sea Shepherds are too radical a group for the likes of me.

 

 

Just because something is "long running", why does that mean it should continue? War and racism are both "long running", but do you think they should continue unopposed?

 

And Sea Sheperd are not taking a stab at Asians, or just Japan - they are highly crictical of governments around the world that have so far been ineffectual in prevent further slaughter of whales.

[Saradomin_Mage]

What about the other species that are threatened or endangered? Tuna species are overfished and their stocks largely depleted, yet there is not the same degree of fervour in protecting them as compared to whales.

 

Leaving that issue of the discussion aside, I think the main point I want to make is that the Sea Shepherds use too radical a method to try to stop whaling. You can't expect to go up against a Japanese whaling vessel and try to stop them without getting into serious trouble. This isn't the first time it has happened.

[i_love_burritos]

What about the other species that are threatened or endangered? Tuna species are overfished and their stocks largely depleted, yet there is not the same degree of fervour in protecting them as compared to whales.

 

Leaving that issue of the discussion aside, I think the main point I want to make is that the Sea Shepherds use too radical a method to try to stop whaling. You can't expect to go up against a Japanese whaling vessel and try to stop them without getting into serious trouble. This isn't the first time it has happened.

 

Japan have been intransigent, almost willingly slow and stubborn to react to any other means of "diplomacy".

 

And to your first point, is that bad ? Hell, lets stop consveration of all endangered species because some are recieving more attention than others. That same thought could to applied to charities, youth groups, etcetera.

[Saradomin_Mage]

What about the other species that are threatened or endangered? Tuna species are overfished and their stocks largely depleted, yet there is not the same degree of fervour in protecting them as compared to whales.

 

Leaving that issue of the discussion aside, I think the main point I want to make is that the Sea Shepherds use too radical a method to try to stop whaling. You can't expect to go up against a Japanese whaling vessel and try to stop them without getting into serious trouble. This isn't the first time it has happened.

 

Japan have been intransigent, almost willingly slow and stubborn to react to any other means of "diplomacy".

 

And to your first point, is that bad ? Hell, lets stop consveration of all endangered species because some are recieving more attention than others. That same thought could to applied to charities, youth groups, etcetera.

My issue is, how is the consumption of tuna by most of the world different in any way from the consumption of whale meat? People eat both, so there needs to be a supply of meat both ways.

[1_man_army]

I don't agree with whaling because it is putting numerous whale species at risk of extinction and it is quite needlessly cruel. Japan's excuse of whaling for "research" is a cop out so they can continue to comercially whale. Comparing whaling to the comsumption of other meat isn't a great comparison either; most widely consumed animal meat can be produced without being so needlessly cruel. Also, most meat that is widely consumed doesn't come from endangered animals (as many whale species are). I don't think we should be consuming any species of animals to the extent where they are at risk of extinction.

 

I don't like Traditional Chinese Medicine either for similar. The use of some ingredients in TCM are putting several species of animals at risk of extinction as well.

[ElkNight]

I'm surprised no one has posted this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkmuKvYBgE8&feature=related

[Dizzle229]

"We're whalers on the moon. We carry a harpoon. But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales and sing a whaling toon."

 

Relevance.

[Lenin64]

I fully support whaling, but on a few conditions: All whalers should put themselves on equal ground with the beast. That is to say, the former wooden ships, lowering the smaller whaleboats and darting the lance by means of arm power, not no hydraulic harpoon guns. Where you have as much chance of surviving as the whale does. All this new technology and whatnot is taking away any sense of an honorable bout, like shooting a deer that they've tied up beforehand.

 

But that'll never happen again, and the whales need some time to repopulate before we take them again, so I am against the modern whaling fleets. And we don't even need whale oil anymore anyways, though the meat issue is still valid.

[scootlaboot]

"We're whalers on the moon. We carry a harpoon. But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales and sing a whaling toon."

 

Relevance.

Nappa: "I've had a helluva day Vagetta, I sunk their battleship...and their whales."

Aquaman: "Noooooooooooo!"

 

Seriously though, it is a cultural thing and, sort of like that tribe of Native Americans who have that treaty/contract with the U.S. government, we really can't do anything.

 

@Lenin, I fully agree with the top part of your post.

[fastortoise]

What about the other species that are threatened or endangered? Tuna species are overfished and their stocks largely depleted, yet there is not the same degree of fervour in protecting them as compared to whales.

 

Leaving that issue of the discussion aside, I think the main point I want to make is that the Sea Shepherds use too radical a method to try to stop whaling. You can't expect to go up against a Japanese whaling vessel and try to stop them without getting into serious trouble. This isn't the first time it has happened.

 

Japan have been intransigent, almost willingly slow and stubborn to react to any other means of "diplomacy".

 

And to your first point, is that bad ? Hell, lets stop consveration of all endangered species because some are recieving more attention than others. That same thought could to applied to charities, youth groups, etcetera.

My issue is, how is the consumption of tuna by most of the world different in any way from the consumption of whale meat? People eat both, so there needs to be a supply of meat both ways.

Eh? There's plenty of laws that regulate how much of an animal is commercially hunted. And I know the one SPECIFICALLY for tuna is in the process of being passed. There's atleast 2 species of fish that are commercially hunted in Canada that are on the control list, they would be endangered by now if they weren't.

 

The only clearminded explanation on why Japan, a highly developed country, is still aggressively whaling is in a South Park episode.

[Jeffwilson99]

I'm surprised no one has posted this video.

 

 

Well I posted a link to a Youtube Channel that has all three videos.

 

I fully support whaling, but on a few conditions: All whalers should put themselves on equal ground with the beast. That is to say, the former wooden ships, lowering the smaller whaleboats and darting the lance by means of arm power, not no hydraulic harpoon guns. Where you have as much chance of surviving as the whale does. All this new technology and whatnot is taking away any sense of an honorable bout, like shooting a deer that they've tied up beforehand.

 

But that'll never happen again, and the whales need some time to repopulate before we take them again, so I am against the modern whaling fleets. And we don't even need whale oil anymore anyways, though the meat issue is still valid.

 

 

Well I don't really agree with that. The problem with the modern whaling fleets is that it makes it so easy to kill large numbers of whales, very quickly. Sure, they won't be able to kill whales as easily or quickly in little wooden boats, but it still an inhumane method of killing. As well as that it endangers the life of whalers.

 

Whales are similar to humans in regards to reproduction: they take a fair amount of time to reach sexual maturity (up to 20 or so in some species), only give birth to one offspring at time and the offspring is dependant on the mother for several years. Because of this, the populations take a very, very long time to recover - especially compared to fish, you can't just leave them for a few years and expect their numbers to rebound easily. So even these "scientific" killings are endangering whale populations and hindering population recovery.

[warren211]

I found the TV show about this very debate on Animal Planet to be absolutely thrilling. I totally support Sea Shepherds, I believe that their cause is righteous. They have always tried to use non-lethal methods of geting the whalers to stop. Yet in several episodes you can clearly see the japanese retaliating in a violent and dangerous manner, including throwing bolts at the unarmed crew of small powerboats used in the missions. If you ask me something needs to be soon, but Austraila and New Zealand are too afraid of getting caught in confrontation with the Netherlends (the country whos flag the Sea Shepherds sail under) and Japan.

[Ouchy]

In light of what happened to the Ady Gil I think they are at fault here. You can see them idling and letting the Japanese ship pass, before accelerating forward. Don't get me wrong I am certainly a kiwi, and definently hate whaling, thinking it is cruel and wrong, but i'm not bias.

[Jeffwilson99]

I found the TV show about this very debate on Animal Planet to be absolutely thrilling. I totally support Sea Shepherds, I believe that their cause is righteous. They have always tried to use non-lethal methods of geting the whalers to stop. Yet in several episodes you can clearly see the japanese retaliating in a violent and dangerous manner, including throwing bolts at the unarmed crew of small powerboats used in the missions. If you ask me something needs to be soon, but Austraila and New Zealand are too afraid of getting caught in confrontation with the Netherlends (the country whos flag the Sea Shepherds sail under) and Japan.

 

I think in New Zealand's case, members of the goverment are afraid of imposing sanctions against Japan, or boycotting their products because Japan is an important economic trading partner.

 

In light of what happened to the Ady Gil I think they are at fault here. You can see them idling and letting the Japanese ship pass, before accelerating forward. Don't get me wrong I am certainly a kiwi, and definently hate whaling, thinking it is cruel and wrong, but i'm not bias.

 

 

Well both parties are cearly at fault, if you look at the video from the other Sea Shepherd vessel, you can see that the Japanese boat clearly turns towards the Ady Gil.

[Nero]

Ramming speed! Yeah!

[The Dark Lord]

Surprised no one has posted this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0HdUUKKCk&feature=related

 

"We will never forget, never rest until they are all wiped out. [bleep] you... [bleep] you dolphin and whaaale!"

[depresins]

The only issue I have with it are when a whaling vessel passes through our coastal waters which they have recognised as ours. Japan doesn't recognise anybodies claim to land or waters in and around Antarctica except their own.

 

I say whenever they enter our coastal waters we should attack. Same as with asylum seekers.