The F2P General Discussion Thread

[levine1996]

Spear is irrefutably the better choice...Having all 3 attack styles alone makes it worth binding over a 2h. That having been said, I think a better setup than the one I mentioned before might be spear, cosmics, gaunts, and then at level 100 a 2h because of the inaccuracy of a spear's slash attack. The 2h's slash option would be utilized against shades and zombies in particular.

[Hedgehog]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AheuzHmAkHUNdGNWaVJPVllXTEEwVUhoZm9lRHdTd3c

 

Spear is higher raw dps, but due to its low slash stat, it's going to be much worse for pathing, since you can't effectively solo gds. The stab is negligible because there's like 2 stab-weak monsters in the whole skill.

[Kaida23]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AheuzHmAkHUNdGNWaVJPVllXTEEwVUhoZm9lRHdTd3c

 

Spear is higher raw dps, but due to its low slash stat, it's going to be much worse for pathing, since you can't effectively solo gds. The stab is negligible because there's like 2 stab-weak monsters in the whole skill.

So, given the amount of slash-weak monsters, would the 2H be a better bind for soloing?

[dire1]

I usually use a 2H probably because I dg for fun... and I'm too lazy to change my binds. With a 2H you can heal others/ pick up stuff/ bunch of other stuff between hits cuz it's slightly slower, but idk how well that applies to soloing..

[levine1996]

Spear with stab and 15% attack pray is sufficient on all lower level monsters in f2p. Higher level brutes are weak to stab, I believe. The spear's crush against medium leveled warriors with 15% attack prayer is okay. Against the highest level warriors, you can't hit at all with melee in f2p. Stab with prayer against rangers is fine. Stab with prayer against mages is fine. Stab is fine against guard dogs and also spiders. The highest level spiders can easily be hit with crush. The crush works well for skeletal horde. The stab is fine against low and med level shades as well as zombies. At higher levels, the slash suffices with prayer. At the highest levels, I think having a 2h as a third bind might come in handy...that having been said, you VERY rarely see these levels in solo or 2cb3sk dungeons. The way I see it, the only boss in f2p where stab isn't acceptable is skeletal horde. Not because it won't work, but because crush is so effective.

 

tl;dr: While I understand your rationale about few monsters being weak to stab, you VERY rarely come across a monster in f2p with high enough def that you will have trouble because you have a spear. F2P dungeoneering 2cb3sk style is designed so that you don't face tough monsters.

[Hedgehog]

Well, slash is higher dps against most of the monsters you mentioned. Mathematically, the 2h is a much better bind, especially since f2p floors are pretty much duos. I don't know anything about monster distribution and level distribution in f2p, so if most monsters are extremely low def, then a spear would be better, but I highly doubt it.

[levine1996]

There is a defence rating cutoff that would determine which is actually better DPS. Admittedly, I don't know how to calculate that.

 

 

"...so if most monsters are extremely low def, then a spear would be better, but I highly doubt it."

 

That's where you're not exactly right. The monster are extremely low def. This is the result of the fact that usually you're a level 110 cber up against monsters put into the dungeon for a level 46 player. (110 cb + 110 cb + 3sk + 3sk + 3sk)/5.

 

From my understanding, attacking a monster's weakness in a dungeon is much more of a significant factor in p2p dungeons. If you do 35 floors, usually the monster with the highest melee defense that is not a boss is something like a level 60something warrior. Still, this is relatively easily taken down by a player with 85 attack, attack pray on, and a spear's crush.

 

Once you move onto bosses, however, the defence increases significantly. Having a stab against a level 91 pummeler is essential. The same goes for a level 104 plane-freezer. While a 2h would be useful against saggitare, you very rarely encounter him in f2p with anything aside from a combat level of 67, which you'll nearly never miss against with your spear's stab, much less its slash. The stab is also invaluable against Riftsplitter, and I'm sure others that I can't think of at the moment. There are zero f2p bosses that requre slash.

[Hedgehog]

2h is better at a 769 slash def rating (68.9 defense) and 2250 crush def rating (217 defense).

[levine1996]

I really don't understand how def ratings work, sorry. Could you explain what that means, please?

[Hedgehog]

It's the max defense roll

[Misaki]

Monsters weak to stab: 2/3 Forgotten warriors, giant rat, giant bat, hill giant, brute, guard dog, hobgoblin, forgotten rangers, trolls

Monsters weak to slash: Zombies, shades, pickaxes, forgotten mages

 

and, p2p players used SPEARS before ring classes came out.

 

idk m8

[levine1996]

I've never encountered a mage that I couldn't successfully hit consistently with stab on my spear in a dungeon. Switch that over to weak to stab. Not sure I agree with the warriors, however. I use crush with my spear on the stronger ones in platebodies.

 

Hedgehog, I seriously don't know exactly how defence rolls and such work. I'm not trying to ignore your point, but perhaps if you could give me some further insight or a link to an explanation, I could understand better.

[Hedgehog]

Monsters weak to stab: 2/3 Forgotten warriors, giant rat, giant bat, hill giant, brute, guard dog, hobgoblin, forgotten rangers, trolls

Monsters weak to slash: Zombies, shades, pickaxes, forgotten mages

 

and, p2p players used SPEARS before ring classes came out.

 

idk m8

 

Forgotten warriors are weak to slash without armor. If they have armor, then use whatever the armor is weak to. Hill giants are slash. Brutes are csb'd, idk about f2p. Rangers are slash. That leaves rats (which are low def to everything, anyway), bats, guard dogs, and hobgoblins (who have a low crush rating). Basically, stab is really only useful on bats and dogs, and possibly better on hobgoblins and brutes, and only marginally. But as my calculations showed, spear>2h on things like high lvl skeles and warriors, and most slash monsters. I can't outright say one's better than the other, though.

[levine1996]

I'll raise the point once more that it is essential for an f2p'er to have a stab option against most dungeoneering bosses.

[Misaki]

I am pretty sure that the monsters I listed that are weak to stab, and are weaker to stab than slash.

 

Maybe because you're p2p, you're only limited to the options of slash and crush, which slash might trump crush.

[Makkaravelho]

 

Gave it a shot myself, got some good luck though. Might try it again sometime :P

 

Seems to depend alot on bosses. Stuff like skeletal horde took me 3 and a half mins or so, Astea depending on her prayers took 2:50-3:20 or so, behemoth was cake.

 

But this did kinda give me hope, maybe I don't suck so bad at Dg after all :P

[Killhim9612]

GUYS SRSLY

Discuss Meneer Naab's goal to 200 meters exp in all skills...

Quote from him:

"HAi guys ye im going for 200 meters all f2p skills. Gl me and i'm accepting all donations (10k+ only plox). BTW ILOVE DURE (me@!!!!!!!111!!!)"

So yeah. Leaked, discuss dis pl0x

[Hedgehog]

I am pretty sure that the monsters I listed that are weak to stab, and are weaker to stab than slash.

 

Maybe because you're p2p, you're only limited to the options of slash and crush, which slash might trump crush.

Maybe the high stab bonus of the spear makes them appear to be weak to stab, but they have a lower slash defense. I'd also like to make a correction to my other post; 2h is better on higher leveled crush monsters, like skeletons and forgotten warriors, and on high level slash monster, like mage skeletons, forgotten rangers, etc. I also did some digging, and the difference between slash and stab on low level rangers is almost negligible, in fact it only maxes at 21 on the highest tier.

 

So, yeah, I'd recommend a spear.

[levine1996]

Glad you came to your senses, Hedgehog! Kidding obviously, thank you for doing your research and calcs for clarification purposes.

 

I finally stopped being lazy, and switched out my laws for a new cosmic bind. Probably makes 70-80% of solos go faster than they would have been, and 20-30% go slower.

 

I'm getting faster, but it still appears that you guys are utilizing some strategy that I'm not.

 

[Youmu]

Haven't played in a long while but about the bosses thing, you're wrong on a few points Levine.

 

Tokash is crush weak and Ballak is slash weak. I also find that Astea, Lexicus and Sagittare are also slightly weaker to slash than they are to stab. It also doesn't matter what style you use on Skeletal Horde, all of their defenses are abnormally low so just stab them if using a spear. Cursebearer is probably also crush-weak, but he's probably low defense all, like the behemoths (not Stomp, he is slash-weak).

 

Has anything in the f2p game changed at all? I'm probably never going to come back to this game though.

 

And I will say this again: DO NOT BIND ARMOR OF ANY TYPE THAT IS NOT FRACTITE GAUNTLETS OR BOOTS.

[Kaida23]

Has anything in the f2p game changed at all? I'm probably never going to come back to this game though.

Aside from the lack of bots? Not that I've noticed. The toolbelt/money pouch is useful for clearing up bank spots though.

 

I finally got in to do a couple of floors with my gauntlets (first time since reaching 50) and I have to say they made a noticeable difference. If you have lower combat stats (I'm 68 - 55 att/str/con, 54 def), then I highly recommend this for a second bind. :thumbup:

[wormy]

Back to talking about how expensive prayer is.

 

I really do not want to try to merch up the ~400m. I am also not into "make money via X, and buy and bury" So I think my options are; bone yard(not an option to me), hill giants, or lessers with urns.

 

Between lessers and hillies which is quicker?

Lessers will make more money on the side. And lack of picking up bones and burying mid shots is a plus.

 

Def level 97 range 95, I would range the hills with g dhide body and maple short.

Not entirely sure on the lessers, I will probably not safe 100%, so is rune plate with sighted even close to maple short in killing speed?

[Kaida23]

From what I understand, the sighted only makes a difference in PvP. For training, the short is still fastest.

[wormy]

In terms of safespotting yes, but does the protective power of the plate offset the time used to get food? That is the trickier estimate.

 

I am going to assume hills are much quicker, less than half the lp, does not hit, spawn quick.

With all that said I think I will do lessers.

[NJE03]

Back to talking about how expensive prayer is.

 

I really do not want to try to merch up the ~400m. I am also not into "make money via X, and buy and bury" So I think my options are; bone yard(not an option to me), hill giants, or lessers with urns.

 

Between lessers and hillies which is quicker?

Lessers will make more money on the side. And lack of picking up bones and burying mid shots is a plus.

 

Def level 97 range 95, I would range the hills with g dhide body and maple short.

Not entirely sure on the lessers, I will probably not safe 100%, so is rune plate with sighted even close to maple short in killing speed?

The lesser demons in the resource dungeon is a good place to safe using the rocks (after they go non-aggressive). However the hill giant resource dungeon is much faster prayer experience and potentially far more profitable if you decide to gather and bank limpwurt roots. Both of these locations are usually fairly empty in my experience.