Merre Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hey everyone, I've been slaying alot lately again. After hitting the L85 I didn't feel like slaying alot anymore.But since it's good cash and less boring than most skill I decided to get on and level again.I'm halfway to L87 now and did like 20-30 tasks at Kuradal master.It's way easy now to do greater demons or abby demons etc with the ferocious ring.In the beginning I found it silly not to use ring of wealth but I soon noticed the extra hits u do make a huge difference.I've never ever had a dragon drop and guess what: 5th task or so without ROW and I get a left shield part!Isn't this just incredible??? I've killed tons of dust devils, fire giants and never gotten a d drop. Now that I drop the row I get a d drop within 5 tasks??? I know everyone is gonna say 'it's just random' or 'you were just unlucky'...Well that's just nonsense... *sells ROW and always use fero/slayer ring from now on* 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauke Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 You seem to lack any knowledge about statistics and probability. Twitter ||| Google+ ||| Facebook ||| LinkedIn ||| My very interesting weblog about science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peronix Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 No, it's just such a negligible effect that you should be using fero ring anyway for faster kills and thus more drops and thus more of a chance for rares than RoW would ever give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 ROW isn't a placebo it jsut isn't that useful. Basically the analogy is the drops are like roulette wheels The common drop roulette wheels spins and has maybe 10 "numbers" it can land on that say go to next wheelIn this case the uncommon drop wheel spins this has say 2 "numbers" that send us to rare drops wheelThen the rare drops wheel spins. ROW increases the number of slots on the uncommon wheel that send us to the rare wheel.The flaw HOWEVER is that the common, uncommon, rare wheels are solely for universal drops with "rare" drops being simply things like the big coin piles or rune piles monsters CAN drop. Most of the drops considered rare by PLAYERS (eg gs shards, dragon items etc) belong to the Bonus Drops Wheel. This wheel ALWAYS spins alongside the common - rare wheel and has ALOT of blank spots, but also has these coveted drops like visage etc on it. This is why when you get these rare drops they are always with a normal drop eg u get visage AND a coin pile. ROW does not effect the Bonus Drops Wheel so thus has no effect on what alot of people assume it does effect. Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Agreed, but if you slay till L86 without d drops and then u don't wear the ROW anymore due to better hits of FR, isn't it something to think about then if u suddenly do get a rare d drop + 2 r chains + 3 ferocious rings + 2 key halfs in 210 kills??? (updated)Makes me wonder how much ROW actually helps :blink: You seem to lack any knowledge about statistics and probability. And you seem to miss the point of my topic. I wondered if others noticed the same, I didn't ask for a lowlife comment. "Help and advice" not "useless and arrogant reply"... :shame: 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauke Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 ROW isn't a placebo it jsut isn't that useful. Basically the analogy is the drops are like roulette wheels The common drop roulette wheels spins and has maybe 10 "numbers" it can land on that say go to next wheelIn this case the uncommon drop wheel spins this has say 2 "numbers" that send us to rare drops wheelThen the rare drops wheel spins. ROW increases the number of slots on the uncommon wheel that send us to the rare wheel.The flaw HOWEVER is that the common, uncommon, rare wheels are solely for universal drops with "rare" drops being simply things like the big coin piles or rune piles monsters CAN drop. Most of the drops considered rare by PLAYERS (eg gs shards, dragon items etc) belong to the Bonus Drops Wheel. This wheel ALWAYS spins alongside the common - rare wheel and has ALOT of blank spots, but also has these coveted drops like visage etc on it. This is why when you get these rare drops they are always with a normal drop eg u get visage AND a coin pile. ROW does not effect the Bonus Drops Wheel so thus has no effect on what alot of people assume it does effect.Aside from that, a N=1 does not say anything about how a ROW does or does not increase probability on a rare item. With extremely rare items, an extremely large sample size is needed to measure effects irregardless of what the exact mechanism is by which a rare drop is calculated. You'd need to try getting ~50 rare drops with and without ROW, for example. Then you'd be seeing some effects. Twitter ||| Google+ ||| Facebook ||| LinkedIn ||| My very interesting weblog about science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire_Wolf Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Honestly i got a Shield left half without ROW also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Honestly i got a Shield left half without ROW also... That's my point. Certain drops are very rare, but most people seem to get these rare drops without ROW.I heard it many times before people soloing KQ solo with life ring and getting a chain every 15 kills. When they duo with ROW they didn't get one in 9 days a row :blink: 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 ROW isn't a placebo it jsut isn't that useful. Basically the analogy is the drops are like roulette wheels The common drop roulette wheels spins and has maybe 10 "numbers" it can land on that say go to next wheelIn this case the uncommon drop wheel spins this has say 2 "numbers" that send us to rare drops wheelThen the rare drops wheel spins. ROW increases the number of slots on the uncommon wheel that send us to the rare wheel.The flaw HOWEVER is that the common, uncommon, rare wheels are solely for universal drops with "rare" drops being simply things like the big coin piles or rune piles monsters CAN drop. Most of the drops considered rare by PLAYERS (eg gs shards, dragon items etc) belong to the Bonus Drops Wheel. This wheel ALWAYS spins alongside the common - rare wheel and has ALOT of blank spots, but also has these coveted drops like visage etc on it. This is why when you get these rare drops they are always with a normal drop eg u get visage AND a coin pile. ROW does not effect the Bonus Drops Wheel so thus has no effect on what alot of people assume it does effect.Aside from that, a N=1 does not say anything about how a ROW does or does not increase probability on a rare item. With extremely rare items, an extremely large sample size is needed to measure effects irregardless of what the exact mechanism is by which a rare drop is calculated. You'd need to try getting ~50 rare drops with and without ROW, for example. Then you'd be seeing some effects. It perfectly explains it. The drops we as players consider rare are in the "bonus drops"ROW affects the odds of you getting a rare drop from the normal drop tables.Bonus drops are unaffected, therefore ROW is of no use in getting the drops we as players class as rare. Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauke Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 ROW isn't a placebo it jsut isn't that useful. Basically the analogy is the drops are like roulette wheels The common drop roulette wheels spins and has maybe 10 "numbers" it can land on that say go to next wheelIn this case the uncommon drop wheel spins this has say 2 "numbers" that send us to rare drops wheelThen the rare drops wheel spins. ROW increases the number of slots on the uncommon wheel that send us to the rare wheel.The flaw HOWEVER is that the common, uncommon, rare wheels are solely for universal drops with "rare" drops being simply things like the big coin piles or rune piles monsters CAN drop. Most of the drops considered rare by PLAYERS (eg gs shards, dragon items etc) belong to the Bonus Drops Wheel. This wheel ALWAYS spins alongside the common - rare wheel and has ALOT of blank spots, but also has these coveted drops like visage etc on it. This is why when you get these rare drops they are always with a normal drop eg u get visage AND a coin pile. ROW does not effect the Bonus Drops Wheel so thus has no effect on what alot of people assume it does effect.Aside from that, a N=1 does not say anything about how a ROW does or does not increase probability on a rare item. With extremely rare items, an extremely large sample size is needed to measure effects irregardless of what the exact mechanism is by which a rare drop is calculated. You'd need to try getting ~50 rare drops with and without ROW, for example. Then you'd be seeing some effects. It perfectly explains it. The drops we as players consider rare are in the "bonus drops"ROW affects the odds of you getting a rare drop from the normal drop tables.Bonus drops are unaffected, therefore ROW is of no use in getting the drops we as players class as rare.But something like, lets say, a whip doesn't fall in the bonus category right? And then there's still the point that you can't compare probabilities without a decent sample size. Although it will not work on bonus items irregardless of a ROW, you can't just simply say something about probability in a situation stated in the first post. Although your post does indeed explain the mechanism, I'm saying it's more than just the mechanism. How you measure it is important as well. Twitter ||| Google+ ||| Facebook ||| LinkedIn ||| My very interesting weblog about science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Still when I hear certain people get like an average of a pair of d boots per task it makes me feel sad.I've done 6-7 tasks there and not one boot drop...I've done three tasks at abby demons now and farmed about 150 and not one whip...That's why I wanna compare with other users to hear if I'm the only unlucky kid on the block :rolleyes: 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickers Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 personally ive never used ROW for a long time you just may have been unlucky i never had a whip on task until i was level 90 slayer then i had 2 tasks of 3 whips and 1 task with 2 whipsbefore 90 i probably killed around 2k-3k with no whip just don't give up you will get good drops eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire_Wolf Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It perfectly explains it. The drops we as players consider rare are in the "bonus drops"ROW affects the odds of you getting a rare drop from the normal drop tables.Bonus drops are unaffected, therefore ROW is of no use in getting the drops we as players class as rare.As always you make great points Paw, but for some reason i experience that wearing Ring of wealth gives more common rares (Godsword shards, Dragon boots, Rune full helm, Mystic bottom, Leaf-bladed sword, Rune boots, Dragon med at KBD) on the expense of other rares (Abyssal whip, Dark bow, Bandos hilt). I know it sounds crazy, but i killed over 30,000 Dust devils without a Dragon chainbody (the amount have risen and STILL i have not received one). While a friend got not one but TWO in 2K-4K kills. I will repeat it again:Ring of wealth helps with common rares (look above for examples) So my conclusion is:Use Ring of wealth at monster that has many common rares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspeeder Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Still when I hear certain people get like an average of a pair of d boots per task it makes me feel sad.I've done 6-7 tasks there and not one boot drop...I've done three tasks at abby demons now and farmed about 150 and not one whip...That's why I wanna compare with other users to hear if I'm the only unlucky kid on the block :rolleyes:The RoW is not a placebo, it just doesn't make enough of a difference to use over other rings, especially with the inception of MA imbued rings and the ferocious ring. http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/aspeeder/Siggy_zpsewaiux2t.png 99 Strength since 6/02/10 99 Attack since 9/19/10 99 Constitution since 10/03/10 99 Defense since 3/14/11 99 Slayer since 8/30/11 99 Summoning since 9/10/11 99 Ranged since 09/18/11 99 Magic since 11/12/11 99 Prayer since 11/15/11 99 Herblore since 3/29/12 99 Firemaking since 5/15/12 99 Smithing since 10/04/12 99 Crafting since 9/16/13 99 Agility since 9/23/13 99 Dungeoneering since 1/1/14 99 Fishing since 2/4/14 99 Mining since 2/28/14 99 Farming since 6/04/14 99 Cooking since 6/11/14 99 Runecrafting since 10/10/14 9 Fletching since 11/11/14 99 Thieving since 11/14/14 99 Woodcutting since 11/20/14 99 Construction since 12/03/14 99 Divination since 2/22/15 99 Hunter since 2/23/15 99 Invention since 01/20/17 99 Archaeology since 5/14/22Quest Point Cape since 08/20/09 Maxed since 2/23/15 Fire Cape since 02/27/13 Slayer: 3 Leaf-Bladed Swords, 8 Black Masks, 2 Hexcrests, 26 Granite Mauls, 5 Focus Sights, 32 Abyssal Whips, 9 Dark Bows, 1 Whip Vine, 3 Staffs of Light, 15 Polypore Sticks Dragon: 9 Draconic Visages, 7 Shield Left Halves, 20 Dragon Boots, 40 Dragon Med Helms, 8 Dragon Platelegs, 6 Dragon Spears, 20 Dragon Daggers, 5 Dragon Plateskirts, 1 Dragon Chainbody, 63 Off-hand Dragon Throwing Axes, 19 Dragon Longswords, 27 Dragon Maces, 1 Dragon Ward Treasure Trails: Saradomin Full Helm, Ranger Boots, Rune Body (t), Saradomin Vambraces, Various God Pages Misc:1 Onyx,1 Ahrim's Hood, 1 Guthan's Chainskirt, 1 Demon Slayer Boots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 But something like, lets say, a whip doesn't fall in the bonus category right? And then there's still the point that you can't compare probabilities without a decent sample size. Although it will not work on bonus items irregardless of a ROW, you can't just simply say something about probability in a situation stated in the first post. Although your post does indeed explain the mechanism, I'm saying it's more than just the mechanism. How you measure it is important as well. Yes it does. That is why whenever u get a whip drop you get the 100% drop (ashes) a normal drop (usually a common one [coins or w/e]) AND a Whip Its a weird thing and difficult to get you're head round at first but monsters "rare" drops under the drop system and that ROW applies too are in players term all pretty rubbish junk. Eg where a monster drops varying coin piles from 4gp - 500gp, 500gp = "rare" drop. Where as all the drops that are in player terms rare, come under bonus drops and are totally separate from ROW Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptbaker08 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 But something like, lets say, a whip doesn't fall in the bonus category right? And then there's still the point that you can't compare probabilities without a decent sample size. Although it will not work on bonus items irregardless of a ROW, you can't just simply say something about probability in a situation stated in the first post. Although your post does indeed explain the mechanism, I'm saying it's more than just the mechanism. How you measure it is important as well. Yes it does. That is why whenever u get a whip drop you get the 100% drop (ashes) a normal drop (usually a common one [coins or w/e]) AND a Whip Its a weird thing and difficult to get you're head round at first but monsters "rare" drops under the drop system and that ROW applies too are in players term all pretty rubbish junk. Eg where a monster drops varying coin piles from 4gp - 500gp, 500gp = "rare" drop. Where as all the drops that are in player terms rare, come under bonus drops and are totally separate from ROWAbbys don't drop a whip with coins. They drop them with ashes and charms, also with the abby head or clue if it gets dropped. [hide=Drops]Slayer:Draconic Visage x3, Abyssal Whip x23, Dark Bow x3, Dragon Platelegs x3, Dragon Boots x40, Dragon Plateskirt x4, Shield Left Half x3, Dragon Medium Helms x10GWD:CS: Zamorakian Spear x2, Zamorak Hilt x1, Bandos Chestplate x1, Sara Sword x1DKs: Dragon Hatchet x3 Beserker Ring x1[/hide][hide=Completed Goals]Achieved April 26, 2009Achieved Sept. 15, 2009Achieved Nov. 21, 2009 Jan. 10, 2010 Achieved Mar. 5, 2010[/hide][hide=Goals][/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_moocky Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Yeah, Jagex has been lying all these years, the ROW doesn't do anything. Infact Jagex is actually run by lizard people. Who caused 9/11. And built the pyramids. quit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboi18184 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I've never gotten a whip drop with a row....only without it. Killed around 3.6k abbys all togethor and and half with row and half without. 6 whip drops and all of them were in the second half of kills were i did not use row. 5 came from just killing them while not on task and the other 1 from task [spoiler=Goals.][/url] [spoiler=99's]99 strength achieved 5/27/09.99 hitpoints achieved 9/30/09.(59,643)99 attack achieved 11/08/09. (77,453)99 defence achieved 1/31/10. (63,382)99 range achieved ( sometime ago ) [spoiler=Drops]x15 whipsx53 d bootsx3 visagesx88 g mauls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaaps1 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I have always denied claims that the RoW is "useless" and that it is a "lie". It absolutely does make a difference. But is that difference worth it? That question I must answer with a no. It is almost always better to use an MA ring, Fero Ring, etc. ~It's Super Effective! (The Zaaps Blog)~My YouTube Channel, where you get to watch me go around and make a fool out of myself and all comp capersGuides:~Yeah I wrote them once~Suggestions:~Yeah I made those once~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Guess what: first task after abby demons was Spiritual mages.I've done that task 7 times so far, never gotten d boots. I sold my ROW and after 141 kills I got a pair of d boots.I won't discuss this any further but I'm holy convinced it's better to wear a Fero/berserker for the stats then wearing row which only makes the slightest difference! 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Jay99 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Guess what: first task after abby demons was Spiritual mages.I've done that task 7 times so far, never gotten d boots. I sold my ROW and after 141 kills I got a pair of d boots.I won't discuss this any further but I'm holy convinced it's better to wear a Fero/berserker for the stats then wearing row which only makes the slightest difference!So do you believe in miracles too? I'm at 5 bootless tasks in a row without row (lame pun) so far, averaging under 1 boot/task since 83 slayer.Your conclusion is right though, other rings are better than row. Even though they only make a barely noticeable difference too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 Hmm again: abby task without ROW: My first whip, 3 rune meds, r chain & half key...Glad I sold the wealth :) 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madouge Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 You do realise they've now released information on what the ROW actually does... Click the pic if you wanna see a Ranged Slayer blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merre Posted February 6, 2010 Author Share Posted February 6, 2010 You do realise they've now released information on what the ROW actually does... I do and it has been explained in this thread too. But the chance it actually improves your drop is so small it's better to wear a ring that boosts yer cb stats imo 2016 goals: all skills +30mil xp - Completed this goal 11th December 2016 2017 goals: get at least 3 more master capes (start xp: invention done@21st Jan, mining done@2nd April & ranged 76/104mil done@June 20th) & all skills +40mil xp (done 24th August) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madouge Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 You do realise they've now released information on what the ROW actually does... I do and it has been explained in this thread too. But the chance it actually improves your drop is so small it's better to wear a ring that boosts yer cb stats imo The explanation in this thread is wrong though. Click the pic if you wanna see a Ranged Slayer blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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