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Tip.it Times 21 March 2010


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#1
Mirror
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

Enjoy the articles!
A reflection is just a distorted reality held by glass and your mind.

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#2
tortilliachp
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Thanks to jp7725 for excellent editing!

#3
1unahtreiloh
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100% agree with the First Article, and the didn't know the DYK
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#4
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Article #2 makes some very good points. When the writer of the article began on how people used to depend on other players a nostalgic feeling hit me. I remember I used to fish lobsters and sell them for the biggest profit possible with my eyes set on full Sara armour. Hah, good times. Aside from that, I think Jagex needs to encourage players to interact more with each other like it used to be back in the days where everybody had a certain task (whether it be with friends or a large clan).

#5
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I have nothing to say about article #1 that I haven't already said in the Shattered Heart thread here.

I couldn't disagree more vehemently with article #2.

It was Beowulf who killed Grendel - not Beowulf & Eye1HitU in a team effort.
It was Hercules who cleaned the Augean stables - not Hercules, Sparkles129 & FumbDuck.

I could throw out other literary examples... but the point is it's a singular hero that takes on the task & gets the glory. That's what we remember & glorify. That's what I expect from my MMO.

More quests where you have to work in pairs or trios or more would drive me to canceling my subscription.

PvP is not for me

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#6
Diomedus
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I do enjoy shattered heart, but i do hate that certain skills (for me it's runecrafting and theiving) take forever and a half to get the rocks, I am much more likely to complete it eventually if the 4 hours till you get a stone are reduced, but i will still probably work towards it.

as with the second article, I do agree that bosses shouldn't be able to be done solo. I have had a bunch of fun going with a small group of rl friends and fighting various bosses ( we also kick butt in barbarian assaut, but more on that when someone writes about that update)

I do miss the older days of runescape, where i had to barter and explore instead of just heading to the GE. but i also do have a love/hate of the ge. im really torn on which "era" i prefer



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#7
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I have nothing to say about article #1 that I haven't already said in the Shattered Heart thread here.

I couldn't disagree more vehemently with article #2.

It was Beowulf who killed Grendel - not Beowulf & Eye1HitU in a team effort.
It was Hercules who cleaned the Augean stables - not Hercules, Sparkles129 & FumbDuck.

I could throw out other literary examples... but the point is it's a singular hero that takes on the task & gets the glory. That's what we remember & glorify. That's what I expect from my MMO.

More quests where you have to work in pairs or trios or more would drive me to canceling my subscription.


It was 5000 men who beat the Persians at The Battle of Thermopylae, and they have films, numerous youtube videos and even Runescape characters that look like them.


6 Barrows brothers ventured against a God
2 Adventurers helped regian the shield of Arrav
2 Adventurers regularly pass through the Swamps East of Varrock
6 Heroes battles against Lucien (was it 6?)


I will never forget the group of TIF'ers that were the first in RS to kill the Corp beast. That half an hour of discovering it and killing it should be a quest in itself.

Runescape actually has a fair amount of content which has secondary characters or teams. We do Adventure on our own sometimes in quests, but we always have help and aid in secondary characters and people. So many things in runescape require teamwork it is hard to list them.
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#8
tortilliachp
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I couldn't disagree more vehemently with article #2.

If you dislike multiplayer gaming, I can only suggest playing a different game than one that markets itself as "The Number 1 Free Multiplayer Game". The article only considers things from an MMORPG perspective as that is what runescape has always marketed itself as, if you don't particularly like that genre, maybe the future of runescape isn't for you (?)

#9
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Both great articles, really enjoyed them, especially the one by Racheya, which essentially summarized why I enjoyed enjoy Shattered heart so much.

:thumbsup:
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Support transparency... and by extension, freedom and democracy.

#10
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So many things in runescape require teamwork it is hard to list them.

But considering the amount of players who prefer not to team up all the time, wouldn't you agree it'd be against the spirit of the game and kind of unfair for Jagex to release updates that disadvantage people who would rather not "cooperate" with others all the time?

#11
tortilliachp
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So many things in runescape require teamwork it is hard to list them.

But considering the amount of players who prefer not to team up all the time, wouldn't you agree it'd be against the spirit of the game and kind of unfair for Jagex to release updates that disadvantage people who would rather not "cooperate" with others all the time?

runescape has always marketed itself as an MMORPG. It's not like multiplayer updates would come out of the dark. The runescape line has never been similar to the Everquest line, where you effectively play a single player game in the sense that they advertise that "you can socialize with other players" rather than perform quests and in-game activities with them. Contrastingly, the runescape staff have said the community focus has been a major aspect it's been working with, especially last year they were unusually loud in their proclamations that community was the focus of the future.

#12
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Thanks to jp7725 for excellent editing!


Thanks for writing a good article.

Like AirWales said, it brought back a lot of memories of how we used to play the game. Some good, some bad. With regards to bosses, I think it's always been a matter of trying to stay ahead of the curve. There was a time when it was unheard of to solo KBD or the KQ. As better equipment continues to come out, many bosses of the past get left behind. So what happens? They are replaced with new ones like the Corp. Beast. I also think Jagex has been working hard to find new ways to incorporate everybody. Stealing Creation comes to mind as a great example.

With regards to teamwork, I do like most of your points, but I'd rather not see the single player campaigns dissolve. Sometimes I like playing in teams, sometimes I don't. I always thought the most annoying part of Hero's was locating someone to help me. Sometimes it can be a pain to find a boss team: not everyone is on at the same time, people want to play for different lengths of time, not everybody is stocked up and ready to go, nobody wants to play one of the positions, etc.. Simply because of these reasons do I agree that coop play should be the most rewarding, but I still like much of my single player game as well.
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#13
therehadtobe1
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I'll be honest the first article wasn't that interesting, I think it could of expanded a bit on the point it was making. The scond article however I agree strongly with. When I started playing rs at the back end of 2004 it was a very different game, people with high level skills (especially 99's) were hard to come by and without the GE (and with a lot less players) it was advantageous to work with friends to quickly aquire the best items (helped by free trade). Nowadays i think player to player interaction is a lot less which is quite disapointing and with people defeating bosses such as Nomad on their own highlights the issue of just doing everything alone (helped greatly by summoning.....). I think in the future if jagex took items and content such as the highest level potions and made them nontradeable on the GE but tradeable in direct player to player trades the whole dynamic of the game would be a bit more like it was before.

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#14
Neohero1972
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Hi

I think both articles were a great read as always.

Regarding the Shattered Heart article then i'm not sure i can agree with the conclusion that it is okay to just have the replica statue as a show-off-to-your-buddies-symbol.

I would really like it to give me some sort of ability - ie. when it's done it has taken me 30+ weeks and countless of hours (some of them in utterly frustration... (read: RAGE !)), so if it's only give the right brag then i wont be good enough - maybe it's because i'm too old for that (could very well be the case !)

Anyway, i have posted, in the thread dedicated to the Shattered Heart discussion, a good suggestion to what i think the final prize should be and i think it is in perfect alignment to what out unfortunate mage Dahmaroc stood for:

http://forum.tip.it/...ost__p__4168212

Just my 2c - already looking forward to the next issue of Tip.it Times :thumbsup:

#15
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Second article

I think you should remember how hard it was being a free player trying to finish Shield of Arrov... no forum access, no clanchat to ask on... I'd hardly call standing in varrok square shouting your intentions to be socializing.

#16
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Liked both articles.

2nd article -

I also remember the days when people specialized more and I do agree that the GE has killed most of this specialization.

I also agree with giving us more "boss" monsters that require teams to kill as it will encourage co-operation. However, these monsters should be new monsters NOT revamped old ones. The old ones should be left alone to give players a chance to test their solo skills. In fact IMO it would be great to add a few more challenging "boss" monsters that can only be soloed (like Nomad).

On the subject of quests. These should be single player tasks with any help being given by NPCs. The problem with multi-player quests is getting people to help you when you want. It took me 5 years to complete Legends because I could never find someone to help when I was wanting to do the quest.

#17
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Second article

I think you should remember how hard it was being a free player trying to finish Shield of Arrov... no forum access, no clanchat to ask on... I'd hardly call standing in varrok square shouting your intentions to be socializing.


I have to agree. Co-op questing is a good idea on paper, but it only really works well when the quest is first released. After a few weeks the number of people that have to finish the quest at one time peters out and then you have players desperately searching for someone who has already finished the quest and is willing to take time out to help them. When the community was much smaller it wasn't much of an issue since just about everyone knew someone, but these days it's much easier to get lost in a crowd. I personally love questing and the idea of future co-op questing is appealing, but I don't want people who dislike quests feeling like they have to do them the first day the quest is released just to be able to finish it in any kind of timely manner. While there are more options available (especially to members) to network and find people to help with a quest, in a year or two years time there won't be many people looking to do a quest at the same time and that's really, really limiting for a player. Better to stick to having NPCs help out.

More generally, co-op play is a lot of fun. I remember spending a lot of time just hanging out with friends or spending hours helping a friend complete the dragon slayer quest; I tapped everyone I knew for pizzas and tips because back then slaying Bubbles (what we used to call the dragon... Elvarg? I can't even remember, it was ages ago) at lvl 42 (give or take a few levels) was hard. Even though I had already finished the quest and probably should have been grinding out mining experience, the excitement of helping my friend do it was better than when I finished the quest myself. I think that aspect of the game has suffered. Maybe I have a very skewed perspective because the people I was closest with when I started playing have long since moved on from the game (and I've lost touch with the few stragglers still sticking around) and I haven't put much effort into making new friends and building new relationships; most of the time I play quietly with my private chat off and rarely say anything in general. But it seems like RS has become more and more about what the player achieves as an individual, usually at the cost of what a player can do for others; especially friends. We have individual goals that we strive towards, which is great; but sometimes helping others reach their goals is even more rewarding than reaching your own, you know? Of course, Runescape is also exponentially more vast and populous, it's become a big city rather than the small town it used to be. Anonymity is rampant and it's going to take something big, like a game wide event (and it's got to be good, it's got to catch the interest of a lot of different kinds of players while not just annoying them) to get people to start talking to one another again. I think having more defined roles would go a ways, but Jagex has got to pull out all the stops and find ways to encourage more people to play together across the board.
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#18
tortilliachp
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Second article

I think you should remember how hard it was being a free player trying to finish Shield of Arrov... no forum access, no clanchat to ask on... I'd hardly call standing in varrok square shouting your intentions to be socializing.


I have to agree. Co-op questing is a good idea on paper, but it only really works well when the quest is first released. After a few weeks the number of people that have to finish the quest at one time peters out and then you have players desperately searching for someone who has already finished the quest and is willing to take time out to help them. When the community was much smaller it wasn't much of an issue since just about everyone knew someone, but these days it's much easier to get lost in a crowd. I personally love questing and the idea of future co-op questing is appealing, but I don't want people who dislike quests feeling like they have to do them the first day the quest is released just to be able to finish it in any kind of timely manner. While there are more options available (especially to members) to network and find people to help with a quest, in a year or two years time there won't be many people looking to do a quest at the same time and that's really, really limiting for a player. Better to stick to having NPCs help out.


This is where imagination can be limiting: group questing worlds. We currently have one. However, it serves little to no purpose. It would be easy for jagex to force those playing multiplayer quests to play them on a questing world, just as pvp is restricted to other worlds. With 70k+ players online at any given time, i'm having a really hard time imagining weekends where you cannot find the 1-2 other people you would need to complete a quest. there are just that many players online at the same time. yes, questing would initially be a tiny bit harder, but once you find a partner, you have a partner. The quests could have so many new facets, and they would be a lot mroe rewarding to complete.

Runescape is not static. It's not like one could release a multiplayer quest identical in the build-up of today's quests by any means. Rather, they would be new, exciting and require a little bit of innovation. Wouldn't that be nice to see on the questing front? There are, after all, 214 single-player quests, and 2 multiplayer quests at this time, it is clear where there is room for variation, improvement and innovation of new game mechanics, like the "team instanced area".

#19
D. V. Devnull
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No comment on the first one... I'm 100% F2P... :(

As for the second one, I feel the author is right on. RuneScape needs more to the Multi-Player Quests than it currently has. B)

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#20
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I simply think in terms of good old days before the end of 2007 where I considered the RS glorious day. Of course, I am perfectly content with the current update that certainly make the game easier but true enough lost some of its originality in the past.

I remembered how I have to stand for long period of time to purchase the item I want, while be careful not to get scam when trading over cash for items or vice versa. The GE update surely was by itself a very successful update and did help training and other aspect of game a lot easier than they used to.

Perhaps Jagex will try to revive the old blood by reintroducing the old concept back into the game but without all those previous bot issues before. Other things worth mentioning is the number of players playing RS currently, I think the number of new players have dropped significantly compare to the past, it might something to do with the demands greatly exceed the supply (less new player gathering materials). I remember how crowded each world is when I first started RS (before the bots were out of control). Maybe the new skill will bring in fresh batch of new and older players back in the game.

I do like the idea with interactive co op quest or additional mini games. It was kind of annoying I had to do that shield of array quest with another player, but looking back, it was probably more interesting than other quest. I am mostly skiller in other aspect, and participate in a group project isn't my forte. Once in a while for a group game to relax does sound like a good idea. (Strong contrast to WOW, since you can kind of solo alot of things, but the main emphasis lie in working as a team to do raids and stuff)

Interesting enough, a lot of people that I know that used to play RS when they were younger (some started as early as grade 4 to 6) and going to high school now or preparing for university have tried RS again after been absent for long time. To my knowledge most of those players never really stick for that long anyways. I guess too many other entertainment options out there, not alot of players would want to spend long time training in RS.
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