Less tolerance for the obnoxious

[qeltar]

There was a thread a week or two ago asking for feedback on forum moderation, but I can't seem to find it. So I'm posting this here separately.

 

I posted on the feedback thread saying that in general I thought there was a bit too much moderation here. But there's one place where I think the Tip.it forum staff are *too* tolerant, and that is in dealing with immature, obnoxious posters.

 

Just this morning I personally witnessed one genius respond to a thread about Asian cooking with a notwisecrack about "flied lice", and someone in a different thread refer to another poster getting a "reacharound".

 

There's absolutely no justification for this sort of garbage. And there should be no tolerance for it, either.

 

There aren't a lot of these folks here, but they are a very visible minority. Some of them have hundreds or even thousands of posts. I've also seen regulars who deliberately troll threads and then act proud of it, and others who egg them on.

 

The people who post like this shouldn't just get their post removed and a slap on the wrist. They should get at MOST one warning, and then be turfed permanently. Doing so would improve the quality of this board dramatically.

[obfuscator]

I personally know several people who were trolls, as you say, but have cleaned up their act eventually due to repeated warnings. There has to be a standard here, with equal treatment for everyone, and people deserve second chances. This is the internet - trolls happen. Trolls are dealt with here, but at a pace similar to their offence. There's no reason to implement something like a "once chance you're gone" policy just because someone makes a wisecrack on a topic.

[Skully]

Or you could just learn to take a joke?

[Rock Hard]

ob·nox·ious   [uhb-nok-shuhs] Show IPA

adjective

1.

highly objectionable or offensive; odious

 

isn't this a subjective description?

 

i personally find queltars self righteous 'morality' and judgmental attitude towards other posters quite obnoxious

 

;)

[Danqazmlp]

I agree that sort of behaviour is not wanted around here, at least from my perspective. However, we can't be in every thread at once, and a big part of our job is made a lot easier if people would report more often. I am talking in general here, but i really think we as the moderation team need o urge people to report anything they find offensive or un-needed on the forums. This isn't to say go overboard and search the forums for anything bad, but if you see anything while browsing feel free to report it. If we get more reports for a certain post or thread, it is more likely an action will be taken as we will see users are not liking it.

 

 

The feedback poll has been removed and the results are being discussed and changes are being made accordingly.

[Rainy_Day]

I disagree completely with a 'one warning and then you are out' policy. There are worse things than users being obnoxious on these forums.

 

Users are often warned for their behaviour, but it's not possible for other users to know when someone has been warned unless they tell you. You may be discussing members who have been warned but ignore those warnings. All we can ask, as moderators, is for people to report posts which violate our rules. As Danqazmlp said, we cannot be everywhere nor read everything, so users reporting helps us out a lot, but not many people seem to report. :unsure:

 

A big thanks to everyone who does take the initiative to report as opposed to skipping the post or replying to it. :thumbup:

[qeltar]

I did report the "flied lice" comment. The other one is part of a large flame war and I didn't want to try to figure out who started it.

 

Look, it's just one man's opinion. Do with it what you will. But I think there's a pretty clear distinction between people who break a rule either out of ignorance or because they get into a discussion that gets overheated, and those who are deliberately posting racist or otherwise pointlessly inflammatory remarks.

 

The more you tolerate users trolling and acting like toddlers, the more you get of it. YMMV, but on the forums I run, a "flied lice" comment would get the person one warning, and if that sort of thing was repeated, they'd be gone. And as a consequence, I have not once had to deal with that sort of thing, because people know it won't be tolerated.

[Rainy_Day]

I did report the "flied lice" comment. The other one is part of a large flame war and I didn't want to try to figure out who started it.

Even if it is part of a big flame war, surely it makes sense to highlight the flaming to a moderator who can weed out the starter, and remove all offending posts?

Look, it's just one man's opinion. Do with it what you will. But I think there's a pretty clear distinction between people who break a rule either out of ignorance or because they get into a discussion that gets overheated, and those who are deliberately posting racist or otherwise pointlessly inflammatory remarks.

I don't think there's much difference, as people should know not to get drawn into a heated argument that ends with them flaming/insulting other people. If anyone posts racist remarks, or inflammatory remarks, they will be dealt with as deemed appropriate by the moderator.

 

The more you tolerate users trolling and acting like toddlers, the more you get of it. YMMV, but on the forums I run, a "flied lice" comment would get the person one warning, and if that sort of thing was repeated, they'd be gone. And as a consequence, I have not once had to deal with that sort of thing, because people know it won't be tolerated.

Who says we tolerate it in the first place? We deal with users as we deem necessary, and everyone has a limit. If a user continues to ignore moderator warnings, they will be removed from the community either temporarily or permanently. Though I i disagree with comparing the tip.it forum to another forum, as I'm sure the one you are referring to is one which has a considerably lower traffic level, meaning issues can be handled far easier/monitored easier. But when we have thousands of posts made daily, it makes it harder to keep track of.

[qeltar]

Even if it is part of a big flame war, surely it makes sense to highlight the flaming to a moderator who can weed out the starter, and remove all offending posts?

Okay, I reported it.

 

Who says we tolerate it in the first place? We deal with users as we deem necessary, and everyone has a limit. If a user continues to ignore moderator warnings, they will be removed from the community either temporarily or permanently. Though I i disagree with comparing the tip.it forum to another forum, as I'm sure the one you are referring to is one which has a considerably lower traffic level, meaning issues can be handled far easier/monitored easier. But when we have thousands of posts made daily, it makes it harder to keep track of.

I'm just saying that I think there is far too much of it around here, even from people who have been here for years. That can only happen if the people who do it feel that they can get away with it. And when one person does it, others then get emboldened.

 

If you disagree and think things are fine as they are, then fine; I'm not trying to upset anyone, so just lock this if you feel I am off base.

[dsavi]

The problem as I see it is that I don't want to file so many reports, as I'm not always sure what's reportable and what's not, even though I've been around for a while. I mean, I report the obvious rule breaking things- Ads, censor evasion, spam etc. (And of course mistakes like wrong forum) but I don't know exactly where moderators draw the line when it comes to these kind of posts. It would be nice to have that cleared up.

[das]

one strike and you're out? Sounds alot like scapeboard which was ran so well tip.it almost became extinct.

 

While I do believe the rules could be made less ambiguous and more clear - I feel a hard line approach like that would personally kill tip.it

[InkofDeath]

I like all of the trolls/self-righteous members in Off-Topic. It makes some great entertainment in the evening.

 

But that has always been a problem. Moderating it is a subjective art.

[tripsis]

The people who post like this shouldn't just get their post removed and a slap on the wrist.

How do you know that's all they're getting? When a post is removed, people other than the moderators, admins and the person who created the post have no way of knowing what further action was taken (if any) unless the person who made the post goes telling everyone exactly what punishment they received.

[Sentry_Wolf]

While I do believe the rules could be made less ambiguous and more clear - I feel a hard line approach like that would personally kill tip.it

 

I agree to this, even though I am not one who has got his posts removed in the past or broken any rules, but I would be nearly terrified to visit Tip.it if I had to be mega-careful on what I post (freedom of speech after-all. :P) as much as I detest trolls - I don't believe Tip.it needs to be labeled the "Troll Pesticide", while sometimes I do believe someone with a bad history should be given slightly less tolerance, we all deserve second chances - providing we are willing to take these chances when we are given the opportunity.

 

And it is right to say - we don't know what goes on in terms of 'punishment', perhaps people are permanent banned or let off Scott-free when a post is removed, I don't see how anyone could know outside a Moderator or Administrator.

[Tim]

Another thing is some user's personality might be obnoxious, so you can't exactly force them to change their opinion on EVERYTHING. With the 1 Warning-Ban, nope. I'm an Admin on a gaming forum and we keep the Call of Duty 2 Server clean as possible, although we cant be in there 100% of the time we try what we can, and only punish for certain things. certain swear words give you a warning then repeat its a timed kick, harsher /more racist the longer the kick from 60 mins to 10080 mins (1 week).... Course we Ban Hammer Hackers but that's because it's in a game not a forum but you get my picture. (I hope...)

 

Point is people change over time, we can't create an ideal world of Purity.

[Saru Inc]

Or you could just learn to take a joke?

Agreed.

 

 

ob·nox·ious   [uhb-nok-shuhs] Show IPAadjective1.highly objectionable or offensive; odious

isn't this a subjective description?i personally find queltars self righteous 'morality' and judgmental attitude towards other posters quite obnoxious;)

 

Agreed.

 

I don't troll per se, but I certainly don't make every post as super serious as you do. I don't try to flaunt my intelligence, I simply post what I feel like posting. Sure I'll never be a mod, and I may get quite obnoxious, but at least I'm not being fake.

[Laikrob]

For the record; just because you're a mod, it doesn't mean that all your posts need to be super serious. I think some of us have proven that point several times. ;)

[Skeptical]

The Forums, especially blogs, really need to have a bit more in the way of restrictions on how horrible someone's spelling/grammar can be.

 

It's simply gotten out of hand.

[Giordano]

I understand where qeltar is coming from. The people he means and to what I agree to, is not "stupid funny" ones but the ones more trollish and more blunt when it comes to their "jokes".

 

I'm not going to say anything on how Tip.It should punish them, but, I do feel these trollings have been let out of hand in some places.

[jasignhagj]

People need to lighten up, in my opinion. I agree, the moderation here is fairly lax, but that's how I prefer it.

[Atom Smash40]

(here be words)

irony comes to mind... :roll:

[GottaGetDownOnfriday]

I agree that some posters are obnoxious, but yet they add a personality to the forums. Where would all of the fun be if everyone was super serious when posting? This is a game geared towards 13-16 year old people which means not everyone will be super mature and whatnot.

[rangeor]

Well, there's being humorously immature, and then there's being obnoxious. I'm perfectly fine with the former, but the latter does bug me a lot.

 

While us regular members will never know what goes on behind the scenes with punishment, I think the fact that some obnoxious users still being obnoxious is a clear indication of that punishment not working very well.

[Danqazmlp]

Well we are trying a new stricter system in the screenshots sticky in General discussions were a lot of trolling took place. If that works then we may roll it out to other sections or threads if needed. But the big thing we need is that users report users instead of replying and making things worse. Don't expect somebody else to have reported something. If it isn't reported, there is a good chance it will not be dealt with.

[Kill_Life]

I've just removed some posts regarding the example given in the OP. Please solve your problems in private and not here.

Also, reporting a post and requesting to ban someone isn't going to work.

 

Moderators are only human. Everyone has personal feelings. Everyone moderates according to their own feelings. There are many guidelines and they are being followed. I can assure you, there are many discussions regarding certain subjects aswell to get as many opinions as possible. But you can't expect that every post you find offensive will disappear. You'd be surprised how many reports come in that are just being made because they don't like the poster and are offended extremely easy like that. It happens too often, sadly.

 

With a forum as big as this, we can never please everyone. What one thinks is offensive, another thinks is funny. Should we just remove it because some people think it's offensive? If the answer's 'yes', we can just close the forum because everyone can be offended by any post, no matter what is posted.

 

We can go communism on everyone. We can play George Orwell's '1984' and control everything said on the forum to assure absolute safety for everyone. But the forums won't be a fun place. Even this entire post would be removed.

 

Moderators are doing a pretty good job. There are many different moderators and many different views on things. Meaning there aren't many users that slip trough the mazes of the net. But yes, sometimes, it does happen. No one's perfect afterall. And there isn't anyone with the name 'no one'.