Before we start for sake of discussion I would appreciate we keep this topic P2P based.

 

 

I'm long time supporter, clan friend, and former rank of TLP - The Last Pures who are one of the "major" pure clans. As pures our primary function is PKing, so of course PK videos is a topic of interest, and among the older players like myself discussion of PKers "in our day" is also a topic-of-interest as some of us found them to be our inspiration. Of course PK videos are universal and regardless of account build people have made great videos and people have enjoyed great videos.

 

So a discussion popped up on our clan forums asking if anyone remembered Devil Chn videos, very few modern day players knew who he was and so this discussion started.

 

I request if you are to partake in this that you read the quote, it's shorter than it looks.

(Might I add my universal forum and RS name is "Kitsym".)

 

 

[hide]

suprising not alot of members remember him...

Not really Devil was around before pretty much everyone currently in TLP.

I guess so - I hadn't realised how much time had passed since he was a familiar name

What's amusing is that it's been so long for players like you and I is that "household names" like Devil are unknown to modern day players and we have no idea who the popular pkers of the day are - back in the day Hiei would have a fanboy or two talking to him wherever he went now he regularly logs on to farm without someone recognizing him at all. Perhaps PK videos as a genre though has degraded into a mixture of [cabbage] that even if there is a genuinely well-done video that it's not visible.

due to a number of reasons I imagine.. notably the economy - from what I remember not alot of people were 'rich' when I played to begin with (esp when the likes of Hiei etc were popular) and thus couldn't afford to pk and/or create a pure..

 

and is it just me or did pures back then generally not have the high stats one would expect a typical pure to have today?

Of course, with Jagex's updates over the last four-five years money making has become child's play(harharhar) and no longer is losing 400k a death that substantial. We used to value someone who fought in full adamantite because 40k was bank loot. Now 40k isn't even a blip on the screen, won't even pay off my sharks. Now it's not even that everyone is rich it's just that everyone can afford standard gear. The "rich" items are so much nowadays they aren't even PK gear. Even items like bandos, barrows, and PvP armor has become the norm.

 

Well "back in the day" PC and SW were non-existent. With the influx of people getting high stats quickly so came no honor and a loss of respect for people who trained at experiments or shadow warriors with a Dlong. Now there is even a bracket factor, whereas accounts are conditioned to be certain combat levels, while before we simply did whatever we could to keep the advantage. A large reason for this is of course the updates such as void, torso, defenders, and the like, which give people with defense a tremendous damage-dealing ability. It is more appealing to be level 68 than it is to be 86.

[/hide]

 

The discussion details the lack of familiarity among today's PKing community for the most part, and branches into other topics which are also free to be discussed. Perhaps I as someone who's current Pure/Main is nearing five and a half years old has simply lost touch with the modern day PvP community, the other side of the coin would of course be, that so many PK videos are produced it has become the norm and so many PK videos are produced poorly that a diamond is not evident among the coal, which would be my main argument. Granted people will have their favorites, but "back in the day" love for a famous PKer was universal, not just among a select group.

 

If the topic is poked at I will branch off into the degradation of the clan community and, if I can be bothered, RuneScape community, as a whole, and it's effects on those who continue to actively participate in clans or play RuneScape.

 

 

As a more active forum I would like to attempt to bring Tip.It into the discussion. I am aware of Tip.It's lack-of-PKers, standard "do whatever you want" policy(despite RC Pkers being such a controversy), and their distaste in pures, that is, as far as 2008 or so is concerned. As always, keep it civil, and, although a much more demanding request as you may not realize you aren't doing so, keep it intelligent.

 

Kitsym

Hard to see what your point is tbh, obviously as times move on the focus of pk videos is going to change. I can watch Cyal8rloser's pk vids all day long, but alot of my friends find videos that lack hybridding with atleast a 4 item switch as boring (just to clarify I mean old names and old pk vids are becoming more and more boring to the people who watch pk vids and to the people who pk). You'll be hard pressed to find someone in the pk scene who doesn't enjoy Taco limey's videos.

Hard to see what your point is tbh, obviously as times move on the focus of pk videos is going to change. I can watch Cyal8rloser's pk vids all day long, but alot of my friends find videos that lack hybridding with atleast a 4 item switch as boring (just to clarify I mean old names and old pk vids are becoming more and more boring to the people who watch pk vids and to the people who pk). You'll be hard pressed to find someone in the pk scene who doesn't enjoy Taco limey's videos.

Point is not whether or not people can still enjoy older PK vids(albeit only people who enjoy them are typically nostalgic), but about the degradation of the Player Killing community and the lack of role-models. I am under the impression you recall the days when a famous PKer went PKing they'd end up with 20-some people following them. That doesn't happen anymore.

 

There are good, known videos and PKers but there are very, very few who are universally recognized. Taco Limey, and among higher leveled clans Bwuk - that's pretty much it; there are pure clan leaders such as Mahatma but the only reason that fame remains is because he hasn't quit and Mayhem Makers continue to be a household name among pures.

 

I of course am not ruling out the possibility that I am simply out-of-sync with the modern-day PvP community but I do not find that so likely that I only know of two quality video makers while there were several respected, well-known PKers in the earlier generations.

 

Overall this isn't even about PK videos but about PKer fame, the lack of role-models and well-known PKers, and the continual degradation of the PvP community over the years.

PKing nowadays is for the most part glorified 76king. That's why no one gives a [cabbage].

Hard to see what your point is tbh, obviously as times move on the focus of pk videos is going to change. I can watch Cyal8rloser's pk vids all day long, but alot of my friends find videos that lack hybridding with atleast a 4 item switch as boring (just to clarify I mean old names and old pk vids are becoming more and more boring to the people who watch pk vids and to the people who pk). You'll be hard pressed to find someone in the pk scene who doesn't enjoy Taco limey's videos.

Point is not whether or not people can still enjoy older PK vids(albeit only people who enjoy them are typically nostalgic), but about the degradation of the Player Killing community and the lack of role-models. I am under the impression you recall the days when a famous PKer went PKing they'd end up with 20-some people following them. That doesn't happen anymore.

 

There are good, known videos and PKers but there are very, very few who are universally recognized. Taco Limey, and among higher leveled clans Bwuk - that's pretty much it; there are pure clan leaders such as Mahatma but the only reason that fame remains is because he hasn't quit and Mayhem Makers continue to be a household name among pures.

 

I of course am not ruling out the possibility that I am simply out-of-sync with the modern-day PvP community but I do not find that so likely that I only know of two quality video makers while there were several respected, well-known PKers in the earlier generations.

 

Overall this isn't even about PK videos but about PKer fame, the lack of role-models and well-known PKers, and the continual degradation of the PvP community over the years.

 

Tbh I'm glad that there's not large groups of people following 'famous' pkers anymore, I personally always found it pretty pathetic. You can still see these groupie types in taco limeys pk vids though. As for role models I don't think there was ever any real role models as such, but there were people who utilised their account in a way that made you think, "Damn I want an account like that." and there are still people today who can make people feel that way. Just the other day I was watching a pk vid of some dude with 30 defence and turmoil and I was thinking damn son I need to make one of those accounts, kid was owning. But yeah, Jagex pretty much smited the PvP community a long long time ago. Some remnants remain but it'll never be the same. Just one of those things you gotta accept and get over.

 

PKing nowadays is for the most part glorified 76king. That's why no one gives a [cabbage].

 

You clearly don't PK lol.

Tbh I'm glad that there's not large groups of people following 'famous' pkers anymore, I personally always found it pretty pathetic. You can still see these groupie types in taco limeys pk vids though. As for role models I don't think there was ever any real role models as such, but there were people who utilised their account in a way that made you think, "Damn I want an account like that." and there are still people today who can make people feel that way. Just the other day I was watching a pk vid of some dude with 30 defence and turmoil and I was thinking damn son I need to make one of those accounts, kid was owning. But yeah, Jagex pretty much smited the PvP community a long long time ago. Some remnants remain but it'll never be the same. Just one of those things you gotta accept and get over.

 

Of course, it was particularly annoying to fight someone with 15 people following them, the standing under you and spamming, etc, but I believe the ideology behind it was important to the PvP community, it gave people something to, quite literally, rally behind and support. A sense of family, almost. And I do believe that there were role models, at least among pures, inspiring people to not just create a pure, but to succeed as a pure. There are different levels of inspiration and I don't think that kind of inspiration has been peaked from a modern day PKer.

Another reason, besides the cheaper aspect, is that PK'ers these days are used to so much more than back then in terms of equipment and other items. If you're a newer player I can imagine that after watching someone PK with D bolts, VLS or AGS, the older videos of where people were simply using D scim and wait for the KO with a G Maul can seem quite boring, especially if you didn't play back then and don't know how it went down.

 

I have to admit, if I look at new trybrid PK videos I enjoy them more then old school PK videos. However, I don't watch them that often as I never really PK and aren't that interested in it.

Tbh I'm glad that there's not large groups of people following 'famous' pkers anymore, I personally always found it pretty pathetic. You can still see these groupie types in taco limeys pk vids though. As for role models I don't think there was ever any real role models as such, but there were people who utilised their account in a way that made you think, "Damn I want an account like that." and there are still people today who can make people feel that way. Just the other day I was watching a pk vid of some dude with 30 defence and turmoil and I was thinking damn son I need to make one of those accounts, kid was owning. But yeah, Jagex pretty much smited the PvP community a long long time ago. Some remnants remain but it'll never be the same. Just one of those things you gotta accept and get over.

 

Of course, it was particularly annoying to fight someone with 15 people following them, the standing under you and spamming, etc, but I believe the ideology behind it was important to the PvP community, it gave people something to, quite literally, rally behind and support. A sense of family, almost. And I do believe that there were role models, at least among pures, inspiring people to not just create a pure, but to succeed as a pure. There are different levels of inspiration and I don't think that kind of inspiration has been peaked from a modern day PKer.

 

I hate to keep mentioning Taco limey but whilst he had 45-48 def he was definately as much of a role model to the new pkers as any old pker was to the old ones.

I hate to keep mentioning Taco limey but whilst he had 45-48 def he was definately as much of a role model to the new pkers as much as any old pker was to the old ones.

Don't you think that alone demerits most of your argument alone? Doesn't that show exactly what I'm saying?

I hate to keep mentioning Taco limey but whilst he had 45-48 def he was definately as much of a role model to the new pkers as much as any old pker was to the old ones.

Don't you think that alone demerits most of your argument alone? Doesn't that show exactly what I'm saying?

 

Well I'm not into the PK scene anymore so I'm obviously not going to know a ton of names lol but Taco Limey is one of the few to actually grab my attention and even arouse my old interest in PKing. You're not going to find many people who are deep into the PK scene on tip.it. He also demerits most of your arguments regarding modern pkers not having the same role as old pkers.

I hate to keep mentioning Taco limey but whilst he had 45-48 def he was definately as much of a role model to the new pkers as much as any old pker was to the old ones.

Don't you think that alone demerits most of your argument alone? Doesn't that show exactly what I'm saying?

 

Well I'm not into the PK scene anymore so I'm obviously not going to know a ton of names lol but Taco Limey is one of the few to actually grab my attention and even arouse my old interest in PKing. You're not going to find many people who are deep into the PK scene on tip.it. He also demerits most of your arguments regarding modern pkers not having the same role as old pkers.

I'm not saying that there are absolutely no inspirational PKers today, I am saying that there are very, very few. Essentially everyone knows Taco Limey, primarily for his use of the new prayers early in their release, which is also a large unconsidered factor in his fame.

 

I'm also not too into the PK scene and am aware of Tip.It's PvP affinity as I stated in the OP, but I am very active in the pure community and have been for a long time, and the only noticeable people I know of are Taco Limey, as I said, for his early use of the new prayers, and Bwuk, primarily because he was a TLP Warlord when I joined the TLP forums nearing four years ago.

There's plenty of famous pkers who are role models out there, and as far as there not being any fanboys or anything please watch these videos

 

<- that's bonesaw's new 40 def pure

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHakwyXUX-0 <- Sparc Mac's most recent vid

 

Obviously there's Taco Limey but as he's already been mentioned so much that there's no point in posting a video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaU_M8emGM <- Bread a Wing pk vid, not his most recent but still a really good vid lol watch the first clip and he already has fanboys

 

 

There are plenty more but now I need to go to school so sorry you'll have to only deal with these 3 that took me a couple minutes to find.

I quit watching PK vids after people started over-editing their footage with programs like Sony Vegas. If you have to include extra effects, chances are your footage isn't very exciting to begin with. If I want to see cool special effects, I'll go watch Avatar 3D.

 

There's nothing new or exciting to see in any PK vids nowadays, they're all just showing off lucky hits, rather than skill. It's more fun to watch people pick fights with stronger opponents than to bully weaker ones. If I ever got around to making a PK vid, I'd only include footage of me fighting people much stronger than me, or me alone against groups of people.

 

Anyone ever heard of Howatt3431?

 

There's plenty of famous pkers who are role models out there, and as far as there not being any fanboys or anything please watch these videos

 

<- that's bonesaw's new 40 def pure

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHakwyXUX-0 <- Sparc Mac's most recent vid

 

Obviously there's Taco Limey but as he's already been mentioned so much that there's no point in posting a video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaU_M8emGM <- Bread a Wing pk vid, not his most recent but still a really good vid lol watch the first clip and he already has fanboys

 

 

There are plenty more but now I need to go to school so sorry you'll have to only deal with these 3 that took me a couple minutes to find.

 

I watched like the first minute of those vids then X'd them out >_> Too many effects or nothing new/exciting for me :\

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ho5C7p4iiM fun watching him take on dishonorable teams by himself and win

 

always enjoyed that vid-- I used to hop from world to world, looking for RC pkers to kill :D

 

got consecutive kills w/o banking-- never used item protect either, he was that confident haha

I think a lot of the problem was the upheaval and periods of discontent after it finally sunk in that old wild was gone. A lot of old names quit, and with them something died. In the craters/early pvp, people just didn't care anymore, they just wanted to pk whatever they could. And now, as things have settled, yes, there are players that people look up to, but it's not really the same.

To me, it just feels that there is no respect left, and if you go to w18 and see the flaming and rubbish fights you'll agree with me. most people these days prefer to flame and harass well known pkers instead of respecting them and looking up to them.

In fact, there's little left in PKing that interests me anymore. What else can match voltago knocking people around at the mage bank, whilst wearing full third age. Or cali ice, running from MB to edge with a santa hat on her head and AG on her back.

Or exiled - small, incredibly talented, coming out of nowhere and dominating drags. And yeah, bwuk was good, but it appears he's gone now too.

 

[...] and the continual degradation of the PvP community over the years.

 

indeed. like i said, i think it's all the unrest and people leaving over the bh crater years. when jagex removed the wild they didn't exactly consider (or didn't care) about the community they were about to destroy.

People whine about the old times too much, but I tend to agree - I miss that game so much - but it's over, it's sad, but that's life.

 

"all I have left now are my pk videos"

MB pking is pretty much impossible since jagex dosent wanna do anything to fix it. 99% pker are with packyaks and bank their items when they arent even close at dying. You can tank like 4 tbs row with yak and those who cant have lunar healers with them.

 

btw bwuk plays still not much as he used to and hes always on hes pure.

MB pking is pretty much impossible since jagex dosent wanna do anything to fix it. 99% pker are with packyaks and bank their items when they arent even close at dying. You can tank like 4 tbs row with yak and those who cant have lunar healers with them.

 

btw bwuk plays still not much as he used to and hes always on hes pure.

Yeah... especially stupid if they're filling yaks with a ton of brews and restores. I usually bring like 5 brews at most. It's also pretty annoying with the 1 itemers there that will hit you when you lever out to make you lose EP too, unless you pk non-protect. Which usually doesn't have much people come through there :\

 

Anyways, the well known pkers these days that have a lot of fans are Sparc Mac, Bonesaw Pk, and Taco Limey. Everyone else usually doesn't have too many people around them, but occasionally someone will come up to them.

 

I'm friends with Dream Rat3 who was very well known for his mauling vids in old wildy, he still occasionally gets people asking him if hes the real one lol.

 

But yeah, most pk vids get old, especially with things like claws/ags being used where it's very easy to get kills. Keeping it old school with a DDS is liked usually. Most of the time now me and my friends watch pk vids just to see how good/bad someone else is, and if it's all edge... well, that's the simplest form of pking after dds dming and stuff like that. Not hard to learn at all.

 

Do miss the old days of pk vids though and I still have tons of old vids saved.

It's just that there's not much honor left (I don't mean no honor with stuff like overheads, farcasting and stuff, but just the overall level of respect).

 

Also Jagex' 'You got a lot of money? Great, you will dominate everyone!' updates. Money should not affect how well you'll do past things such as barrows and whips.

It's just that there's not much honor left (I don't mean no honor with stuff like overheads, farcasting and stuff, but just the overall level of respect).

 

Also Jagex' 'You got a lot of money? Great, you will dominate everyone!' updates. Money should not affect how well you'll do past things such as barrows and whips.

Doesn't people still only pk with things like whip and dds in non+1s? Wouldn't you just head there instead if you feel too many people 1 iteming/AGS dming are going on in +1 bounty worlds?

 

EDIT: Sorry Re read your post and yeah. PvP = Flamefest 2010.

It's just that there's not much honor left (I don't mean no honor with stuff like overheads, farcasting and stuff, but just the overall level of respect).

 

Also Jagex' 'You got a lot of money? Great, you will dominate everyone!' updates. Money should not affect how well you'll do past things such as barrows and whips.

Doesn't people still only pk with things like whip and dds in non+1s? Wouldn't you just head there instead if you feel too many people 1 iteming/AGS dming are going on in +1 bounty worlds?

Its more like D scim and DDS outside of non+1's.

 

I agree with Bruno though. Theres no respect anymore. Everyone flames everyone. Its not the good pkers that get the fame all the time. Its the rich ones as well. Which isn't how pking should be. If you risk normally nobody will watch your video, but if you risk 100m+ theres 1,000 views.

i feel this can be said for alot of things in rs, but i payed attention to your 1st sentence.

 

look at the hits pvp has taken over the years, its swirling around the drain in my opinion. as for videos and famous pkers. we have too many maxed out players these days to find a really special pker, and even if some 1 was good enough to be "famous" look at all of the BS they have to put up with in pvp....its just plain scandalous what people will do to try to kill you.

clan pking started degrading when run-ins started lasting over 3 hours

Pking is not the same as it used to be, anyone can tell you that. Unfortunately the shift has become "money = power" and no honour conquers all. I am by no means an "Old School" pker by the standards of some of the legends we have reading these boards, but I used to pk in RSC a little bit (only played RSC for a month) and I became very into the pking scene for about 6 months during 2007 and tried out a variety of pking types. I have only ever done pking on a main account, haven't bothered making pures for pking, but I have done tons of Edgeville, Mage Bank, Mage Bank Team, EoH Luring, 35 Portals Luring, Solo Portals, Varrock Drags Team, and Clan Style Wars/Run Ins. The variety back then was astounding, and the difference between each was what made pking fun for me. If I felt like pking alone I would normally gear up in my max gear (A whopping 18.5M was the max gear back then) and head up to level 35 portal. I would take 6 sharks, and 5 brews, and that was soloing well within the danger area of dying with that, normally any pkers I saw in similar gear would either have a 5-10 man team backing them, and carrying 10 brews each (obviously not planning on actually fighting which would work to my advantage). This was my favorite type of pking, I would be able to challenge people anywhere from level 90 up to maxxed out 126 players, and they could have gear ranging from 1 iteming up to max gear like me. If I wanted to make some easy money while chilling with some lower leveled players on teamspeak I could just put together a lure party and pull in a few whip/ahrim kills without any effort. If I wanted to meet some higher leveled pkers I could tag along on a trip with AG, RR, or many other clans who I had friends in. I was also in smaller clans such as TKC if I wanted to do some clan wars (not the minigame), or 50 ports pk. There were so many different things I could do with a high certainty that I wouldn't die just based on my skill compared to other players at the time. Luck had very little to do with anything back then, I was not a "KO Machine" like many players, but rather I would just hybrid the hell out of people, and I had 15 levels of wilderness to do it for the most part. At one point I had done 3 months of solo pking at portals without dying, so that isn't just luck, especially since I was against some very worthy foes who I came to know better. We would often have battles, it wasn't out of spite or anything, we shared the area and we knew there would be conflicts, if I killed one of their players I would have no problem selling back their gear at a discounted price, and they returned the favour when my risky pking finally caught up to me. Videos were huge at the time, I would often sit and watch tons of videos of good friends pking hybrid style and just knowing that they were owning people, even if it looked slow paced at the time any pker back then can tell you it wasnt at all. I released just one video, and it won several awards on several sites (Although I didn't edit it at all and I wasn't planning on posting it for the public). You get people posting videos every week now though, and using very little skill (I am not saying that no pkers have skill anyone, but luck is 90% of the battle now). I am kind of going off on a tangent here so ill jump down to a new paragraph to finish this off.

 

Basically the main problems with where pking and videos have gone (In my opinion) is the luck factor, and the cost. When I had quit pking, it was just starting to become rediculous hits, but before that if you saw a 30-30 dds spec it was very impressive, and for the most part when you killed someone they had no food left, they either stayed to fight it out, or couldnt handle the barrage of hits and died trying to run to safety. When godswords came out I remember several people 1 iteming with just a godsword, running up and trying to 2 spec people without having to use any skill at all. A few times I had almost been koed by level 110's wearing only a godsword, this is when I quit. Nowadays we have countless ways to ko someone in under 3 seconds, and it requires no skill (don't tell me that switching a few items one time fast is skill). Due to this fear you have made people stock up on brews, and basically be fighting just purely to ko, otherwise they run. Hit and runs are seen throughout the wilderness non-stop now, you can no longer dominate an area or attempt to take on a team solo because you just don't have that much luck, it has to run out. Videos are all become about the account now, not the skill or ability of the person controlling that account. Wealth shouldn't affect the quality of your videos, if you take Jangofett12 for an example, a very good friend of mine. He would often go out in gear that would seem welfare, wearing only a whip, random event clothing, dds and tbs/barrage hidden in his inventory, and he could dominate many players who would be in "normal" pk gear or better. But now if you don't have a 100M outfit you are either not worth anyones time to fight, or you don't stand a chance in a fight because the other players will just run as soon as you hit decently on them. I know thousands of players would flock to a server that basically ran a 2006 version of the game, purely for the pking aspect, but runescape can never go back so we are stuck with what we have. That was one of the most fun times in my gaming history, was when I pked for 6 months, but it is gone now so we can't do anything about it.

That was one of the most fun times in my gaming history, was when I pked for 6 months, but it is gone now so we can't do anything about it.

 

:cry:

That was one of the most fun times in my gaming history, was when I pked for 6 months, but it is gone now so we can't do anything about it.

 

:cry:

 

I still maintain to this day the best game I've ever played was runescape 2005-2007. And that applies to all aspects of the game really - although that's another discussion - it's sad that jagex won't really acknowledge the past.

Anyone ever heard of Howatt3431?

 

AKA Chuckles? The god spell pker who would go to green drags? I loved his vids