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A question about Prayer


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19 replies to this topic

#1
anScooter
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Recently, a friend of mine and myself were having an argument about the effects of protection prayers. Here is the story:

He was pking in a Bounty Hunter world and was apparently risking quite a bit (by my standards, over 70m). He was fighting someone who was using full void, a rune bow, and dragon bolts. He was KO'ed by a hit near 600 (not sure of the exact hit), despite the fact that he was using the Protect from Missiles prayer. Now when I first heard this story, my reaction was to tell him that the Protect from Prayers don't stop damage from hitting you, it only reduces the chance of the attack actually hitting, exactly like defense. He argues that it in fact does lower the damage you take from hits, and that this in fact was a "glitch" in the game, because with his Prayer, the player would have had to hit approximately 840 (600 X .4 = 240, 240 + 600 = 840), which he and I both agreed, was not possible with the gear being used. I didn't a small amount of research and came across this on Runescape.com's manual:

Why is it that my protection prayers do not always work against another player?

The protection prayers will always work against monsters. These prayers do work against other players, but it will reduce the damage you receive by 40%.


Of course this made my jaw drop. In my 5+ years of playing RS, I always thought Protect From Prayers had the same effect as defense. So I now ask you TIFers, are the Protect From Prayers absorbing our hits, or are they simply lessening the chance of us hitting?

tl'dr Do Protect From Prayers reduce our chance of hitting, or reduce our damage dealt?

#2
Ned
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I'm 100% sure they reduce damage dealt, which is why most people use them as a safety against rushers in PvP. I don't think they ever had the same effect as defense, although maybe they did way back when. :mellow:
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#3
3hitm4g3u
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They reduce damage dealt, and the guy in void obviously hit him just before he flicked on his range prayer, which made it seem like he hit a 600+ through prayer (which is impossible).
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#4
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It probably was the special effect of the bolts that caused the KO, which counts as dragonfire and wasn't affected by the prayer.
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#5
Articultural
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You can't hit 600+ with dragonstone (i) bolts through Prayer, even if the special activates. It's most likely what 3hit said about him turning on Prayer as he got attacked, as there's a slight delay.

Regarding Prayer reducing damage, it always has, why else would people not bring food to monsters where they use Protect from Melee?

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#6
Beloved
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hmm, tbh I've always thought protection prayers reduce the chance of getting hit, not reduce the amount of damage dealt (like divine/ely)
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#7
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hmm, tbh I've always thought protection prayers reduce the chance of getting hit, not reduce the amount of damage dealt (like divine/ely)

Same here, I thought Protection Prayers blocked 50% of enemy attacks (against players, 100% against monsters).
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#8
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hmm, tbh I've always thought protection prayers reduce the chance of getting hit, not reduce the amount of damage dealt (like divine/ely)

Same here, I thought Protection Prayers blocked 50% of enemy attacks (against players, 100% against monsters).


Yeah, I could've sworn in the past they blocked 60% of all PvP hits.

#9
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I remember it was alwasy 50% where the hell did 40 come from?

#10
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I was quite sure protection prayers blocked 100% of monster hits, and 60% on pvp hits. It is damage reduction as said, and also as mentioned he likely flashed on his prayer just after the attack began, making it seem like he was protecting when the bolt hit him.


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#11
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It's never actually been 50% even if that's been stated by jagex, and always been around 40%. Also the effect has always been like that of divine/ely in which the damage is reduced accordingly but accuracy remaining the same.

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#12
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I always thought protection prayers reduced the chance of getting hit as well im pretty sure that's how it used to be at least
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#13
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hmm, tbh I've always thought protection prayers reduce the chance of getting hit, not reduce the amount of damage dealt (like divine/ely)

Same here, I thought Protection Prayers blocked 50% of enemy attacks (against players, 100% against monsters).


Yeah, I could've sworn in the past they blocked 60% of all PvP hits.


It used to be the Ancient Curse Kbase page said 60% reduction of hits. This was a typo, but many people assumed it was 60% because of that typo. It is now correctly stated in the Kbase as 40%.

Its a common mis-conception that deflect/protection prayers help against accuracy. They do not help in accuracy at all, only the defensive boosting prayers do this. I also thought accuracy was reduced until ancient curses came around and I took a better look at how the prayers worked. I thought ancient curses would block more accuracy than normal prayers (when the typo was 60%) only to find they do not offer protection against accuracy at all.

Think of it this way:
Protect from Melee blocks 100% of all monster melee damage and 40% of all player melee damage.
Protect from Magic blocks 100% of all monster magical damage and 40% of all player magical damage.
Protect from Missiles blocks 100% of all monster ranged damage and 40% of all player ranged damage.

#14
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The maths is actually:
Final damage = Pre-prayer damage x 0.6
so, Pre-prayer damage = Final damage / 0.6

In this case, 1000. Which is impossible.

#15
Gailnico321
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You can, in fact, hit over a 60 in range void with a dragonfire bolt special. The only way to negate the effects of these bolts are by the use of an antifire potion or an anti-dragonfire shield.^^

Protection prayers protect from 100% of monster's hits unless stated otherwise, and it blocks 40% of hit in pvp unless using verac's armour or something.

#16
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM5iMulHizk&feature=related

Hits 69 (690) with dragonstone bolts (e) special.

Because the special is dragonfire based, it has nothing to do with range. Even if the target was praying range, the dragonfire will completely ignore it and can may hit 600+, as proven by the video.
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#17
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I've hit in the 70's with my AGS through melee protect before, and I've never heard anything about protect/deflect prayer REDUCING damage, just the chance to hit. Until I see proof, aka, hundreds of hits tested, no max above 60% of what the hit would have been, or a direct statement from JaGex, then I refuse to believe that it reduces damage.

#18
xSxqPowerx
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I've hit in the 70's with my AGS through melee protect before, and I've never heard anything about protect/deflect prayer REDUCING damage, just the chance to hit. Until I see proof, aka, hundreds of hits tested, no max above 60% of what the hit would have been, or a direct statement from JaGex, then I refuse to believe that it reduces damage.

You have not hit 70 through melee prayer. Not possible. It DOES reduce damage. Whoever you were fighting switched to melee prayer too slowly.

#19
noble_aloof
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don't mean to contradict but i always thought it was 45% in pvp -.-
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#20
BeNiceOk
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I've hit in the 70's with my AGS through melee protect before, and I've never heard anything about protect/deflect prayer REDUCING damage, just the chance to hit. Until I see proof, aka, hundreds of hits tested, no max above 60% of what the hit would have been, or a direct statement from JaGex, then I refuse to believe that it reduces damage.


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While the kbase has been wrong on some things in the past, the fact both the ancient curses page and normal prayers page says its damage reduction basically proves it is. Also the fact the curses page was wrong (and displayed 60% damage reduction) which was later changed to 40%. If it was accuracy and not damage reduction that also would have been fixed when the page was changed.

FYI: You CAN hit through melee prayer with a normal hit under some circumstances. Just because your opponents melee protection is up on your screen does not actually mean it is activated. I have seen many instances where 70+ hits are made though prayer even though the icon was up, because the attack was produced by the server before the other persons client sent the information to to server to activate melee prayer.

If two players are in combat and both special and activate prayer at the same time, the prayer icon will show up before or while the weapon special is activating, however the player with the highest ping will have the combat effect happen first. If the attacker has the higher ping, he/she can hit a 70 "through melee prayer", while if the defender has the higher ping the prayer will activate as normal and block 40% of the hit.

The above scenario happens a lot more often than you think, but most times you don't even realize it is happening because many of the hits produced could be below that 40% mark. So you cant really tell if prayer reduced the hit or not.




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