Pastor who wants to burn the Qu'ran.

[Zilla]

http://news.yahoo.co...s/quran_burning

 

 

GAINESVILLE, Fla. The government turned up the pressure Tuesday on the head of a small Florida church who plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, warning him that doing so could endanger U.S. troops and Americans everywhere.

 

But the Rev. Terry Jones insisted he would go ahead with his plans, despite criticism from the top U.S. general in Afghanistan, the White House and the State Department, as well as a host of religious leaders.

 

Jones, who is known for posting signs proclaiming that Islam is the devil's religion, says the Constitution gives him the right to publicly set fire to the book that Muslims consider the word of God.

 

Gen. David Petraeus warned Tuesday in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan and around the world to inflame public opinion and incite violence." It was a rare example of a military commander taking a position on a domestic political matter.

 

Jones responded that he is also concerned but is "wondering, 'When do we stop?'" He refused to cancel the protest set for Saturday at his Dove World Outreach Center, a church that espouses an anti-Islam philosophy.

 

"How much do we back down? How many times do we back down?" Jones told the AP. "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's to time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

 

Still, Jones said he will pray about his decision.

 

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the administration hoped Americans would stand up and condemn the church's plan.

 

"We think that these are provocative acts," Crowley said. "We would like to see more Americans stand up and say that this is inconsistent with our American values; in fact, these actions themselves are un-American."

 

Meeting Tuesday with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the U.S., Attorney General Eric Holder called the planned burning both idiotic and dangerous, according to a Justice Department official. The official requested anonymity because the meeting was private.

 

Crowley said Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton may address the controversy at a dinner Tuesday evening in observance of Iftar, the breaking of the daily fast during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

 

At the White House , spokesman Robert Gibbs echoed the concerns raised by Petraeus. "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration," Gibbs told reporters.

 

Jones said he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip.

 

The 58-year-old minister said the death threats started not long after he proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day." Supporters have been mailing copies of the Islamic holy text to his church to be incinerated in a bonfire.

 

Jones, who has about 50 followers, gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his small church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." But his Quran-burning scheme attracted wider attention. It drew rebukes from Muslim nations and an avalanche of media interview requests just as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

 

The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

 

"It's hard for people to believe, but we actually feel this is a message that we have been called to bring forth," he said last week. "And because of that, we do not feel like we can back down."

 

Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect, along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the Quran is deeply offensive.

 

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. The church follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

 

At first glance, the church looks like a warehouse rather than a place of worship. A stone facade and a large lighted cross adorn the front of the beige steel building, which stands on 20 acres in Gainesville's leafy northern suburbs. Jones and his wife, Sylvia, live on the property and also use part of it to store furniture that they sell on eBay.

 

A broad coalition of religious leaders from evangelical, Roman Catholic, Jewish and Muslim organizations met in Washington on Tuesday and condemned the plan to burn the Quran as a violation of American values.

 

"This is not the America that we all have grown to love and care about," said Rabbi Steve Gutow of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs. "We have to stand up for our Muslim brothers and sisters and say, "This is not OK.'"

 

FBI agents have visited with Jones to discuss concern for his safety. Multiple Facebook pages with thousands of members have popped up hailing him as a hero or blasting him as a dangerous pariah.

 

The world's leading Sunni Muslim institution of learning, Al-Azhar University in Egypt, accused the church of stirring up hate and discrimination, and called on other American churches speak out against it.

 

Last month, Indonesian Muslims demonstrated outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, threatening violence if Jones goes through with it.

 

In this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus, the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache is mostly seen as a fringe character who doesn't deserve special attention.

 

At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in Gainesville have mobilized to plan inclusive events some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services to counter what Jones is doing. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Sept. 11.

 

Gainesville's new mayor, Craig Lowe, who during his campaign became the target of a Jones-led protest because he is openly gay, has declared Sept. 11 Interfaith Solidarity Day in the city.

 

Jones dismisses the response of the other churches as "cowardly." He said even if they think burning Qurans is extreme, Christian ministers should be standing with him in denouncing the principles of Islam.

 

All the attention has caused other problems for Jones, too. He believes it's the reason his mortgage lender has demanded full payment of the $140,000 still owed on the church property. He's seeking donations to cover it, but recently listed the property for sale with plans to eventually move the church away from Gainesville.

 

The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit for Sept. 11, but he said lawyers have told him his right to burn Qurans is protected by the First Amendment, with or without the city's permission.

 

The same would hold true, he said, if Muslims wanted to burn Bibles in the front yard of a mosque.

 

"Of course, I would not like it," Jones said. But "I definitely would not threaten to kill them, as we have been threatened."

 

 

 

 

 

It bothers me a lot and especially as it is less then 50 miles away from where I live. Seriously bothers me how people are this messed up believing it is a good way to "fight" back.

[Danqazmlp]

His reasons for doing so are idiotic and very narrow-minded. However, it does highlight backwards racism in the media.

[Giordano]

Good, burn all the books you want.

 

Don't burn people though.

[Unhesitating]

I hope he realize that not every Muslim is a horrible person. That just tells me how much he actually knows about their religion. Also, in my mind, the Quran is one of their SACRED symbols. He may have the right to do it, but I don't think burning a sacred symbol of someones religion is the right way to go about what he's trying to do.

[fakeitormakeit2]

I don't understand why he would want to burn Qu'rans. It will just get more media attention and make more people more tolerant as people react to extremes with extremes [in my opinion]. I find his reasoning that it is a message to radical Islam very off as not only radical Muslims [obivously] use the Qu'ran, and such sweeping statements are what cause East-West misunderstandings. I'm sure he would find do more then "not like it" if there was a burn the Bible day to protest the WBC.

[Sir_Squab]

Good, burn all the books you want.

 

Don't burn people though.

 

Bahahaha! Famous last words....

 

Here's a quote from someone. In Germany.

 

"Those who begin with burning books end with burning people." ~ Heinrich Heine.

 

Rather then going on a 3 paragraph rant on this guys' stupidity, I'd just like to throw in 2 comments:

 

One: "CHRISTIAN" crusades in the Medieval ages. (There is a reason I used quotation marks.) Not to mention the different states of science, wisdom and culture between Christian societies and Muslim societies at that time.

 

Two: I highly doubt that moronic bigot has actually read the Quran. Despite what he might think, it's not actually an extremist manifesto. If I did anything about this, I'd buy a Quran and read it on that day.

[paul191600]

Another first ammendment issue. Also, how come some spell it Karan and others Qu'ran?

[Sir_Squab]

Because people randomly chose how to spell it based on how it sounds - the actual, original spelling for the book uses some sort of Arabic text.

[Giordano]

Good, burn all the books you want.

 

Don't burn people though.

 

Bahahaha! Famous last words....

 

Here's a quote from someone. In Germany.

 

"Those who begin with burning books end with burning people." ~ Heinrich Heine.

 

Well I'm sorry Mr. Heine, but if burning bad books means we will burn bad people, then I am all for it.

 

Though the people we will burn will not be for the same reason as the book though.

 

And much fewer in number.

[Alg]

Why the hell are we giving that idiot attention? It's like a little kid screaming to hear his own voice.

Better to ignore him so that his hateful message is left unheard.

[paul191600]

Why the hell are we giving that idiot attention? It's like a little kid screaming to hear his own voice.

Better to ignore him so that his hateful message is left unheard.

Blame the media. They are the ones who made this a full-blown story.

[Alg]

Why the hell are we giving that idiot attention? It's like a little kid screaming to hear his own voice.

Better to ignore him so that his hateful message is left unheard.

Blame the media. They are the ones who made this a full-blown story.

We have a thread here for just this guy when it would fit in the 9/11 thread that also exists :razz:

[Dizzle229]

He has every legal right to do this, but that doesn't mean he should. The media attention just makes it 10 times worse.

[sees_all1]

May 22, 2009 -

Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html

Funny, I don't remember any outrage over this. United States military burning bibles...

 

America is living a dangerous double standard right now - we'll bend over backwards for any religion other than Judaism or Christianity. I wish people would realize that extremists will hate America no matter what, and use any excuse to incite violence.

Anyhow, if he does burn the Qu'ran, I wonder how long it'll be before he's killed. Anyone want to bet? I'm thinking within the year he'll be killed, which by the way would be an act of terrorism (it won't be called that though).

 

 

Kind of reminds me of South Park... and how Comedy Central has no 'nads.

Also reminds me of:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151048

[fakeitormakeit2]

Also, how come some spell it Karan and others Qu'ran?

Transliteration is very difficult in being exact, especially since the first letter of the word Qu'ran in Arabic is a qaf which is a glottal stopped q or normally just omitted in casual conversation [no english equivilant], modified by a damma which gives it a oo sound [but there is no vowel], followed by a ra and then a nun [self-explanatory letters]. Using an apostrophe is more aware of the stop but to be quite honest its entirely useless because it doesn't explain much. Anyhow I would say Koran is preferred by those unfamiliar with the Arabic language because in transliteration values k is a kaf, and an o would be the letter waw which would make a long u sound.

[das]

 

America is living a dangerous double standard right now - we'll bend over backwards for any religion other than Judaism or Christianity. I wish people would realize that extremists will hate America no matter what, and use any excuse to incite violence.

Anyhow, if he does burn the Qu'ran, I wonder how long it'll be before he's killed. Anyone want to bet? I'm thinking within the year he'll be killed, which by the way would be an act of terrorism (it won't be called that though).

 

I agree about that double standard.

 

If it wasn't a morbid bet with a mans life involved, i'd make a wager, but i'd say he will have multiple death threats regardless of what happens for years.

[mcneilp]

May 22, 2009 -

Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html

Funny, I don't remember any outrage over this. United States military burning bibles...

 

America is living a dangerous double standard right now - we'll bend over backwards for any religion other than Judaism or Christianity. I wish people would realize that extremists will hate America no matter what, and use any excuse to incite violence.

Anyhow, if he does burn the Qu'ran, I wonder how long it'll be before he's killed. Anyone want to bet? I'm thinking within the year he'll be killed, which by the way would be an act of terrorism (it won't be called that though).

 

 

Kind of reminds me of South Park... and how Comedy Central has no 'nads.

Also reminds me of:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151048

Yeah, I agree as well about the double standards. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Zygimantas]

May 22, 2009 -

Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html

Funny, I don't remember any outrage over this. United States military burning bibles...

 

America is living a dangerous double standard right now - we'll bend over backwards for any religion other than Judaism or Christianity. I wish people would realize that extremists will hate America no matter what, and use any excuse to incite violence.

Anyhow, if he does burn the Qu'ran, I wonder how long it'll be before he's killed. Anyone want to bet? I'm thinking within the year he'll be killed, which by the way would be an act of terrorism (it won't be called that though).

 

 

Kind of reminds me of South Park... and how Comedy Central has no 'nads.

Also reminds me of:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151048

I say he has about 1 month to live after the book burning. You know, this might just be his in-direct way of committing suicide.....

[Riku3220]

So how would this guy and his supporters react if someone went around burning Bibles on Christmas or Easter and claiming to "get back" at the WBC or something?

[mario_sunny]

Okay over the course of the past couple days I've seriously considered just leaving America and moving to Germany. Once I find a loving wife, I'll fly to Germany with her and we'll have a family there. I already know 2 years of German, and am taking an online course to become fluent in it. In the past I always tossed around the idea, but now I really think it can be done.

 

In the 20 years America will be so bad there won't even be a middle class. I'm not raising kids in that world.

 

Sorry to all you patriots out there, but frankly America just plain sucks. It's extremist idiots like this guy who are going to be the downfall of this country. Any false promises of "revival" (*cough* Glenn Beck *cough*) just play on the brainwashed, mass-commercialized minds of gullible Americans. I think I've accepted the reality of the situation now: either move out of this country or grow up in a world of corrupt mass media, outsourcing, and a rapidly degrading society.

 

THANKGOD for this forum. I mean really, I just realized today while in Sociology class how grateful I am to be a member of this close-knit community we call TIF. You guys honestly have no idea how much tip.it and its wonderful inhabitants have changed my views on the world (and helped me develop proper grammar and spelling!). I would be nowhere without TIF.

 

 

Sorry I usually don't make contoversial posts like these. Apologizes beforehand!

[Giordano]

In the 20 years America will be so bad there won't even be a middle class. I'm not raising kids in that world.

I'm sorry, but where the [bleep] did you get this?

 

 

 

Sorry to all you patriots out there, but frankly the world just plain sucks.

Fixed. You go anywhere in this world you'll face corruption, mass media (which I don't know why pisses so many people off), and extremists. There's humans in America. They [bleep] up. Do you think other humans won't do the same?

 

Besides, your wife will have to learn German too if she even wants to. Move away from her friends and family, your family, raising her kid in a country she has no customs of, I'm surprised she wouldn't divorce you for suggesting such a stupid idea. That's if you even get proper citizenship. :roll:

 

If anybody else thinks this seriously, you are NOT the average oppressed middle class citizen.

[das]

I'm middle class and although I feel america could improve. it's quite bad everywhere else. If we have troubles in 20 years, chances are the rest of the world will as well.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Danqazmlp

[mario_sunny]

I really am not an argumentative person. Infact I try to avoid arguments whenever possible.

 

I hope you don't think less of me as a person for posting that. It's just my personal feelings.

 

And the claims I included I can probably backup with enough research, but that will take hours as I do like to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I post random facts. But right now I'm too tired, and I'd rather not get into an argument in general. I'm sorry if that bothers anyone. It's just my personality. As I said I don't usually post controversial things like that. Sorry.

[Giordano]

I really am not an argumentative person. Infact I try to avoid arguments whenever possible.

 

I hope you don't think less of me as a person for posting that. It's just my personal feelings.

 

And the claims I included I can probably backup with enough research, but that will take hours as I do like to make sure I know what I'm talking about before I post random facts. But right now I'm too tired, and I'd rather not get into an argument in general. I'm sorry if that bothers anyone. It's just my personality. As I said I don't usually post controversial things like that. Sorry.

You're too nice, man, no hard feelings. I know you're not a hard ass about these things and so I don't expect you to gotten these thoughts out of your ass. If you were somebody with more constant posts about it, anyways post the same crap, then we would have some hard feelings, but you're not that type. Plus I remember you from my RuneScape years, you were a cool guy back then you're a cool guy now.

 

I really make my posts more of a statement than a debate opener. Because I do know people who think like you but in a more extreme way, and those are who I am targeting against.

 

 

And the middle class comment was related more to the costs one would have to pay to move to another country. Moving to Mexico would cost quite a bit, but to Europe? Way out there.

[das]

I hope you don't think less of me as a person for posting that. It's just my personal feelings.

I still respect you the same bro before i read it as I did after, you have a right to your view and i probably fall under a patriot in your view, and thats cool by me.

 

Different views make these threads work