Efficiency

[Assume Nothing]

Just goes to show that people who are against crashing are against a healthy economy. :/

 

I really don't see anything drastic to the economy if the crashers hopped instead of making someone else hop.

 

If a level 3 takes up a Green Dragon Spawn at Chaos Tunnels, assuming no one else is there but you and the level 3, would you crash the level 3? The level 3's presence would actually slow the inflow of raw materials for the economy if you don't crash him, because he's killing the Green Dragon slower than anyone else that could crash him.

 

And usually, if the someone else hops and cannot find a world to obtain said raw material, they usually switch to something else.

 

And don't tell me this is unethical/immoral. Competition in a competitive game is normal, and not "bad".

 

Why would a level 3 be killing Green Dragons?

 

You're missing the point. The character is level 3 because it more easily demonstrates what I'm trying to get at. People slow at killing things would slow down the inflows of raw materials, hence less items for the Economy.

 

You're example was very exaggerated. A level 3 wouldn't be able to kill them, so obviously one would take the spawn, as the level 3 would die. They may be a little slower, however YOU can hop, letting them kill the green drags, while killing green drags in another world. You'd be bringing in loot, as well as them. The little time it takes for you to hop won't kill the economy.

 

A - It's your, not you're. It doesn't take a English degree to understand that it means you are instead of your.

 

B - It was an example. It's not the most realistic, but demonstrates the point. Player A (level 3) is slower than Player B, hence Player A taking up a spawn would slow inflow of said raw material being obtained. Your argument assumes that there is another world to hop to, which isn't always the case. To drive out the slower players with faster players, is most helpful/efficient for the Economy, as a whole.

[All_Is_Great]

I don't get you guys (stonewall, xpx, obt, etc), you guys are saying there is no right to owning a place, its fine to crash, it's called being competitive, etc.

 

BUT, why are you guys saying "oh, hey, the 120 should hop for the 138 because it's overall better for Runescape."??? The 120 has the same amount of right to be there as the 138, now obviously he's going to be outpreformed and will get pretty p/d off at the 138, can you blame him? Also, I doubt he cares what's best for the rs economy as a whole, he plays the game to have fun just like the rest of us. Why do you guys get mad at others for not hopping?

 

My point, who the hell cares what's best for runescape?! Do you honestly think killing blue dragons is more enjoyable than bossing? If so, why don't you guys go kill blue dragons and let the teams of 120s kill graardor. I bet you guys can kill blue dragons faster than most of us, and a team of 120s could take down graardor just as fast as a 138.

 

If you guys aren't being arrogant, then I don't know what is.

[SirIzenhime]

I get the idea behind a better economy...but is there really any reason to take it so seriously in a game?

[Vulxai]

A - It's your, not you're. It doesn't take a English degree to understand that it means you are instead of your.

 

B - It was an example. It's not the most realistic, but demonstrates the point. Player A (level 3) is slower than Player B, hence Player A taking up a spawn would slow inflow of said raw material being obtained. Your argument assumes that there is another world to hop to, which isn't always the case. To drive out the slower players with faster players, is most helpful to the Economy, as a whole.

 

A - I obviously have more going on than just arguing with you, so I may make a typo here and there. And it's nice you have no argument, so you attack a simple TYPO. Good job.

 

B - If you hop trying to find another world and can't, then you might need to crash, I still don't respect it. However, there are plenty of people (stonewall admitting to being one), don't hop. They feel the others should hop, even though the others were there first. That's my point, you can hop and try to find another world, if you can't find one, then so be it.

[Assume Nothing]

A - It's your, not you're. It doesn't take a English degree to understand that it means you are instead of your.

 

B - It was an example. It's not the most realistic, but demonstrates the point. Player A (level 3) is slower than Player B, hence Player A taking up a spawn would slow inflow of said raw material being obtained. Your argument assumes that there is another world to hop to, which isn't always the case. To drive out the slower players with faster players, is most helpful to the Economy, as a whole.

 

A - I obviously have more going on than just arguing with you, so I may make a typo here and there. And it's nice you have no argument, so you attack a simple TYPO. Good job.

 

B - If you hop trying to find another world and can't, then you might need to crash, I still don't respect it. However, there are plenty of people (stonewall admitting to being one), don't hop. They feel the others should hop, even though the others were there first. That's my point, you can hop and try to find another world, if you can't find one, then so be it.

 

A - It was no argument. I just found it hard to take your post seriously.

 

B - Respecting crashing, and whether crashing is efficient, is completely unrelated. Crashing is efficient if there is no available worlds. Crashing isn't so efficient if there are alot of available worlds around, and the rewards aren't worth the costs of not hopping.

 

Even if you respect me not crashing your spot, it doesn't make 'not crashing your spot' better for RuneScape's Economy in general.

[Vulxai]

A - It was no argument. I just found it hard to take your post seriously.

 

B - Respecting crashing, and whether crashing is efficient, is completely unrelated. Crashing is efficient if there is no available worlds. Crashing isn't so efficient if there are alot of available worlds around, and the rewards aren't worth the costs of not hopping.

 

Ha, you would. Oh no, a typo, it's the end of the world! I can't take his post seriously, he made a typo! You know you made a typo, right? It's spelled "a lot" not "alot". See, I can do it too. That makes it hard for me to take you seriously at all if you need to attack a typo.

 

Exactly my point. If you have tried to find other worlds, and can't, then so be it. However, those who just crash instead of attempting to find a new world are who I was targeting.

[Obtaurian]

I get the idea behind a better economy...but is there really any reason to take it so seriously in a game?

 

Personally, I'm being facetious when I say that the 120 is a jerk for not helping the 138 get kills. ;) I play for me, hence why I prefer solo to group activities (for the most part). But it is a valid point that slower players are actually more detrimental to the economy than efficient players.

 

My point, who the hell cares what's best for runescape?! Do you honestly think killing blue dragons is more enjoyable than bossing? If so, why don't you guys go kill blue dragons and let the teams of 120s kill graardor. I bet you guys can kill blue dragons faster than most of us, and a team of 120s could take down graardor just as fast as a 138.

 

It'd be much better money for the low level player to camp blue dragons than to solo two Graars every trip. Conversely, it's much better money for the maxed player to camp Graar than to camp blue dragons.

 

EDIT: Frankly, this subject was discussed to death in the other thread. Every time I see the word 'crashing' I get a sense of deja vu.

[Bladewing]

I don't get you guys (stonewall, xpx, obt, etc), you guys are saying there is no right to owning a place, its fine to crash, it's called being competitive, etc.

 

BUT, why are you guys saying "oh, hey, the 120 should hop for the 138 because it's overall better for Runescape."??? The 120 has the same amount of right to be there as the 138, now obviously he's going to be outpreformed and will get pretty p/d off at the 138, can you blame him? Also, I doubt he cares what's best for the rs economy as a whole, he plays the game to have fun just like the rest of us. Why do you guys get mad at others for not hopping?

 

My point, who the hell cares what's best for runescape?! Do you honestly think killing blue dragons is more enjoyable than bossing? If so, why don't you guys go kill blue dragons and let the teams of 120s kill graardor. I bet you guys can kill blue dragons faster than most of us, and a team of 120s could take down graardor just as fast as a 138.

 

If you guys aren't being arrogant, then I don't know what is.

because the 138 doesn't need to hop to get kills - he's successfully crashing. if the 120 wants kills he will have to hop.

 

it's not about "should", it's about what rational players must do to achieve their goals.

[lordkafei]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

[Obtaurian]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

 

If crashing a lower level player benefits both myself and economy, how do the ends not justify the means? :huh:

[jsboutin2]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

 

If crashing a lower level player benefits both myself and economy, how do the ends not justify the means? :huh:

 

Lower level players do not find it as easy as you to get out of theboss room and back in, while getting kc back.

 

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with crashing, but don'T give yourself good conscience by saying it's "good for the economy". The time you'd need to world hop is nowhere near the time to get back kc.

[Obtaurian]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

 

If crashing a lower level player benefits both myself and economy, how do the ends not justify the means? :huh:

 

Lower level players do not find it as easy as you to get out of theboss room and back in, while getting kc back.

 

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with crashing, but don'T give yourself good conscience by saying it's "good for the economy". The time you'd need to world hop is nowhere near the time to get back kc.

 

I don't feel guilty at all. No justification needed here. It would be detrimental for me to hop, so I crash. Pretty simple.

[AnneFrank]

I crashed someone at dks

 

 

i was being efficent

[stonewall337]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

Opinion.

[Cassynder]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

Opinion.

 

Fact.

[Obtaurian]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

Opinion.

 

Fact.

 

You'll have to explain that one. :rolleyes:

[AnneFrank]

I will have to object to the consequentialist viewpoints presented here. The end simply does not justify the means.

Opinion.

 

Fact.

 

You'll have to explain that one. :rolleyes:

opinion

[rangeor]

Since you guys are too stubborn to admit that the ends don't always justify the means, you have to at least admit it's very selfish.

 

1) Don't try pulling the competitiveness card you guys like to rely on, because it doesn't exist. In Runescape there are the elites, the pre-elites, and the rest of the players don't matter. The elites are the level 137's and 138's with overloads, steel titans, turmoil, spirit shields, chaotic weapons, and everything that allows them to be perfect in every way. The pre-elites tend to be levels in the 120-130's with decent gear, maybe extremes, maybe a chaotic weapon, and overall great stats. However they aren't good enough to beat the elites, which are clogging the PVM culture. The pre-elites will almost never have any chance against the elites (unless they travel in packs), and thus there is no real 'competition'. It is simply the elites bullying their way into the scene and dominating. The only chance the pre-elites have is resorting to lower-leveled money making methods since all of the premier sources of income are taken by the elites, slowly working their way up to elite status themselves. The fact that more and more pre-elites become elites each week only worsens the problem.

 

2) You aren't helping the economy. No one gives a [bleep] about it at such a small scale.

[stonewall337]

Since you guys are too stubborn to admit that the ends don't always justify the means, you have to at least admit it's very selfish.

 

1) Don't try pulling the competitiveness card you guys like to rely on, because it doesn't exist. In Runescape there are the elites, the pre-elites, and the rest of the players don't matter. The elites are the level 137's and 138's with overloads, steel titans, turmoil, spirit shields, chaotic weapons, and everything that allows them to be perfect in every way. The pre-elites tend to be levels in the 120-130's with decent gear, maybe extremes, maybe a chaotic weapon, and overall great stats. However they aren't good enough to beat the elites, which are clogging the PVM culture. The pre-elites will almost never have any chance against the elites (unless they travel in packs), and thus there is no real 'competition'. It is simply the elites bullying their way into the scene and dominating. The only chance the pre-elites have is resorting to lower-leveled money making methods since all of the premier sources of income are taken by the elites, slowly working their way up to elite status themselves. The fact that more and more pre-elites become elites each week only worsens the problem.

 

2) You aren't helping the economy. No one gives a [bleep] about it at such a small scale.

 

 

I still havn't hear why I should care about the others, its a COMPETITIVE GAME

[Obtaurian]

Since you guys are too stubborn to admit that the ends don't always justify the means, you have to at least admit it's very selfish.

 

1) Don't try pulling the competitiveness card you guys like to rely on, because it doesn't exist. In Runescape there are the elites, the pre-elites, and the rest of the players don't matter. The elites are the level 137's and 138's with overloads, steel titans, turmoil, spirit shields, chaotic weapons, and everything that allows them to be perfect in every way. The pre-elites tend to be levels in the 120-130's with decent gear, maybe extremes, maybe a chaotic weapon, and overall great stats. However they aren't good enough to beat the elites, which are clogging the PVM culture. The pre-elites will almost never have any chance against the elites (unless they travel in packs), and thus there is no real 'competition'. It is simply the elites bullying their way into the scene and dominating. The only chance the pre-elites have is resorting to lower-leveled money making methods since all of the premier sources of income are taken by the elites, slowly working their way up to elite status themselves. The fact that more and more pre-elites become elites each week only worsens the problem.

 

2) You aren't helping the economy. No one gives a [bleep] about it at such a small scale.

 

Cool story. Now explain to me why the pre-elites can't become elite and compete with me. I certainly didn't have trouble doing it. Hell, I still consider myself to be pre-elite at 137 and near-maxed stats.

[rangeor]

They can, and I did specify that. However the arguments you guys are addressing are all complaints from pre-elites (or less :P ).

 

How often do you see other elites complaining about it? They're the only ones you're actually competing against.

 

I still havn't hear why I should care about the others, its a COMPETITIVE GAME

 

If you still think that stealing resources from other players and disregarding anyone's well-being other than your own is irrelevant since this is a 'competitive game', then I have no argument for you.

[TheAncient]

At the end of the day, people will QQ

[All_Is_Great]

Since you guys are too stubborn to admit that the ends don't always justify the means, you have to at least admit it's very selfish.

 

1) Don't try pulling the competitiveness card you guys like to rely on, because it doesn't exist. In Runescape there are the elites, the pre-elites, and the rest of the players don't matter. The elites are the level 137's and 138's with overloads, steel titans, turmoil, spirit shields, chaotic weapons, and everything that allows them to be perfect in every way. The pre-elites tend to be levels in the 120-130's with decent gear, maybe extremes, maybe a chaotic weapon, and overall great stats. However they aren't good enough to beat the elites, which are clogging the PVM culture. The pre-elites will almost never have any chance against the elites (unless they travel in packs), and thus there is no real 'competition'. It is simply the elites bullying their way into the scene and dominating. The only chance the pre-elites have is resorting to lower-leveled money making methods since all of the premier sources of income are taken by the elites, slowly working their way up to elite status themselves. The fact that more and more pre-elites become elites each week only worsens the problem.

 

2) You aren't helping the economy. No one gives a [bleep] about it at such a small scale.

 

Cool story. Now explain to me why the pre-elites can't become elite and compete with me. I certainly didn't have trouble doing it. Hell, I still consider myself to be pre-elite at 137 and near-maxed stats.

 

Let me ask you something, on your way to becoming level 137 with the elite stats+equipment+resources, did you stop and do other stuff? Or is all you do just train at armoured zomebies/ soul wars for days on end just so you can become an elite player? I'm betting on the former. And at this time in the game, the thing to do with your friends (or without) is minigames or boss hunting. Its what the majority enjoy to do. Nothing is stopping the pre-elites from becoming elites, but it's not going to happen overnight, and as a result there are always people in the pre-elite bracket.

 

Also, nowadays, the elites have MUCH better things at their disposal, so it's much harder for a pre-elite to fight with them (doesn't mean we're going to bend over and hop for you everytime we see you). When you were a pre-elite, it was probably AGS as the hardest hitting weapon, with no extremes, no turmoil, etc. That makes it harder for someone to crash, since piety + a weapon like BGS or whip/defender was pretty common at Bandos. I also remember teams asking for 110+ combat instead of whatever it is now. What I'm trying to get at here is times have changed and elites have gotten more powerful, while pre-elites have found it harder to catch up. And leveling up takes a long time, also there are new waves of people becoming pre-elites everyday, which to you it will seem like the pre-elites just stay pre-elites.

[Bladewing]

What I'm trying to get at here is times have changed and elites have gotten more powerful, while pre-elites have found it harder to catch up. And leveling up takes a long time, also there are new waves of people becoming pre-elites everyday, which to you it will seem like the pre-elites just stay pre-elites.

i fail to see how an increase in the number of level 120s prevents level 120s from becoming 138s.

[Troacctid]

Since you guys are too stubborn to admit that the ends don't always justify the means, you have to at least admit it's very selfish.

 

1) Don't try pulling the competitiveness card you guys like to rely on, because it doesn't exist. In Runescape there are the elites, the pre-elites, and the rest of the players don't matter. The elites are the level 137's and 138's with overloads, steel titans, turmoil, spirit shields, chaotic weapons, and everything that allows them to be perfect in every way. The pre-elites tend to be levels in the 120-130's with decent gear, maybe extremes, maybe a chaotic weapon, and overall great stats. However they aren't good enough to beat the elites, which are clogging the PVM culture. The pre-elites will almost never have any chance against the elites (unless they travel in packs), and thus there is no real 'competition'. It is simply the elites bullying their way into the scene and dominating. The only chance the pre-elites have is resorting to lower-leveled money making methods since all of the premier sources of income are taken by the elites, slowly working their way up to elite status themselves. The fact that more and more pre-elites become elites each week only worsens the problem.

 

2) You aren't helping the economy. No one gives a [bleep] about it at such a small scale.

Boss rooms are public areas. If I'm killing the KBD and you walk in to do the same, you have just as much right to be there as I do, and I will respect that right and expect you to do the same for me. It doesn't matter who was there first. We're both here now, and either one of us has the right to choose whether or not to hop worlds. I will respect that right as well and expect you to do the same for me. If you don't want to hop, and I don't want to hop, then I guess we're fighting for that KBD spawn, and it's your decision as much as mine.

 

If you're going to stand there and claim that you somehow have an exclusive right to the spot, don't go calling me the selfish one.

 

And please, take it to the crashing thread if you're going to continue on this subject.